AresX8

I personally start my lists with the following: - 2x Slaughterpriests - Bloodsecrator - Hexgorger Skulls - Wrath Axe - Extra Command Point So that's 470 points. The only time I find the Judgements to not be worth while is centered around the Skulls, where I'm playing against someone that doesn't have magic. In that case, they're a fancy roadblock. I also agree with @twrightii's ranking. How many Keepers were being used? I'm also curious why you took the Charnel Host, that's an interesting batallion to take compared to say, the Murderhost.

I played a test game using Murderhost last night with MSU Bloodletters alongside an Unfettered Fury Bloodthirster... I think there's something here to explore. Having +2 to run rolls is interesting since that increases your chances of being within 6" for Rejoice in the Slaughter to occur, and having MSU Bloodletters means that with proper positioning it'll be much easier to put Leave None Alive on them to make them fight twice. You also really don't care about not charging because of said pile in capability. I'll keep testing this idea. I'm also wondering if this is simply a "cute" list because it relies so much on the Unfettered Fury being alive early game, but with proper threat saturation you can most likely protect him.

He does 7 damage, here's the breakdown as to why: pg 8 of the Core Rules Designer's Commentary ( https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/age_of_sigmar_core_rules_designers_commentary_en-1.pdf ) states: "ABILITIES 1. Q: If two abilities affect a value, and one adds a modifier to the value and the other either multiplies or divides the value, do you apply the modifiers before or after multiplying or dividing the value? A: Apply the modifiers after multiplying or dividing the value." And also on the same page: 2. "Q: If several abilities are triggered at the same time (at the start of a hero phase, for example), how do you determine the order in which they are used? A: If several abilities can be used at the same time, the player whose turn is taking place uses their abilities first, one after the other, in any order they desire; then the player whose turn is not taking place uses their abilities, one after another, in any order they desire. The same principle applies to any other things – such as command traits or artefacts of power – that can be used simultaneously. Note that abilities used at the start or the end of a phase still count as being used in the phase in question." The second question here is the key one as Daemonforged Axe and Gorecleaver proc at the same time. So you can choose to have Daemonforged Axe go off first, which sets the damage value of that attack to 3. Gorecleaver then goes off, which doubles the damage value to 6. You then finally add 1 to this damage as following the first question.

To me our point changes just opened up crazy list building capabilities. Bloodthirsters dropping as much as they did was incredibly unexpected and that means you can stuff them in more lists. I absolutely did not expect the Bloodsecrator to drop to 120 as well, that means I can upgrade my Mighty Lord to a Daemon Prince now in most of my lists.

@fwlr If you can wait until the GHB FAQ drops, I'd highly advise that as we're expecting point changes for us in that. Thing is we don't have an exact date outside of "early July." I'm hoping that means the weekend of July 4th.

It depends on your army composition. For you, with most of your points being in Bloodthirsters the extra pile-in range doesn't matter that much unless you're coming across an opponent using The Activation Wars™ (ie fight before anything else can), then it really matters. In other lists, where you have units with big footprints, it matters way more. For example, I was able to get nearly an entire unit of Bloodcrushers to attack a Ghoul King on Terrorgheist after they charged him with the command ability, and shift around way more Bloodletters and therefore get more attacks in.

Ok, understood, thanks for the input! Are you taking a lot of Bloodreavers? If so, then absolutely, as they loooove a mobile totem and its warscroll prayer is absolutely amazing for them. It's also another Priest, so it can take a Blood Blessing AND bring out Judgements.

@Agent of Chaos How did it feel not having as much emphasis on Slaughterpriests? Hexgorger Skulls don't seem that relevant for your list since you have so much anti-magic going on, but I can see the -2 helping all of the unbinds you have, where would you find the points though I don't know XD. I'm also curious why you took a Skullmaster and not something like Skulltaker, who costs exactly the same and is an absolute monstrosity in combat. Maybe speed? I do agree with the Unfettered Fury a lot, he seems to be an incredibly important piece for heavy Daemon armies. I've also come to the conclusion that Crimson Crown is one of the strongest artifacts on him.

