Myrdin

Those Armite models are really really nice Also good thing about Mierce mini, while their regualrd prices are higher than GW, they do 50% off discount quite regularly. Stuff like buy one unit, get one for free and such makes it really worth being subscribed to their newsletter. Thats how I picked up some of their Bestigors. They had 50% off for all metal range miniatures. Mierce mini is definitely a valid choice for us Beastmen players, especially with nice variety of types when you are bored of the cows/goats and horses we normally have and want to add some flavor (Rhinos, Elephants, Dromedars, Bearmen, and whatnot). Edit: Just to forgot to mention, that the size of the Armite is not important. If you have the STl file you can adjust the % scale, so even if they are cavalry sized, you can easily upscale them before printing

I agree on most, yes I think they should have gone with Shaggoth being a Greater Demon equivalent monster for BoC. Lore wise it is pretty much that just in a physical body. Also regarding the allying, I find it super boring that we cant ally in anything but we can "courtesan" ourselves out to all the God Armies en mass. Would have been nice if we could add 1 unit from other Chaos factions per 3/4 of ours. And the limit could increase for units of the God factions if we run their specific God battalion. But I wanted to address this point specifically. The problem is, while it might have been a bandage, it was what kept Beastmen going back then. Personally I think it can be done, albeit in a different fashion. My two MAJOR fixes for BoC that I would do, before touching any unit profiles or price points would be: Primal Fury (can be renamed but why not keep it?): All BoC units gain +1To Hit rolls in the turn they successfully charged or were charged by an enemy unit. Yes a blanked +1 to Hit. Because thats what why struggle with the most. And since Ogres got a permanent blanket +1 to 90% of their army, I really dont think it would be such a big deal. If necessary it can have the "does not apply for units with Monster keyword" limit, (so no 2+ to Hit Ghorghon, although i personally dont think the limitation is necessary) and only for one turn. Bam huge issue we currently have, not gone but at least severely lessened. Ambush: As it is, but > Ambush units can deploy up till turn 4 (why should Shadow Warriors be able to outambush us I do not see). And more importantly: With each subsequent turn, the maximum range you can ambush away from enemy units is reduced by 1 up till turn 4 and the ambushing unit gains +1 to its charge range. Deploying via border edges still applies, no popping from the middle of the table and such. All units with BoC keyword can Ambush (yes ALL so warhound, pigs, cocaktrice, etc and Darkwalkers would merely improve further upon it) So turn 2 you can Ambush up to 8" away from an enemy and gain +1 to charge for the unit coming out of ambush. Turn 3 up to 7" inches and you gain +2 to charge. Turn 4 you get to ambush up to 6" away from the enemy and get +3" to charge rolls. And while it might sound a bit too good, you would still very rarely ambush a unit for more than 2 turns, other than Summons, since our units are quite fast and dont required the Ambush at all... and thats the problem, not requiring it at all, when its supposed to be the core mechanic of the army. But it would totally play into the vibe of the Beastmen army getting ever closer and slowly encircling their enemies in a deadly trap. Thematic, and fairly fun change that would make Ambush actually rewarding for once. If its supposed to be the main rule, make it feel like it has impact. Allow me to ambush bunch of Cockatrice and warhounds and whatnot. Those would be my two tweaks to the Beastmen, unless of course we are going for a complete rework, identity change and overhaul in which case I can easily come up with something more unique. But if we are going by what was, and is, then this is what I would do. Then some profile changes, price changes and a full rework on the Battalions, but more importantly Greatfrays, where keeping but fixing the current 3 while adding at least 2 more would be a thing. But thats just my take on it

This. The problem I see is that rather than go with the CoS route, where most units are good and its up to the player to choose which ones they wish to use in what combination, it seems like with BoC they are adapting a hand holding attitude of force pushing you into what they want you to play, by nerfing things that should really not be nerfed when compared to other nonsense from different armies. Cos has 64 unit profiles and yet only few are truly considered "bad", most of those which are worse and less used are just "meh" but very few are actually bad. With BoC there are several "bad" options, and many "meh" options. I think they need to let go of the reins, follow the original intent and design for the units they had envisioned, make the profiles solid with some synergies open to play around and leave it to the player to choose what and in which combinations they want to play with, rather then forcing it onto them via skewered unit profiles and bad point cost management. Sure some people will try to cheese the ever-living goat out of it if allowed to, but its easier to trim down the power level for balancing once the units are established as fully fledged and useful in their own right, rather than blindly toss them from one side to the other, never letting them settle on what they are actually supposed to be. And again, it can be done. CoS is a good example and the new Orruks and Ogors which are also a WFB styled big bloated armybooks worked out rather nicely. Heck Ogor power level is very high in general. So it absolutely can be done. I wish for the next rewrite the person in charge of it would be someone who actually loves Beastmen, understands both their gamestyle a lore and can take what we have now and flesh it out into perfection. (Plus new BLord, Shaggoth and Centigor models with updated rules reflecting those models would be nice). Honestly the biggest ouch we currently have is the loss of Primal Fury (this rule I think was overlooked in the AoS rewrite as the prime thing that kept BoC going and be somewhat competitive army in the older times, not the Ambush, but this) and very pathetic Ambush, that once again falls flat on how its supposed to be working and utilized by Beastmen players.

