Lucky Snake Eyes

I got into the hobby like 6 years ago as a broke high school student with the dying breaths of fantasy (I picked a hell of a time to buy vlad and isabella a month or so before end times started), continued as a broke college student through 7th edition 40k and later age of sigmar carrying over my handful of vamps and skeletons into legions of nagash. Through the latter half of college I had a part time job working for the college and mostly purchased models preowned or traded with friends (my local flgs deals in used models and gives good discounts due to dirt cheap overhead thanks to low rent and minimal staffing). I got an actual job after graduation and suddenly could afford to buy new so in came emperors children for 40k and slaanesh and obr for aos after milling out a bunch of my legions. As a side note obr was surprisingly reasonably priced even if the harvester and crawler being the same points but vastly different in size and cost is confusing. Having lost my job and unable to find a new one thanks to the pandemic I'm back to my old habits for keeping up with the hobby but I am more fortunate than others being 22, no kids, living with my parents and no student debt (which in itself feels like an exclusively north american problem but hey 2 years of banking half of every pay i got in college was a good idea after all). Thankfully I'm at the point where I can burn out a year on my savings till the job market improves (rip house downpayment money) and only pick up the necessities to keep playing (broken realms books, 40k codexes for my armies whenever those come out). I know folks who weren't in as fortunate a situation as me and had to sell armies to make ends meet. Honestly if wargaming or painting is a hobby you're really into then do what I did for about a year of being unable to afford to keep up with GW and look to another game. For me that was Infinity, a sci-fi skirmish game where $90CAD got me a decent army at the games standard points bracket, dice, terrain (albeit cardboard) and all the rules where available online for free. I do love AoS and even run tournaments out of a local cafe for it but I know firsthand there's times when you need to sit back and reassess your personal situation and social/financial relationship with the hobby.

I feel this comparison misses the point that there won't be a need to support a supply chain or physical retailers with the 3d print model of business. They would literally just need a design team, web team, management and maybe game designers if they decide to make their own game but as the product is delivered digitally to customers with the tools to make the models themselves it cuts a lot of overhead out of operating costs.

