Myrdin

"You get a Doombull!, You get a Doombull! Everybody gets a mf Doombull! There`s plenty of Doombulls for everyone!"

>___> <___< T___T (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ ...correct

These are exactly the synergies we lack. But not just for Brayherds, this used to be army wide even before this. Honestly we need this back and be army wide once more. This would do wonders for Bullgors, Centigors and Dragon Ogors who each have two weapon profiles. Especially Bullgors who are supposed to be the hammer would benefit from this greatly.

No you didnt, dont worry. This was back before AoS when the game was still called WFB - Warhammer Fantasy Battles. And as to what we lost: In close combat, the unit takes a Ld test and if successful, gets hatred for the round. If the unit passes on a double 1, they get hatred AND frenzy for the rest of the round (Known as Primal Frenzy instead). Not sure if you were around back then but to put it into current ruleset terms: Unit takes Bravery test. If passed the unit can re-roll failed to Hit rolls. If the test was passed on the roll of double 1s you get re-roll to Hit and +1Attack instead. Back then Leadership was two digit number and when taking tests you rolled two dices instead of one that is used for Battleshock tests now. Since you were rolling two dice the chances to fail were higher so in general the value itself was also higher (Beastmen had I believe LD9 on the Beastlord, which is something unthinkable for BoC in AoS ). Every unit with this rule could do this at the start of the turn, and yes sometimes you failed despite your Beastlord taking an artifact to improve his LD to 10 and having a Hero with Banner close who allowed you to reroll. I remember this from one of my games. Rolled for a unit of bestigors. The roll was 11, rerolled for 12 haha, I think it was a crucial roll that might have costed me the game back then XD. There was also an artifact, I think it was the Crown of Horns that allowed the unit the Hero was attached to to auto pass its Primal Fury test so you could at least guarantee one unit to always have this, but the trade off was that you could never get the extra attacks from rolling snake eyes on that roll since you didnt roll. Might be remembering this incorrectly, but I think I got the gist of it right. If not I am sure @Popisdead will correct So if you think about the fact our army hits in 4+ mostly, this rule was what kept Beastmen going back then. It was what allowed this army to be somewhat competitive since the re-roll was quite a big thing. If we had this now, as an army wide rule like it used to be (it did exclude stuff like razorgors and harpies, but no chariots though). This army would be on entirely different level. We would be much deadlier in combat and could deal with negatives effects to Hit rolls much easier. The whole "take leadership test" part would most likely have to be taken out, but I could imagine it be like "roll a die, on 3+ you get this. If you roll a 6 you get the stronger version". More streamlined version would be if it gave just flat +1 to Hit for the turn instead of the re-roll. Would speed up the game, sure since less dice rolls, but its more boring if you ask me.

