Lucky Snake Eyes
-
Posts
459 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
1
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Gallery
Store
Downloads
Blogs
Events
Posts posted by Lucky Snake Eyes
-
-
12 minutes ago, Aryann said:
Yeah, I'd just rather they kept chronological order. This way I have the impression as if those AoS premieres were least important.
The new 40k stuff was teased a while ago in a joke article about primaris lieutenants where they had all the new stuff blurry in the background. So technically yeah they've been teasing the 40k stuff first, we'll probably get the new tome previews once the marine stuff has run it's course.
-
3
-
-
23 minutes ago, Dead Scribe said:
I think IGOUGO in general is bad and should be removed entirely and that a more interactive alternate activation sequence be used in its place. A lot of games have moved to this and I tend to like those more.
Infinity has a neat variation of IGOUGO where in units that have line of sight on the active unit can make reactions such as shooting with a reduced number of dice, dodge out of the way, hack the active unit etc. I find it makes for a nice flow of the game.
-
1
-
-
31 minutes ago, prochuvi said:
Hnnn why is insulting and ignorant call noob to someone that loose against fyreslayers?it is 100% the true.
Fyreslayer have 4" move that is doubled by every other army,so if you know this and know that fyreslayers are very good at melle it is easy to think that you can easily win them only playing objetives and kiting them.also they need heroes to be decent
Now a noob-novice-people that dont know this-call it as you want if you dont like noob,gonna try go melle and delete fyreslayers units ignoring heroes etc
Then he gonna loose and blame fyreslayers are op when the true is that they are a tier2 army but he lost due to be a noob and dont know how play against them.
So i said slanesh is the most broken army now,they havent any counterplay and dont matter what do you do,it is autoloose.
The counter to slanesh is kill the heroes before they can sumon,now you cant do this at melle due to how broken is the locust.
So slanesh counter is only a full rangued army that can delete at turn1 every slanesh hero or a army that have allways atack first habilitys.
If a army havent any of those is a 100% autowin to slanesh,dont matter how skilled be the player
Locus can fail and can only target a single unit, so tag team the heroes with 2 units at once. Or just shoot them or blast them with mortal wounds from spells and abilities, or zone out the heroes so there's no room to place large units or big bases. The KoS is on a pretty big base and at the earliest it'll come down in their second turn, so with some clever deepstrikes, flying units or raw speed you can block the drop without needing to kill the hero. It has to fit in a 12" bubble 9" away from your stuff, not a lot of room to work with when dropping a big daemonette squad either. Oh and not to mention you're being hypocritical by saying your a noob for getting into melee with fyreslayers but say HoS are OP when you try to do the same with them. Both are powerful and a skilled player can abuse them, but both have surprisingly similar counterplay: snipe the heroes or zone them out. You can use spells and abilities to move the heroes into positions you want such as the warscroll spell for the brayshaman.
And for the record, even if it is only a once per game ability, fyreslayers can get a decent slingshot going to fling that HGB bomb up the table, such as onto a center objective in the early game or to block off an avenue of movement depending on the terrain setup. Now try playing a list with no shooting while the fyreslayers have their spell negation relic to protect the heroes that are properly bubblewrapped by the HGB. All you can hope to do is try for the other objectives on the table and contend with the rest of there army. Sometimes it can work, sometimes your army is also slow (such as skeleton heavy LoN builds) and they can catch your slow big blobs out with there own.
-
2 hours ago, Overread said:
In the end I think its clear that, for many, depravity generation has issues. Both in how much the slaanesh player can already generate, but also for Slaanesh as an army in how it forces the players hand down one or two specific army builds and if not invalidates, at least makes far less viable, a wide range of other build approaches.
Considering the number of armies present in the game and the fact that each has to be at least somewhat unique, It becomes pretty hard to make lists that can compete against every other list you might see in a span of 5 games whether that be in a GT or at a lfgs. Yeah a melee stormcast list will probably lose if it just throws itself at most slaanesh lists but shootcast will beat slaanesh black and blue. And there are armies that won't do well against that melee stormcast list but can stomp shootcast. You can try to build a swiss army knife list but in the end the performance of lists like that come down to how skilled the player is. If you wanted a game where any list has a fair chance against any other list, this game just ain't it. You'd have to either overhaul the core rules or cut down on the number of armies to cut down on the need for unique mechanics. If you do want a game that promotes balanced list building and play I'd recommend Infinity, pretty fun and great for when I want a smaller game than AoS.