@Sleboda Yes, Mage Eater was errataed to allow 2 unbinds: "Page 80 – Mage Eater Add the following to the end of the rule: ‘If this general can already unbind spells, they can attempt to unbind 1 extra spell in the enemy hero phase (only the first unbinding roll in the phase can inflict mortal wounds).’" First entry: https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/age_of_sigmar_blades_of_khorne_errata_en.pdf

Yup, it's called assembly line painting. Group up similarily posed models together, pick one section/color to paint on a model, then cycle through all models in that group, painting that one particular section/color. By the time you get back to the first model in this group, the paint should already be dry and you can move on to the next section/color.

Magnetize at the wrists. It's a simple snip off from the hand and shave down to make it flat, see here: https://imgur.com/r/warhammer40k/eAocm

I have to agree with the Unfettered Fury Bloodthirster. I finally sat down and magnetized the whip and used him last night and I was very impressed by him. The 6" pile in move is deceptively strong and is incredible for 6 model units of Bloodcrushers. His whip also does a surprising amount of damage now that he hits on 3's, re-rolling 1's. I'm really happy to say that all 3 Bloodthirsters are very much worth using :). As part of the game last night I had Skulltaker be an absolute boss, doing I believe 15 mortal wounds (9 of them to a Ghoul King on a Terrorgheist XD). He's definitely worth it for 120 points and is the best Bloodletter Hero to use in Murderhost. Give him Bronzed Flesh, and he has a 3+ re-rollable save, so strong! I've been finding Bloodletters subpar, which is very unfortunate. Them losing run and charge hit them a lot, lot harder than I anticipated, and to get them to worthwhile damage results, here's what you have to put into a single unit: - Reapers of Vengeance Leave None Alive. - Extra attacks (only via Bloodsecrator and Wrathmongers) - Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster's Lord of the Blood Hunt to fish for 6's. That's 2 command points and you need to have the unit wholly within 8" of a Daemon Hero which is way harder than it sounds when it's a big blob of Bloodletters, and wholly within 8" of a few Wrathmongers (rather difficult), and wholly within 16" of a Bloodsecrator (This one is pretty easy) . They also really need to be screened to have them attack first, otherwise they just fold so easily with 1 wound a 5+ for their cost. They do seem overcosted due to the expectation of rolling a lot of 6's on hits for those mortals. I'm really sad about this since I have 60 Bloodletters, 40 of them are fully painted. Flesh Hounds have similar durability issues but they need attack buffs much less with their really high base amount of attacks, and have a lot for their points. I also took a unit of 6 Bloodcrushers and was impressed by them too. They seem appropriately pointed for their durability, speed and output. Just makes me more excited to start testing Skullcrushers

I view him in a completely different light: He's a final wave option that can be turned into a Bloodthirster's worth of damage output when designed correctly. He can easily get to +2 attacks (Bloodsecrator and Wrathmongers), or even +3 (add Aspiring Deathbringer). Giving him Ghyrstrike is the biggest damage increase you can give him outside of the obvious increasing the amount of attacks he has. I ran the numbers and from what I've seen, the +1/+1 shift is apparently bigger than giving him something like Gorecleaver, which I was really surprised about. His command ability is best used when you have multiple units charging in at the same time, as it's a net result of saving command points and allows your Heroes to not have to be within 6" of each unit that is charging. 16" off of his base covers a much bigger area than you'd think, I'd put him on the table and do said measurements so you really get to acknowledge it. His main issue is his damage being d3... so he's best being the Goretide General to benefit from Hew the Foe. Korghos is incredibly expensive but he will fight more often due to his huge pile-in range. His command ability is sadly a wash and he can't benefit from command abilities, although he does essentially have Slaughterborn. There was a difference between the Reality-Splitting Axes in the previous book, but now they're exactly the same. The difference before was that Korghos's was usable in any phase and the Mighty Lord was only the combat phase. This difference is now gone as both models have this capability. It's also interesting to note that Grizzlemaw has Rend.

After what felt like an eternity away from this thread and painting in general due to a crazy costume being made, I'm back at it with a finished unit of Wrathmongers!

I've been trying to stuff them into my lists as well but the issue I'm seeing is that a unit of 6 is 360 points. That's a big chunk of change that's not always available, so it seems to me that you have to build a list around them rather than shoehorning them in. The buff they'll be receiving is most commonly Rage of Khorne from the Bloodsecrator, or with good positioning, Slaughterpriest Blood Blessings. The most important buff they can get though is +1 to hit as the Glaives are the most common weapon they'll have due to the -1 Rend.

