Myrdin
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They are Battleline with both BL and Shammy. As I wrote in the highlighted text I am not taking Ungors because I dont want to but because I dont have them at hand., so swapping them in is not an option. I will consider the Gnarllblade Beastlord, but honestly at these points I dont wanna bother with Greatfrays at all tbh. Plus that one model is quite powerful and I dont wanna be "That guy" who brings something like that into a small scale game. Granted there will be some people trying to squish in as much cheese as humanly possible but I dont want to be like that.
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So we are planning on doing 2v2 mini tournament of pairs. 1000pts each player. Vanguard, max pts limit for units 250 (judged on individual bases in regards with the army and rest of your units). No battalions, No endless spells. Realms artifacts allowed. So here is what I am planning to bring. Nothing overly cheesy, but not without the teeth to bite: 2x Shaman. Knowing Eye, Wild Rampage and Vicious Strangle thorns (Herdstone Shammy) 10 Gors with shields 2x10 Bestigors 2x5 Centigors 1x Razorgor 6x Enlyghtened on Discs (280 pts) *Instead of the Pig and gors I could have gone 2x10 Ungors, but ... I dont have them on me atm. All my ungors went to a buddy of mine to "catch some colors" if you catch my drift. Thus Gors and Piggy chan will have to pick up the slack of sacrifices and back up objective holders. The Tzaangors are the only unit over the unit limit, but so far I have not heard that being an issue from the Org. As said above, the its judged on unit per unit per army individual bases. And as such some people are bringing as much cheese as is possible to cram into those 1K lists and unit limits, thus maybe because of that there was no objection on my list so far. Not really sure which Warlord Trait to pick. Also not bringing any Greatfrays, as I think, in a small format like this they dont offer as much value as with 1500+pts non battalion restricted games. Was shortly considering going with Allherd (shocking I know...), but you need the Eye for that, to get those extra CP > Summoning points. And for that you need a Battalion since you are forced to take that garbage artifact Allherd forces upon you. I know people here had some degree of success with 1K Summoning lists, and I was wondering if you could share some insight in how you built them.
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Nah, I get you guys. Its just that I am very salty about the fact that we cant even use Monsters of Chaos, which honeslty has no actual balance, The monster Arcanum is what it is, and none of the monsters are essential for an army, rather they are cool extras. The whole issue I have with this alliance nonsense is that > They can take our stuff for super uber combos, but we cant take theirs. They can play with our toys, but we cant with theirs..... I know life aint fair, but come on now.... Clearly nobody cared about balance when they allowed the other Chaos armies to bring Beastmen, but suddenly we care when Beastmen could be taking stuff from the other armies ? (and its just 400 pts of allies anyways, you can get some synergy going for sure, but its not gonna break the game.). Its just the blatant double standard (and the extreme overbalancing our battletome received with some of the stuff.) that grinds my gears. Lets see how the unified SoD book turns out. Since they are our only allies I am invested a little in their well being.
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For some reason the BoC community is unable to stir enough noise to get the obvious Plot Hole of our Allies fixed via a FAQ or any update. Its literally editing one to two lines in the book via a FAQ. >No Monsters of Chaos > While we have several units from the Monsters of Chaos Roster (and lets be honest the bloody Preyton fits the BoC theme unlike any other) >No Chaos God allies > Beastmen, the mortal manifestation of Chaos, who worship all 4 as just different aspects of a more primordial form of Chaos and Anarchy, and have been part of Chaos Armies since they were first introduced are not able to bring in any units from other Chaos God armies....whoever it was that let this thing slip by unnoticed should be temporarily laid off, as this is a move of inconceivable incompetence and not understanding of very lore you are working on. An "ally" to BoC can be a powerful Chaos champion, mortal or demon who leads the masses of Beastmen. That would make sense withing the confine of the limited Points you can dedicate to an ally slot in every army. >Now ful disclaimer > no Skaven allies, thats fine, no problem with that, But Khorne, Nurgle and Tzeentch (Slaaneshis, dont have their own book still, but once they have, they should be also included.) dedicated armies should be a thing in our Allies options. This whole thing just reeks of mismanagement and not understanding the very army you are writing and how it interacts with the universe. Sure you can represent a fragment of beastmen who are dedicated to a God via the battalions but as mentioned above, You should also be able to represent a powerful chaos entity leading purely beastly armies to bring chaos, mayhem and anarchy to the civilized lands.
