Kasper
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Posts posted by Kasper
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6 minutes ago, Kramer said:
Only in the way you approach the hobby. Not everybody only takes units based on being the optimum choice.
don’t make the mistake of thinking your way is the only way.i’d play brutes over Ard boys for example while I know Ard boys are better at pretty much everything for their points and fulfill the same role. Doesn’t make brutes useless. Bad model design, that’s what kills warscrolls for me personally.
Brutes and Ardboyz are close to each other, but you trade damage vs utility. Both are useful. Completely different scenario and not what I was refering to at all.
I'm talking about warscrolls that have the same purpose/role but objectively worse by a long shot.
If you only care about fluff or how a model looks, that's great and all, but as I initially said, I don't see the value in it. That's obviously from a matched play perspective.
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10 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:
Cities has about 55 warscrolls to choose from, apart from Phoenix Guard, Drakespawn and Executioners, the balance is quite good.
Now when you start your list and start choosing city, general and other units, the options thin down a lot, but that's normal.
Not really. A lot of the warscrolls are flat out terrible/significantly worse than others, hence the "illusion of choice" and why in reality you're looking at significantly fewer warscrolls.
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32 minutes ago, Tezia99 said:
Just out of curiosity I spoke with a friend who TOs a lot of events in our area and while he did call it movement shenanigans he didn’t/couldn’t find anything in Core rules or FAQ’s that interrupts the logic. The core wording being during piling in. RAW states if within 3” of a model OR completed a charge move in the turn. So really holds onto the OR part of the rule since you did complete a charge in the turn. Retreating just says end outside of 3” so land 3.1 inches out and yea pile in to .1 inch
The most broken part is that it is effectively a doppelgangers cloak when you pull it off. Land outside of 3” of a Keeper of Secrets or whatever - He isnt allowed to pile in and attack unless within 3”, so you will always strike first.
As I see it, it isnt too easy to pull off and wont happen that often. Warchanter charge buff is specifically in your charge phase. It means you likely have to wipe a unit in your opponents combat phase which frees up your unit for your hero phase, meanwhile being rather close to another unit.
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I personally dont see the value in the amount of kits/warscrolls an army has. Yes, in a perfect World it would matter and give you more choices and options. As it is, it just means an illusion of choice and more pages to go through when army building. Cities doesnt have 59 proper warscrolls to pick from in reality.
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So I played my list vs Slaanesh with 1 Keeper, Archaon, Sorc on foot and daemonettes. I lost, but it was rather close, even though I screwed up my deployment and he also played Excess of Violence completely wrong - He played it like you could use a CP and fight right away, instead of waiting for his turn to pick a unit to activate with. Having both a Keeper and Archaon piling in twice before you really get to do anything is rather insane.
The game would've been different if he had used the Keeper CA correctly.
I managed to charge Archaon with 10 Ardboyz buffed with the Warboss and Warchanter. They chopped him down to 2 wounds remaining. If only a couple more could've gotten into melee with him. It's so insane when they hit on 2s, wound on 2s, reroll 1s to wound with 3 attacks and 2 damage each!
I really miss not having a Maw Krusha to shoot off into a vulnerable position. But I guess I just need to learn that Ardboyz fully buffed will almost munch anything, so should be a lot more aggressive with them. In general I think it is a mistake hanging back.
I used the Balewind on my Wurrgog which is also a waste. He already casts 2 spells, no need for a third. If I had casted it on my Weirdnob, he would've been able to puke and teleport a unit, almost securing a charge.
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40 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:
Something just occurred to me about that Wrath of the Everchosen cover. Archaon on foot?
Might be we see an option for that, as well as a 'new' model, especially since the art is almost identical to the old Games Day model from Storm of Chaos (of him on foot that is).
Considering his mount is to the right of him in the background, I think you are Reading too much into the art.
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The core rules specifically mention a retreated unit cant shoot or charge - No mention of fight or pile in.
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21 hours ago, Skumbaagh said:
I like it. My thoughts are that the Ironfist give you either more movement or fighting power instead of bringing boys back later game. And the 4+ kills it for me. On the other hand, the Ardfist is cheaper and brings your drops down and also sets a bulls eye on a warchanter which draws the attention away from the warboss and weirdnob.
IMO Megaboss is too expensive to bring just for the mighty destroyers ability since he has no other use.
In the games I have played so far there was most often turns when I needed three +1 damage units. Either for a defensive screening or when going all out attack. The extra waagh energy sold the triple warchanter. On the other hand I never tried bringing only two either...
The 4+ on Ardfist isnt ideal, but without a Maw Krusha I dont see as much value in multiple MDs tbh. It will mostly go on the pigs. On average I should get at least 1 unit back, which is gonna mess with my opponent.