I used Resanguination (it was on my Warshrine) at the tournament I went to that I posted the batrep for multiple pages back. I used it only once during the whole event, I'm swapping it for Blood Sacrifice in the future.

Threat saturation and throwing tons of dice is what makes Khorne strong. Everything we have can fight, including our support heroes. Yes, a Slaughterpriest with the Bloodbathed Axe might not be AS fighty as say a buffed up Mighty Lord, but when you have the same Slaughterpriest attack 5 times, different story! I wouldn't think there's a specific formula that be used as a general guideline since each Slaughterhost builds differently, and then each battalion in each Slaughterhost would build differently. As for unit roles, this is what I see: Bloodreavers Chaff killers. First wave in a Goretide list. Screening unit for Slaughterpriests/Bloodsecrator. Blood Sacrifice unit. Glass cannon role. Blood Warriors Good against everything When buffed accordingly, can throw out an absurd amount of attacks Weakest against units that can re-roll armor saves (*stares at Sequitors*), as that negates the power of throwing out a lot of wounds. Gorefists are best against fighting units with 4+ or better armor. Dual Goreaxes are best against fighting chaff units, or units with lots of wounds but low armor (like FEC Flayers). Great unit to shift someone off an objective. Hammer/Anvil unit role depending on the matchup. Skullreapers Good against everything Best against units that Blood Warriors are weak against Can also handle hordes, again, through sheer volume of attacks Superb second wave unit, also great unit to shift someone off an objective. Don't need buffs as much as Bloodreavers/Blood Warriors but get exponentially scarier the more buffs they get. Essentially Mortal equivalent to Bloodletters, but are not battleline. Wrathmongers Good against everything Best against high armor units with the -1 Rend and again, sheer volume of attacks Third wave unit since you want to extend the attack buff duration as long as possible. Great unit to shift someone off an objective. Buffwise, only really want Killing Frenzy, as 2's to hit with that many attacks is incredibly scary. Mighty Skullcrushers Interesting hybrid between hammer and anvil unit. Hammer on the charge with unit of 6+ models due to the d3 mortals on 2+ after charge move. 5 wounds with 3+ save is what makes them an anvil. Bronzed Flesh just makes them a stupid anvil. Throw out a lot of attacks per model, especially when buffed. Ensorcelled Axes are best against low armor units. Bloodglaives best against all other targets due to the Rend, but will badly need Killing Frenzy. Best used as a second wave unit to ensure the charge. Flesh Hounds Chaff killers. Can also grab early objectives. Good screening unit for Daemon heavy lists. Great Blood Tithe unit that you'll also get work out of. Don't need many buffs with their high base amount of attacks. Excellent summoning unit for 3 Blood Tithe. Get a lot out of Leave None Alive Reapers of Vengeance command ability. Bloodletters Glass cannon unit for Daemons. Really need extra attack buffs. Excellent against everything but best against units with 4+ armor or that can re-roll armor saves. Shine a lot when under Lord of the Blood Hunt from the Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster command ability to fish for 6's to hit. Amazing under Leave None Alive Reapers of Vengeance command ability. Best when in units of 20+ to get the native +1 to hit from Murderous Tide. Take both banners when in this size! Bloodcrushers Lean more towards hammer unit compared to Skullcrushers. Also cheaper than Skullcrushers. Also need extra attacks to get the most out of the Hellblades. Also want Killing Frenzy. Probably best in Bloodlords as the command ability there will keep them around a bit longer.

All your Daemon Prince talk had me look at him for the first time in months. And damn does he do a lot for 160 points, his biggest drawback IMO compared to a Bloodthirster is the lack of a command ability; he's simply a beatstick, but a fast one too. Definitely worth considering and building around him. EDIT: If you take him as a Bloodlords General and give him Wings he moves 16" and re-rolls failed charges, that's stupid fast!

