Magnus The Blue
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Everything posted by Magnus The Blue
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I've been thinking about what are best hard core competitive build is at 2k and come up with the following Great bray Shaman *3 300 3 * 6 Enlightened 840 8 * 5 Centigor 640 3 * 10 Ungor 180 Germids 40 So 3 killer hammer units, 3 casts/dispells a game and lots of wounds (197). Obviously dependant on the Enlightened to do the heavy lifting in terms of killing stuff but the Centigors can keep up and protect then. 17 drops, so won't get choice of turn one very often (ever) but with lots of screens and massive charge range it should be happy going first or second. I'd probably got for Grave Spawn for the free spawns and command ability. Only major weakness is low hero count, so might have to play quite defensively with them. Could possibly drop one/two units of centigors for a Beastlord and/or another shammy, but love the object claiming potential of 40 lightening fast goats. Any thoughts or ideas for your own 'killer' build?
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Yes, I think I'll have to really pay attention during deployment. I'd drop my Dragon Orgors and Centigors first, so by the time I have to make a choice on ambushing I will know if I have first turn and the extent to which my opponent is trying to Zone out my Ambush. The home is that that if my opponent is spread out then I can ambush the ranged units turn one and combine them with the Dragon Ogors to carve out space for the Bestigors. Also, as you say Savage encirclement reduces the risk of ambush being completely blocked (units can always ambush near my herd stone shammy and go straight for encirclement. In theory anyway, will hopefully try it out next week.
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Soooo, being thinking of trying out a Desolating Beastherd for a change and came up with the following 2k Dusk Walkers list: 6 Dragon Orgors (4 Crushers, 2 Glaives) 6 Dragon Orgors (4 Crushers, 2 Glaives) 5 Centigors 5 Centigors Desolating Beastherd (containing all of the following Beastlord with Volcanic Axe Shaman General Shaman with trash duskwalker artifact. 30 Bestigors 30 Ungor Raiders 10 Ungor 1 Chariot 1 Cygor Idea is simple, Dragon Ogors, Centigor, one shaman and the regular Ungor deploy while everything else ambushes. Mostly I will want the Beastigors to come on with a shaman and the beastlord, while the Cygor hangs with the raiders to focus on taking out support. Anyone tried anything like this out? Any thoughts on optimising it (except removing the Cygor, unreliable but can't wait to try and headshot some wizards (two hits on 6s, yum yum yum).
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Horn and bull are solid in the right list. The flock are a bit situational for me. Not any good against death or demons.
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Hey all, Just went 4-1 at the Warhammer World Throne of Skulls event with my Phantasmagora of Tzeentch gravespawn list. Only loss was by one victory point against skaven with all the tricks (plague monks, warp lightening cannons, Warpseer, warp lightening storm...), which would have been a victory if we'd had time to play 4th turn. My list: Dragon Orgor Shaggoth (general, Hailstorm, Horn of the Tempest) Beastlord: Mutating Gnarl-Blade Great Bray Shaman (Vicous Stranglethorns) 2 * 6 Dragon Orgors (each with 4 Crushers and 2 Glaives) 2* 5 Centigors 10 Centigors 6 Enlightened on Disks 10 Ungors 10 Ungor Raiders 10 Bestigors All in part of the Battalion for a one drop army. General things I learnt: 1) Beasts of Chaos can absolutely compete with some of the best lists out their. I play against several strong lists I was worried about (Skaven, Grimgast Reapers, Ariel) and never felt I my list wasn't strong enough. Grislegor and Eel list might change my mind 2) Centigors are AMAZING, 80 points for a super fast, 10 wound unit with 4+ saves in combat and decent attacks is just too good to be true. No objective is safe if you have a unit of these sitting near a Shaman and waiting to unleash a 30"+ charge across the battlefield (14" + 3" + D6" + 1" + 2D6"). 3) Horn of the Tempest is surprisingly good (if you running lots of Dragon Ogors), with this fast core to my force I could easily outflank almost any opponent. Combine brilliantly with Enlightened on disks: Ogors hold the unit in place, Tzaangor hit the flank and unleast the pain. 4) Phantasmagora of Tzeentch is surprisingly good, sometimes. Obviously one dropping is great (and won me several games) but having a massive quantity of unbinds is actually really useful against some opponents, I'm looking at you skaven. The only unit that didn't really pull it's weigh was the Bestigors, who generally Ambushed (alone), failed the charge then got taken out by incidental wounds and missile fire. They definitively need more support to be worth while as an ambush force, might be worth the beast lord going with them in future, but never tried this out.