I have said this for a long time now. This army lacks in synergies. We have no integral buffs, no worthwhile command abilities no nothing. And on top of that the individual warscrolls do not perform to the standard individual unbuffable units should. Ambush is still a crappy skill that gets outdone by any other army that Ambushes (Ghost do better, DoK Harpies do better, CoS Shadow Warriors do better... like do I have to keep on going ?). Its a worthless army ability that doesnt offer anything and has again 0 synergy. Beastmen Ambush should be feared, it should be miles better than anyone else at ambushing. Bonus to charges and further and further up the table the longer the game goes on. Loss of Primal Fury is hurting like hell because there was no replacement done in its stead, and you can say it was a bandaid by Phil Kelly all you want, when in the end it was the one thing that kept Beastmen relevant. Now we lost it and you can really feel all the 4+ to Hit. All it takes is for an enemy that reduces the hit chance and this army hits like a wet noodle. And if they can stack this effect ? Its GG. The army has good theme and ideas but all of them are half baked. Ambush needs to have weight, and if we dont get Primal Fury to bolster the combat phase itself we should get a Army wider Run and Charge for EVERYTHING in this book. That should be the theme with Beastmen. They are not super killy, nor they are super tough, but they are fast as hell and anything they put on the table can be on you turn 1, 2 at max. That would also free up tha Musicians in the units to do something else for the unit. Army wide Run and Charge as the main army rule, bunch of warscroll updates, synergies, reworked Greatfrays and Battalions as well as the way we interact with rest of Chaos. The right way is how CoS does it. For every X of our units we can take 1 unit of the Battalion selected God army. Not just lend our stuff out, but also be able to ally stuff in. Some of the Individual warscroll are fine, but others are utter trash (Dragon Ogors are a joke. No way these are ancient beings that have lived through end times. Monster dont have any wieght to them and you bring them for the models instead of the unit itself). Some warscrolls just need some loving (Bullgors more attacks to really make it count. They lost Frenzy which gave them extra attack, and they also dropped in attacks per base in general. Gors needs some tuning up, etc). Some need a shift in how they are accessible (Warhounds need to be Battleline to be even remotely worth it as they are now. Centigors could use a complete rework and split into two differently equipped units). Some warscrolls as the mentioned Cygor need to be completely redesigned and their identity crisis needs to be resolved once and for all. I like the idea of them tossing boulders, thats fine, but they should also punch as a Gorghon does > they are still a giant creature with immense strength. Plus they need to do something related to magic. I like the idea of them devouring endless spells, and reacting to enemy magic casts in range. .... no I actually love. I absolutely love the idea guys! The more I think about it and imagine a Cygor just reaching down and munching on a endless spell the more the idea is endearing to me. Gorghon needs to be a thing of terror. Right now it hits like a wet ****** on a sunday morning. Rend -1 ? 5 Attacks ? Really ? This thing needs at least Rend -2 and 6 attacks at the bare minimum. And some form of rampage where it generates more attacks as it gets wounded. Also... where are Feral Manticores ? Also the inclusion of new beasts like Raptorix and what not. Its all in the fluff, so maybe not the Sphinx but Raptorix and the Ogroids should be accessible. Again all it takes is just a line or two of updated fluff for them to fit in. Basically this army, in its entirety is NOT HARD to fix. Really it isnt. But the problem is it never got the good look at, nor the love and interest of the writers. What we need first and foremost is for the next person writting it to fully embrace the Beast of Chaos life style, understand the flaws and the advantages this army has to offer. To understand the theme and what is the true potential of these units and how they should act and react on the table. Basically we need a person who likes Beastmen, and has the appreciation and understanding of this army yet does not fear to take them and polish them. Heck I think no one would complain if once in what... 12 years is it ? the beastmen would be actually borderline OP. Not broken, but just very strong army. Last time we had this was when we still used mixed skirmish units of Gors and Ungors shortly after being split away from general Chaos. Example: Ogor Mawtribes. This army was mediocre at best. Then the big rework came that gave them bunch of new models and very very strong ruleset. This was still back in Warhammer Fantasy times. Now in AoS not only they recreated the old Ogors but they put them on steroids. Not once but twice. Not only most of them now have 3+ to hit instead of 4+ which was the staple, they also got the new rule that makes them much more faster than Ogors have any right to be, and basically unbreakable in combat as far as unit Leadership goes. The 3+ to hit was more then enough but this rule was over the top since it completely negates one of their weaknesses which was speed. The person who wrote this. We need that person for Beastmen. Someone with guts who isnt afraid to take this army and do what works. But I rest my case, this has been said hundred of times already. We will see whether then next BoC book will be an improvement or disappointment.

That would make no sense both lore nor model wise. We are talking about half naked goats with save equal to fully head to toe armored Stormcast demigods. All the gors really need is 3+ to wound and the passive ability to start at 10+ like other races infantry units do, instead of 20+ and we are good (meaning unit of 10+ would always have 2A until there is less goats than 10).

I wonder which bits all across AoS and possibly 40K would fit as replacements for their pincer arms though. The sleek elongated type of limbs these fellas have... I am not sure whether there is anything that could in their place. I mean they do remind of Tyranid Warrior limbs, so they might work but with those you would have the chitin plating pop out quite a lot (could be painted as armor I suppose). Now that being said, it doesnt have to be the entirety of the army, I think cutting it off in the elbow to remove the pincer should suffice, but if there is a whole fitting arm, it might be easier to work it into from the shoulder joint rather than cutting into it. Can you figure out any fitting replacement from other kits for those pincer arms ?

I feel ya. They are kinda... lacking ? Dissapointing ? I mean so much could have been done, and when I saw these my first thought was "these are really kinda ugly and bland. The sculpt is also gonna be hard to customize. Thats gonna need a LOT of effort and greenstuff to pull of anything decent".

