Liquidsteel

Probably Soulrender + Thrallmaster, in Morphann.

You can't take two Command Traits is his point. If you opt for Teachings of Turscol in order to flip the tides, you cannot have Unstoppable Fury for bonus attacks in High Tide.

The Incarnate is special in that it does not die immediately, similar to say Morathi. If something wants to attack it in melee, it will get to fight back at full profile. It poses a different kind of threat that way. I think it will see play.

The Incarnate would not get the Storm's buff, as it is an ally, not an Idoneth Deepkin unit.

Cool. This looks like a great opportunity to rummage round the bits box. Leftover Zombie Dragon pieces might be perfect.

Is the base size at all obvious from the images released? 80mm or 100 mm round? The fact they've bundled it in with terrain is so annoying, so I may go out of my way to just convert something generic and be done with it.

Yes that's correct. My app still tells me one mount trait is too many 🙃

Just be wary that the Vengorian Lord is on a bigger scale than regular Vampire Lords.

For sure. I think that list would really suit a Leviadon in support, if that makes your decision on which big model to get first.

I'd pick up another Shark and another unit of Reavers to start. 2 Sharks are nice as one of them becomes a Champion (for +1 to hit that also buffs the Mount) as well as making them a more appealing option to all out attack on the shooting. Getting to 20 Reavers turns them in to a pretty decent threat from 18" and lethal at 9", as well as a scary prospect to charge thanks to Unleash Hell.

Why the Burning Head? Just cut the 20 points and give yourself a shot at the triumph. Huge impact on 6 Morrsarr.

For sure, it's just good to know the details. There's also nothing wrong with more than 1 unit of Morrsarr; yes the Ionrach action is limited to one unit, but everyone gets run/retreat and charge turn 2/4 anyway, and having two units means you can send one in early and still have the King and another unit ready to follow up the next turn. I ran a 6 and a 3 and seriously consider 6/3/3 or even 6/6.

Yeah, I actually did a further comparison with 18 Eels vs 7 Sharks, where you only have a 15 point difference, but left it out as was already enough images. Obviously something to note is that the 18 eels have 72 Wounds, compared to the Sharks 56. Nevertheless, 3 eels getting wiped to the wound still leaves 1 shark on 4 remaining and still carrying 50% output. Getting 6 Morrsarr in is tricky but not impossible, if you can get the frontage you can do 2x3 facing inwards to maintain coherency. But yes it's not ideal and this coherency stuff is such a pain. The 6 Morrsarr were probably the MVP's of my tournament, along with the King, truth be told. They took down several Stonehorns with ease and also took out 21 wounds of Boarboyz that had a 4+ Ward. Once you get them on 2s and 2s it's crazy.

In case people wondered, here's the average damage for each unit. This is assuming 6 eels vs 2 sharks, obviously there is a 60 point difference here, which means for each 2 sharks vs 6 eels you can potentially snag a unit of Aetherwings, unless sticking to 1 drop is the goal. Eels also have 8 more wounds. The shark damage includes the shooting. Anyway as you can see, the damage is quite close overall. The changes to the bites actually makes Ishlaenn still pretty good, outdamaging the Sharks on average. I definitely found in my games that the bites are the main damage source even for the Morrsarr, 18 attacks rend 1 D3 damage is really good. The Eels do more damage on average (unless Morrsarr don't charge), but the Sharks offer flexibility in that a portion of their damage happens in the shooting phase, which has a wealth of benefits of its own (can spread damage, can do it from 24" so no threat of being hit back, forces extra CP usage from the opponent). It does also mean that in order to maximise the damage, the Sharks require double the CP, which we can look at next to see how the units scale. First is +1 to hit, second will be +1 to hit and wound (assuming Lotann or the Triumph). I will only do the Wound bonus for the Shark melee damage. +1 +1/+1 Not making any massive conclusions from this, other than that Ishlaenn are still okay damage wise. I could see an argument for slamming them in to something nasty early and having them on a 3+ unrendable save, surviving, and forcing that big bad unit to spend a turn or maybe even 2 if you get lucky, whilst still potentially knocking a few wounds off each round. Bonus points if you chipped a few wounds off via shooting also, which they then can't heal off with Heroic Recovery, or something. Considering how unpopular they are, maybe they'll get knocked down 10-15 points in a future balance pass and will then become rather more attractive, maybe. As out and out screens I don't think they're worth it though, 4+ save still a bit too swingy for 195 points, which could be Reavers that can pop some shots off at range whilst sitting pretty, or Thralls + Aetherwings.