-
46 minutes ago, whispersofblood said:
Added numbers for ease of reference.
1. I agree, what makes the KoS strong is 2+ Locus, and exploding 6's. But its base profile combined with this is where the reliable damage comes from in the book. Which is why you are seeing tournament armies include multiple KoS. 1) it does the most reliable damage in the book, 2) it has utility via depravity and 3) even if you only took it for Excess of Violence you would need 2 because it is wholly within 12". I'm generally an anti-mainstream guy, so I've spent basically every day since launch looking for damage from places other than the KoS and I haven't found one. They all rely on Excess of Violence, so at that point why am I not just taking the KoS. I think they really messed the book up with the Fiend pricing, they should have been aggressively priced to compete against all the things the KoS brings to the army. The Bladebringer on Exalted Chariot is 10 points more, and brings way more to the army than 3 fiends, despite that it on average kills less. The Exalted does about 8 wounds all told to a singe unit with a 4+ save, 3 Fiends do about 6 if you are lucky. It jumps a bit against ,multiwound models, but then the Bladebringer gives depravity points against the same unit. Then consider that Fiends will almost never be in a position to hold down an objective efficiently, when Heroes score in many battleplans.
2. Correct but that is still in the charge phase, so there is still no turn 1, KoS or 30 daemonettes without multiple Infernal Enrapturesess. Unless of course you are foolish enough to give them the depravity they need to do so, and not kill the character they will want to summon off of.
3. That's the thing, the dmg is pretty meh overall outside of a KoS, or maxed Daemonettes in revellers (which is shockingly poor in my estimation). I've even tried 20 man Seeker units and they are still kind of disappointing. Its the double fight that does the dmg, and that mechanic has room to interact. Its not a second pile-in. There needs to be an enemy unit with 3" for the Cmd ability to even work, so you don't get a 3" pile-in and 1" reach fight. I've watched Wrathmongers make 1 or 2 too many saves and lost a KoS. The book is all honest dmg, heaven forbid you come up against a Nurgle horde with multiple harbingers.
People can say but Whispersofblood, not all factions have those rules. But every faction you can use chaff, and spacing. I'm fairly certain there are two big problems with HoS. No one actually knows what is in the book, besides about half the players who actually play HoS. And, casual players are incredibly resistant to changing their perception of the game and their army builds.
You can pull some juicy stuff by throwing up a line of sacrificial chaff and keeping the heavy hitters 4" back so they can't be reached, then on your turn charge into the keeper that got caught up in the chaff, sure there's thermal rider cloak but considering the base size on the keeper you just gotta space enough of your backline out to zone out the keeper from having anywhere to land that isn't in the chaff. Besides doesn't matter how many daemons i summon when fyreslayers don't take any wounds lol.
-
4 minutes ago, whispersofblood said:
I don't mind an essay at all, lets people actually discuss real information rather than a couple lines about their gaming groups feelings.
I want to make a few basic statements and see if people disagree with them.
If you strip down HoS to its basic components its a jogging speed combat army. Meaning that you can have on average about a 12" mv and charge. I don't think there is much to disagree with there?
They have pretty average to mediocre combat stats. Mostly 3+/4+/ -1/dmg1, generally no buffs better than a rr1. In fact only unit better than that is fiends (3/3/-1/variable) which are the slowest unit in the book.
The army has no defensive buffs, or defensive de-buffs, no -1 to hits or wounds, rr saves, redundant saves, it only deals damage.
The army has 1 native shooting profile, and 4 units without access the Hero Keyword.
I think the above is pretty undebatable, so I'll get into the controversial stuff.
The KoS warscroll isn't worth 360 points. But, with allegiance abilities and that it provides at least 13 depravity it provides utility, that no other unit in the faction provides. And, its command ability makes it a pretty well self contained scroll. However we haven't actually seen it allied in anywhere, so there must be something about it that isn't checking boxes in the meta brain.
