Frowny

This is super-cool but seems to have fallen off? I'd love to see more. I was pondering something similar myself.

Stormcast have giant bodies but their heads are sized the same as everything else. I've headswapped many things onto storm cast and it looks great. I think it would be fine.

I do think people are overblowing the fusiliers. The best buff on them is definitely the warforger. However he is also just generally excellent with many other things. The master of ballistics for +1/+1 is also great but only affects one unit. After that you start needing other things to make the most out of it like greatwater for all out attack on a second unit. But at some point they have additional costs, giving up command traits or forcing a sub faction. You definitely can do it, but you can also do other cool things like 6 wizards at +2 to cast on 3d6 etc. I see one unit of 20-30 and a warforger in every list, since they are generally useful but once I start looking at second units I have to decide if I want to give up hallowheart or want to commit to a hurricanum etc. To buff them.

I think the problem is they gave all the griffon everything to storm cast. Also the dragon everything....

If they are to fit in AOS, I think they need to change dramatically, not just shuffle around a few kits. If AOS is bringing fantasy to 11, Goats are like a 2. To be an 11, they need to either go whole hog-wild with different animals, or maybe go all-in on the mutation side. One direct- Animals Elephant heavy infantry? What about a Cygor but a giraffe? Why not antelope cavalry? Dolphin headed soldiers? Lion-headed hunter soldiers. The sky is literally the limit. Another Direction-Spawn Everything horrifically mutated, think an army of possessed type models, all bursting with tentacles and extra teeth.

4 rhinox with the spell to become monsters each charging 2d6 for the allegiance ability.

One thing I wonder about for the shooty list is if you are still better off in one of the other tribes rather than the shooty one? The guns are fine as is on the warscroll and +1 on the charge mortals is sweet, and hitting someone with 8d6 mortals on 3+ with the spell if they get close is brutal. Should average to like... 18 or so? It also helps the stonehorn you are probably running.

15 bow snakes will kill about 1 mournfang in unleash hell. That doesn't sound terrible but then remember it's in your turn while being charged by a dedicated anti-unleash hell unit, and you are still taking real damage.

I gotta say I'm a little annoyed comparing ogres to the new slaves to darkness. For comparison, mournfangs cost basically the same per model as varanguard and with near identicle output and speed on their base profile. Varanguard gain 3+ save, 4+ mw save, fight twice, marks, eye of the gods-except the eye of the gods, these are all consistent and strong base stat boosts that help in nearly all situations. In comparison, the mournfangs gain very situational abilities- the erratic everwinter mortals and the weak ogre charge for a few incidental MW, turning off unleash hell and -1 to wound vs. shooting. Those things are all fine but but why not just have a better save? -1 to wound vs shooting is fine but you could just be -1 to wound all the time with Nurgle. Varanguard are as brave as mournfangs while eating and as fast as them while not eating. There are also far more buffs to stack on the varanguard than the mournfang. Oh well. Beggars can't be choosers i guess and I'm glad finally chaos warriors are to be feared again

How much are 2 mournfangs now? They seem to have a lot more play. Leadbelchers also seem much improved with the better range charge and shots. They can still contribute while holding an objective with their guns.

Deep strikes are often best just to contest objectives. Maybe just some marauder horsemen or marauders or cultists (with mark) or something. You want them midgame to take a back objective or be a deployable screen. The threat of them is as useful as their actual use since as long as they are in reserve, your enemy can't leave backfield objectives alone, so your 100pt unit pins his 100 pt unit but yours has the added advantage of then coming down midfield to take a different objective or screen something else out

Nurgle warriors or knights with the banner. Unmovable and versatile Chosen+slaanesh to get them where they need to be with the run+charge Khorne knights Varanguard All seem excellent. There are also a lot of great chaff type units which are useful. On the heros front Chaos sorcerer.lord on foot- the spell is just so good, and a 6+ward is still useful Karakadrak Belakor Archeon All seem useful, obviously not all of them but i think every list will have at least one chaos sorc lord on foot. Mystic shield is amazing for this army as is demon power.

Gluttons seem back on the menu. While they went up slightly, +rend,2 inch reach, the better charge, and +1 attack makes them way killier. For a 8% price increase or so, they gain +40% killiness or so, and the banners are way better too. I still think most lists will have a single stonehorn. The -1 wound trait is great and you want something to carry your throat/artifact etc. Something like Kragnos Frostlord in stonehorns 3*6 gluttons Might be interesting. I think that fits barely.

Have we seen the furies warscrolls? Also I'd love links to some of the new monsters. I always wanted a furies heavy Std list and now belakors legion might finally actually do that!

My personal hope is that ogres go to 5 wounds but maybe with a worse save. The bucket o'wounds defence see interesting compared to all the save stacking out there.