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Uff, that list seems awfully lacking in heavy hitters. What is your plan with it ? Coz this seems to me like "bog the enemy down, and take objectives" type of list, however it lacks the punching power to take on anything thats a Horde slayer, and keep the pressure up. Things like dragons and monsters of that type will murder the units within a turn or two, since the Battleshock will be brutal regardless of what you do (unless you plan to burn those extra CP on it of course). and even without battleshock, stuff like Gors and Ungors aint getting through a 14W 4+ monster anytime soon. I mean Bestigors are great and Ungor raiders are not to be underestimated, especially with the Battalion you are running, but while they are good at starting a momentum and grind through, they are easy to counter, and once stopped you have nothing else thats even remotely scary in that list. Also I am a bit unsure about the prismatic palisade. With the massive ground you need to cover due to the sheer bulk of your army, that palisade wont do much since there is no way you can fit anything of value behind. ..... Ok well maybe a Shaman or two, with bunch of Herdstone sacrifices, but I doubt your opponent would be targeting those, considering the swarm of bodies thats pushing onto them. The way I could see this work would be dropping the palisade and a unit of Paired weapon Gors, and getting more Bestigors, in any configuration. While not the most elite of elites, they are just scary enough to be able to grind their way through most fights, or at least severely bleed the attacker. #BestyBoys!
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Thanks for the list. Good lord this must have been a pain unpacking. moving around, being the player waiting for you to move this Tyranid swarm around, and then packing it back in. This is one of those lists, where if I were to play against this I would be like "Ok, so I`ll go for my lunch break, be back in 30 minutes"
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Received a newsletter from Mierce Mini. Sooo..... yeah.... this guy is a thing now ! The different head makes it looks so much betters. (not sure about posting links, hence Spoiler tab. If its still an issue please let me know before cruelly banning me >< Free Azyr of Stormcast Oppresion ! Long live the Great Beast Go(d)at ! Baaaah ! :D) Looking mighty fine for a Shaggy right there, buddy old chap ! *Just not sure if it can fit on the 90x52mm base hmm
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@SwampHeart Thanks for testing it out ! Yeah it was just a concept. Shoot the Tzaanshaman forward, plop it down in front of your enemy and surge forwarding playing into BoC strong mobiliy to create pressure around the horn, forcing your opponent to commit in an unfavorable position. Sadly we lack the casting benefits... kinda miss the old Herdstone that buffed our casters Magic, but ah well. Against less magic lists with the proper setup it seems like a fun thing to play around, going with your report, and for me, as long as its fun (and not the "omfg I rofl stomped you so hard, lol git gud scrub" kind) thing to play with I am good I also had a run with those Phoenixes. Downright nasty they are. Not only tough but 8 attacks 3+3+-1 2 is no joke. Plus they get a free rider with extra 4 attacks of the same profile with 1 dmg. Played against an full High Elf army, 2 Fenixes (yes "F", its annoying to write PHOE all the time), and a Drakeseer on dragon. Minotaurs are decent and taking it down, but the best counter for it was the Gorghon. The sheer amount of damage that thing can cause in a single round > and if you get a DB to compensate for the Fenixes -1 to Wound (this should be toned down. The range is to much. 9" is overkill), few lucky 6 to wound and you are slicing through that chicken like nobodys bussiness. I have some photos somewhere, might write down a short bat. rep.
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Paired weapons are good if you go against anything that ignores Rend. Wast amount of units (all sorts of ghosts and wraiths + Nighthaunt) form Death come to mind with their 4+ perma save. Thats one of the cases where you need a lot of "firepower" rather than penetration. For Units like those I would consider going for 3 with paired. Granted mine are all with warglaives, but I dont care about 100% WYSIWYG, this aint 40K with its myriad of ranged weapons. So far no issue has been raised so yeah. Alternatively if you are a person who wants everything to be according to WYSIWYG you might consider magnetizing their arms and swap as necessary. Its a bit tedious, especially if you lack the proper tools, but it does pay off in the end (coming from someone who plays battlesuit heavy Tau in 40K... yeah going back and magnetizing all 5 or so weapons for every single suit and the suit itself out of 15 was definitely a "good idea "though the words "tedious and annoying" does not do justice to the whole en-devour ).
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Edit: Hmm ok at first I was kinda pissed off, but thinking about this now that I calmed down a little, if this is purely for Silver Tower... do we even have to care ? I mean this is only basic Tzaangors, and only for Silver Tower Format, so honestly it changes nothing for the actual BoC Battletome or the army itself no ? If nothing else Enlightened/Skyfires and Shaman aint affected by this. Maybe I should hold off from buying the infantry Tzaangors as I wanted to....
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Not sure about Wildfire Taurus. Personally I am vary of any Predatory spells other then Pendelum which cant really do jack to you, even if you opponent gets the turn. Other Predatory spells, especially super fast ones like the Taurus however are something I would not risk, unless I had a perfect placement far away from my lines with a lone shaman suicide casting him there. On the note of our Endless spells. Has any one had any success with Dirge Horn ? I played around with some list that could incorporate it > Usually with a Tzaan Shaman as the spell carrier, since he is fast and can double cast once per game. Its fairly easy to dispell but if you push with stuff like Viletide, Arcane bolts and Tendrils > especially on enemy hero, they usually choose to protect the heroes rather than care about Dirge Horn. Have to try it out yet though.