Honestly a soulblight aristocracy book is a good chance to do an army that shows more of what it's like to serve nagash. Unlike the nighthaunt that do it as a punishment, legions which are puppets and obr that are built for the job, Vampires are (mostly) willing participants in his empire and are capable of operating independently and occasionally even backstabbing the rest of death or even nagash himself. They're also the only niche of death that actively needs living mortals to live. This could be a death army that's a complete departure from anything undead (depending on your personal interpretation of vamparism anyways). What I'd like to see is your battleline units be mortal servants, either thralls as a cheap horde option or willing soldiers as a mid tier choice. Make these the basic battleline since every vampire needs food and include the ability for vampire units to eat mortal models to heal or empower spells. Other mortal units could include knights as a weaker cavalry to blood knights, death priests, archers or gunners (as the vampires rule cities in shyish) or maybe a mortal captain or enforcer to buff mortals. Where this would get interesting is in the actual vampire stuff, naturally you'd have blood knights, vargheists, bats and lords but you can get into more in depth vampire options. Have vampire foot troops as the elite infantry option (3 man min to maybe 9 or 12 max) they'd be essentially a unit of vampire lords without the command abilities or the wizard keyword, maybe the unit champion gets a blood chalice. Maybe savage vampires half transformed due to starvation or a defect of their curse as foot monsters to compliment the vargheists flying monster role. A new "black coach" type unit that carries the coffins of ancient vampires either as a combat chariot or buff piece. To expand hero options you could have lords, sorcerers/warlocks, ancients (basically uber lords with better stats), and hero versions of the monster vampires or a hero vampire built around taming/controller their transformed kin. Faction terrain could be a crypt or blood wagon for a healing aura or some sort of buff with limited uses that can be refilled by sacrificing thralls or killing enemy heroes. Generic army abilities include "feeding" basically making the heal on kills universal to all units with the vampire keyword, "blood rituals" which would involve sacrificing models with the thrall keyword for a buff or one of a list of possible buffs (maybe even including faction specific ones) and finally "benevolent overlords" as some form of bravery buffing or limited battleshock mitigation for thralls near friendly vampire units. Basically the army would work on a basic theme of treating thralls as a resource as much as a unit to support and enhance the elite vampire units. For sub factions it's obviously gotta be bloodlines and my two cent ideas for them are as follows: Blood Dragons: makes blood knights battleline, gives extra attacks to vampires or maybe bonus for fighting heroes/monsters, Vordhai is the intended general with maybe a cp bonus for taking him as incentive Night lords (because gw loves recycling names and manny is a bit sore about the family name): follows similar design to legion of nights scheming, using mortals as the bait instead of skeletons for slightly better mortal anvil with deepstriking vampire units. Mannfred is the intended general possibly making another hero gain a command trait as he is known to have imitations of past rivals around to stroke his ego. Lahmians/Blood court: Gimmicked around beguiling enemies giving vampire units a -1 to hit aura and some way of sabotaging enemy cp/command abilities. Neferatta is the intended general and taking her makes vampire foot soldiers battleline. Beastfangs: Some of the lore mentions a bloodline from ghur that idolizes the bloodstarved curses and transformations so this is a monster themed faction. Vargheists or other equivalent vampire monster become battleline, non-mounted heroes can become vargheists or a hero monster on death. Vampires are "starved" and reroll charges, upon killing an enemy unit become "frenzied" and gain +1 to wound instead. Necromantic/necrarch: All non-monster vampire units become wizards and know a spell from the spell lore. Heroes give a +1 to cast aura or maybe heal when successfully dispelling/unbinding a spell. Wraith admiralty: provided we don't get an actual wraith fleet book, these guys can take 1 in 4 nighthaunt and get some form of deepstrike or redeploy ability with bravery shenanigans as a theme The True Inheritors: one part filler if we don't get wraith fleet and one part hard wishlisting on my part. Basically a "true von Carsteins" sub faction built around buffing thrall units or encouraging working together rather than sacrificing them. Intended general would be Isabella von Carstein Mortarch of shadow whose gimmick would be the von Carstein ring and the ability to summon Vlad as a "shadow" (I'm picturing some daemon prince sized shadow monster) that functions like morathi's transformation when the ring fails or maybe summoned when the ring succeeds and both are stronger as long as both are close together.

I have a harvester but I haven't had a chance to try the catapults yet and would love to put the fear of nagash into the local teclis and kroak players with them. Maybe one of each could still have some gas?

