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Agent of Chaos

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Everything posted by Agent of Chaos

  1. GW just hates khorne at the moment. Left out of broken realms, punished by the coalition changes and now this white dwarf slap.
  2. I've just seen leaks. Suffice to say we did not get the Beasts treatment Altar still gives reroll prayers within 8". However it now allows a garrisoned hero to summon a judgement as if it was a priest, so gets a reroll. Means your garrisoned bloodsecrator can throw out hexgorger skulls while your priests do their prayers. Nice I guess but far from game breaking. -1 to cast aura is gone, replaced with table wide effect; if a spell is miscast it causes D6 mw instead of D3. Not limited to enemy wizards so will hit a bloodthirster with arcane tome and flaming weapon or allied Belakor, etc. The new battle trait is Hatred of Sorcery. If a friendly khorne unit is effected by a spell or endless spell, you must roll a dice. On a 6 you ignore the effects and gain a bloodtithe point. Again it's nice to have but won't proc often so a bit meh. The grand strat requires you to summon deamons every turn after the first so pretty ******. The battle tactics are decent; kill a unit within 9" of the altar, kill a wizard, kill 8 or more models with a chosen friendly unit. And that's it. No changes to bloodtithe. No extra rend or damage. No monstrous actions for bloodthirsters. No mitigation of shooting. In summary, we are still screwed.
  3. We needed some alternate grand strategy options as the generic ones were all pretty tough if not impossible for us, however that wont make a huge difference. All I know is that the new battle trait and skull altar are going to have to do a lot of work! The altar could be a rend aura but that would be a straight copy of Beasts of Chaos so is unlikely. I dont necessarily want it to buff heroes because that restricts our deployment and makes it predictable, unless the buff aura is really generous so they dont have to stay close to it. Im hoping the battle trait is similar to big waah or DOK, where we get stacking buffs during the game as bloodtithe rises. There is no mention of blood tithe changing which is a little concerning...
  4. @Grimrock thats fair. The beasts update was a pretty radical change and improvement so it shows they are capable of doing it. We also know that GW pays attention to the stats collected by The Honest Wargamer (even if they dont credit them) as seen in the latest Meta Watch article. That should mean they are aware that Khorne is now statistically the worst performing army in tournaments world wide. The question is whether or not they became aware of those stats before the White Dwarf was written (which must occur several months before release at least).
  5. The next white dwarf update is confirmed to be Blades of Khorne. Do you think we will get the Beasts of Chaos treatment (army wide buffs, unique new abilities, etc), or the Slaves to Darkness treatment (i.e. virtually nothing)?
  6. Its against all fluff and lore but nothing ruleswise prevents it. Ive seen lists with arcane tome and flaming weapon on a bloodthirster which helps with their damage reliability, if you can get the spell off!
  7. @Lord Krungharr hilarious list! The Daemon Prince already gets a 5+ ward for being the despoiler general so no need for amulet of destiny.
  8. Because their ability to self edit any copy/rules they write is almost non existent.
  9. Sounds like a cool proxy to me. Some things to consider: - do you have any other beasts of chaos conversions/proxies in your army? - any beasts of chaos allies? - basically any way your chosen could be confused with other similar looking units? Just be really clear with your opponent at the start of the game (and remind them during the game if necessary) and if going to a tournament, check in with the TO first that your proxy is OK. Otherwise good to go!
  10. Has anyone caught the leaks for the Beasts of Chaos White Dwarf update? Some pretty cool stuff in there; massive boost to the herdstone (now a table wide rend 1, (increasing to rend 2 from turn 3 onwards) and units in range now rally on 4+ instead of 6; and A set of monstrous actions for BoC monsters which for the most part get around Hunters of the Heartland because they dont target the enemy unit, buffing the monster itself instead. Until now most of the white dwarf updates have been fairly uninspiring but this is a pretty decent and much needed buff for BoC and so has me thinking (and hoping) that Khorne might get a similar buff via white dwarf (as our new tome seems very far away). So what are some realistic buffs/changes we might get via white dwarf? Based on the above I'm guessing/hoping for something like; Monstrous actions for Bloodthirsters that make them more reliable (extra damage would be nice as D3/D6 sucks) or perhaps even a ward save for that combat; Increase the spell debuff range for the shrine, even make it table wide (as wizards rarely get within 16" of it). We are meant to be the anti-magic army afterall so how about a permanent -1 to casting when you fight against khorne? Maybe it permanently increases to -2 once you reach 8 bloodtithe for the first time? Instead of the daemon locus, make it an army wide reroll 1's to hit (mortals and daemons). Dual wielding bloodwarriors/reavers could be given an extra attack so their current reroll 1's arent made redundant. DOK already do this by turn 2 or 3 so it has precedent, and means we at least have one static allegiance ability active without needing to spend bloodtithe (plus it mirrors slaanesh's army wide exploding 6's and Nurgle's army wide 5+ ward). Still the weakest of the 4 Gods but its something and one less wholly wihtin aura for us to worry about. I'd love to go harder with this buff (e.g. reroll all hits, or 6's to hit do mortals, etc) but I'm trying to keep it realistic. Its not much but its definitely something . Anyone else got any ideas/hopes/dreams? At least GW has shown its possible to give a meaningful buff via white dwarf...
