Pyrescribe

<grabs the mic> Midas the Mean <shoves it in gaping mouth for feedback>

By my reckoning, there are two types of wargamers: wargamers who play to hang out with friends, and wargamers who play to dominate their peers. I'd say 90% of wargamers fall into the first category, but the 10% who play to dominate are generally quite noticeable. They're very vocal about the injustices cruel fate thrusts upon their fortunes in game. Emotional outbursts like this occur because game result don't align with their beliefs about who is better. While AoS is hardly the first game to have randomized elements that can rob the most skillful play its due, thee double turn bakes it into the game in the most dramatic way possible. Those who cannot handle the dissonance experienced from having a win robbed from them by a single dice roll simply self-select out of the meta. They go back to "better" games that more accurately reflect player skill differentials. What makes AoS unique is that the key skill as a player is humility, rather than intellect. The double turn, along with big impacts built into statistical extremities, make this a game that is both incredibly random, but where decisions are still extremely impactful. If you game to show you have a big brain, you probably dislike the double turn. If you game to have a good time, it's just part of the fun. FWIW, I don't think there's anything wrong with playing to dominate, or to demonstrate your big brain. In 12 years of Warmachine I met lots of wonderful people whose sole purpose is to win games. I just know a lot of them would (or have expressed how much they) hate the double turn.

They always say, "new year, new army." I scoffed until a blizzard came and along with it came three Beastclaw Raiders boxes. In trying to round out my collection, I not only want an army from each Grand Alliance, but one that is themed for each of the four seasons; and to have a diversity of playstyles. Because I have Lumineth (Autumn) and Slaves to Darkness (Summer), I decided to be a basic bro and go with winter Ogors. That means I'll have to make a Spring themed Death army someday. Having an army of fast, big multiwound monsters also helps round out the control style of the Lumineth and the grinding attrition of my S2D. I've been lucky to play five games already, and only lost once so far. I've been taking my time converting and accessorizing this army and it's just a tremendous amount of fun. Did you start a new army this year? Why did you do it? How is it coming along? Did it fall short of, meet, or exceed your expectations?

I agree with everything here. However, I do think 6th edition was the best edition of any Warhammer GW ever produced. They went into it with a coherent vision and they largely stuck to it through the entire edition. Additionally, it was the only one where literally every army got an army book, in addition to the introduction of Tomb Kings and Ogre Kingdoms. These army books? Also the best. Why? Several were subjectively narrated by a member of the race. Dark Shadows was so exciting. Storm of Chaos, for all its flaws in execution, was an absolute ton of fun for the people involed (especially at da-warpath). In retrospect, it was a real privilege to live through that edition. So much fun.

1) It's a luxury hobby. I can afford it, so I buy what I want. If I can't afford it, I'll find something else to do. 2) The nature of my work makes things like rules bloat understandable in a capitalistic retail model. 3) Playing with an underpowered/old army gives unique insight and experience (and bragging rights). 4) GW has had this established pattern of behavior for longer than I've been alive. I spent a dozen years playing any game other than GW games. I came back for the # 1 reason I tolerate all these issues you've listed. 5) If I MUST have something, and I can afford it, I buy it. Otherwise it can wait. Or someone will sell it at a tolerble price on the open market. 6) Mistakes happen. Remember that apartment building that collapsed in Miami and killed a bunch of tenants? That's a debacle. Nerds raging over unclear or contradictory rules is...comical, honestly. 7) It's only FOMO if you let it be. The #1 reason I put up with all this is because my favorite people to play games with play Warhammer. It's been a part of my life since I was a wee lad, and they've been along for much of the journey.

At this point I love the double turn. The best part about getting double turned by your opponent is the surety of knowledge that nothing can stand between you and your next turn. In my experience, unless you have an outstanding offensive double turn, the tide of battle can quickly turn against you. It can also be just what the underdog needs to get back into the game. It wouldn't be AoS without it. If I wanted to play a high-skill-cap game with clean rules to measure my nerd-****** against my foes, I'd play Infinity or something.

For the two armies that I currently play, Slaves to Darkness and Lumineth, cool new models certainly played a factor. However I would say the #1 consideration for me now is the ease with which I believe I can get a fully painted force ready. The Lumineth were an exception to this, as I really had no choice in the matter of starting them--I simply had to. But for Slaves to Darkness, or the Ogor Mawtribes I'll start later this year, or for factions I play in other games (like Shasvastii in Infinity), it's the paint scheme and methodology that drives my interest. All in all, the hobby side takes precedence over rules. Are the models cool? Do I have a defined and scalable painting schema in mind for them?

Easy. Just keep buying new armies lol Back when I was a lad, it was just me and my best friend. We nearly exclusively played each other from 5th-7th edition, and still the vast majority of our games in 8th were against each other. He played nothing but Bretonnians, and when Bretonnians were no longer a part of Warhammer, he quit wargaming entirely. I played Orcs and Goblins 80% of the time, although I would start a new army every couple of years. I'm not entirely sure starting a new army really kept stuff fresh. It was for me, personally, to be painting something other than greenskins. But all those years, what kept my friend and I playing was the story that existed between our armies. The rivalry between Agravain and Morgit was LEGENDARY in our minds, spanning over a decade. In truth, things did get stale at times, as far as Warhammer was concerned. But being best friends (an activity at the time, more of a title now), there was plenty else to do. Stuff like reading Black Library novels would often spark inspiration to get a campaign going again. In such a setup, my only recommendation would be to not force you guys to play Warhammer if one of you isn't feeling it. It's here for fun, to relax and to connect. Your models won't be going anywhere if you lose interest for a bit.

