Scurvydog

Went to a 1 day 3 game tournament this weekend, standard 2k matched play, playing Tectonic interference, Feral Foray, Apex Predators. My list was Ironsunz with 2 MKs (general with master of magic and arcane tome and a tanky boy with amulet and smelly un), 6 gruntas, 10 brutes, 2x5 ard boyz and 2 warchanters. Game 1 was against Stormcast, with 6+3 longstrike raptors, 4 fulminators, relictor, prime, battlemage and lib screen. This was nasty, as I was forced to deploy far back, in order to minimize potential turn 1 damage from raptor double shooting in the hero phase and teleporting fulminators. Deplying far back forced him to teleport his raptors at least, so the fulminators had to wait a turn. My MK without amulet of course died turn 1 due to the 9 raptors. He put down the prime to 12" charge my gruntas to keep them in place. Managed to kill the prime in my turn. Living MK killed liberator screens and tagged the fulminators, which was a movement mistake on his part. MK lost some wounds to unleash hell. He won priority roll and killed 2 gruntas and did some more damage to the last MK. In combat his lacked fulminators got the MK to 2 wounds, then he killed them all back, but got hit by 2 MWs from them exploding on death and failed both 5+ wards... such is life... In my turn I managed to get my brutes into combat, and the gruntas finally got into his raptors. Despite killing 2 on impact, unleash still hurt a lot. Brutes managed to wipe his remaining heroes and the remaining 2 gruntas killed the 4 raptors while locking the remaining 3 in combat. Opponent conceded as he only had those left and I still had 1 grunta and all my brutes, ardboyz and warchanters alive and ahead on points (which ardboys had been sitting on while he castled). Game 2 was against more pew pew (are we playing 40k now?), this time 3 foxes and 30 sentinels, you know the deal. Feral Foray was dangerous as he could burn my objectives from round 2 with 36" move foxes. Against a 1 drop so he took first turn. By a miracle my generals master of magic allowed me to unbind lambent light, which caused the sentinels and foxes combined to only get him to 1 wound remaining in the end, even after a fox charged him. MKs cant do anything to foxes except for stomp, as they pile 2,9" away and forces the MK to only pile in 1", so none of the attacks can reach. I chose to play aggressive and got my remaining forces all up in his business, as sitting back and chasing foxes while getting shot was not an option. Tanky MK got away with the unleash decently, while brutes and gruntas got in to clear all screens in front of sentinels. Next round he won the roll of (darn it), and even despite some healing back to 7 wounds, the general MK got shot down and 3 gruntas got shot down as well. I had serious issues with CP, as he of course had total eclipse. I had used my warlord though to stack up to 4 CP. I had him trapped though and spent 2 CP in the end of his charge to charge in the gruntas with the ironsunz command, they of course died to unleash, but brutes chargedi n as well (thanks to MK command), and I gave them a good kickin, without wards they went down fast. The rest was cleanup and I managed to end up with 27-17 score with only Severith alive on his end and only 1 objective in my end was not burned, crazy game! Game 3 was against Morathi and bowsnakes. I was beginning to get tired of shooting at this point Apex predators was also terrible for me, with Morathi being immortal and capping 2 objectives turn 1. Major clutch here was he failed his teleport spell, so snakes was out of range to hero phase shoot, they could only reach my gruntas in the shooting phase to kill 2. In his charge phase I counter charged little morathi and put in the 3 wounds I needed for the turn to his dismay. In my turn things got crazy, as I double moved flanked up my MKs with warchanter buffs, and pushed brutes up past shadow queen in the center to engage witch elf screens. I popped Waagh and got some juicy charged, allowing my tanky MK to get into the snakes, but was forced to tag the 20 WE unit too. The other MK got a 13" charge and landed behind the other screen of WE, to tag them and a hag. Brutes engaged 10 WE screen too. Murder happened and wiht my inspired triumph my MK killed all the bowsnakes, which triggered my brutes to kill the 10 WE screen, which triggered the other MK to kill the hag and 13 WE, which triggered the Gruntas to put 3 damage into Morathi... At that point it was pretty much GG. Round 2 he took turn and most of the other stuff died, Morathi tried to play big and leave the obj and charge the non tanky MK, but whiffed and took 3 more damage back. My turn all of his stuff was dead, while I had no primary points yet, that didnt matter, as it was a complete tabling at bottom 2 and he got 0 kill points from me. All in all interesting enough to see how Ironjawz did against some pretty nasty lists with a lot of shooting. Losing a MK outright before having a turn sucks, but seems required to be sure to at least have a MK at all, and also forces a lot of resources into trying to bring them down. In the second game the clutch unbind of lambent light bought me a turn against his shooting too. I am not too sure about running master of magic and arcane tome though, even if it did technically win me the 2nd game perhaps. Looking at sentinels and raptor output, which seems to be the highest there is with shooting, perhaps and armor of gork for that 6+ ward would not be too bad, and put the numbers in my favor to weather that turn 1 alpha shooting on both MK's... worth thinking about at least. I also did not find Smelly un to be all that useful, I think I will go with fast un next time possibly, which would also allow the non amulet MK to be in an even more safe position turn 1. Ironsunz was a lot of fun to use, it really did some clutch things for me, such as getting to the sentinels in game 2 and getting morathi down faster in game 3. The threat of it also forced my opponents into some moves and positions they were not really comfortable with, so the mind games alone it forces is quite nice, even if you possibly never use it in a game, because the opponent needs to position poorly so you can not do it. Having 4 hammer units was fun as well, and the 10 brutes in game 2 against the sentinels allowed me to burn his objective he stood on, before I finished them off next turn, was quite hilarious.

