Agent of Chaos

@Salyx those all sound like really good tips for making Cabalists viable. Comparing 900 points of sorcerers to Archaon is a great way to put it into context. I would also suggest a Balewind as another option for extending spell range.

@Juicy I like your optimism but you are comparing the staying power of 30 Liberators (60 wounds) with a 3+ save (probably 2+ with Castellant nearby) rerolling 1's, against 2 x 10 chaos warriors (2 x 20 wounds) with a 4+ save rerolling. Those warriors will get blown off objectives (or outnumbered) by just about any other battleline you can name, let alone if something elite looks at them. The list might go OK in a casual game but in a tournament with lists tuned up to 11??? You will see a ton of Lumineth/Tzeentch/Nagash/Seraphon which will shut down the magic (throw in Khorne as well), Kharadron/Cities/Lumineth/Seraphon lists will shoot the wizards off the table, Idoneth/FEC/Ogres/Iron Jaws/Giants/Fire Slayers will melee it off the table turn 2 or 3. That list has no speed, a single teleport that relies on a 9" charge, only 30 bodies for holding objectives, no summoning and very little melee power. That list (or any Cabalist list) would need incredible luck to win 1 tournament game let alone 3. I don't enjoy being negative but call a spade a spade. There is a reason you don't see people on these forums often talking about Cabalists as well as not seeing them at tournaments. Maybe if spell lore had decent range so you could do magic damage from turn 1 it would have some play but as is you might have 2 turns at most to get the most out of your magic before the opponent is in your face hacking you to bits.

Not with 3 units it cant. 2 x 10 slow moving warriors won't last long or kill anything. 10 x Knights can do work in some circumstances but won't win the game on their own. Apart from the endless spells & Wind of Chaos, all of the offensive spells are 12" range meaning all of the squishy wizards need to get danger close to the enemy to cause damage. If it comes up against a strong anti-magic list its toast. Against an opponent with little to no anti-magic the spells might go off however the opponent will likely have mass bodies or FNP to whether the magic damage, shooting to pick off the wizards or enough speed to stay out of range and swoop in and take out the wizards. Unfortunately I feel Cabalists is a trap and probably the hardest legion to have success with.

Between chariots running and charging and teleporting marauders I do have some good reach and alpha strike potential which is nice. Rerolling saves and hits/wounds all over the place is nice too, although none of the attack profiles are heavy enough for it to really worry my opponents. The Khorne Idolator Lord and 5 x knights with lances make for a good power pair as they love his reroll hits prayer and +1 to wound aura and that is something I would look to expand on at 2K. My list definitely lacked in several ways. Damage output and very little resilience was what I felt the most, especially in the two games against nurgle. I was able to put some hurt on them but they hit back just as hard and my units melted, especially with rend 1 or higher, whereas they still had plenty of bodies left and the option to summon if needed. I definitely missed some late game summoning Ravagers style. My first 2 games were more even but my opponents were not running OP lists by any stretch and lady luck was on my side at the right times. Being 9 drops meant I never had the choice of who went first which was definitely a disadvantage but the lack of command abilities and artifacts makes me feel that a battalion is wasted points in this legion. I feel like Idolators would be completely outclassed by most things at 2K. Apart from using a bunch of warcry units to fill out plague touched which is a very specific build, I just dont think they have enough tricks to match it with even mid-tier armies/lists. Reliable prayers are nice but hardly crucial. If the desecrate scenery rule was a bit more reasonable to pull off then they would have a better chance in some match ups where scenery is crucial (ahem, Nurgle) but in most games it wouldn't be a factor anyway. Warshrines gaining the Leader keyword is a tax in all but one or two battleplans where leaders score extra VP, otherwise it just steals a slot from a hero with an aura for no benefit. That being said I've come up with a 2K list that expands on the power pair concept with a resilient core. Big block of Nurgle warriors supported by Exalted Hero and Warshrine to hold the centre (3+ reroll saves, 6+ shrug, rerolling wounds and 6's doing 2 dmg), Flanking force consisting of Idolator Lord, Daemon Prince (to prevent counter charges), lance knights (all marked Khorne) with a Manticore Sorcerer for save rerolls and magic/melee support. Finally Belakor is there to slingshot the marauders when an opening presents itself and otherwise do Belakor things. Hoping to give this a try soon: Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness- Damned Legion: IdolatorsMortal Realm: UlguLeadersIdolator Lord on Chaos Chariot (120)- General- Command Trait: Smite the Unbeliever- Artefact: Trickster's Foil- Mark of Chaos: Khorne- Prayer: Blessings of KhorneBe'Lakor (240)- Spell: Mask of DarknessChaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore (260)- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle- Spell: Spite-tongue CurseSlaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)- Sword- Mark of Chaos: KhorneExalted Hero of Chaos (90)- Mark of Chaos: NurgleBattleline30 x Chaos Warriors (540)- Halberd & Shield- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle20 x Chaos Marauders (160)- Axes & Shields- Mark of Chaos: Khorne5 x Chaos Knights (160)- Ensorcelled Weapons- Mark of Chaos: KhorneBehemothsChaos Warshrine (170)- Mark of Chaos: KhorneEndless Spells / Terrain / CPsExtra Command Point (50)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1