Also to be perfectly clear, if you kill 2 Keeper of Secrets in your first turn, the soonest they would summon is turn 2. There are specific circumstances in which they could get 30 and they all include having multiple infernal Enrapturess. Arcane bolt could theoretically get 3, but that still leaves the HoS player 1 short, and you know the range on that. Song of Secrets, but you killed all the wizards that can cast that spell, and Hysterical Frenzy, but that spell is wholly within so if you leave one model trailing you are immune to that spell. Invaders have to be in the opponents territory in the hero phase, which is impossible since they have no alternative deployment units, Godseekers is in the charge phase, and Pretenders in in the combat phase.
While Locus of Diversion is a battle trait, the army actually functions because of the KoS Excess of Violence Command ability. Which again points to the importance of the KoS in the army, and the mediocre nature of the armies ability to deal damage.
I'll conclude with another statement. In a book with no defensive augmentation, no shooting, no alternative deployment, short ranged offensive magic, comprised mainly of models with multiples of 3/4/-1/dmg 1" attacks, and limited access to mortal wounds. How do you propose an army like this functions without a) summoning fresh troops through the game in, with a semi-predictable mechanic or b) being a 90+ daemonette horde?
Now the answer to this question totally depends on how you view AoS. If you see it as a game to score more points than your opponent, then you will see 'a' as the best solution. The opponent can engage with the mechanic, can force the HoS player to summon non-combatants (non heroes) to secure objectives, zone areas so they can only summon certain types of models, force them to summon of heroes in non-optimal places, deny giving them DP in your turn and make them earn them in their own turn so they can't summon in time. There is lots of play there.
If you think AoS is about killing the opponents army and then scoring with whatever you have left, well you'll probably prefer they have more mediocre models, and then complain they have too many models and its unfair anyway.
A couple of points to make here:
You don't see the KoS allied because it's spells, exploding 6's and other buffs that let them spiral out of control come from the allegiance, and it's command ability only works on units with the hedonites keyword so aside from itself you'd have no other targets.
Also depending on deployment, seekers and hellstriders can easily land enough turn 1 charges for the d6 depravity roll.
And yup our hit and wound rolls are for the most part mediocre, it's somewhat compensated by an abundance of low rend, universal reroll 1's spell and exploding 6's but on their own our units don't have the teeth their made out to be. My fear as a slaanesh player isn't rend or even most shooting, it's multidamage attacks and opponents with easy access to save rerolls to mitigate my low rend. Had a game against ogors, I won because well, good book vs no book but his ironguts walked through most of what engaged them due to a few unlucky locus rolls and high damage weapons being swung at garbage saves. Or in another game when chameleon skinks redeployed onto an objective i was holding with the remnants of a daemonette squad and watched them get shot off by skinks within stabbing distance. So there absolutely is counterplay as far as objectives are concerned. A good push onto an objective and placing your units well enough to avoid locus' can crush a slaanesh lline.
-
3 hours ago, whispersofblood said:
I'm very hesitant about posting in this thread but the level of generalisation is just too high to not push back against. So I have a few questions for those who think that HoS summoning is too easy or overpowered.
What is it about the summoning that is overpowered
The units that are being summonable?
The power of the models being summoned?
That somehow HoS summoning gives them an unfair advantage at winning the game?
That the HoS is being rewarded for doing what they would not do normally? Or behaviour that is counter intuitive to the narrative?
That it feels bad to kill a Keeper of Secrets and see a new one come on the board?
For example. People have stated the swingy nature of Depravity generation as a bug and therefore display it as a weakness in the design. But, if you consider it a feature of the narrative and see that it works as intended then it is a build issue that the HoS player must work with, meaning they can't rely on Depravity generation to cover gaps in their build.
If people really want to discuss Slaanesh summoning be prepared to answer a lot of questions about how you and your meta approach AoS not just attitude but actual strategic demeanour, otherwise there is no common ground for understanding and its a bunch of nerds yelling at each other.
It's more or less a quality + quantity issue from my understanding.
For example LoN can keep recycling any unit with summoning, most summonable units have sub par stat lines that are adjusted by the fact their models can come back. Plus complete unit res can only happen from graveyards near the general.