So... gentlemen I am surprised there was no discussion about the new Hedonites and the full unit of Slaangor Fiendbloods. I said before > I wont get hyped unless there is a whole unit with BoC compatible keyword. So far the first part is real the second not yet confirmed but if they are going the Tzaangor route then maybe we might see them included in our armies. No character yet shown so far, but I hope they will have one Slaangor commander of their own, to mirror the Tzan Shaman. Now this actually does give me some hope that we might indeed see Khorngors and Pestigors in the future as well. The whole Slaanesh release was kinda random though since its not that long this armybook was released (in its broken OP state). I wonder if the reason for such a swift re-release was to fix the issues with the army without FAQ as well as bolster the sales of the new models. Anyway here is the whole unit: Never was a fan of the whole Pincer thing they started pushing for Slaanesh, so IF we can have them I think I`ll have to work around that and get them fitted out with something else. But with those proportions it will be kinda hard to replace them with fitting bits. Hope there are some other customizable options in the box. A hand with weapon like the unit leader has for example.

He looks very nice! I`ve been thinking about getting one or two of the Zaelot miniatures bulls myself as I am not satisfied with my current DB stand in and lately I dont have the energy nor motivation to convert one from the Ogre Thaumaturge mini.

Hmm and he still has 4+ to hit... Yeah you would expect if any other Beastmen would be better at hitting it would be the Slaanesh marked ones... Honestly thats not a horrible profile, but its just one dude. While cool and all, unless I see some major shift in keywords or a box of Slaangors (ala Tzaangors style) usable by Slaanesh and BoC both, I am not getting my hopes up. It would be nice, but GW has F* over this army specifically so many times already that I just dont care until its set in stone. Yes STILL salty about the Warcry monsters not being allowed into Beastmen Herds. I cant even T___T

Been a while since I posted into the CoS forum but I bear some good news for people who have been wanting to do something more unique with their CoS. My favorite "non cannon Warhammer factions" company Titan Forge is releasing yet another KS after the success of their Amazons. This time its inspired by the Warhammer Araby, and these models are absolutely amazing. This also opens up some options for a crossover with LotR Haradrim, which have smaller scale, but you could possibly add the Camels, and the Mumakil from that range and convert them into further units. So yeah, some amazing new models on the horizon for all of you who would like to give your city a specific look and theme

So lads. It seems there might be a possible Slaanbull on the horizon. GW just had their update notice, with bunch of new stuff (mostly for 40K) but for AoS Sigvald is getting a pretty darn nice new model with lot of potential for conversions. Plus a warband of his own for Warcry. But thats not why I am writing this comment. On the pic of his warband, in the background there seems to be a some sort of minotaur miniature. However it doesnt seem like any of the current line. Could it possibly be a Slaanbull ? Unlike the other Warcry monsters that we do not get becasue "*insert bunch of nonsense and stupid reasoning why not, that doesnt really work (yes I am still salty we cant use those warcry beasties as regular BoC units)*", I dont think they would deny us aces to this one if it indeed is a Slaanbull in all its glory (hope its rules are not Slaanesh only, but work for BoC as well). But what do you think ?

Basically, even if we disagree on the role I think we all can agree on the fact that Gors need help. I mean I personally would absolutely love for Gors to get 9/12" throwing weapons, they could chug at the opponent, and a Rule that would allow them to do so when Charging or being Charged. Add to that one extra attack in combat (let say they stay at 4+ Wounds as they are) and you have a fun to use unit that can fill in several roles. Then again, I am also someone who thinks Centigors should have access to the same bows as Ungors do, but with a point of rend to its name. Because, centaurs with bows are cool thats why (or two split profiles with different points cost. Something like Centigor Marauders, and Centigor Hunters. One more combat oriented, the other ranged skirmish cavalry) Be it as it may, there are few units that struggle with their identity in our Book. Gors are one of them. Whatever it might be, I hope the update of this book in a far distant future will be a good one, and these boy will find their place back on the battlefield once more... heck I have 60 of them just sitting there collecting dust... discounting those few I bring for games of Warcry, so yeah I would absolutely love to field them. As I would like to do with other units in similar positions.