Cheers for the tips @Salyx. You are right about my opponents bringing tough lists but I wanted to give Idolators a try. Cant bag em out until you've played em right?! I didnt screen properly in game 4 as I expected to be given first turn... my bad. I could have set up even further back so the marauders couldnt reach me first turn in the hope they would let me go first but I needed at least the Idolator Lord on the front line so I could teleport a unit onto the tree and still be wholly within 12" of him to turn it off. Desecrate is such a hard command ability to pull off I dont know if I'll ever manage it. To be fair I did have the option of counter charging the marauders after their alpha strike and hitting them hard but as it was places of arcane power I decided to focus on the heroes. I gambled on sending my own marauders into the Glotkin instead of the nurgle marauders but they whiffed pretty bad. In hindsight I should have cleared the nurgle marauders first and then I might have had a chance. I've mentioned in previous posts about this league but 1000 points of our lists are fixed so I cant chop and change to tailor my opponents apart from 250 points. In my fixed 1K I have the Idolator Lord, a warshrine (which takes up another leader slot), and 2 sorcerers to round out my 4 leader slots as I wanted some magic and save rerolls, etc. Therefore no Karkadrak, Manticore, Belakor or switching to Ravagers unfortunately. I dont own any warcry stuff so dont have any cheap screens available apart from 5 chaos warriors who dont cover much ground. I will definitely focus on the smaller supporting Ogre units and feed what chaff I have to the 12 Gluttons but will be an uphill battle no matter what.

Thought I'd give an update on my Idolators in our 1250 point leauge. After clinching my first game against an Anvilguard Cities list in Knife to the Heart, I also took out game 2 against a predominantly Khorne Daemon list in Total Conquest. To be fair my opponent was relatively inexperienced and didnt play the objectives as well as he could have but was still a convincing win. Games 3 and 4 were against Nurgle lists in Battle for the Pass (shrunk down to a 4' x 4' table) and Places of Arcane power. Both games were resounding losses for me as the Idolators could not go toe to toe with 20 Blight Kings in the Blight Cyst battalion or 40 Marauders with various Nurgle buffs on them. In both games I was super keen to use the desecrate command ability to turn off the gnarlmaw as that would have stopped their run and charge and given me a shot. Despite having first turn in game 3 I failed mask of darkness (because of course I did) while the wheel gave him +2" movement so he had models on the tree bottom on round 1 and the opportunity was lost. Still managed to kill 12 out of 20 blight kings but wasnt enough. In game 4 my opponent unexpected took first turn, buffed the 40 marauders with +1 attack from Glottkin, cast daemonic power and the spell that gives mortals on 6+ to hit in addition to normal damage (so mortals on 5+). Thanks to the tree they covered 23" and messed me up good. 7 of them were enough to kill my warshrine with mortal wounds alone and it felt very broken, and thats with me unbinding the spell that would have given them an extra wound each. The Glottkin held the centre all game so I did what I could to hold the outside objectives and was somehow still in it by round 4 but then the wheel of contagion allowed my opponent to choose a unit and do D3 mortal wounds, allowing them to finish off my sorcerer holding one objective which enabled them to focus their attention on the other one. With the tree still in play the marauders went from one corner of the field to the other to clear off my remaining objective at that was game. Although I made some mistakes I really cant see what I could have done against either Nurgle list, other than be lucky enough to turn off the tree. My last 2 games will be against a Slaves Cabalist List which I have a chance against and an Ogre Bloodgullet list with a unit of 12 Gluttons which will not got well for me I think. If I can go 3-3 in this league with Idolators I will be happy but will let you all know either way.