@Eorek Really great stuff you made there. Very distinct!

Freeguild guard all the way. From all the other choices, they are affordable yet keep consistent in terms of usefulness both as MSU as well as Big blobs. I always take them. The fact they are universal battle line makes them even more tasty. The ones with halberd in a blob of 40 can be actually pretty scary (they dont need buffs, their skill allows them to be rather self sufficient with greater numbers) and since they are battle line the enemies will either underestimate them, in which case they will deliver a surprise punch for their points/model cost, or overestimate them, in which case they are dedicating much more for a unit that gains them much less. Love them, play them, never leave home with out them!

This. I`ve been saying this for a while now. Gors need to be half naked Bestigors profile wise (since that is what they literally are, just young less seasoned Beastmen who havent earned enough loot yet). 2A 3+ to Wound, and they can go back to 80. Their ability needs to proc on 15+ models instead of 20+, heck even on 10+, so you have some leeway when loosing models to random nonsense. If this was the profile I would be happy to play all my..... what... 60 gors, that never see table in more than a single MSU battle line filler unit at a time ?

So I`ve been thinking, Right now, with all the changes and updates etc etc. If I would like to run Beastmen under one of the other 4 God factions via the battalions, which one of them would give me the most buck ? I seem to remember there were some nerfs here and there due to keywords no longer focusing on the God rather on stuff like "mortal" and "demon". Is it still viable ? And if yes which God gives me the best synergies with the newly gained keyword from the battalion ?

I dont agree with the first paragraph. Why ? Because you are putting all your eggs into one basket > a unit that is not a "one shot one kill" type of unit. Yes you will have a unit of super buff pistoleers. Thats great and all but what can that one unit do ? Even if you ran a unit of 20 to get the maximum millage out of them, at best they delete one unit, two if they multi charge, but at that point its more like "what is it, that they are charging". Just like with any units of this type, its not hard to counter since essentially your opponent is burning through all their CP, spells and what not to get this one unit out there. You lock that unit down with something tough, or annoying and then you clean house and send their entire back line into their model case. And there are absolutely armies that can alfa charge turn one without any issues. Another factor is the footprint of such huge unit of pistoleers. Very easy to lock down and swarm with chaff. On the other hand doing it the way you suggested, running MSU pistollers, buffing them up and shooting them out like suicide kill squads, is honestly extremely turn and energy (CP, spells, artifacts) consuming. You might surprise an enemy with it for the first time you do it, but those small units lack to punching power to outright murder units designed to counter this type of shenanigans. I do however agree with your second paragraph fully. The army is too static, many abilities require a unit to stay put. And as mentioned before, without fairly priced cavalry heroes to run support the strength of our mobile core is not being utilized to its fullest potential.

I think it would be strong but certainly not broken, certain restriction could be imposed regarding the stacking of command abilities and such. (for example: no single ability can be applied more than once on unit for example. And possibly a unit can be affected by 2 command abilities at a time at max.) Its not like many armies out there dont have bunch of Rend -2 units, so as long as particular abilities could not be stacked it should be fine. I really like this army, the theme the concept, and the wide variety of units and possible customization and theme oriented build options. However just as much as I like it, honestly there are 2 thing I hate about this army the most: Stupidly limited Battalions > This should have never been like the way it is. The limitation should have been imposed on the City itself, but not on the units. The battalions are so restrictive in what you can bring. We have around 60 something units profiles, and yet the battalions take into account the only 3-4 very specific units even further limited by OLD FACTION KEYWORDS! This doesn't feel like unified City, this feels like the broken mess of AoS 1 and I truly hate this. Even more so the selection of those units you are forced to bring (The Wanderers Battalion ? Thats hot garbage, no sisters of either type, 0-1 Wild riders, but 3 units of Rangers ? Get out of here with that nonsense!). Second thing that I truly abhor is the banishment of ALL normal cavalry heroes. We have the most cavalry units in a single army out of all the armies, and yet we don't have a single mounted hero who isn't Monster key worded with a 300pts price tag slapped onto it. Where is the General on war horse ? Where is the Dreadlord and Sorceress on Cold ones ? Where is the damn Nomad Prince riding a Deer ? Where are the mounted support heroes to tag along with your cavalry units of which we have abundance, and confer upon them buffs they so badly need ? Nope, none of that. Here take this M5/6 hero and let him chase your cavalry unit because it makes absolute sense. The decision to remove ALL of these cavalry heroes is baffling to no degree to me and makes absolutely no sense, none whats so ever. I love this army, and wish the whole concept of the mini factions integrated and intermingled into a single factions was better done, with more inner army synergy in between individual units, rather than Mini faction by Mini faction. And I hope some person who works on the next version of this Book realizes that having so many mounted units and not a single hero to tag along is a major oversight and they release something like "Mounted Commanders" box with all the old mounted heroes in one box with appropriate warscrolls accordingly. ...Uff sorry went on a tangent there But no I dont think breaking the artificial barriers in between the factions would turn this army into a broken OP mess. The power level would certainly increase, but as long as some sort of limitation was imposed I think the intermingling of individual command abilities in between mini factions keyword would actually be a good step forward.