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The FAQ makes an important clarification. Tzaangors are not Battleline in a BoC army without a Tzaangor Shaman, but ARE battleline in an other army regardless of who the general is (only really matter in DoT or Grand Alliance forces).
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Anyone had any joy with Cygors? I'm thinking of putting together a Darkwalkers list with desolating beast-herd battalion and wonder if a Cygor might actually work. Thinking of mainly using it as a mobile wizard sniper. 4+ to hit is a bit ****** but with the reroll against wizards and two hits on 6s, I recon it might well be a nasty surprise for my opponent if a little unreliable. Surely 80%+ of list have some sort of wizard, especially given that Overlords and Fyre Slayers aren't very popular at the moment (Khorne will soon bit a different story).
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Watching a Doom and Darkness vid the other day and saw a DoT list with a Great Bray Shaman (from Beast of Chaos book), but can't see how that would be legal (wasn't playing the Fantasmagora of Fate battalion), DoT can't ally with Brayherd and the Shaman can't have the Tzeentch Keyword (without the battalion). Am I missing something or was the list illegal? Would love to have that movement boost for Tzaangors and cheap caster, but not so much to get a full 200 point battalion for it.
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True, but even at 680, 183 wounds from one turn of combat is just rude. On the dual blades Vs blades and staves, I think the main considerations are 1) how big your units are and 2) how many Plague Furnaces your running. big units and those supported with Furnaces are going to do better with Staves, small/unsupported units are better with dual blades. This aside I think the main issue pure Clan Pestilence list are facing is getting around the board and putting early pressure on opponents. Gnaw wholes help a bit and Veminlords are obviously much faster than anything else we have, but other than that what tricks to we have to stop being out manoeuvred? -Filling the board with bodies is a solution of sorts (5+ units of 40 plague monks), but pushing 200+ models around isn't my idea of fun. -Plague Catapults give us an option of early pressure, but feel over priced compared to our other options and become really bad against any opponent without units with 10+ models. -Magic is another option, but we rely on a master-clan general and the Verminlord as only source of casting. I think Warp Lightening Vortex is a great way to 'encourage' enemies to come out of their deployment zone. I wonder if it's worth going for Thanquil as general and stilling him next to a Gnaw hole turn one for +3 to cast it. and a solid centrepiece for the army (Master of Magic Verminlord is a cheaper option with +2 to cast). Thoughts?
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Just did the maths and a fully buffed unit of 40 monks (both furnace prays, verminlord command trait, most offensive banner and musician, on the charge): if all of them get too attack they will (on average) cause 183 wounds to a 5+ save unit! Sure this will almost never happen, but still quite good for a 240 point unit. Should really be 10+ points a model. Still a healthy 43 wounds on the charge without any buffs (all attacking and with banner/instrument).
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Yeah, I don't like those models either, thinking of using plague monks with some weapon swaps and a nice dark paint jobs for night runners and maybe some of the blood bowl models for gutter runners.
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Anyone else thinking of a pure Eshin force?
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Seems overdue to have a dedicated Eshin thread. The new book bring with it more ways to kill-kill. I'm not an expert by any means, but here is my first bash at a list. Verminlord Warpseer: General (master of magic), Aetherquartz broach. Verminlord Deceiver Deathmaster: Warpweeper Stars Sniktalon Battalion: ( Deathmaster 3 * 40 Nightrunners 2 * 5 Gutter runners ) Warp Lightening Vortex Soulsnare Shackles 2000 points on the nose. The idea is to use magic and the hard to kill Warpseer (hopefully Skitterleaped into the heart of the enemy turn one) to lock down a large portion of the enemies army, so it take be taken apart piecemeal. Obvious combo of Sniktalon and Verminlord deceiver's command ability to get rerolls to hit and would for a large section of the army. Will probably struggle with very fast armies like beasts and Khorne who can quickly bring their forces to bear but should make a game of most matchups. Thoughts/comments welcomed.
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Unless I'm mistaken the list doesn't have enough battleline (Gors), as the bestigors are only battleline with a Beastlord General. With that in mind and your maining Brayherd forcus, I'd swap your Knowing eye and shaman for Beastlord general with the Volcanic Axe, or go Gravespawn and Mutating Gnarlblade (free spawns are great in small games). If not I'd probably swap the Gors and Razor Gors for 2 *10 ungors for screening and fulfilling battleline.
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One nice trick is to use the Disk from the chariot to convert up either blue scribes (letting you still make both the exalted flamer and herald on foot) or a herald on disk. Both versions of the chariot are in a bad place at the moment, but both blue scribes and herald on disk are solid. If you get your hands on some flying bases it's also easy enough to use the screamers bulling the chariot as separate screamers.