It could be trash and never happen, but there will be games where I roll 2-3 4’s and it will likely win me the game right there and then.
Im not sold on the Megaboss either, but gonna give him a spin.
Its very rare I have more than 2 units in combat at a time due to lack of Smashing and Bashing or other ways of striking first. I havent tried yet where the Warchanters got shot off the table early game. The extra BW pts is certainly nice, but this list will already give me the 6++ on turn 1 which Im happy about.
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47 minutes ago, Dracan said:
With the imminent release of DoT do you guys think the 5 tzaangors varieties in the Beast of chaos book will be updated and thus superceded or work on a separate warscroll and point system?
Tzaangors were updated for DoT back when the BoC book dropped. Think its very likely it will affect BoC.
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Taking some inspiratio from Andrew and Skumbaagh, I'll be toying around with this list:
SpoilerAllegiance: Big Waaagh!
Mortal Realm: Hysh
Leaders
Orruk Megaboss (150)
- General
- Trait: Brutish Cunning
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
Wurrgog Prophet (160)
- Artefact: Mork's Boney Bitz
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Gorkamorka's War Cry
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Orruk Warboss (140)
- Great Waaagh Banner
Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
15 x Orruk Ardboys (270)
15 x Orruk Ardboys (270)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
Battalions
Ardfist (120)
Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Balewind Vortex (40)
Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 148I'm not entirely sold on Ardfist, but I think it can give some sustain in longer matches and it also messes with the opponent, since removing a unit of Ardboyz could very well result in them returning from a board edge in an ambush style, or for grabbing objectives.
6 pigs buffed by a Warchanter + Warboss with his banner aura + extra attacks CA will shred anything to pieces. Ardboyz with the same buffs will also mince most stuff.
There is a fair bit of magic in the list and with a Wurrgog on Balewind you're looking at picking off at big horde units from 30" away or fight last vs nasty units from 24".
I'm not too sold on the Megaboss on foot and if Ardfist doesn't feel good, I might trash both and go for more Ardboyz and an Ironfist batallion. I'm a bit worried that I'm spread too thin with this list but testing will show that.
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30 minutes ago, Andrew G said:
I would have to write-up a whole post about how I think you should play this type of Big Waaagh! list to give the full picture but, the short of it is you're mostly sitting the pigs in a central, protected location with your casters, footboss, and the 'ardfist warchanter so you can respond quickly to whatever 'ardboy unit they eventually are forced to plow into as you creep up the board. I'm really not playing aggressive with them until T2 or T3.
Sounds alot like how I play my list. Im using 4x10 and a Maw Krusha instead. Im looking into getting more boyz and potentially running Ardfist too. Those souped up boyz really punch above their points cost.
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40 minutes ago, Malakree said:
The Footboss is there because big waaagh! doesn't have access to mighty destroyers normally. Since only a Megaboss general, or Ironfist boss, can bring it having the cheapest one makes more sense.
In this situation I'd be very surprised if they MD was ever used on the footboss, especially since the boss is kitted out as a utility piece not a combat piece. Personally I'd be expecting the Footboss to make 5 run moves over the course of the game 😆
Makes sense, I was just worried he wouldnt really keep up with the pigs. I guess it depends on how aggressive you are with them.
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@Andrew G How much use are you getting out of the Megaboss on foot? I guess you mainly use the Brutish Cunning to have him move 8” a turn? I havent tried the foot guy myself, but could imagine the points being spent better elsewhere which would also unlock a more useful trait. Normally im a huge fan of BC, but on a more mobile hero like the Maw Krusha.
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18 hours ago, sal4m4nd3r said:
But 2019 was a poor year for the quality of their content. They put out twice as many books for Age of Sigmar as the previous year and the majority of them had basic grammatical errors, spelling errors, contradicting rules, rules that are unclear, unuseable etc.. A book cannot be considered "released" until 2 weeks AFTER waiting for a FAQ...
It is obvious they made a tradeoff of quality vs quantity in 2019 - Their goal was to release as many books as possible, which obviously meant they lacked a little polish.
Im okay with this - I would much rather have average-good quality on almost every faction, instead of only maybe one third books being released at top notch level. The last bit doesnt matter to me, and would rather see as many people as possible being able to enjoy their toys properly.
In general I dont really agree on the quality being poor - Loads of the books are AMAZING. They hit the nail on the head both fluff wise and how the armies play in many of the books. A lot of warscrolls feel great.
S2D is an example of a book that is awesome where they really captured the essence of chaos being able to corrupt and mutate terrain and the opponent as you play on the table.