You are completely disregarding everything that Bestigors do, what their role is, as well as their stat line in your comment. Gors get buffed, go pack to 80 pts. Now they wound on 3+ and can get extra attack and hit with numbers. Bestigors are still better even if Gors are buffed, because they have superior stat line from the get go regardless of numbers, have a charge bonus, have rend and higher save. However the most distinct difference is that unlike Gors, for Bestigors the most efficient way of running them these days is MSU. With gors you want the bodies to create a padding that can soak hits. Complete opposite of what you want to do with Gors. The problem is that Gors do not grind. Like not even a little bit. Even tanky units need to be able to kill at least something in their weight category. Gors dont do that. The Gor issue IS resolved with simple buffs. You dont need to rewrite the entire warscrol into something completely different. Gors always worked they way they were designed ever since warhammer fantasy days. The problem with the current Gors is they lost extra attacks from paired weapons, their passive is a bad joke that scale to late for it to count (to late as in with too many numbers, where even one loss makes it no longer function). What GW did with dropping their price to 70 was only a hot fix not actual consideration what is wrong with the unit. Its the same with Gorebulls. They need a buff to be the beefy hammer they were always intended to be, not be a cheap pseudo elite wannabe unit.

This. Have been advocating for them being just naked Bestigors, with easier access to their passive buff from the start. I would say for their Passive buff something like: "If 10 or more +1A, if 20 or more +1 To Hit in addition to that". Simple effective and makes them worth running both as MSU and as blobs, since with bigger numbers they are subject to more enemy debuffs many of which in the game target Hit rate of units so this would compensate for that nicely.

So in one of the manga I am reading, there was a Greater Demon in the form of a Beastman: ) Has just the right amount of savegery, but at the same time those two long blades give it much more "high class" look. Like a deadly blade master. I REALLY dig the design of this monster, though the horns could be bigger or multiple of the long mane like hair reminds me of how I modeled my own Beastlord. Since I think its pretty cool picture I just wanted to share it with you guys. A Beastmen DP or a greater Demon just about tingles my fancy.

I hope we dont get a new book for a good while.... We`ve always been amongst the first armies to come out and it NEVER worked out for us. Always half assed rules, and conflicting warscroll. Gimmick battalions and un usable artifacts. I would prefer much for the filth and confusion of new edition releases to first filter out properly, and this time let some other armies be the lab rats before we are introduced into the fray. At least once in my 10 years of collecting this army I would like to get the treatment some of the more popular armies are getting. Just once. Some new models to replace the ancient miniatures we still have (Shaggoth, Beastlord, Centigors, Razorgor....). Nice thick, packed battle tome with SOLID rules, GOOD warscrols where each unit has some potential on the field and is not ignored for better options. FUN synergy between the units and the army abilities and allegiances, etc etc. As long as we are not within the first 5 new releases we should be fine, maybe, possibly....

Care to share a pic with us Pop ?

16 Cockatrice ?! Hahaha ! That sounds amazing I wish we could use Raptorix with our keyword, so you could use them instead of those ungors and go full Angry chicken swarm XD I love this so much. I need to test something like this just for the heck of it!

Well that is some interesting news. Thanks for sharing. A Slaangor.... hoped, but never believed I`d see the day this happens. Now if only there would be a full unit > possibly a multi kit ala Engl/Skyfire follow up shortly after (and have the BoC keyword and be also added for us outright as an option). Possibly one Slaangor hero. Tzaangor is a fast tzaan aura buff caster, so the Slaangor hero, if it would happen could be like a fast nimble duelist great at taking down big ugly stuff (multi wound MW attacks on specific rolls for example)

Personally I am a huge fan of any new Beastmen types. And while God-Gors are not exactly "new" per say, I always kept my hopes to see this Great 4 affiliated Bestigors make a comeback. And yet, Khorne came and went... no Khorngors. Slaanesh came and went and no Slaangors.... So yeah, I dont hold much hope to ever see them. I am grateful for Tzaangors, since its finally something else then cows, goats and horses. And I also like Tzeentch stuff so there`s that. Honestly I abhor the fact that the points costs must be unified through out the Alliegances. Why cant Tzaangors be 200 in DoT book and 160 in our book where the synergy is MUCH less volatile than in their native battle tome ? (140 was too low, 200 is too much. Same with Skyfires. At worst they both should be at 180, although I could see Enlightened at 160 and Skyfires at 180). Its just stupid and it really killed some of the comps we had going on due to the massive points inflation. I would like for Harpies to make a return. Yes we have super fast Centigors but having fly does help a lot. They could use same rules like those Warcry Devils for all I care. All in all, I just hope when the new edition comes and Tomes are reworked again, we wont be the first. This happened a lot in WFB and now in AoS as well and our army always suffers from it. For once let us come later once the new power shift has settled and let us ride the wave of solid, engaging and fun, instead of mediocre and subpar every single time.