Hex Bases > Triangles > Square > Round Lumineth aren't overtooled and need the Hyshian Twinstones restored to their former efficacy (at a higher points value) Non-BoC Chaos is in fact Lawful Evil

My most frequent opponents are Stormcast, Maggotkin, Orruk Warclans (Ironjawz), Kharadron Overlords, Blades of Khorne, Sons of Behemat, with occasional Seraphon and Gloomspite showing up. We have no Death players. Nor am I facing Archaon or Morathi. I take my wardens in units of 20, so they can at least fight back if they take a truly devastating charge. Their strike-back is usually enough to ensure the enemy's numbers are sufficiently reduced so that they can survive another round of combat. Protection of Hysh is absolutely essential, and it's one of the reasons I play Zaitrec so often. If it's absolutely essential (and it usually is), I might use the Shrine's re-roll cast to get the spell off with a Lord Regent or Cathallar who is bunkered in one of the Warden blobs. 4+ isn't great, but between All Out Defense, Mystic Shield and Aethyrquartz, we can do a lot to make sure that you're rolling 3+ on -2 rend attacks. You want to have Lifeswarm in the mix too. D3 Wardens returning per turn averages out to 20 over the course of a game (although this never happens).

No. My Wardens are rockstars.

I'm not Stanning for GW, but I don't think the fact that there's a global pandemic should reasonably factor into consumer reactions to anti-consumerist behavior when it comes to luxury goods. Assault and battery is bad. Is assault and battery during a pandemic somehow worse? Should it be prosecuted differently? If GW wants to shoot themselves in the foot in the long run by raising barriers to entry, that's on them. Gatekeeping by the player community is bad, if the desire is to grow and sustain a healthy community. Gatekeeping by a company is amoral, and its efficacy can only be evaluated by performance.

Unsympathetic, aloof Lumineth player here... Just play the Objectives and secure your Battle Tactics.

Am I the only one who isn't irked by perceived anti-consumer behavior during a global pandemic when the company in question produces boutique luxury goods? Like, hiking the price of baby formula is one thing. Making warbarbies harder to access is another. Like, if you're weighing the purchase of a limited edition Boxed Game or a designer handbag versus making rent or medical bill payments....I don't know what to say to that.

I just (2 months ago but who's counting) assembled 40 marauders with some simple head swaps to make the models bearable to look at. Despite the range of poses and arm options, they all ended up looking the same anyway (like ******). Assembling them was a lot of fun, though. I did a lot of small conversions here and there, and the experience of assembly without having to consult an instruction manual was therapeutic. As for removal of loadout options in the gear, I don't think it's that big of an issue. It certainly makes the game easier to balance, not that balance is something GW cares to actually achieve (it would hurt sales). I'm just learning to accept what comes my way, and to go with the flow. I think in practice models do have a shelf life and it's unreasonable to expect that a release or modeling option from decades ago ought to still be playable in the current format.

I'm not playing remotely close to the highest level, so I'm having fun putting blobs of warriors and knights (with Varanguard) on the table. I agree with the general sentiment however. To be honest, now that Stormcast tower over Chaos Warriors, I get a strange underdog vibe in my gut--like the Chaos Warriors had to strike a bargain with the gods at the cost of their soul just to be able to stand up to the onslaught of the oppressive Sigmarites.

Well I took this list against KO with Gotrek on Veins of Ghur and pulled out a solid victory. Took grasping armor, dropped the Doom Sigil, and switched out the warlord enhancement from a triumph to an Arcane Tome for the Chaos Lord. My initial worry was that I wouldn't be able to get enough board coverage, but two blobs of 20 warriors with two units of knights riding around seems good enough. Pretty happy with this list overall, hoping to get more games in.

The 6 vs 3 coherency thing is pretty dependent on positioning and terrain, in my experience. On paper, it looks to be a hinderance, but in practice, ideal conditions rarely show up anyway. You don't happen to be in Ann Arbor, do you?

It's 2000 on the dot. Dropping it does make sense then. I wasn't really thinking too hard. Thanks for the feedback!

What is it about the sigil that I'm missing that makes people say it's bad? Is it the possibility it'll do nothing if the opponent gets a double turn? Are extra attacks just not that important for StD? I'm mainly a lumineth player, and people say the same about the nerfed twin stones. While they are no longer an auto include, I find it has a place in very specific lists.

I mostly played Ravagers and Cabalists in 2nd ed. This list is very close to the precise selection of models I'm interested in putting on the table, but I'm unsure of its viability. Knights of the Empty Throne 2000 pts Hold the Line Ghur Warlord Battalion (Heroes and Knights) Hunters of the Heartlands (Chaos Warriors) 6x Varanguard: General, Wall of Cursed Iron, Amulet of Destiny, Tzeentch Chaos Lord on foot, Tzeentch Chaos Sorcerer on foot, Tzeentch, Mask of Darkness 20 Chaos Warriors: hw+shd, Tzeentch 20 Chaos Warriors: hw+shd, Tzeentch 5 Chaos Knights: lances, Tzeentch Chaos Warshrine, Tzeentch, Heal Eight-Fold Doom Sigil Triumphs: Inspired, Indomitable (Warlord) 149 Wounds

Glad I plan on doing an Alarith army for PTG.

Well, I had a long pause due to real life. Finally got my second unit of archers tabletop ready. Now to double up on everything! I'm just getting started y'all

I was thinking of 'ard boys with orruk shields, but I forgot that was just another FNP save. Ah well, sorry for wasting thread space.

Oh ******, wounds are allocated after saves? What about instances where there are units with mixed armaments/armor saves?