Aleister

I think I would spend 10 of those 30 points, along with dropping your Skink Priest and Skink Starseer (or 20 points and drop one unit of 12 Salamanders), for a Slann. I agree that putting their buffs on a unit of Salamanders is great, but I think you need the Slann along with Kroak for better CP generation - you want to be able to shoot twice with 2 Bastiladons and you also want to pass morale with your Salamanders. I also second the recommendation for The Burning Head, gotta fit it in there somehow.

If the Summoning component works well enough, it should help mitigate both of these things. Otherwise, you're right, and I won't be going all-in on summoning very often.

They have the Oracle Keyword, and AFAIK nothing else does.I could run more Slanns, but Troglodons are pretty decent at shooting and melee, and without them I would have no melee and little shooting, making me entirely dependent on summoning and I'm not sure I want to do that. The purpose of the list is to generate CCP and summon stuff. With infinite points, yeah Kroak would be good. But Troglodon saves me points and it's a pretty tight list - I could remove Gotrek and add in a couple of Bastiladons or something, making room for Kroak - I might do that later. I intend to use Kroak later in a list that is less focused on summoning and instead slings more spells. The thing about removing Kroak, is that I still want to have at least one Oracle. The more Slann and Oracles I can field, the more CCP I can get. I wish Skink Starpriest and Skink Starseer could generate CCP.

With summoning being changed a lot, many are calling it a nerf. Maybe it is? There were problems with the mechanic for sure, but it definitely seems like you have to really focus on Summoning now if you want it to work, now that only Slanns, Oracles, and the Astrolith Bearer contribute CCP. I am building some Oracle on Troglodon conversions, once I'm done I want to try this list, was hoping to see what you folks thought: Allegiance: Seraphon- Constellation: Dracothion's TailMortal Realm: HyshLeadersSlann Starmaster (260)- General- Command Trait: Ancient Knowledge- Artefact: Godbeast Pendant- Spell: Stellar Tempest- Ancient Knowledge Spell: Celestial ApotheosisSkink Oracle on Troglodon (260)Skink Oracle on Troglodon (260)Saurus Astrolith Bearer (140)Gotrek Gurnisson (520)- AlliesBattleline10 x Skinks (60)- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers10 x Skinks (60)- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers10 x Skinks (60)- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star BucklersBehemothsBastiladon (220)- Weapon: Solar EngineEndless Spells / Terrain / CPsBound Emerald Lifeswarm (60)Bound Purple Sun of Shyish (60)Bound Prismatic Palisade (40)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 520 / 400Wounds: 81 I went Dracothion's Tail for the Command Trait and Artefact, I don't plan on using the deep strike usually but I wouldn't have gained much from the 3" skink move that Fangs of Sotek would give me, I don't want to use the Artefact. The Fangs of Sotek Command Ability is pretty nice so I may try that route later. The obvious plan is to move up Gotrek and the Oracles, screened by Skinks, while I summon as much stuff as I can. Top summoning choices will probably be Hunting Packs and Skinks. I have healing for Gotrek or the Trogs. If I did remove Bastiladon for the Cogs, with the remaining 130 points I guess I would go for another 2x 60 Skinks. Purple Sun was chosen because even Gotrek can be swarmed by hordes, and I went with Pristmatic Palisade to block shooting (I play vs some nasty Cities of Sigmar shooting lists). I have considered getting Chronomantic Cogs in here so I can get Gotrek to battle faster - I think what I could cut is the Bastiladon, which is possible but it will leave me with no shooting that doesn't need to be summoned in.

A model riding on the Balewind Vortex can't move, so the 3d6 charge, +4 move, and Fly that you're giving him won't help much and the Troglodon's melee combat strength isn't going to come into play unless something charges it. You can still use Lords of Space and Time to sit it in the midst of your enemies, but not as great as you were hoping and he'd probably be pretty easy to surround and kill.

You weren't asking me, but for the benefit of all, I'm pretty sure I can read the Command Ability. And, yes, you're right on the passive. The Command Ability basically says that he can give a unit of Saurus within 12(18?) inches +1 to hit, not stackable on the same unit in the same turn. Also, that Old Blood has improved weapons, compared to now. 3+ save. Maybe that's been mentioned.