IF Morghur were to return, I would like for him to be a really really beefy, mean "sun of a bi...goat!" While I would be happy to see ANY character for Beastmen so that we have at least something interesting to play with as well as finally getting a named character of our own.... Personally I never cared for him that much. I was always a big fan of our other characters, even those that had great concept but never saw neither a model of their own nor actual use on the table. For nostalgia sake, these are the memories of the Beastmen Armybook when I started this hobby and my Beastmen: I always liked Khazzrak the one Eye! Cunning beyond belief, not merely by instinct but by the fact he learned the ways of his pray, adapted and overcame them. A bad ass duelist and a Beastmen leader who utilized actual tactics when fighting, and also the only Beastmen to ever wear a full plate armor and swing a round a blade whip! Malagor the Dark Omen! The Crow father! The Greatest Shaman alive, bringer of doom for all that is civilization on his mighty black feathered wings! The prophet of the Dark Gods! (and look what happened to him now... they clipped his wings and sell him as regular Bray Shaman...) Gorthor the Beastlord! This is THE one greatest Beastlord that ever lived! He who united the biggest herd the old world has ever seen (outside the grand Chaos Invasions lead by *spits on the ground* the oh soo great Chaos Warrior Chosen lords, long they be damned baaaaah!). So Impressive was he in fact he had his own coach (chariot pulled by a very angry, yet admitteldy kinda cute named Razorgor ) and his own Coachman (yop he had his own personal coachman who was taking care of the ride while he was stabbing everyone with his spear). Gorthor the one who hunted down and killed a unicorn lord and then paraded its head around as a trophy! Many legends were sung of his exploits in the feasts around many Herdstones around the world. Ghorros Warhoof - The Beast Father! Sire of 1000 young! The most drunk and horny daddy goat horse you`ve ever seen! He`s been alive for a very long life as far as not just beastmen but other races as well are included, And when you live that long you of course crave for some creature comfort! So horny he was in fact that many of the strange creatures roaming the world, not just centigors are of his bloodline. He is the only character in our army that had his own retinue of loyal bad ass bodyguards called "Sons of Ghorros". Taurox the Brass Bull - This absolute rage filled monster of a Doombull personally defeated and DEVOURED a mighty Chaos Demon possessing a mortal body! This was so impressive and amusing to the Ruinous powers, mostly Khorne that is (hence Brass), the he was cursed/blessed with a body that turned into a living furnace of which the skin turned into hardened Brass! Albeit since the big 4 are all bunch of Aholes, he was left with one squishy spot under his head, kinda imitating the legendary Achiles. Should someone strike that place and run a blade through the monstrous bull would be slain outright. Only the blood of his enemies could momentarily soothe the burning pain and rage that filled his inside as he cut swathes through the lines of his enemies with two mighty axes! Slugtongue - Blessed by Nurgle, this shamans very presence wilted and withered those enemies that dared to approach him. Unlike most of our characters back in the day, he was actually somewhat playable and could be used on the table without having a massive handicap that felt like shooting yourself in the foot while your hands were bound behind your back, that most of our characters had back in the day (rules vs price being the cause). And my personal favorite that seeps with amazing potential but it never got to see the light of the day: Moonclaw Son of Morshlieb, on mighty Umbralok! A beastmen born out of the raw energies of Chaos itself on the Chaos moon of Morshlieb. He who slammed into the old world in the form of bright burning Comet, riding a massive two headed beast and heralding the end of all things and the inevitable new Age of Chaos! Moonclaw is the closest thing for a Warp demon to permanently manifest itself within the mortal world. He is however not a demon and does not answer to any of the gods (possibly Malal, considering he is Chaos of Chaos sake ). Moonclaw represents Chaos itself, in all its horrible glory! And yet this character never had a model, nor good rules, but cost an arm and a leg to field in an army back in the day. So much lost potential in terms of characters it really breaks my heart just thinking about what they did. Thats why I say GW never really loved Beastmen as an army, because you can see the lack of care and interest. Honorable mentions: Kolek Sun Eater - The oldest Shaggoth alive, the size of a mountain, whose