Now I can't speak for summoning restrictions on khorne or seraphon, all i know is seraphon never cast spells to max points and khorne loses theirs once they spend them, but I've seen players of both armies just slap down summoned stuff anywhere on the table and that's huge despite their limited generation (you can only spam so many wizards as seraphon and MSU's aren't exactly in meta for khorne to abuse)
Slaanesh units, much like the rest of chaos who share the theme of summoning daemons and/or overgrown farm animals, have a summoning mechanic that's fluffy, in this case non lethal pain, and their units are decent enough to stand on their own (within the context of being backed by their allegiance) but are also summonable. Now unlike the other 3 god armies, slaanesh has no mortals aside from 1 unit and thus have basically their entire toolkit at their disposal for summoning. Now that's not normally an issue since the 3 other god armies have their own equivalents + mortals and competitive players will buy spare daemons anyways, BUT we run into the issue with how each army summons.
Like I said, MSU's are in short supply so khorne is starving for tithe, on the flipside if it where an MSU heavy meta we might be having this discussion about khorne but I digress. Tzeentch is all about that magic, and aside from LoN and slaanesh, I can't think of other armies that spam wizards unintentionally or not. So it's only a few matchups there that they can really pop off. Nurgle is probably the most consistent and certain builds can get you a late game GUO but by turn 3 it better be a hell of a gamechanger with where you summon him. Slaanesh, much like khorne and nurgle, use an unavoidable game mechanic to generate points, but unlike the others, slaanesh doesn't care how many units are on the table or anything like that, just that non lethal wounds happen. This is where some of the griping lies. Another complaint is the power per cost of units, while I feel the KoS is sitting where it should be at 360pts, the summoning cost is only 30 so even a mediocre to abysmal turn, say 2 KoS die but you get off a couple wounds with spells or whatever and you get your d3 host depravity, boom that's a turn 2 KoS to try to bounce you back after a terrible first turn. You snowball when you succeed and have a mediocre but still existent safety net when you fail. Meanwhile the other khorne and tzeentch are less reliable in summoning a quantity of daemons or a few powerful daemons and nurgles predictable generation leaves them with needing to decide on whether to spend points now or save for the turn 3 GUO.
Now the argument is still true that skill and luck will still turn a game around in your favor, that greater daemon the opponent just got because YOU played well can be offsetting mentally. You can also argue that it can be played around by zoning out heroes, but that's a potential 6 heroes to have zoned or killed by turn 2, not all armies have the tools for that level of hunting/swamping and a lot of the ones who can have to go all in on it. Yeah you'll yank the teeth out of a slaanesh army by killing the big heroes and zoning the little ones but your gonna be screwed when your alpha strike speed list goes into the next 4 rounds at a GT against skaven or some other popular list.
I'd argue that from a gameplay perspective it's still a mechanic that can absolutely be played around and prepare for, but the psychological effect is clearly profound as this thread shows. Personally I'd welcome a change such as focusing more on the host specific depravity generators or making it easier to zone out the summoning, maybe only being able to summon from a wounded hero to add a bit of fluff, the daemons joining the party rather than popping up because the herald on the corner of the table who did nothing all game asked them to. or maybe restricting it to only the fane and epitomes? The daemons coming through the mirrors, yeah people would abuse epitomes but it helps with target priority, shoot the epitomes turn 1 and zone the fane.
Sorry for the essay lol
-
3 minutes ago, Dead Scribe said:
They'd be much more of a challenge and riskier.
Sounds like a bunch of competitive players would jump ship lol
-
6 minutes ago, CB42 said:
This makes Slaanesh lists that are not built around summoning more viable as there's less opportunity cost. Yeah, maybe that 1 keeper / 1 epitome / 90 daemonettes with mortal wounds on 6s to wound battalion list isn't really viable right now because why not just take more heroes, but if the relative efficiency of heroes is reduced because of summoning cost nerfs, non-heroes are relatively more impactful to take in a Slaanesh list.
Does make you wonder how lists that aren't built around summoning would perform in a competitive setting.
-
3 minutes ago, prochuvi said:
Yes that is free,or a model as the arch regent that cost 200(before the nerf) and 240 now.