@Zamik wrath of khorne bloddthirster's command ability used to let a unit of daemons run and charge. Combined with the bloodstoker it was a common tactic for mobs of bloodletters to alphastrike. The mortal wounds were on 6+ to hit, which meant 5+ in units of 20 or more and 4+ if you put killing frenzy on them. It put out a disgusting amount of mortal wounds but once your opponent knew what you could do they just screened their important stuff and the bloodletters still died to a strong breeze. Obviously GW thought that was too OP so run & charge command ability disappeared and stoker become locked to buffing mortals only. As for Khorgoraths, I can understand them not being mortal but lacking at least daemon or monster keyword seems odd. Even if they could receive a few buffs via having any of those keywords it would hardly be OP compared to what else is out there in the game.

Yes, the FAQ now dictates the marks for cultists, who previously couldnt get a mark at all. However that rule has no effect on the rest of the army though, who can choose marks as they please.

Idolators can choose a mark like everyone else. Thats why the Idolator Lord has 5 different prayers, with the one he takes dependent on his mark. Only the battalion locks you into Undivided for your Idolator Lord but that doesnt stop other units from taking a mark of their choice.

Rolled out the Idolators for the first time last night (game 1 of 6 in our 1250 point campaign) against an Anvilgard army with 30 great swords and 20 crossbows in a Knife to the Heart battleplan. We both had 9 drops but of course I lost the roll off for deployment so he made me take first turn. No matter, we were close enough for a chariot alpha strike (the chariot also happened to be my Bait for an Auxiliary Objective) and he had left an opening in his lines where I could get at the crossbows. Naturally I failed the 2+ warshrine khorne prayer while I chose to hold the Idolator lord back and out of shooting range. This meant the chariot was not rerolling charges and I of course failed. I cast daemonic power on the marauders but then failed mask of darkness so I just held everything back. He shot the chariot to bits in his first turn but otherwise just moved forward. I won priority into Round 2 and probably could have given my opponent the turn here but I felt like things had been going against me and I wanted to do some damage. Again I failed mask of darkness so the marauders were stuck at the back. I charged my glaive knights into his crossbows & dread spears on my left (having given them reroll hits from the Idolator Lord) while my ensorcelled weapon knights went into the handgunner screening the great swords on my right. I wiped out the dread spears and handgunners, losing a couple of glaive knights to his assassin and all but one of my knights to the great swords, which I kept around with a CP. He finished off all my knights with shooting and then made a 12" charge into my Idolator lord with the greatswords. I thought he was done for but suddenly I managed to roll some 6 up shrugs from the warshrine and rerolling saves from the sorcerer came into play; when the dust settled I only took 5 wounds from about 15 great swords hitting me! I again won priority (at least something was going right for me), finally cast mask of darkness which I used to move the Idolator Lord out of combat, put Chaos Undivded prayer on the marauders and proceeded to wipe out the great swords with them. The Idolator Lord failed his charge onto the Runelord that was supporting the great swords (shame because I really wanted an eye of the gods roll). In his turn he shot the warshrine to bits, then finished it off with the assassin who was now threatening my objective. I won priority into Round 4, used my run and charge with the Idolator Lord to get around the flank and charge the shadow warriors holding his objective, made a 12" charge with the Marauders onto the same unit and charged the assassin with 5 chaos warriors (needed my Overwhelm Auxiliary Objective). The chariot took out half the shadow warriors, they killed a couple of marauders in return, my chaos warriors finished off the assassin and then my marauders piled onto the objective before finishing off the shadow warriors and secured the win! This game was a real lesson in patience. Apart from the priority rolls and one good armour save event for the Idolator Lord, I was failing everything and getting beaten up. I dont regret going for that alpha strike as it could have been glorious on another day. I was right to hold my Idolator Lord back until he had an opening and I'm finding a hero chariot is a good thing to have. Onto game 2 against Ogres!