  11. Ive had a bit of success with this 1K list lately; Between the Despoilers healing, Radiance of Dark Glory and Heroic Recovery there is a fair amount of healing which is great against Nurgle and other armies that spray the mortal wounds around (not to mention there are a few 5+ wards in there too). Doombringer Blade goes on your opponent's big beastie or elite unit and then charge in with the lance knights. When inside the daemon prince's aura of khorne and Aspiring Deathrbinger's +1 attack aura plus all out attack and full rerolls they are going to delete anything. Sorcerer on Manticore can do work, especially if he gets flaming weapon onto the claws while winds of chaos is great for dealing with any horde units your opponent might have. If you need a road block, put mystic shield, oracular visions and all out defence on the ensorcelled weapon knights and they will hold against most things (especially since hunters stops monsters from roaring/stomping them). The Furies are amazing for taking objectives and are very useful for battle tactics. The daemon prince can make a terrain piece block line of sight if you need to avoid some shooting or line of sight magic. The army typically plays pretty defensive, using the DP's command ability to keep the enemy at bay until you are ready to engage with your buffs up. Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness- Damned Legion: Despoilers- Grand Strategy: Hold the LineSlaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)*- General- Sword- Command Trait: Radiance of Dark Glory- Artefact: Doombringer Blade- Mark of Chaos: KhorneChaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore (270)*- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)- Mark of Chaos: Slaanesh- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming WeaponAspiring Deathbringer (85)*- Goreaxe and Skullhammer- Allies5 x Chaos Knights (170)**- Ensorcelled Weapons- Mark of Chaos: Khorne5 x Chaos Knights (170)**- Cursed Lance- Mark of Chaos: Khorne6 x Furies (95)* *Warlord (Artefact)**Hunters of the HeartlandsTotal: 1000 / 1000Wounds: 67Drops: 6
  12. yeah pretty much no line of sight blocking outside of terrain or specific effects/abilities (such as the prismatic palisade). This doesnt apply to any of the above examples but there might be rare cases where line of sight is blocked by a model (friend or foe), such as a small single model hiding behind something massive like a Great Unclean One. In this instance the shooting unit is likely to be unable to see any part of the smaller model and therefore have no line of sight to shoot. There might also be cases where someone has a large scenic base that physically blocks LOS, such as a dragon or KO airship perched on some castle ruins. If someone tried to claim that the base was blocking LOS to something behind it that would likely be a case of modelling for advantage and it should really be treated as if the scenic portion wasnt there. Best to discuss this with your opponent before the game starts to clarify this so there are no 'gotcha' moments.
  13. Yeah I think Skaven is the most likely new chaos tome. They are a bit of a mess at the moment and havnt had an update in ages. Beasts also a good shout before Khorne, although GW doesnt seem to care about them either so could be us after the rats. GW could also go some way towards fixing khorne with a proper white dwarf update: Bloodtithe doesnt reset when spent; and Khorne specific grand strats and battle tactics that aren't garbage.
  14. @ogarrah Im guessing with so many units of reavers and just generally getting shot up that you were swimming in bloodtithe. So how did you use it? Whats your summoning pool like? Using the hero phase move can help to chase down KO but overall you are pretty slow without any flesh hounds, thirsters or fast coallition units like chaos knights. Also dont assume you would have been given the win for your first game in a tournament setting capped at 2.5 hours. Ive seen instances where the TO has run thorugh some hypotheticals such as the players rolling for priority and then talking through their actions before determining a result. If it was apparent that your uncle was going to wipe you if another round was played they may very well have ruled it a win for him (all depends on the TO of course). Totally agree Khorne is in a bad place. Not enough speed or offensive power, basically no defence. Some ability to deny magic but the strongest casting armies will still get their spells off anyway. Bloodtithe is a useful toolbox but having to choose bewteen summoning or a buff when no other army has to make this choice really hurts, especially on top of being the only army where the points reset to zero after any are spent. New tome cannot come soon enough, although I dont know how motivated GW are to do it given we were left out of broken realms and it would be a surprise if they were to add new models to the range given its not that old compared to many others.