Skullcrushers being sent over with Ever Onwards completely changes the dynamic of the game. Like, to the point where it's not worth taking much feedback from besides seeing how your own army has performed barring crazy bad rolling. It's also why playing multiple games matters so much as it shows you different aspects of how your army will perform and against different targets. It's incredibly difficult to give tactical advice on a text based forum since nearly all of the nuance of a wargame is lost without highly detailed pictures (I skipped over such detail myself in my own battle report of the event I attended this past weekend due to this knowledge). Model positioning, model movement order, deployment choices, fight orders, remembering all of the special rules in play, turn order, etc etc etc. Theory is the the easiest thing to talk about on a text based forum, and the best way to figure things out that's not playing actual games is to watch battle reports, do mock up scenarios (like set up a certain unit size (like 30 Bloodletters) to get an idea of their footprint to see if they'd be in a certain aura range easily), and analyze your own games with detailed turn by turn pictures. I did all of this during my Warmachine days and I've carried the mentality over to this game. I traveled across the US for competitive events during my Warmachine days and left that all behind when I left the game as that's way too much stress. I don't know how long you've been wargaming nor how you play because I'm not physically there watching you play. Using your Bloodmad Warband list as a specific example, I don't know how far you've deployed your Skull Altar back, or how you've spaced your units to be covered by the Aspiring Deathbringer, or which unit is at the very front of the deployment zone, how you move your army, etc.

Found something in the Designer's Commentary in regarding the Skullshard Mantle from Reapers of Vengeance: "Q: Some abilities allow a unit to ignore the effects of a spell. What does this mean exactly? A: It means that the rule effects caused by a spell that has been successfully cast and that has not been unbound do not apply to the unit. Any other units will be affected normally." Pg 6, first question under Wizards and Spells: https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/age_of_sigmar_core_rules_designers_commentary_en.pdf Still not too sure what it means XD

I've thought about maxing out one of the Bloodletter units, then I sat down and measured it out. That unit size is very unwieldy to get Leave None Alive off as that's used at the start of the combat phase and there's a good chance you'll charge out of range of a Hero without risking them. I did think about adding the Bleeding Icon, that'll stack real good with the innate Reapers of Vengeance command ability

This is my current test build for Reapers of Vengeance (NOTE: I've only played this once): Allegiance: Khorne- Slaughterhost: Reapers of VengeanceLeadersWrath of Khorne Bloodthirster (320)- General- Trait: Mage Eater - Artefact: The Crimson Crown Skulltaker (120)Bloodsecrator (140)- Artefact: Skullshard Mantle Slaughterpriest (100)- Blood Blessing: Killing FrenzySlaughterpriest (100)- Blood Blessing: Bronzed FleshBattleline20 x Bloodletters (220)20 x Bloodletters (220)5 x Flesh Hounds (100)5 x Flesh Hounds (100)Units5 x Wrathmongers (140)1 x Karanak (140)BattalionsMurderhost (160)Endless SpellsWrath-Axe (60)Hexgorger Skulls (40)Total: 1960 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1 I've put the Skullshard Mantle for exactly the reason you just mentioned @Sleboda, he'll most likely be sniped via spells. The Mantle just goes "Nope!"... although that does pose a question, what does "effects of a spell" exactly entail? Something to email in me thinks. The Crimson Crown is on the Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster specifically because there's 2 units of Bloodletters who want to fight twice and fish for 6's, so that's pretty command point heavy. Karanak was added since he's free floating points and another hero to use Leave None Alive from, I've found that you need more than 2 Heroes to reliably use Leave None Alive.

I'm curious as to the reasoning for the choice as being exclusively Daemons as that's pigeon holing yourself. The Bloodsecrator and a pair of Slaughterpriests are way too good to pass up.

I think it's GW sticking to what's in the box for the unit, but again, Sequitors..... >.> I've stuck to 10 man Blood Warriors specifically for the Goreglaive. It adds a much needed amount of punch for the unit. I do 2 10 man units and 1 unit of 5 for Bloodmad and it works just fine. In regards to Gorefists, one of the 10 man units has Gorefists and the other has dual Goreaxes. I used to think that Gorefists were better but now I'm not so sure, I think it depends on the targets. I can see Gorefists being better against units you fight that have good saves with dual Goreaxes are better against 5+ or worse save units. As for mortals, that's an issue for us in general since we don't have many shrugs available. It's annoying but it feeds us anyway, I've been thinking that Khorne is best played without any regards to defense and go all out on offense, pretty fluffy IMO

The only downside is you don't get a Goreglaive in a 5 man unit. But you're correct otherwise, I've seen similar results from the single 5 man unit I use in my list to fulfill Bloodmad Warband. Also, can anyone post a comparison picture of the old Skulltaker model to the resculpt? I have the old sculpt but in Finecast so I've been hesitant on picking up the resculpt. I haven't painted mine up since I'm afraid of the Slayer Sword snapping down the road.