So I skimmed through without reading most of this topic so I'll probably be preaching to the choir somewhat hear on some of these. To start, GW is literally the only company whose games I play that still forces you to buy 3+ books just to play. My other main miniatures game right now is Corvus Belli's Infinity in which the only things you need to purchase to play are the models as the rules, unit rules and a free list builder tool are all available online. Now I'm going to be drawing many more comparisons to infinity as i feel it is one of the most balanced games I've played in my admittedly relatively short time in miniatures games. To address the stardrake in the room, the double turn I feel should stay. It's part of what makes the game unique, I just think their should be some counterplay available. We already have alternating activations in the combat phase but nothing for shooting and only unbinds (if your army has any) for magic. For shooting I feel your opponent should be able to shoot back in some limited capacity, maybe a "quick fire" in which they can shoot with a -1 or only hit on a 6? Infinity gives players the ability to have units within line of sight react by making a dice roll to either "evade" (a chance to dodge a ranged attack and move 3") or "overwatch" (the unit get's to shoot back but only getting 1 shot unless they have a special rule allowing more shots in overwatch) now Infinity is a skirmish style game with 1 model units and handles turn structure in a phaseless "you get so many activations per turn, activate units one at a time to move and then perform an action with" but i feel there's still something we can take from this. Things like evading can be hard to make work on hordes but could be a special rule for some elites and cavalry, particularly ones themed around speed rather than tankiness. And for armies that have no shooting to react with they could instead have a "take cover" or similar rule interaction to give one unit a cover bonus. Ironjaws already have a ranged damage reaction but having the ability to use it to move before the shots are fired or to keep it the same but still give one unit the ability to move if in LoS of a ranged unit could be nice and thematic. For the hero phase (magic and prayers) every army at least has access to unbinds or magic negation, but taking these options isn't always the best choices available. What could be done is units in proximity such as 18" of an enemy wizard could "interrupt concentration" giving a penalty to cast, some units already have proximity based casting penalties but it's usually too big a tax to take them. As for prayers nobody likes eating 3 blood boils in a row and losing a hero or elite unit. There should be a "divine protection" mechanic that allows enemy priests to counter the prayer on a 5+ and include some way of accessing this to armies without any priests. You could even go as far as letting the actual gods on the table counter on a 3+ to flex their divinity. I know for certain I'm preaching to the choir when i say there a a ton of objectively bad warscrolls that can't be saved by points adjustments. In the same vein can we just stop dropping points costs so often? It feels like every year the number of models needed for a game increase and not only is that annoying for people who play hordes but it can get annoying for people who only collect a 2000pt list they like and rarely collect more than they need (i was one of these people for a while with my LoN and StD, although now that I'm not a broke college student those have now become 4000pt OBR and 3000pt slaanesh armies respectively) A small want is regarding buffs and auras, I like the direction 40k is going with buffs being restricted by keywords because it makes no sense for a cavalry hero to give a shooting unit orders on how to shoot better, this opens up more room for heroes designed around supporting different battlefield roles and reduces rule and points bloat from being generalist heroes. Battleshock should also be addressed, It's too easy to ignore and way too swingey. I like how 40k has handled it with it being a dice roll for every model that becomes harder as the unit takes more losses. I still believe some rules to ignore battleshock should exist but in rarer forms (like having a god or similar tier hero nearby) and other abilities built around minimizing losses (screaming bell change to ignore half strength penalty, inspiring presence changed to reroll 1s to run away etc.) and as a bonereaper player I have to admit it can be a powerful and disheartening experience to kill 20 mortek guard and still not see a battleshock take the rest out. I still feel they shouldn't run away, having the concept of fear removed from their souls is part of their lore, but maybe a debuff for falling below half strength as their team tactics become less effective or maybe tying their ability to generate discipline to their bravery so that bravery bombs can still affect them in some way (they don't run because they're not afraid but the screaming ghosts are still distracting)? Sorry for all the rambling but I'm a few drinks in writing this. Anyways I'd appreciate any feedback on the ideas.

Alright ladies and gentlebones, I've got a list idea that isn't just putting all my eggs in one basket, i'm literally throwing the whole basket. Nagash 2x20 mortek guard 1x5 deathriders 2 catapults soulstealer carrion (my local meta is using a lot of LoS blocking tricks and every tournament table has at least 2 overgrown so nagash will use the carrion to throw spells and gazes from cover) Will probably be in stalliarch for the abuseable movement but null myriad might also be a fair choice for the added magic protection beyond nagash (local meta is very magic heavy with 2 teclis players and 3 kroak players) I'm tempted to take this to a 5 game event but have yet to even try it. Thoughts?

This is something I feel GW themselves have failed at getting across as well. The infernal enrapturess and Syll'eskke are great examples of non-stereotypical slaanesh. I'd love for the mortals release (if it ever happens) to have units that show off more than just beauty and seduction. Whether it's symbiotic obsession like syll'eskke or artistic pursuit taken to the depraved extreme like the enrapturess. I'd love for the basic horde infantry to be pain cultists obsessed with sensation, for the elites to be duelists or warriors obsessed with martial mastery like the classic mirror guard. Musicians who can affect the battle with their music and artists who "paint" the battlefield with blood, fire or some crazy alchemy. Even integrate stuff from other factions, ogre units/heroes obsessed with eating or a wizard unit obsessed with mastering magic that gets better as the battle goes on or learns from their enemies. They did a good job with the daemons in that they're generally excessive because they drive the mortals to excess but the mortals are the opportunity to really get the point across with the units having an obsessive fixation on a particular craft or sensation.