Bring 200 points of gouls free,if it isnt free then for 240 points we have 200 points of gouls + a hero with stats of a 120 points hero and casting two spell
So yes the sumon is free or per example with sumon integrated in the cost the arch regent would cost as 400 point and not only 240
So still not free, but certainly discounted. But in cases like this you can try to play around the existence of those models by sniping them out with magic, shooting or a hail mary of a charge before the summoning/revival happens. That prevents the addition/recycling of models and can throw off an opponent that was banking on using the mechanic.
-
4 minutes ago, prochuvi said:
Ok i said random numbers. I chequed data now.
Before start with order,destruction etc that it is imposible to know if have or not free sumon we have the top 15.
From those 15 we have 10 armys with free sumon ,2 armys with 0 sumon and 3 armys with access to sumons or revive models as stormcast,nighthaunt or idoneths.
So the 67% have free sumon, the 20% have acess to revive models and only 13% havent free sumon neither revive models.
So it sems the numbers that i said wasnt wrong. Of course on any of those armys as skaven the free sumon have little impact,but the point is that they have it.as stormcasts bring models back or idoneth bring tralls back.
Only fyreslayers and dok in all the top 15 have 0 free models in form of free sumon or revive
I got honestwargamers data for reference
Is free really the right term to use when in some of these cases you're required to pay points for specific models to facilitate said summoning/revival? Skaven can only do it with a screaming bell on a 12, stormcast have to take the lord arcanum? (i'm bad with stormcast names they're all the same to me). It's a little different from the summoning in the form of an allegiance ability that cannot be avoided and is essentially "free" with the only limitation being how the game is played.
-
5 minutes ago, Kitsumy said:
Btw why did u skip my maths sowhing u how the kepeer was better and cheaper than per example mage avatar? Of course u know numbers wasnt on ur favour and tried to compare it to verminlords. And in my opinnion verminlords are the single most undercosted and totally unbalanced unit in all aos by far. Even worse than all slanesh fec. Nagash etc together. So every unit compared against them will be bad of course
And nearly every model compared to the avatar will look good, you two are comparing the lowest hanging fruit of either side of the argument. Why not compare it to other greater daemons which also have to be balanced around their factions summoning mechanic?
-
1 minute ago, Kugane said:
I think it'll definitely be some sort of Asian themed army, most likely instead. I for one look forward to it. It would be amazing if it's undead Cathay or Nippon haha
And it would only have taken close to 3 decades to finally get a nippon army lol
Still It'd be cool if GW met the fans in the middle and made it an asian pirate themed army for an official wraith fleet release. I love my western pirates but asian pirates would be a pretty cool and unique army. As long as i get my walking ship wrecks i'm happy lol.
-
7 hours ago, Lightbox said:
Oh man... now I really want oriental vampires/liche's leading terracotta undead soldiers!!! That would be amazing.
Personally I do hope they go oriental themed, would be something very different and super cool for death! Regular boring ol' skeletons would just feel too much like battletome legions of nagash 2: undead boogaloo
This is sounding more and more like a chinese TK and I kinda love it. Terracotta, bone and jade constructs powered by the souls of the dead with skeleton fodder and some kind court of vampires, wights and liches with a vampire, wight or lich mortarch as "emperor".
...as much as i don't want them to bring back vlad, his one dream aside from being with his wife was to be an emperor...
-
3
-
-
Imma throw my hat in the ring with a super left field suggestion.
It seems there's a lot of contention over the cultural inspiration for the teaser's... well everything.
What if that's intentional? What if the necropolis is made from bone tithes from all the realms? That'd explain the mix of cultural signals as the necropolis would have influences from everywhere.
As for the mortarch (or whatever this guy is going to be) it's probably a new character, but Krell is a solid choice. But how about Count Noctilus? Hear me out here, the vampire coast expansion for total war warhammer 2 has popularized undead pirates again and it's been long enough since that hype train for GW to have had something in the works as a response to that. While he wasn't killed by ghal maraz itself, his ship was rammed by the heldenhammer which had a recreation of ghal maraz as a battering ram.
I know I'm reaching for straws here but since the free cities are getting a full book, this would be an opportunity to turn their "rival" from firestorm, the wraith fleet, into their own army.