This is the list I used the week the book dropped. Super defensive then move out when ready. I don't think it needs any tweaking, though it would be nice to find some points for another unit of Thralls or even Aetherwings to screen and take initial board control. I will revisit this list for sure, though for now I'm experimenting with Eels to try and see what works best for them.

I just went 3 - 1 - 1 at a 24 player 2 day event and could easily have won the last game, lost every priority and opponent made several critical rolls and as well as a number of 11+ charges. The book is very solid. Eels are still excellent.

I believe you can block unleash hell from a different unit via forgotten nightmares. Park a unit outside 3" then charge the other unit. Even if within 6" if the parked unit is closer they can't shoot.

You could make 3 bases of Aetherwings using the various sea creatures. They are 65 points and would give you a unit to deny space ahead of your main force, and soak an initial shooting attack.

I was just using it as an example of how trying to follow the numbers exactly in order doesn't always compute, which is where this argument that Arcane Tome can't be used to take Endless Spells comes from. You actually have to take all these rules in to consideration, and then you move on to listbuilding, which is what it says right there in 1.1 - you review all of this, then you pick the battle pack, and then you pick your list. So you already have the knowledge of allegiance abilities (and therefore potential artefacts because artefacts fall under allegiance abilities) before you get started. For what it's worth, step 25.0 isn't picking units, it's just guidance. Regardless, my original point still stands - nowhere do the rules say that the list has to be legal at each step and that you can't proceed if it's not. If you end up with a list that is legal, then you are fine. If you take Arcane Tome, then you satisfy the requirement to have a Wizard and your Endless Spell pick is valid. For the record I do play at large events, here in the UK, so there's no need for the "local TO's" comment. With that said I don't want to drag this out any longer, in a faction sub-forum especially. You've made up your mind on this and that's fine, I'm just glad I was able to show that it's not a watertight case either way, and that people should stop saying that the rules expressly prohibit Endless Spells being taken via Arcane Tome when it's not the case, rather it's one interpretation.

We do have the problem of a lack of screens, however. 20 Reavers probably are going to get charged at some point, so the Void Drum makes it nice to have them still hit on 2s for Unleash Hell. That brick of Reavers with the support Vinny mentioned is getting +1 save (+2 in Low Tide), -1 to Wound, 5+ Ward and D3 back each Battleshock, if they aren't wiped. Tidecaster could also potentially make the big threat -1 to hit before it gets in. It's a lot of extra stuff though and I personally don't think the Thrallmaster+Soulrender would be worth it, unless you're going 2 x 20 Reavers with a Turtle, and you just play a super castle, but then you do lose some speed and board presence that bringing 2 x Allopexes instead of the second unit would provide, and that 230 points could be better spent elswhere, e.g. a Tidecaster and some Aetherwings.

You've basically confirmed that 27.2.1 works retroactively, which was my point. As per the Core Rules, you don't gain Battle Traits until 27.1 which is after youve picked your list and after you've picked battalions in 26. Why is it okay to work backwards here but not for enhancements? I was mainly trying to highlight that list building is fluid, and at no point does it clarify when you check the list is legal. You can add an endless spell and then ensure you take Arcane Tome to make sure the list works, nothing is stopping you doing this.

Yes I'm aware of this argument but it's not actually that straightforward. Nowhere does it state that you have to ensure the list is legal at each step in the process and that you can't proceed if there are any errors at each individual step. As long as the list is legal at the end there is no issue. To go further, you don't unlock sub allegiances and therefore battleline-if from those until after battalions are picked, so if you picked a bunch of blood knights in a Soulblight list, your list would technically be illegal and have no battleline even as you tried to bundle them in to a battle Regiment, as you don't unlock Kastelai til you get to choosing your subfaction. Same with Gristlegore, they don't become battleline til you pick the subfaction so you'd get stuck trying to put a terrorgheist in Hunters because at that point it's still a Behemoth. It alludes to this earlier, but doesn't actually take place til after. If you can retroactively make the list legal with this I'm sure you can do the same with Arcane Tome and an endless spell. List building is therefore a fluid process. Of course I could be making a mistake somewhere but as far as I'm aware the above is true. Happy to be proven wrong as it doesn't impact any of my armies but I don't think it's as straightforward as you say.

That probably refers to killing heroes or something.

"the spectral bolts of the Craventhrone Guard always hit their mark"... Hits on 4s 🤣

Yeah it's never been an issue at all, I've only been aware of one person raising the concern on Twitter. It's been allowed here in the UK without ever being questioned.