The 2 week FAQ is obviously annoying, but there is no way they can playtest armies and push every warscroll/trait/batallion to the limit the same way our community does it. In general the 2 week FAQs arent really surprising. You can guess the majority of the fixes with a little bit of common sense and it is rare they mess up a warscroll of a unit.
I think you are a madman if you truly see 2019 as a failure in any way.
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You already have some viking vibes from Orruks, Beasts of Chaos (Gors in general) and especially Marauders in Chaos.
You could quite easily kitbash/convert Marauders into viking-cast and slap stormcast shoulderpads/shields etc on.
I think your odds of GW introducing an entire line like that is as close to 0 as it gets.
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9 hours ago, Skumbaagh said:
Third game was focal points versus the city's list from the first game.
I gave him first turn and he castled up and took both objectives on his side and the middle objective and one of my frontal units -2 to hit against his wall of Phoenix guard. On my turn I got bold and 2green puked and teleported a unit of 15 boys to his right side. I sent forward my frontal screen of boys 4" with the pigs iron fist move. If I wouldnt roll high enough on mad as hell i would have wanted to charge both units to strain his line. Luckily I rolled a 3 and got in enough models to capture his right objective without going into combat on that side. My frontal line I just ran up and captured the middle objective instead of going into combat. T1 I successfully cast both the horde killer on a 10+ and wrath of gork but he rolled 5+ both times so nothing happened.
Isnt that 3 spells from the Weirdnob though? From what I recall the free Green Puke is at the end of the hero phase, so after a unit has been teleported already. Been looking at ways to do teleport and give the Ardboyz mad as hell move, but doesnt seem possible beside Endless spells or giving weirdnob 2 casts and spend one on normal puke.
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7 hours ago, Andrew G said:
Almost exactly what I'm playing right now. Big Waagh w/ all IJ except for one Wurgog.
Your observations about the trade-offs are pretty much inline with my thinking as well. 2+/2+ Goregruntas w/ warchanter is one of the scariest hammer units in the game. 'Ardboyz punch way above their points cost in Big Waaagh, both offensively and defensively (most of my lists are 'ardfists which probably ties into my thoughts on their defensive prowess).
The real gamechanger that I didn't really anticipate is the inclusion of Zap Em! +2 to cast either teleport from weirdnob, the horde nuke or fights last from the Wurgogg is absolutely massive.
Yep the Zap Em! is really great too. I won a game the other day because I sacrificed D6 pts to give shaman +2, resulted in me getting a teleport spell off on the Maw Krusha - Sent it outside of 12, used his Brutish Cunning to sit outside of 3” of his unit.
What list have you been running with? I really want to include a Wurrgog and Balewind.
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I have had pretty much same experience as you @Skumbaagh
I just did a casual 3 game tournament and Big Waagh feels so good. The 6++ FNP looks weak at first, but the amount of wounds it has saved me throughout the games is crazy.
I have only ever played Ironjawz, but after my last 4 recent games as Big Waagh, Im really not looking back.
At first I didnt like the idea of fielding the Orruk Warboss in Big Waagh because it felt like an obvious loophole, but since they havent fixed it in the recent changes where they had the chance, coupled with the fact most other people I play with are using rather cheesy lists, Im gonna say ****** it. Building the guy on a warboar as I type this. 😂
Edit: In regards to Ironjawz vs Big Waagh, there has been rather few situations where I wished I had Smashing and Bashing. The army wide buffs more than makes up for it imo.-
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6 hours ago, FattBooM666 said:
So guys what do we have now for StD? What juicy shenanigans have you tried out or seen?
Really big book, can take in other units from other books to buff&synergize stuff.
For me i feel i am all about the despoilers probably nurgle.
This is what i have been thinking about for my project to build, but im open for other suggestions tips/trix, mix/swap/remove units.
Despoliers
DP - MoN
Harbringer of Decay
Chaos Sorcerer Lord - MoN (Teleport spell)
Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore - MoN (Whispers of chaos/Binding Damnation)
15 Chaos Warriors, Shield/HW - MoN
40 Marauders, Shield - MoN or 15 Chaos Warriors, Shield/HW - MoN
40 Marauders, Shield - MoN
Chaos Warshriune - MoN
No idea how good it is but its around 1810 points atm. Would love the Plague touch warband...
Things i am wondering/exited about
Nurgle
Strong for DPs, but how many and do you really need them?
Worth getting a low drop army with "Battaltion - Plagetouched Warband" If so what would synergize it?
Is it worth taking a khorne DP or Be'lakor?
Other
Chariots?
Khorne?