What if that's the balancing act for them? What if they don't get any keywords that make them applicable for rerolls outside the generic reroll 1's?

Doesn't the deepkin ability specify they fight "at the start of combat" rather than fight first? Thus rendering slaanesh's fight last kinda moot?

This has been a point of contention in my local group, is the sylleskkian host legal for matched play? If not then why give their unique battallions points if they're banned in the one format that uses points?

Even without the extra 3", most people are probably taking a runelord anyways, and +2 to hit on most war machines and +3 on whichever you want to put in the work still seems pretty strong to me. Yeah more than half your army is dedicated to being a stationary firebase but you'll still have decent range and hitting power to pick apart your opponents army before it can do major damage to your screens and objective holders.

I'll have to double check the review i watched but wasn't there a greywater ability that gave a warmachine +1 to hit? And who said anything about taking 4 ballistas? Ordinator and 2 of them with some volleyguns will get the job done. And why wouldn't they get the range buff? They'd get the greywater keyword

I've been looking more towards anvilgard for starting a cities army, but a greywater combo that stuck out to me was ordinator + hurricanum + command ability for +3 to hit on a war machine and +2 on your others. Paired with the range buff and suddenly celestar ballistas and hellblasters are super deadly, with hellblasters even able to hit heroes on a 2+ with that +3 mod balancing out look out sir. Witch aelves may be annoying but pumping the hag giving them rerolls and battleshock immunity makes them much easier to deal with. Snipe the necromancer out of the skeleton blob, pop heroes out of a hearthguard battalion, megabosses and warchanters getting filled with lead. No buff piece is safe from from a 3d6 hellblaster with some accompanying handgunners or ballista fire.

They don't state it very clearly, but I believe the nagash we see on the table is a "shard" or "avatar" of nagash. Old bone boy just chills on his throne 24/7 like sigmar does and manifests these mini nagash's to go around and do stuff when the mortarchs ****** up. I could be remembering it wrong so feel free to correct me.

I posted my opinion on the smiles in the bonereapers thread but these guys are sentient and not just puppets like our usual skellis. They also serve under a mortarch that admits he enjoys his job,so it wouldn't be a surprise for some of that to rub off on his men. After all they've been at this for centuries, after a while you either become numb to what you do or learn to enjoy it. So I wouldn't be surprised if they crack some grins every time their generals deem the tithe to be unacceptable. Also they are literally souls in bone armour, literally deathcast. So it would be very nagash to have his constructs be twisted mirrors of sigmar's greatest creations, evil grins and laughing smiles to contrast the stoic masks worn by sigmars own creations. Nagash may come across as no nonesense and emotionless, but ****** with people is absolutely his guilty pleasure, much like the nighthaunt's eternal punishments are crule mockeries of the lives they lived, the bonereapers are a mockery of sigmar's past millennia's work and any little dig at the other gods he can get is one Nagash would probably take.

Since it's tied to the unit it is factored into the point cost, unlike LoN where it's tied to the heroes and their proximity so it's less of a tax on the unit itself, plus the summonable keyword helps create a clear category of units that can fall under, and to an extent require the mechanic to function as intended. Meanwhile necron units could absolutely work fine without reanimation or reanimation reworked but it's tax on their cost really hurts their performance. I could see a self repair of healing a wound (or more for larger constructs) while near one of the priest heroes if they go the route of min 2 wound models for the army.