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Enlightened on disks are just amazing right now. Especially if you have plenty of chaff to protect them. Will probably see a price hike in the next Generals handbook, but they'd have to go up a huge amount to become bad. The damage output when they have their re-rolls active is unreal and they aren't even that squishy (for the points cost). Skyfires are a different kettle of fish entirely, possibly slightly over-costed at the moment but they give you lots of options that Tzeentch doesn't otherwise get (massive range shooting and fast counter-attacking force in CC.). Another option if you have any spare Tzaangor bits is to build Skyfires (on disks) and use the spare spear arms and head bits to make some Enlightened on foot (also a good option). Basically, it's all good
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Yes and yes, but don't forget the Doombull wouldn't be able to take any general ability from the Tzeetch book, they require key words it doesn't have.
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It's not crazy broken like it was, but combined with the benefits of a very low drop army and extra cost/artifact it's still solid. A big benefit is that it migates on of the main disadvantages of a magic heavy army, get given first turn and not being able to do much damage. The free movement from swapping units means your horrors are casting turn one and screamer can easily cap objectives deep in enemy territory. I usually use a tanky LoC (Gryph-feather and/or incoporial) who is great to hold up many types of unit before switching out if needed elsewhere. Pinks can be switch onto opponents objectives very early (turn one with changling) so they have to be dealt.with, giving you plenty of blues without spending resources on killing them yourself. Enemy hero's will find it hard to hide from the magical onslaught, it's rare for my opponents to have any hero's left by turn 3. You can fit in a unit of Tzaangors or enlightened with it in 2 k points, if having a solid combat unit is important to you.
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I have found change-host be be a solid option. The battalion ability is a complete game changer and lots of the demon unit are under rated. Not going to be wiping out other armies but they are amazing at objectives.
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Similar 6, 4 crushers, 2 Glaives. With Gravespawn, so optimised to get the most from the command ability. Would just to 3s with paired ancient weapons otherwise
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Check the warscroll builder on the Warhammer community site for the correct points. Basically everything in the DoT has had a price change at this point, generally massive points increases. 😥
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The big problem here is relying too much on 10 strong Tzaangor units for punch. Once they lose two models they lose the extra attach and become 'meh' in combat. If/when this happens to all your Tzaangor, you've only got two offensive threats left (Enlightened and Skyfires). Personally I'm not a big fan of Tzaangor shamans, sooo expensive for a squishy unit that can't hold it's own in combat. One is probably justified in this list, given all the Tzaangor, but two (combined with the battalion) leaves you short on points for offensive threats. So I'd drop one shaman and upgrade the Tzaangor from 3*10 to 2*20 to give you a solid block with plenty of bite.
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Yup, there are some other solid one drop armies but they are definitely in the minority. Lol, the last thing Centigors need is move movement, with a shaman they are already charging an average of 28.5"! I do like the idea of a Nurgle Centigor force, but afraid I'm Tzeentch to the bone, so not one for me.
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Ok, version two of the list. Lost the command point and one unit of Bestigors, but that allows me to fit in a unit of ungor raiders to help push forward pre-turn one and bump a Centigor unit to 10. Having played a few small practice games with Centigors, I'm absolutely in love with them. Beginning to suspect the ultimate Beast of Chaos list would basically be 3 * 40 Ungor, Beast Lord, Great Shaman and as many Centigor as you can fit in (maybe a battalion). But anyway, next try: Dragon Orgor Shaggoth, General: Unravelling Aura, Artefact: Horn of the Tempest, Spell: Hailstorm, 180Beast Lord, Artefact: Mutating Gnarleblade 90Great Bray Shaman, Spell: Vicious stranglethornes 1005 Centigors 805 Centigors 8010 Centigors 1606 Dragon Ogors 4 Crushers, 2 Glaives, Battleline 2806 Dragon Ogors 4 Crushers, 2 Glaives, Battleline 2806 Enlightened on disks 28010 Ungors Mauls, Battleline 6010 Ungor Raiders, Battleline 8010 Bestigors 120Phantasmagoria of Fate Battalion 200
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Lol, sure thing. You roll off to see who picks deployment zone, the person who picks also deploys the first unit. Then alternate deploying units one at a time until both players are finished. The player who finished first gets to choose who goes first in the first round. The important thing is that when deploying a battalion you can deploy all units in that battalion at the same time, so for my army list and others that are entirely in one battalion, you will almost always get choice of first turn. The system you described is (almost) how it worked in AoS 1.0, so it's not uncommon for people to get the wrong end of the stick. As of AoS 2.0 one of the major advantages of battalions is more control over priority for turn one: a game-winning advantage against some armies.