Are you relying on the Bloated Blessings to do your work? Because honestly I dont see a whole lot of threat in that army. There will be loads of bodies, but if you are blocked from parking those bodies on an objective, you will likely have a hard time getting to them as I see it. Wheres the hammer?
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Anyone else been toying around with Big Waagh alligiance? It honestly feels alot stronger than Ironjawz and I dont really miss Smashing and Bashing as much as I thought I would.
Im not even dabbling into the Bonesplitterz, besides a single caster to get access to their fight last spell. Everything hitting on 2’s, wounding on 2’s, with an army wide 6++ ontop is honestly so good.
I have never been a fan of the alphastrike gameplay, so I guess thats why this alligiance speaks alot more to me. It rewards a slower/tactical gameplay for sure.
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I got my first game done as Big Waaagh and it felt awesome with all those buffs! +1/1 and ++6 is sooo good.
SpoilerAllegiance: Big Waaagh!
Mortal Realm: Shyish
Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Trait: Brutish Cunning
- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet
- Mount Trait: Weird 'Un
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- Artefact: Shamanic Skullcape
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Wardokk (80)
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Gorkamorka's War Cry
Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
Units
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
Battalions
Ironfist (160)
Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 138My opponent played an S2D list consisting of Archaon, Be'lakor, Gaunt Summoner on disc, 3x 20 Marauders and some other heroes and Endless Spells. His list wasn't optimized tbh and it was his first game with the new book. It resulted in a rather one-sided game.
We played on Focal Point where he pulled ahead in turn 1 and 2 on Victory Points, since I deployed at my backline and didn't bother to challenge the middle point until the top of turn 2. 10 Ardboyz with +1/+1 and Violent Fury easily munched a whole unit of Marauders. I had deployed so my entire army was in a tight ball with a layer of Ardboyz around it. Once +1/+1 was online I moved the Ardboyz forward and started clearing the Marauders. My Maw Krusha and Pigs were ready to be sent in as wave 2. Eventually he had to respond to the buffed up Ardboyz by sending Archaon in to murder a squad of 10 Ardboyz, but my following turn meant he got charged by 6 Pigs buffed with +1/+1, Violent Fury and +1 attack from activating the Waagh. He died. It was glorious to watch 800 points crumble before 6 Pigs.
At the end of turn 3 he was pretty much tabled and with the help of a teleport spell buffed with +2 from Waagh ability (rolling a 1 is so sweet!) and +1 from artefact, I had every objective beside the middle one, and he had 5 Marauders, Be'lacor and a Gaunt Summoner on disc vs my entire army minus 15 Ardboyz and 2 Pigs. We called it here since I caught up in points and he had no chance of removing my models and he would be tabled entirely in my 4th turn.
Thoughts on Big Waagh:
It felt awesome all around and 10 Ardboyz is really a lot of muscle with hitting on 2s and wounding on 2s. They soak up a lot of damage with double 6++ FNP saves (shields + Big Waagh) and provide a reasonable threat all around. I didn't have to sacrifice my Maw Krusha or Pigs and could afford to just sit back and wait for him to respond to my Ardboyz, then get countercharged and destroyed by "wave 2".
The Wardokk didn't succeed in a single +1 casting dance, failing every turn. He managed to cast his fight-last spell once, but Archaon bounced it off with his ability. Even though bad luck got the better of the little fella, I think I'm better off replacing him and the 5 Ardboyz squad with a Wurrgog Prophet. His warscroll spell is honestly insane vs horde units and he's a double caster too.
I wasn't sure how Waagh points generation would be in actual play, but it turns out the list does it fairly easily. I get 5 passively with this list, plus D6 from the general and 4 from 'Ere we go CA. Thats 12,5 on average per turn. That's without any charges or combat with the Ardboyz/Maw Krusha.
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12 minutes ago, Galas said:
Armies like Ironjawz that are literally 3 units become boring very fast. Flesh Eaters, and others examples really need a second wave with 2-3 new units and a bunch of new heroes.
I don't have this feel at all with Ironjawz. Sure in a lot of other armies you have the illusion of choice, unless you just want fluffy army lists. But if you want to play with competitive lists, the majority of armies might as well only have 3-5 warscrolls because you wont touch the other ones.
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After Q1 2020 all armies will have their 2.0 book (you can argue some of the first “2.0 books” arent up to par) and Im hoping they will spend 2020 updating/expanding current armies
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Rogue Idol was also recently updated to work with Orruk Warclans, doubt its going away anytime soon
The game would've been different if he had used the Keeper CA correctly. 
Slaves to Darkness questions (new rules)
in Rules Questions
Posted
There are 2 conditions to piling in:
Unit Z can decide to pile in 3" and claim the objective despite no units being around, since it has made a charge move earlier in the turn.