Thanks for sharing the video. Watched the Table 1 TE vs OB fight, and I think I should build another 10 I have waiting in the box for sure now

Correct. But since both players get to choose one realm its a 50/50 which one you`ll end up unless you decide beforehand (narrative games, campaign or tournament where each table represents a realm come to mind as examples )

with the new realm magic and artifacts changes in the GHB2020 I think Chamon has become quite interesting option for us now. Allows for pushing some of the more beefier units to a 2+ save which is something to consider! Unless MW are involved those 6 chocobo riders with 4W and a magically buffed up to 2+ save (and possibly a pha`s protection in place) can become quite the anvil that also at the same time acts like a small hammer. Makes me much more interested in trying a bigger unit of them, or maybe even Drakespawn knigts as the budget moving wall option might be a thing to consider.

Is that -1 from Pha`s Protection ?

Just out of curiosity but with the price increase to Battlemages do you think there will be an updated warscroll to reflect the new update to the Realms ? Some of the spells have clearly changed (chamon is much more interesting now tbh). Logically you would say that these should replace the ones the Battlemages have on their warscrolls, but the question is, do you think GW will do it ? Since they very rarely updated Warscrolls outside of when the whole book is released for individual army...

Hmmm..... Ok. I did enjoy running two battlemages and took sorceress only rarely. I think this will change positions now. 10 points ? Maybe, 20 ? Hell no! Not really into Stormcast, before I go that way I want to first fully flesh this army in every aspect so that It can stand on its own two legs. But this begs something to consider since I`ve already been pondering of getting one or two Balistas due to our artillery being garbage. And on the note of our horrible, pathetic artillery, looking at the points.... it stays the same. As do our monster mounted spellcasters and Luminark (I dont think Hurricanum should be more expensive, the price is fair for what you get when compared to other armies). Shame really. Corsairs and Flagelants remains the same piece of trash they always were (admittedly corsair can be made to work in SOME niche scenarios like against Nighthaunt where rend is really not a thing.). Overall I think this has changed little and addressed none in greater scheme of things. The meta will not shift, nor will the non meta reliable builds. As Dekay said above, only difference is that chariot spam will turn into chariot support and I am fine with that to be honest, although I think they should have instead lowered the cost of the Drakespawn one. Should have been +10 pts on Scourge runner -10 pts on drakespawn. As per usual it seems that the price changes executed did little to address the issues with some units, not only never seeing the table, but them not even being a thing to consider in the first place ever (Flagellants anyone ? No ? Ok *sad face meme). Elite infantry dropping in points mean only one thing > we are being pushed towards more hoardy approach. I actually did have good success using Executioners against Nighthaunts as a budget MW infantry. With those 30 pts shaved off, I`ll be even happier in taking them. I am not sure what to think of these points adjustments. It seems to me like the person who did the final decision doesnt really know anything about this army and the whole thing is more like hit and miss hoping it sticks than anything. But hey, at least there were no serious price hikes other than the Battle mage so thats good.

I like the conversion, though the arms look a bit flimsy for such massive weapon. Especially when compared to the bottom half. But in general it looks impressive and I am sure will be quite intimidating once fully painted *thumbsup* Regarding the Profile page, its kinda all over the place, the description makes little sense and the abilities are also not written in the format how GW tends to word their rules. I would look into a bit more. Regarding the stats personally I think those front claws should be 4+ 3+ - 2, just going be sheer bulk of that thing. Also the range should be 2 maybe even 3" on the great hammer and 2" on the tail. Weapons need some adjustments. Basically: the concept is good, its neat you build a model to represent it, all it needs is some polishing and adjustments so that it feels more cohesive.