-
4
-
-
For my slaanesh:
- Shoot the heroes, you can go for spells but if an enrapturess and/or epitome are in range your gonna have some trouble getting off your damage spells short of running nagash himself
- you don't need rend, but piling in first with high damage or high volume weapons dumpster 90% of our units due to poor saves and us no longer having as many hit debuffs as we used to
- mind your positioning around our heroes, either go in with multiple units so only one gets locus, or tie them up with something expendable with single wound models while your damage dealers mess up our battleline
For Legions of Nagash:
- for magi heavy lists, kill the mortis engine and corpse carts to remove some of the +1's
- snipe necros as they are a force multiplier
- melee arkhan as his bones are brittle
- for vampire heavy lists, swamp the heroes in chaff
- counter skeleton spam with stuff like Hearthguard berserkers who can counter swarm and dumpster with the right support
For Kharadron overlords:
- we're deceptively vulnerable to shooting
- Our boats have trash saves and are only propped up by a multitude of small heals
- with the exception of endrinriggers and brokk, we can't stab worth ******
-hit debuffs ruin our ships due to them having single shot cannons with 4+ to hit, we spend too much effort trying to buff our hit chances so killing off lord ordinator allies or our mhornar general makes our ships close to useless
- be ready for the clown car, once we drop 80% of our army on one objective using a boat, just run fast units onto other objectives because 90% your cav will kill whatever we left on the other objectives and it will take too long for the rest of our army to turn and kill you while we're tied up putting lackluster shooting into your main troops
-
I'm not an ogors player in any capacity, but I would love to see a more AoS rebranding of ogors that goes all in on the ogors obsession with eating. A "devouring Horde" battletome or something like that that umbrellas the existing ogor factions like gloomspite. The terrain piece could be a big cauldron or representation of the great maw and the endless spells could be representative of the everwinter or whatever it's called that follows the beastclaw raiders. I feel going all in on a theme like this could drum up hype and make them stand out more against other factions with equally crazy themes like fish aelves. Throw in the obligatory new plastic hero that every non AoS unique tome gets and it'll make for a decent sell, at least for the several players in my area still clinging to their ogors.
-
So Personally I collect Hedonites, so I guess I can say that army is exactly 50/50?
My second army is legions of nagash... yeah literally just vampires for things that visibly have a gender and even then it'd just be the foot vampires (until we hopefully get new vamp units) that could get more varied sculpts since the coven throne are all female and blood knights are in heavy armour so it doesn't matter. Albeit I love the designs of the old Vlad and Isabella models from 8th ed fantasy and would love to see more vampires of both varieties follow similar design schemes. An old hag necro or witch would be neat tho since our sculpt options for those are limited to a single sculpt and a long dead fantasy character.
i also recently started a small KO force, so I don't know if it's still cannon but I recall fantasy stated that dwarf birth rates where 75% male or something crazy like that? Regardless of whether that's cannon KO are all wearing heavy suits so any physical signs of gender would likely be hidden anyways.
Most armies can realistically include female sculpts without causing a fuss anyways, and in many cases you wouldn't be able to tell the differences between men or women either due too armour or racial biology anyways.
While I don't really care what direction GW takes with future sculpts I will be all for any sculpts that are good, because in the end that's what matters. I don't care if the next 50 sculpts shown off are all female as long as they're quality sculpts.
As for the minor point of racial representation, they all come grey just paint them how you want, they're your models after all. Who cares what the official paint scheme is? I usually don't follow them anyways.
-
1
-
-
Recently got into KO because the models are just so GOOD! Rules however are poorly thought out and pale in comparison to newer books (for example hedonites who are my bread and butter) I honestly feel all we need are just a few tweaks to make us viable again without having to long bomb a clown car full of endrinriggers.
1. Make the navigator able to do his things while embarked, he's the boa man, let him be on his boat!
2. Split the admirals rules into two different warscrolls, he can't seem to decide whether he wants to foot slog or support the ships.
3. Either make the main guns of the ships flat damage or keep the random damage but add a shoot twice rule (I'm thinking something similar to grinding advance for 40k leman russ tanks)
4. As a tau player in 40k i feel some mechanic that could give more reliable rerolls or a +1 to hit will help offset our 4+ to hit and make us more viable without ordinators or escort wing.
5. buff the ironclad to a 3+ save, so few models in it's price range have worse than a 3+ or 4+ with ward
Some wishlisting would also include a ship with multiple main guns instead of transport capacity or an "open top" ship that lets the transported troops shoot and use abilities while riding.