@Andrethegreat Slaves are not in a bad place but they are by no means top tier. The army is capable of playing above average in all phases (aside from shooting) but its difficult to fit it all in one list. In my experience, even games where you are rock to their scissors, you still need to play well to secure a win. Whereas if you are paper to their scissors it can be pretty tough. Its not an army that just pushes forward and wrecks face so its about finding what you like and working out how to get the most out of it. We have some of the best spells in the game but most are 12" range. You can load up on wizards and build a list that buffs casting but it will be weak in combat. If shooting is your issue its possible to build a strong anti-shooting list with negs to hit and sight blocking terrain that will drive your opponent nuts, but that same list will be vulnerable to magic and only mid-tier in combat. You can build a list with nothing but Archaon and Varanguard that hits like a mack-truck but you will struggle to hold objectives with so few bodies. You can play an army that summons a new unit each turn but its command point heavy without any way of generating extra CP and there are a lot of moving parts to get the best out of that list. The most cost effective unit we have is marauders but the current models are pretty average looking and painting 80+ of them would be a nightmare for most people. Above are just some of the many list building options at our disposal. If you're into it I would suggest checking out slaves battle reports on youtube as you will get an idea of the different lists available and how they perform.

@NorthernNurgling Mammoth can have the Nurgle mark along with its Mortal keyword so dont see why it couldnt be part of Plague Touched.

It does give you a wizard without taking up a leader battlefield role which seems like it might have been an interesting option for Cabalists... but it appears to be keyword locked to Ravagers legion.

@Ravinsild looks really good! I think your logic is pretty spot on with the battalion. It does suck to lose a unit of knights but going down to 2 drops plus the extra CP could be crucial for you. Karkadrak lord should have no problem killing models to proc the battalion ability too.

Bronzed Flesh will be useful more often then Resanguination. Despite 2 battalions you have a lot of bodies so I think its a good list.

@Ravinsild cool list, I like it! I usually give Eternal Vendetta command trait to lord on karkadrak and mark of the high favoured as the go to artifact (You've only got 3 heros who can be the general so you should get good mileage out of it). I would definitely be giving at least one unit of knights glaives as between rerolls and the lords command ability/aura they can be pretty reliable to hit and wound. Would also consider giving at least one unit of warriors great weapons for some rend. They will lost the 5+ mortal wound save but the warshrine can make up for some of that and it makes a big difference to their offensive output. @Perturbato The whole thing is lame. Gorebeast chariots are overpriced for what they do and you cant take a 2nd artifact in Idolators... basically the battalion is trash.

Im about to play in another 6 game campaign at 1250 points. Everyone is running fluffy or at least reasonable lists so thought I would give Idolators a go. Lots of great ways to use cultists noted by people above but I dont own any and probably dont want to run a battalion at 1250 anyway. This is what I came up with: Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness - Damned Legion: Idolators Mortal Realm: Ulgu Leaders Idolator Lord on Chaos Chariot (120) - General - Command Trait: Smite the Unbeliever - Artefact: Trickster's Foil - Mark of Chaos: Khorne - Prayer: Blessings of Khorne Chaos Sorcerer Lord (110) - Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch - Spell: Mask of Darkness Chaos Sorcerer Lord (110) - Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch - Spell: Spite-tongue Curse Battleline 5 x Chaos Knights (160) - Ensorcelled Weapons - Mark of Chaos: Khorne 20 x Chaos Marauders (160) - Axes & Shields - Mark of Chaos: Khorne 1 x Chaos Chariots (120) - Greatblades - Mark of Chaos: Khorne 5 x Chaos Knights (160) - Cursed Lance - Mark of Chaos: Khorne 5 x Chaos Warriors (90) - Hand Weapon & Shield - Mark of Chaos: Khorne Behemoths Chaos Warshrine (170) - Mark of Chaos: Khorne Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs Extra Command Point (50) Total: 1250 / 1250 Extra Command Points: 1 Between Daemonic Power and the Warshrine I have 2 reliable ways to get reroll hit and wounds. Chariot Lord's prayer for another way to reroll hits. 2 ways to get guaranteed reroll saves and a possible teleport. Chariot Lord has 4 attacks with the great blade, hitting and wounding on 2+ , rerolling 1's for both thanks to mark of khorne and Ulgu artefact, -1 rend, 2dmg for 8 dmg potential... not bad. The list has 96 wounds which feels like a lot for 1250 points. Fingers crossed!