Absolutely go for it! In regards to scale, for my light cavalry units (Pist, Out, DarkR) I am using the Samurai Cavalry from Warlord games. And those models are visibly smaller when put next to the regular Warhammer scale models. But I found out as long as they are painted, on properly sized base they still hold up next to the other stuff. Especially if you put some extra effort into the base. Some sand, grass and rocks can make it really pop out and draw away from the visually smaller scaled model on top of it

There are some quite nice options for proxi dragon ogors. Personally I am using this one: He fits nicely on the DAS base, and I converted my other DA with Cold One heads to give off more reptilian vibe and thus be more truthful to the "Dragon" part in their name. There is even larger, more beefy and bad ass version of this guy, but that one goes on 120mm base minimum, so thats not really an option. Ofc. there is bunch of different conversion out there on the internet, some of them are really well done so I recommend browsing a little to see what you like and what you could potentially recreate for your own use

I have not heard of this being an issue even in 40K. Heck there was a guy who painted his Khorne Berserkers blue.... First and foremost this is a hobby, that utilizes plastic miniatures painted in any way you deem fit. If you want to paint a unit Stormcast in black and silver to fit alongside your Black Templar army (example) you are free to do so and no one can really say a thing. More troublesome thing is with conversions and proxies, but as long as the model represents what it is supposed to be you should be fine. I mean heck, my army is a good example of this. So far no one complained about me running a fully aesthetically themed Nippon/Cathay army. Although I guess some complaints might come when I start playing Gyrocopters/Bombers. Finally got a good proxy equivalent to use but since those are Smaller Dragons that fit on the base I guess some confusion in the beginning might happen 😛

I think you just want to stick it.... Slaanesh noises intensify

Just go Khorne and cherry pick the units from BoC that you want. BoC do better in almost every other Chaos God army out there than in their own (not sure about Nurgle) and with the buffs and abilities from those armies our fairy cheap and mobile stuff can punch high above its own grade.

Funny of you mentioning this. It made remember all the artwork and the Malus Darkblade book series. The drakespawn should definitely be bigger and more ferocious than what they are. Maybe not the size of Chocobos on regular basis, but I remember that Malus mentioning in the book that the breeding process resulted in different hatchling. His own... Scorn was its name ? ...or something like that, was a smaller breed when compared to other Cold Ones, but instead it was smarter and more cunning then its brood kin. Meanwhile his Lieutenant had one of the biggest Drakespawn in the company that towered over his own. Regardless of the size a Raptor of such a size should be be able to pose quite considerable threat on their own and as such its a pity they are not up the task regarding their rules (buffing the to Wound to 3+ and adding a -1 Rend would make the Cold Ones, however even after the Seraphon update there has been no change to Cold Ones in general which is a shame).

Thanks @Kaleun for at ment. me I didnt even know these girls are already out. Will definitely snatch one box for myself. The Hag Queen with spear is absolutely stunning! The Melusai and SoS are fairly good too. The two WE are very dissappointing miniatures though. They looks like they got hit by a sledgehammer and turned into witch dwarfs instead of elfs. @Gotz I am sorry to say, but the Archer is nigh unplayable in Warcry. I tried a lot of different setups, but her statline is just bad.... so bad (like all the elite DoK units in Warcry) that for those point I phased her out and replaced her with a Slaughter Queen, who can at least pull her own weight. The 1 to 6 chance to actually do something while fun when it happens makes extremely unreliable and feels just like a points sink, even in friendly matches. (2A S3 DMG1/5 is a really bad statline for such a model that costs some odd 170pts). Anything the Stalkers can do, the Sister do better, and even the sisters are amongst the low tier elite units out there, even when compared so some native Warcry ones. But to be honest I havent played my DoK warband. With more and more old armies getting their own, the balance is getting more broken than ever and DoK are one of the worst warbands I have played so far (I have BoC who are really fun to play, their abilities are meh, but the stats are fairly reliable, from natives I got the Cabal which is very fun as well, though lot of their skills are terrain dependent.). My girls will most likely see table only against native Warcry armies where the stat line is more tame, unless they receive an update in the future warcry books with some noticeable improvement to the Khinerai and Melusai. But regarding the underworld warband > they will have their AoS rules so that makes them usable outside of Warcry and I really like that HQ with spear.

There has been a lot of talk in this forum about alternative miniatures to give your CoS army different flavor and aesthetics. I just got this in my newsletter feed and though I`d share it with you guys. Someone might find it interesting for their thematic CoS project.

The top one is too much scifi-esque in my opinion. If you would want to go with the second one, why not just get Wildwood ranger heads instead? they pretty similar if not the same aesthetics as these ones.