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@Skreech Verminking I like it ! The steel like looking disc fits the Warriors of Chaos / Norsca theme. and the magic wand painted like a torch is actually quite nice touch "Raiding, burning, pillaging ! YARRR ! Mine are going to be similar but different. Also went for the dark skinned ones, but retained the mystical blue to it. I want my Tzaangors to resemble crows > black feathers/bodies, yellow beaks, different yellow claws and horns. Shaman will be grey in contrast to them, because.... shaman > old wise and less angry, more cunning then his younger cousins :p
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Nah, I`ve seen them. They make only big stuff, like Greater demons, dragons and such. Some of them are very cool, some are less, but regardless of which they all have a unique vibe (and a considerable price tag ) to them. Considering the scale of their models and the fact its supposed to fit in with BoC, Dragon Ogre Shaggoth is the only thing that comes to mind, that fits both the size of their usual miniatures, and the information you have provided. No complaints from this peanut gallery God knows I need some good model for a DOS, and the one from Mierce I was considering is way to big for a 90x52mm base, so need to look elsewhere or get down on converting something myself (but considering the slow progress of my current conversion projects thats one option I would like to avoid if at all possible.).
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Are you keeping track of this ? If yes, can you let us know once its out ? Cheers
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I am not completely sure how posting links on this board works (if its allowed or not). So I`ll upload the fanart here under the Spoiler tab. Just a disclaimer though I think it should be clear - I did not make this, its merely something I found when researching about Malal the forsaken 5th Chaos God. If interested I recommend reading up a little about him. He mostly appears in 40K but the "nature of Malal" is being reborn and brought back in different entities during the duration of Warhammer since its inception. Some people argue Malal is not cannon, some argue it is. Personally I care for neither. I find Malal perfectly fitting with the Beastmen theme, and it has kinda twisted romantic vibe to it all. The Chaos of the sake of Chaos itself, not to ever stabilize in one form or the other, not ever cast a mirror image in Order. Cannon or not, Malal/Malice/Necoho/Zuvassin/Archaon is a cool aspect of lore. And just for the lolz, I will quote a snippet from 1D4chan summary article about this crazy nutjob "Malal has a fortress in the Chaos Wastes in Warhammer Fantasy where he captures and trolls Greater Daemons by trapping them for all eternity unable to do whatever it is that they embody. This one Keeper of Secrets he has, for example, is caught in a field that nullifies all sensation so it can't indulge in cocaine fueled sex parties with Doomrider, thus eternally pissing off said daemon forever in the only way that works. He also put a Great Unclean One in a vat of disinfectant; blinded and binded a Lord of Change and put him in a stasis-field; and locked a Bloodthirster in an indestructible zen garden."
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Count me in. Nurgle is loved way to much by people. Everyone I know who has a chaos army of any type be it 40K or AoS has this weird nurgle fanboyism going on. I always liked the weaver of fate and master of magic most out of the big 4. .....although thats a place holder until the God of true Chaos makes his comeback ! Hail Malal ! (They not gonna bring him back I know, but there were some more lore snippets here and there in 40K talking about the God of Anarchy and mayhem...... thats the true and proper Beastmen God right there ! Plus anyone who saw that cool artwork of a gigantic Beastmen holding a Keeper of Secrets greater demon of Slaanesh in his hand, slowly squishing it, and plays BoC just has to love this guy :3 )
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Thanks a lot for the explanation. I dont have a core rulebook, and all the rules that have been taught to me were through playing the game and whatever knowledge I carried over from playing WFB and 40K, thus resulting in the strange mix Seeing how the deployment works, now I can see the charm to take one of the less appealing battalions. I still think they are overpriced and should be buffed, but thats beside the point right now. Being able to one drop/two drop your entire army just like that, and gaining which ever turn you want (in few rare cases you want to go second). Btw why does papa Nurgle not like Razorgors ? 40 pts suicide pig with MW on top sounds absolutely legit to me I had one more question regarding Devolve, before we got into this, and that how far can Devolve force you enemy to move ? Do you have to respect the 3" gap from, or can it be pulled even closer ? The way we played is that we agreed upon respecting the 3" gap that a unit has to stop at when coming near enemy units, but personally the intention of the spell seems to me like its meant to pull them as close as possible. How do you guys resolve Devolve in your games in a situation where the range you pull the enemy units towards you results in them rolling high enough that they would be able to come into full contact with your unit. I dont think I read anything about this in the FAQ
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I am sorry but I dont seem to understand the deploying in that case. It seems we have been playing this wrongly for a while... which does not make me happy at all. The way we played this so far was that you count the number of units in your army and you roll off. Who ever has less units than the enemy gets a +1 to the roll. The one who wins, decided who deploys first, meaning that person also starts first. Clearly that was completely wrong . Can you break it down for me how it actually works please ?