@Perturbato any nurgle marked unit wholly within 12" of a nurgle marked hero gets +1 damage for any 6's to wound in melee. If wholly within 12" of the Nurgle General then they get a bonus effect of -1 to hit that unit with shooting. Means rerolls to wound are extra valuable as you can fish for 6's for extra damage.

Sometimes if I get 2 tithe in the first turn (via blood sacrificing Riptooth) I will summon in a Bloodmaster, just to have an extra hero as a summoning point or to put out a locus for any further daemons I summon (and have won a game thanks to summoning one onto an unclaimed objective turn 5). Otherwise its usually 5-10 flesh hounds early-mid game for the free charge reroll/extra unbind. Bloodthirsters only get summoned late game as it usually takes that long to rack up 8 tithe. Often the game is already won or lost by that stage although a turn 4/5 summoned thirster has won me a couple of games for sure.

@Lord Krungharr Its an interesting list and I can see why you are going for double bloodsecrator. If you want to get priests in there then maybe swap the Karkadrak and flesh hounds (330 points) for 2 x priests, 10 x bloodreavers and one of the judgements or a chaso spawn. The wraith axe comes in at 2000 points while the spawn option is 1990 and the skulls leave you at 1980 for a possible triumph.

@rosa I find the shrine works really well with Judgements of Khorne too. Its large base and tendency to move forward in support of a unit of knights or warriors means you are a good chance of a judgement being wholly within 8" of it for a better chance to hang around at the end of a battle round.

@KoganStyle I would say its better to run them as 2 units of 5. Reason being 40mm bases with 1" reach make it hard to get more then 5 into melee at once. It also means 2 bloodtithe points when they die. Also they are vulnerable to shooting so splitting them up means your opponent cant focus fire down the whole unit. Pretty much the same points apply to Wrathmongers although granted they have 2" reach you still want to spread that buff around as you said.

@frenk_castle think of bloodreavers as a screen to protect your more important units and as a bloodtithe point. Split them into 2 x 10 and do not waste buffs on them. Skullreapers are your heavy hitters in a mortal army and the Korgorath can be handy as well. Screen with reavers, buff up and unleash them. The mighty skullcrushers, with bronzed flesh prayer on them, can be really tanky but won't kill much. Slaughterpriests with bloodboil prayer are essentially our artillery. Maybe play your Exalted Deathbringer with Spear as a 3rd priest (remember they can do 2 prayers each per turn). Do you have the altar? Rerolling prayers improves the priest's output massively. Are you planning to buy more models? If so Wrathmongers are handy for the extra attack and can do work in combat too. I would also recommend the Judgements of Khorne, especially in a priest heavy list. Don't forget bloodtithe isnt just for summoning daemons. Many a game has been won by using bloodtithe for an extra move or attack activation in the hero phase (and can be used in your opponent's hero phase). If you are prepared to run some daemons, flesh hounds are an excellent screen with decent attacks and an unbind. Finally I am not a fan of the mighty lord of khorne. There are better heroes to lead your force such as a Lord on Karkadrak or Daemon Prince, both of whom benefit more from Goretide Command Trait as they have multiple melee attacks. Good luck and keep practicing!

@Sharklone judging by your hand the ultraforge War Daemon looks closer in size to the old metal bloodthirster rather than the new plastic ones which are a fair bit bigger. He is probably more daemon prince sized however as long as you put him on the right sized base for a bloodthirster I dont think anyone would mind.

As far as I can tell, Archaon can be chosen as a Ravagers General as he would qualify as a Ravagers Hero, and therefore could use the Rally the Tribes ability. Belakor could not as Daemon Princes cannot be chosen as a Ravagers General.