I think the biggest winners are the knights. While not as sturdy as warriors, they are still pretty sturdy, and while not as killy as chosen, they are still pretty killy. A nice balance in the middle, without over investing in one direction. Couple with a good move value, the option to take a banner if desired, and the ability to fight in 2 Ranks (unlike varanguard) for a bigger unit i think will make them versatile staples. They also carry buffs really well, be it the khorne mark (since they are likely to be charging), the slaanesh mark (since with run+ charge and their move they are very likely to get turn 1 charges) or the Nurgle banner +mystic shield, to stuff the opponent in their deployment zone with 30 wound 2+ save ignoring rend 1 and mw resistant brick wall from the start of the game. By extension, knights of the empty throne may be solid, since then you don't need slaanesh mark to get the T1 charge reliably.

@idn0971 @Lord Krungharr i don't think you should move on chaff or lists or purchases- there is an absolute ton of stuff we haven't seen yet, almost all the chaff, most of the monsters, possibly prayers. Many of the warcry warbands might get new or updated scrolls. Something like the start collecting seems like a good safe investment to have something to assemble but beyond that I'd wait for the actual battletome

@idn0971 I think a lot of lists will look like yours, fundamentally 3 different hammers/anvil units and support. Some thoughts- i think you want some cheap throwaway units. You may need to hold back objectives, have screens or gum things up. I might drop the Lord on foot and the exalted hero and get some marauder horsemen, cultists or furies or something. The Nurgle warriors seem excellent and near impossible to shift. However they are slow. Would you be happier with more knights? I'm unsure but that's the kind of tradeoff i imagine we make a lot, which 3 big hammers are the best, how much durability (warriors) vs. speed (knights) vs killiness (chosen)

That is some amazing analysis. Thank you. Unrelatedly i didn't realize saurus knights were that good. More generally, your tables seem pretty sensitive to the armor of the target and rend of the attacks, and using all out defence or mystic shield. It seems like some of these guys might look way better with those easily available buffs, compared to like zombies or something. Another the this battletome will make you ask is 'what is too much'. For example, 10 chosen fighting twice will kill almost anything. Maybe that's overkill and you'd be better off with knights (slightly less killy bit faster) or even warriors for more sturdiness. On the other hand, 20 warriors is very very sturdy. So sturdy that they may not die regardless but maybe you'd be happier with chosen or knights (who are still pretty sturdy) who are killier and/or more mobile.

This is super cool. thank you. Can you add Varanguard with enscorcelled weapons? Those seem like the obvious pick to me. +1 wound on the spears you can get elsewhere and whole the extra rend is great, 5 attacks vs 3 makes them hugely better against most targets. I can't see myself ever taking the spears. The other one I'd love to see is gorebeast chariots.

I had read it as needing the target unit to be within 9 as well since it gives a casting range and usually you can't pick something outside casting range? Still seems like it need an faq badly

My mistake as well. I thought it was an 'i can't read these very blurry PDFs' situations. Anther reason you are right Is that many units already have or can access the 6+ ward. Oracular vision from the sorc lord gives.it, as do 2 eye of the gods rolls, and the demon prince has one now baseline. a single sorceror Lord like before seems like an auto include just for his warscrolls spell. There are a few possible saving graces and use cases 1) it's possible there is a prayer page we aren't seeing. For example, the idolator Lord command trait makes a unit a priest but so far there are no prayers for him to use. This makes.me think there may be a few prayers. 2) 18'' is pretty much your entire army. At his current cost, and assuming nothing already has a ward save (like archeon), he provides a ~20% boost in survivability to your whole army for only ~10% the cost of your army is not the worst. And the profile seems ok on its own. That's somewhat useable I agree with you though. A useable profile that will see some play on its own in armies marked toward a specific god where it will always have targets. For example an all Nurgle army might want one as the ward goes nicely with their goal of being surviveable, the Nurgle bonus of -1 to be wounded is always usefulf and the Nurgle prayer is always useful.

One possible use i can imagine is in legion of the first prince. Since wizards don't really need the combat buffs they might as well take tzeentch for the free spell and spell immunity (so they don't get sniped by endless spells). Then, if the niche spell would be useful, any undivided unit can be tzeentch for the turn (to be targeted by the spell) and blinked to a new location. It gets most of the utility of a niche ability without investing more in it. It's a little bit of a weirdly worded spell, blinking a unit from within 9 to still within 9. It almost seems like it needs an faq? It's very different from other teleport spells. For example most other teleports you can't move but this one maybe you can and should be able to since it's so limited otherwise?

Note that the save on ppl with shields is only against mortal wounds, not regular wounds. The warshrine one also stops regular wounds (as do the rolls on eye of the gods) so they are still useful.

I would read it as +4 wounds but I'm no expert. Still, I think some of the other traits are too good to pass up. The extra heroic action seems quite good for example and even the 'use any god ability' i think is actually quite strong since some of the effects are excellent but situational so even one use is great. Turning off wards one time when you really need it for example is excellent. We haven't seen any of the monsters but that one definitely has potential.