mere shout can lay low entire armies of mortals. (Admittedly he never was part of Beastmen army since Beastmen split from Chaos and became their own playable thing). Ghosteater: The unique lion headed Beastlord who had the strange ability to devour the souls of slain enemies and absorb their memories. This character appeared in a novel and I was really impressed with him. It was the natural evolution of a Beastlord. Thanks to his mind being lifted due to the souls he devoured he understood that Beastmen are just a laughing stock and a tool used and discarded by other Chaos Forces. And he HATED it. THIS is what I love about him! He was cunning, he was smart, but most importantly.... he understood and had a VISION for a new future for Beastmen! In the book he plays the Chaos Lord leader of a local chaos fortress for a fool and his clan shows them the long end of the horn. Angor Wildmane Chosen of the Beast God - My own Beastlord whom I painstakingly converted and had painted by someone with better skill than mine. Have a whole lore thought for him and his herd (my Beastmen basically). Will share some of it since I am at it A mysterious Beastlord who has been uniting herds all across, regardless of what type of Beastmen they are. Unexpectedly calm and collected, he carries with the might and domineering respect of the Beastlords of Old myths and legends whose names are known only through stories spoken by the pyre under the Herdstone. Sometimes he feels old, ancient even. His signature name stems from his long flowing hair that seems to have a life of its own, each strand strong as a steel wire he is often seen using it if it was additional limb or two. He and through him his Herd as well despise the Ruinious Powers hate being treated as tools, despite being the direct children of Chaos in the mortal world. So much in fact they prefer to engage into fights where the Forces of Chaos and Order clash, lending a hand to the surprised worshipers of Sigmar. On some occasions they even saved caravans and people from the Cities when under attacked in what the herd considered its territory. However not free of charge. Not much is known about his herd only that they worship something they call "The Great Beast God". The doctrine they subscribe is strength through survival. Adapt and overcome. Unlike other Beastmen they dont perceive civilization as antithetic to their beliefs, although they still do sneer at the weakness the giant wall cities invite. Their weapons and armor upon inspection unveil signs of proper forging and actual craftsmanship. His herd shows signs of structure and gives a sense of primitive and simplistic yet surprisingly functional society, rather than a rubble held together by the will of the strong like other herds. He is often seen to ride into battle atop a razorgor pulled chariot and accompanied by his trusted Bannerman a former Beastlord of his own, whose herd was the first to join in one with Angors. His tough, muscular body is covered in a durable armor of dark steel plates that has seen him through countless battles. And while his rune enchanted axe is scary, his signature weapon is a massive shield of black Iron with a strange metal casted wolf head adorning it. Whenever the stream of magic gets thick the deep dark holes on the wolf head sculpture start to glow bright red the more magic it devours. Picture of Angor and my metal BL converted into BSB - Battle Standard Beaer (which also no longer exists because BoC cant have nice things AoE aura buffs ). Nowaydays I use him as Banner carrier when running a big block of Bestigors. Ahhh... this brought back some sweet memories :3

They can Run and Charge from the get go if you include the horn blower, so the CP is necessary only if you fail the charge But other than TShaman, none of the other characters will be ale to keep up with them so giving them that CP might be a bit more troublesome than it would at first appear.

Whats that? Concept Art Design ? I would love new Centigors, the ones I converted from Chaos horses and Mierce miniature Beastmen are very nice and bulky (the MM Goat type Beastmen are slightly more bulky and tiny bit bigger than GW ones) for what they are, yet still give the vibe of a being swift on their feet (hooves). Only reason I dont play more of them is because the conversion process is slow and cumbersome. Still have a box of SoThorn waiting to be converted into female Centigors and somehow just cant get myself into the mood of doing it (admittedly I am spending more time with my CoS now, since BoC just isn't fun for me anymore due to the massive power gap with many armies that I face). When I get the mood to kitbash I am trying to finish my Beastmen Demon Prince conversion (almost done!), and hash out the remaining 3 DragOgs with cold one heads.