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But you still roll off to see who deploys first. Thats what I am talking about. *** A question about Devolve > if anyone knows the answer. Can you pull the target enemy unit closer then the obligatory 3" gap from your units ? We had a situation like this in my last game this week, and we decided to go with the 3" gap, but I still think the intention of the rule is to pull the as close as possible. How do you resolve this ?
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Really like those conversion. I like Tzaangors overall as sculpts, and would love to see more of the God themed Bestigors (Khorne /Slaan/Pesti/gors), and I like conversion as well so double props from me. For my Dragon Ogors I just went with the Beastmen boar riders from Mierce miniatures. Managed to get few of those for cheap, so that saved me lot of trouble. Will have to figure out something for the Shaggoth though, that old ugly disproportional sculpt just aint doing it for me As for the one drop army > Thats not a 90% guaranteed 1st turn. I mean all it does for you is +1 on the first roll off.
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Enlyghtened on Discs, are extremely good. Cheap fast and can benefit even more from Shaman +3 movement, making 1st turn Alpha strikes a given. Having the option to go foot for even cheaper, makes for an interesting choice. Plus in that case ambush becomes a viable option especially if you can set things up for a turn 2 ambush, when the table has already shifted somewhat. Skyfires are expensive as all hell, but funny enough people who play them, use them for combat mostly, and the shooting is more like a nice bonus. No personal experience with these yet. Normal Tzaangors seem situational depending on the army which they face. They seem to have some strong match ups, and some less favorable. Compared to Tzeentch, the Tzaan Shaman in BoC got nerfed since he can no longer create new units with his spell, meaning if you dont have a unit of Tzaangors that spells has limited use. Overall the Tzeentch brothers are doing well and going strong in Beast of Chaos book. ....Now if GW wanted to make more money of us all they would have to do would be the introduction of Knor/Slaan and Pestigors to our elite infantry.
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Yeah bullgors are currently the short end of the stick. To slow, to few attacks. Not at all the glasshammer they once used to be. An option would be for you to lug a shaman with them. Not for the buff, but for Devolve, and try to pull enemy units closer to them. You know, cant get the Kingdom ? Get the King, instead and the rest will follow, and all that fun stuff. But in that case you might wanna considering taking the Vortex for improved casting and bonus range, as most of our spell bar one, have really pathetic range.
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Edit: Double post sorry. Found the answer I was looking for. For some reason there is no Delete option anywhere on the comment.
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For the first part - If you dislike the general look of Ungors, you can look around for some alternatives. As has been mentioned in this thread a while back, there are some good models that fit the size and the feel. For example I myself am using the Frostgrave Gnolls. 20 models for 20 bucks, and good amount of details and poses to make them look good once painted. There are also other alternatives. Granted if you want to go to GW tournaments, using 3rd party models is a no go, but if you dont care about those this might be a good work around the issue you have with the models As for the second part - Yes currently the Skyfires due to the jacked up price are either All or Nothing scenario. You either dedicate hard and take a unit of 6+ and dedicate with a Tzaan Shaman tagging along and buffing them, or you skip them completely. MSU units might be viable once we see a price drop by at least 40 pts per unit. In your particular case with the Chimeras and what not, I would drop those 3 completely and invest the 200 pts into something else. If its swift objective grabbers you need then Centigors are your guys. Personally I found Razorgors pretty good for this role as well. The little piggy (a.k.a: angry, over-sized pork-chop on four legs) is fast enough and very cheap. At 40 points its very easy to fit one or two of these into any army. Keep them back let them slowly crouch up towards objectives not drawing attention to them. One of these buggers won me a game against SCE, where all my big gribbly and scary stuff was pushing hard on my opponent while this little big comfortably sat on an objective for 3 turns, raking those points in and oinking at any unit passing by
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Entombet - I was thinking about a list very similar to yours, now that I got 6 Enlightened and Tzaan shaman finally done. The difference is mostly that I plan to split the 40 ungors in two smaller blocks of 20 as this kinda reduces the loss from battleshock, and allows for more zone control. As for objective holding I would drop one unit of Ungors and take 5 centigors. Same amount of wounds, better save vs shooting, but twice as fast > In case you play the moving objectives, this can be invaluable. Personally I think you are going a bit too magic Heavy. I would swap the Shaggoth for maybe another BL and either add something fast (10 flank assault Centigors.), annoying (several single model Razorgors), or "Pretend you are scary" to soak some enemy fire (Cygor/Gorghon, 3x Dragon Ogers , Minotaurs, Jabberslythe) and just take the heat of your other stuff. Or alternatively if you intent to go this magic heavy, taking one or two endless spells like Dirge Horne and Pendelum, Geminids or Cogs might be also an interesting venture.