I wouldn't want that, it's basically a worse version of deathly invocations and at least in 40k the existence of that rule makes points costing necrons really weird.

A lot of people don't like the smiles and grinning skulls but I kinda love them. They give a much more human feel to death in that these guys are sentient and not just puppets. They have been doing this job for millennia and serve a mortarch who in his own words enjoys his job. So it would make sense that their generals love for his work would rub off on his men and that they'd smile and grin every time he deems a cities tithe to be unworthy. They're a nice change of pace from scheming vampires, crazed ghouls and tortured souls. These are essentially deathcast, souls of warriors shoved in construct suits of bone, so their grins and twisted smiles make a nice contrast for the stoic masks worn by the stormcast. Almost like nagash where mocking sigmars greatest creations. Man i'm just hoping the next wave of model reveals gives us a morghast or similar monster hero, second infantry choice (preferably ranged) and a centerpiece monster. I also feel that these guys, being constructs will have a focus on 'repairing' wounds rather than the summoning or reviving that makes up the core mechanics of the other death factions.

There better be an allegiance ability or command ability called death and taxes.

I'm about 50/50 on it. The promotional material sets it up perfectly (pact of bones, tithe of bones, feast of bones) And soul wars was the start of a story arc set in shyish and introduced through box sets a new army and new models for an existing army. We may see a "feast of bones" event that kicks off the ghur story arc introducing the new death faction as well as new kits for ogors. It would be a cool trend to do this with every story arc and cycle the alliances involved (realmgate wars focused on chaos and order, soul wars focused on death and order, new arc focused on death and destruction, next arc on destruction and chaos (new orruks and update a god army like slaanesh mortals), then mix up for chaos and death (soulblight vs khorne for blood themed release?) or destruction and order(New or updated duardin vs new or updated orruks for the good old rivalry)) each arc beginning with a new army release and an update to a core army for the rival alliance. It's still too early to say this is the trend they're going with but it would make sense and would help each alliance get some time in the spotlight unlike 40k which focuses too heavily on imperium and chaos with aeldari as side characters and the other xenos as guest appearances.

Almost looks like something similar is coming down onto the other shoulder, kinda makes me thing it's some kind of headpiece or part of the outfit that extends out above or behind the head. Could even be part of a shoulder brace that supports the coffin on his back.

I actually could see this being part of the inspiration. A new religion (the worship of nagash) replacing the worship of the old death gods and with black pyramid iconography instead of sun iconography.

If coffin boy is the judge then maybe the mortarch is the mortarch of executions? Or maybe there will be an executioner unit. Or maybe there are multiple judges and the mortarch is the mortarch of judgement? Probably a new character at this rate but the "past life I was a general, now I am an emperor" Fits really well for krell and Vlad. As much as I don't want coffin boy to be the mortarch it would be very nagash to have vlad carry around the coffin of isabella as punishment for getting buddy buddy with Karl during the endtimes.

The points already been made but if you had any modifiers positive or negative, then reroll 1 rules wouldn't take effect if modifiers where applied before rerolls. Also there are technically 3 types of rerolls based on wording. "this model rerolls failed hit rolls" means you reroll all failed hit rolls iirespective of modifiers, "this model CAN reroll failed hit rolls" implies that you can choose to not reroll a dice if say a +1 mod would make it hit. and the funniest of all "this model can reroll rolls" for example the warpseer verminlord specifically says "this model may reroll save rolls" with no specification of fails, so technically it can reroll succesful rolls in anticipation that a modifier would cause it to fail.

I mean, summoning is one of those allegiance abilities, where slaanesh gets locus, summoning and exploding 6s others get a different set of abilities. Whether that be graveyards, 6's to ignore wounds and reviving units or the runes and lodges of fyreslayers or the myriad of tools sylvaneth can gain from their allegiances and groves. Summoning is one of the allegiance abilities, considering it separate from the allegiances list of abilities is treating it like isn't taking up the place of what could have been a different ability.