Regardless of all this I am enjoying the army and my local meta is lacking in shooting lists so they'll be a fun addition to my collection. I do enjoy the swingy nature of the army so if things don't get better for us I'll just use them casually and bust out the hedonites for tournaments.
-
3
-
-
13 minutes ago, whispersofblood said:
Enoch you are misunderstanding,
But I will first point out some misconceptions you are making about my position. I address the chaff role in my third paragraph.
The comment about horde armies is an incorrect interpretation of what I said. I never said that they don't exist, that they aren't competitive, but your point belabours my own. They are viable but we only need to look at faction representation (available on The Honest Wargamer) sample the lists available for those factions from events and we find that true hordes of single models in the competitive realms are extremely rare. And, that fact has a distorting affect on what selections are worthwhile in faction books, and those distortions cause distortions and so on and so forth. The same is true of real range damage.
This is all very well known stuff, its the basis of money ball, and why Liverpool and Manchester City from an organisational stand point leagues ahead of the rest of the Premier League.
@Overread Cost is an important factor, but its not the FIRST factor, basically its convincing a person looking for a car to drive, that a non-functional car has value as scrap.Hordes are still playable and popular man, check out the 6Nations lists on honest wargamer (was recently looking at these because I heard some mad man brought KO) plenty of hordes of rats, reapers, skeletons, etc even some hearthguard blobbing (while not a traditional horde it is internally a horde by fyreslayers standards)
-
1
-
1
-
-
14 minutes ago, frostfire said:
I honestly think that Nagash is just right in his position, or even a bit overcosted comparing to FEC and Skaven or even Fyreslayer who obviously tipped the balance since they came out .....
Thanks to all the viable Deathlords and resurrecting ability, LoN become an interesting army with its own features. Simply demolishing the ability to bring back models and units may just demolish the fun to play them as well.
Demolishes their usefulness as well, otherwise builds would go to favour meatier units that couldn't revive anyways (not that there are many options for that), thus making them a death reskin of a generic army. besides, with the exception of reapers, any amount of rend will drop our most common units like flies and even spamming dice will make enough die considering our usually abysmal saves, The revive mechanic is how we justify having such flimsy units.
-
1
-
-
1 minute ago, Skreech Verminking said:
Book of grudges, about Sigmar, Nagash and anybody except the skaven😚.
Skaven get their own book, three entire chapters are dedicated to the great horned rat himself.
-
I feel some reworks might be needed considering how old his rules are now, still I could see him working in a slaanesh list for his command ability and 6's hitting twice alone...
-
4 minutes ago, michu said:
@Lucky Snake Eyes I think that Harkon's popularity has risen after Vampire Coast in the TW:W2.
Yeah, but I feel the irons gone cold on that one and GW has missed the window to capitalize on it. Still wouldn't complain to see Harkon wheeling out old bess again and to throw walking boats at my opponents, but it seems unlikely at this point. Then again production time for GW is far from speedy so maybe they started a Vampire coast revival project after seeing the success of the VC dlc. Still you'd think that if that where the case they'd tease something by now just to say "hey we heard you like vampire pirates?". Besides our own Mortarch of night(betrayal, scumbaggery, failure) killed off harkon in the end times if I remember correctly. Would be cool to see Harkon or Vlad come back for a bit of revenge against Mannfred though.
Slaanesh Summoning
in Age of Sigmar Discussions
Posted
Idk what units your allying in with a keeper at 360pts but outside the keeper can only doubletap hedonite units. Since you typically won't have the points to ally things with a keeper then your only double tapping the keeper. And equating the greater daemons in purely combat is a bit of a false equivalency since the lord of change is mainy a caster and utility unit and the GUO is a tank that can survive a keepers oppressive combat. As for the bloodthirster, well yeah fair odds it dies if the keeper gets first swing, but the opposite can happen as well, also the bloodthirster is cheaper in points and can use tyrants of blood to overcome a multikeeper vs multithirster fight.
And on a somewhat related note regarding variance in summoning based on opponent, tzeentch can also be widely varying. I was at a tournament over the weekend and the tzeench player summoned some pinks while fighting khorne but was swimming in summoning against LoN and sylvaneth.