  15. Archy giving fight on death to skarbrand is great for sure. Im coming from a place where I dont play archy. I just wanted to run my chaos knights etc and not feel like im being punished for doing so. Its true that secrator, wrathmonger and bloodstoker buffs all target 'khorne' keyword but not being able to spend blood tithe on those units hurts. Quite often it was the move or fight in the hero phase ability for 3 or 4 tithe that was game winning and there will come a time when you need to use that on a STD unit and you cant. Dont get me started on blood tithe though. Only army in the game that has to choose between summoning or getting an allegiance ability buff as well as the only one that resets to zero when points are spent. This on top of very little power projection and only one way in the whole army to generate it outside of destroying units, often meaning several turns have to pass before any tithe is generated to spend and youa re effectively playing without any allegiance abilities. By the time you have 8 to summon a thirster or activate exploding 6's to hit (i.e. the thing that Hedonites just do for free), most of the time you have already won or lost and its irrelevant.
  16. The new coalition rules were a gut punch to the god armies, especially Khorne which is in a real bad place right now. OK Archaon was a bit OP in Tzeentch with the destiny dice and spell buffs, maybe khorne too with the fight twice CA, but why did GW have to punish everyone when they could have just fixed Archy? First they stopped coalition units being the General or battleline and now they dont benefit from the allegiance abilities. Slaves units could fill a nice hole in the Khorne list, bring a tanky mortal hero or battleline (something the army completely lacks) or some cost effective fast damage dealers like knights or marauders, warshrine getting a khorne prayer or attempting a judgement etc. Now that you cant use blood tithe on slaves units, give the warshrine a khorne prayer, etc it makes you really reconsider if its worth bringing them at all. I just love how slaanesh marked chaos knights in STD get exploding 6's to hit, but put the same unit in a Hedonites of Slaanesh army and they forget how to do that. This change killed any chance of me running a slaanesh army as I wanted to run my knights & chariots there for the speed buffs. Way to lose sales GW... Meanwhile i dont know if it hurts STD as much. For example you can still bring a bloodsecrator for bonus attacks to your khorne marked units and he never benefited from the STD allegiance abilities but you dont need him to. The examples of stormcast in cities armies has lead to some really OP stuff (Fulminators in Living Cities anyone; come on from board edge, shoot then spend a CP to move before charging???) but apparently thats fine. Meanwhile chaos knights can reroll wounds of 1 when near an objective in the goretide slaughterhost and we have to put a stop to that!
  17. @ChaosUndivided an excellent summary. We have average to poor warscrolls that are lifted up to good (not great) by the many buffs available. Problem is those buffs are dependant on restrictive auras, spells with no bonuses to cast (outside cabalists which is a trap legion) or prayers (which can fail). It seems we are pointed if these buffs are on all the time but they rarely are. You also can't fit in everything you want so the army has the ability to do a lot of things but when you make a list you quickly find that you have to make a lot of sacrifices. i.e. Cabalists can be strong in magic but sacrifice melee power, and still get outmatched by true magic-dom armies. An all khorne nights and marauders melee list is strong in melee although needs to be in the general's aura and has no magic power or any of the control elements. A balanced list can be a jack of all trades but a master of none. If you don't get your buffs off when you need them you will bounce. Even when the buffs are up, best rend we can manage is 2 and there is very little of that, so in a save stacking meta we do very little damage. If you are someone who enjoys uphill tense battles every game then this is the army for you!
  18. I dont mind chucking 1 or 2 chariots in at 100pts but usually with a khorne allied Bloodstoker as the increased charge roll helps with the mortal wounds and the threat range is bonkers, especially if combined with the despoilers command trait paragon of ruin. I think they would need to be 70-80 points to really see them as viable in a competitve sense.
  19. I do love a warshrine but its damage chart is brutal! 3 wounds and that ward save aura shrinks to 12". At 185 that was acceptable but at 215 I start to question it...
  20. After being completely left out of the Broken Realms series, I'm really salty with this so called 'balance update' for Khorne. The points decreases do nothing in terms of being able to fit in an extra unit. 3 heroes that nobody takes due to tragic warscrolls, while skullreapers and blood warriors still way overcosted. The allegiance ability remains the only one that makes you choose between summoning or actually getting a buff, and now our pool of units to buff is smaller. I loved mixing in slaves units and while there are still generic "khorne" buffs I might still do, but the day will come where I lose a game because the unit I need to hero phase move with bloodtithe is not a 'blades of khorne' unit and that is going to suck. If Archaon was a problem then fix Archaon; no need to punish everybody.
  21. Well you have the essential daemon prince and lord on daemonic mount which is a great start. I would say knights really need a bloodstoker for the extra movement (plus 4 to charge is huge) and reroll wounds. Extra attacks are also essential so keep the bloodsecrator and swap the priest for a stoker (you can always AOD if you need +1 save). That means you can drop the wraith axe and put those points somewhere else. Then your knights need a source of rerolling hits, or at least rerolling 1's to hit. Skullfiend tribe sub faction is pretty good for this, or take mark of the slayer artifact on the lord. With those buffs in place your knights should slap!