Absolutely, he is most interested in my Flesheater Courts army, however, so I have that decided. I almost have my mind made up at this point, thanks

Hello, I am considering starting a 2nd AOS army. I have recently got in with Flesheater Courts, but I want another army so my son and I can play at home. I am deciding between Seraphon and Sylvaneth. What about this for a starter list? I like all the Seraphon units, just trying to start from SC boxes and my favorite models (Kroak and EOTG). I will also buy 2 boxes of Skinks for summoning. I hopefully need a list that can take on my Flesheaters, but I realize FEC is pretty strong right now. As FEC I have been playing mostly Crypt Horrors and Ghouls, with one ZD or TG, I can go full Gristlegore but I tend to stay away from that so not full-on OP. Allegiance: SeraphonMortal Realm: GhurLeadersLord Kroak (450)Engine of the Gods (220)Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (240)- WarbladeSlann Starmaster (260)Battleline5 x Saurus Knights (90)- Blades20 x Saurus Warriors (200)- Spears5 x Saurus Knights (90)- Blades5 x Saurus Knights (90)- BladesBattalionsFirelance Starhost (150)Endless Spells / TerrainBalewind Vortex (40)Chronomantic Cogs (60)Total: 1890 / 2000Extra Command Points: 3Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 89

I didn't do it exactly like this guy did it, but I did start by checking out his video:

I took this to my LGS' tournament this Saturday. We only had 6 people turn out, a lot of folks that had been in the escalation league couldn't make it. I didn't partake in the league, so these were my first games total. Round 1 vs. Beasts of Chaos So we played a mission with 3 objectives along centerline, roll a D3 each round to see which one is worth 3 VP, other 2 are worth 1. My opponent had lots of 2x3 Daemon Ogres, 2x1 of the Leader Daemon Ogre guy, 2x Chimeras, and 10 of the battleline dudes that get +1 attack on the charge. I gave him first turn, and he made a dash for all the objectives, claiming them. His 10 shrimpy dudes were alone on one flank, with 10 of my ghouls on the other side. My 6 horrors came into the middle objective, against 3x Daemon Ogres and 1 of the Daemon Ogre Leader guys. My other ghouls and GKoZD took the other flank, which was the 'major' objective for the round. I summoned 2x Varghulf's on the 'major' objective flank as well. Zombie Dragon gets Spectral Host cast on him, Runs + Charges into all of my opponent's guys at the objective. Attack + Feeding Frenzy wiped all his dudes that were there. My Horrors charged into the Ogres + Ogre Leader Guy (General) in the middle, killed a few and took some damage. 2nd turn, he got his Chimaeras and charged to join his remaining Ogres. They killed some Horrors, but then on my turn the Varghulfs brought them all back and then I killed everything he had at mid except one Chimera, other than that all he had left was his 10 battleline guys that were tangoing with 10 of my ghouls still on the far flank. At this point he conceded. We were talking about how Feast Day working on every turn instead of once per Battle Round seemed pretty powerful. Round 2 vs. Fyreslayers, Vostarg lodge For this mission there were 2 objectives on the centerline, worth 2 VP each, one in each home base worth 1 / 4 VPs for yours / theirs. This match was less one-sided. He had 10 Hearthguard, 10 Vulkites, and 5 Heroes - a leader with a big key-hammer, a Runepriest, another Rune-something, and a guy with a big axe that fights again if he dies. One of the rune guys was giving everything nearby a 4++ and there was also an aura giving +1 save. Somehow there was +1 hit / +1 wound deal going on too, I don't remember. This guy chose first turn, he had +2 move on his guys and got onto center objectives. I protected my home objective with 10 ghouls, sent everything else to one objective with 10 Hearthguard and 4 of the heroes (all buy the axe guy that fights when dead). I summoned 2x Varghulfs to this area as well, I have read Hearthguard are uber and I wanted to have an advantage in the fight. I got Spectral Host onto my GKoZD again but I couldn't get a good enough Run to make it over the Hearthguard and into his heroes; at the time I wanted to save my CP for a 2nd Feeding Frenzy on my Horrors that were going to make it into combat, but I wonder now if I should have used the command trait to make the Dragon run a full 6, which possibly would have gotten me behind his Hearthguard and into his heroes. My ZD and Horrors fighting twice into his Hearthguard went pretty bad - he made a lot of saves and then his 4++ took care of almost all of the remaining damage. On his turn 2, he obliterated my ZD and killed 5/6 Horrors. I brought the Horrors all back with Muster but then he wiped them on his turn 3. His 10 Vulkites and Axe guy on the far flank went into my zone and wiped the 10 Ghouls easily. The Horror's rend 0 hurt some this game. However, in hindsight I think I should have summoned one of my Varghulf's to his back objective, which could have helped me to either win via points or get him to split his forces some; I had also forgotten the +3 attacks buff I got on my Varghulf at a clutch moment. He won, it was a close game overall and very fun. Round 3 vs. Khorne This match had 2 objectives in each of our zones, worth 1 / 4 VPs for yours / theirs. He had 2x 20 of the Berserker looking guys, 10 Reavers, a Bloodsecrator, 2 Slaughterpriests, and a Bloodthirster. Like in other games, we both had the majority of our forces opposing each other one one flank, I had 10 Ghouls on the other flank but he fully committed to one side. My opponent chose 1st turn, and used a command ability to give one of his Berserker's a movement boost + Run and Charge. This got this group Berserkers, which had been buffed to +3 save and was hitting on 2+, rerolling 1s, into combat with my Horrors and Ghouls. He couldn't get all his guys into combat but the ones that did killed 3 of my Horrors and a few of my Ghouls. On my turn, I summoned Varghulfs in and Mustered everything back. I mostly eliminated the engaged unit of Berserkers. My ZD was able to fly over and charge his BT (which ignored Rend), taking it down to 2 Wounds and my ZD going down to 3. At this point, he was made that his BT was already almost dead (although my ZD was too) and he didn't like that his Berserkers didn't destroy twice their points in models. He ended up conceding shortly after and claiming that FEC are overpowered no matter what you run, not just Gristlegore. Ok, whatever. I think he should not have advanced his Berserkers ahead of the rest of his force, and instead waited on me to charge him. For myself, I had been so scared of the BT that I committed everything to the fight, but I should have summoned one unit at his far objective, which was undefended and worth 4 VP a turn. Truthfully, I probably had a right to be scared of the BT, but he had terrible save throws unfortunately for him - he was ignoring Rend with either a Trait or a Relic (?) but couldn't make any 4+s. As a side note, regarding Horrors/Flayers - magnetizing them is easy, just don't do the arms. Put the upper torso and arms together for Horrors, same for Flayers, have the chest/lower torso and Legs together, put a magnet inside the torso at the stomach area.