  22. @Brother Mayhem @AdamR Bloodwarriors do next to nothing regardless so do what you think looks best. Aulisemia's suggestion is a solid option provided your opponents are not ****** about wysiwyg.
  23. Mark of the Slayer gives reroll 1's for all khorne. I didnt go into all the buffs as Skullreapers can benefit from that too so wanted to focus more on what made them unique. But you raise one of the more important points; your local meta and what you expect to face are very relevant. If hordes then reapers, if high armoured elites then bullgors might be the better option, although remember that the mortal wounds from skullreapers go straight through that high armour and they're a decent chance of being able to reroll and fish for 6's. Obviously bulls can do mortals as well but reapers will do a lot more on average. Maybe it comes down to how many points you have to spend and what buffing units you are taking. Bullgors you probably need to build your list around to get the most out of them (which is a perfectly fine thing to do) whereas Skullreapers are quite independant and can do a job on their own. No reason why you couldnt have both units in the same list. In fact here is something I cooked up a while ago but havnt tried yet: Warlord Notes Role Points Doombull Leader 115 Bloodsecrator General, Trait: Berzerker Lord Artifact: The Brazen Rune Leader 125 Bloodstoker Artifact: Talisman of Burning Blood Leader 85 3 x Bullgors Great Axes 155 3 x Bullgors Great Axes 155 Warlord Notes Role Points Daemon Prince Artifact: Mark of the Slayer Leader 210 Slaughterpriest Prayer: Killing Frenzy Leader 110 Aspiring Deathbringer Leader 85 10 x Bloodreavers Battleline 80 5 x Flesh Hounds Battleline 105 Hunters of the Heartlands Notes Role Points 5 x Wrathmongers 155 5 x Skullreapers 205 5 x Skullreapers 205 5 x Flesh Hounds Battleline 105 5 x Flesh Hounds Battleline 105 TOTAL = 2000
  24. @The Red King Hadnt really thought to compare them but I guess as hard hitting elite units its fair to do so. Assuming min sized units and Great Axes on the Bullgor... Skullreapers have 15 wounds at a 4+ save and are immune to battleshock vs Bullgors with 12 wounds, 5+ save and only bravery 6. Although the Bullgor banner will likely increase their bravery by at least 1 and likely more so, meaning they are at least highly resistant to battleshock, the Skullreapers are still far more survivable and do not lose damage output from casualties as dramatically as bullgors do. Bullgors have the speed advantage at move 7 vs move 5 (with neither being particularly fast) while both units get +1 to charge. Both units have a 1" reach (Bullgor great axes with 1" reach... really GW???) so coherency for reinforced units is an issue for both of them. At full strength Skullreapers have 20 attacks doing mortal wounds on 6's to hit yet mystifyingly have no rend, but are at least 3+ to hit and wound. They also have 1 x D3 damage attack at rend 1 that never does anything. Against most units they will reroll their hits so you can fish for 6's and they have a 1/3 chance to do D3 mortal wounds on death. Meanwhile Bullgors have 7 attacks at rend 2, damage 3 but they hit on 4+ and another 6 attacks on 4's and 4's, no rend, 1 dmg (i.e. nothing). 6's to wound cause a mortal wound, they also do D3 mortals on the charge and have a chance to heal which is nice. So in summary: Skullreapers are tailormade for blending lightly armoured hordes however will struggle to do damage against anything with a decent save unless they spike a bunch of 6's. This is particularly relevant in AOS3 with the save stacking available to many armies while it also seems hordes are not as prevalent as they once were. They still throw a ton of dice and don't need All Out Attack to be effective which means you can save that buff for someone else while the Skullreapers use All Out Defence to be even more survivable. Aside from the regular khorne buffs, they have the mortal keyword and so can benefit from Khorne subfaction bonuses and other buffs unique to mortals such as a bloodstoker to mitigate their slow movement or an Aspiring Deathbringer for even more attacks (could get to 7 attacks each quite easily) but these buffs are not essential for them to do work. Bullgors with their 4+ to hit on only 7 attacks are even more swingy, but with rend 2 they can do decent damage to high armour provided they can hit, although with save stacking rend 2 is not as good as it used to be. At least now in AOS3 you have near guaranteed access to +1 to hit however that means they are stuck with their 5+ save. Also as they are not mortal or daemon they don't synergise with any other available khorne buffs aside from the usual Bloodsecrator, Wrathmongers and prayers. I would say that you need to bring a Doombull to really make them effective which is a valuable hero slot in a khorne army. Overall I think Skullreapers come out ahead but that is reflected in them costing 50 more points at min size. As always do what you like, apply rule of cool and have fun! Thats all that matters 🙂
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