So, I have done a lot of lurking and some commenting on here, but have not actually played a game of AOS yet. That's about to change, my first games will be played at a 1250 pts tourney this weekend (no worries, I love 'trial by fire' and have played 40k for a few years and I've also been reading a lot). Here's my list, I will let you know how it goes. I have 2x Varghulf Courtiers to summon, no other options, as it has taken all my spare time to build and paint this: 1200/1250 points Delusion: Feast Day LEADERS Abhorrant Archregent (200) - General - Command Trait : Dark Wizardry - Artefact : The Dermal Robe - Lore of Madness : Spectral Host Abhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Zombie Dragon (440) - Lore of Madness : Blood Feast - Mount Trait : Razor-clawed UNITS 6 x Crypt Horrors (320) 10 x Crypt Ghouls (100) 10 x Crypt Ghouls (100) ENDLESS SPELLS Chalice of Ushoran (40) For spell choice, I went with Spectral Host for my ZD and 2x Varghulfs (summoned), could also be good with Horrors sometimes - at first I was going to use Deranged Transformation but it's only good with Horrors in this list and wouldn't be useful if they are focused down. Blood Feast's range is fine because I'm nosediving the ZD into everything anyway. In lieu of ZD having an artefact, I thought Razor-Clawed might be sufficient.

Awesome, sorry about that. I haven't caught up on the FAQs, the wording in the codex made me think I should run different Leaders with differently-named Summon abilities so I could use them all in one turn. The Courtiers' resurrection abllities are more clear.

You can't use a Summon ability of any given name more than once per turn.

I think you have the models for Blisterskin if you want to run it, and it would be good. +2" movement is good for everything, not just Flayers, and you don't have to do all Flayers for your Battleline just because you can. You could do: 1 GKoTG 1GKoZD 1 Archregent Infernal Couriers 6x Flayers 3x Flayers 40x Ghouls 10x Ghouls Just a rough list. You have some aggressive fliers that you can use the Blisterskin Command Trait on if you want, and all your stuff likes +2" move especially if you also get Cogs. Have the 40x Ghouls go murder stuff and the 10x Ghouls cap objectives. Or you could do 20 and 10 for the Ghouls, reserving the last 20 to bring in with Archregent, and cap lots of objectives while just slaying with the fliers.

Well, before I knew these things, I had been debating if it was worth it to save cp by keeping my monsters near the Throne turn 1, or if it was better to just go ahead and get them into the fray. Now I don't even have to debate it, at least.