Rejoice Cities players, now you too can get grand strategies, battle tactics and battalions you will never ever use!

Everything about that book and the Darkoath/Cultist/Warcry stuff is odd and a poorly internally and externally balanced mess. Even after a WD tome update it is disjointed and senseless and now they add cultists that are not cultists to add to the confusion and messyness.

Notice how GW was so close, but the the Darkoath Savages unlike the spider guys are NOT cultists, so they can not be battleline and can not benefit from any marks of chaos, continuing the legacy of the sad sad design of the StD faction and book, with everything just being a mess. Talk about salt when they just released a WD update making cultists battleline and marks, then release a super cool looking warband (which by all rights should be the updated marauder kits) and then they do not have the cultist keyword... GW for heck sake!

Yes I agree such a change is exactly what should be considered. I do not think it is healthy for the game to massively change core warscroll effectiveness and points outside of new books, as people need to be able to purchase armies with at least some certainty it is going to work decently throughout the current books lifespan. In the sentinel example (yes yes they are just so obvious to use for this) it would go a long way to make them better in the game without breaking the unit, to only make the lofted shots able to be fired when stationary. Basically they got it right with how such a unit is supposed to work, so taking some from that and adjusting a warscroll would be all good, without breaking the core role and purpose of the unit and without requiring points adjustments, so wont break a list someone might love to run. If only GW would take the plunge to become primarily digital much of this would be so much easier, yet we know how reliable the app is, so until they prove the digital product can be stable, I think many will resist this change if it was suggested.

At least with the new 3.0 books there is less allegiance ability bloat, which makes point adjustments somewhat easier, as most of the value is in the warscroll itself. This also creates the danger of making the faction more bland as a whole though. This is also why allies and soup can become a problem, like cities of sigmar. Stormcast got some new warscrolls, yet they still have almost no allegiance rules to speak of. Just wait for Stormdrake guard in living city, where they can appear from the board edge, shoot with breath attacks and then move+charge for 1 CP. Sentinels is a prime example of all kinds of layers that makes them the terror to the game they are, if you grab a unit and ally them into a different army, they are rather OK, as the extreme range is offset by baseline weak staying power and moderate damage. The problem arises when they get spells to reroll hits, with multiple ways to deliver that spell and bonuses to increase cast probability. This increases damage exponentially, then add on top other allegiance abilities and spells which turns the low durability intent on its head, as they suddenly have baseline -1 to be hit, 5+ ward saves from multiple possible sources, teleports and quartz to increase saves, in addition to entirely ignore battleshock on a 2+ with some support. What should be changed there? just make them more expensive? If the LRL player had to remove 10 wardens to afford a 30 block, would that really make all the difference and "fix" the experience? I do not think so. It might make it harder to win than otherwise for the LRL player in that case, but it does not make the sentinels any less of a problem to deal with and any more fun to face for the opponent. Arguably it just feels bad for the LRL player while the opponent will still hate to face the sentinels as much as before. I think any changes in a vacuum are dangerous in this case, as it is a layered problem. The streamlining of the current 2 3.0 books could indicate a move away from all these layers of rules to create "monsters", which makes point adjustments easier. Warscroll changes would also be easier, especially for units being used across books, just see the nightmare created with Archaon, which was especially apparent by the end of 2.0. We should also be aware of knee ****** reactions. Rumors of Stormdrake guard getting both point increases AND warscroll changes seem strange, as it would also indicate a total design failure in that case. If the warscroll was ok, but points too low, then increase points. If the points was the intended design to fit into certain lists, then change the warscroll. If they go and change both aspects, then that would indicate they had no idea what they were doing and playtesting was not properly done or adhered to at all.

Looking into this take on Hammers for an upcoming event in a few weeks, deciding what exactly I need to paint up. One of my main concerns is how to run battalions. Mostly coming down to taking the 1 drop, to either ensure an alpha or to take second, for a stronger position when dropping down Annihilators and counter punch, as a double turn would be crazy devastating with this list I think. Donwside to 1 drop is no hunters of the hearthlands, and that could hurt the dracoths and especially the annihilators a lot, they really want to have AoA to get their hammers worth. In addition with the 2 free commands between the imperatant and Bastian, I really want to be using commands all the time. Thoughts? Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals- Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line- Triumphs: BloodthirstyLord-Commander Bastian Carthalos (300)Lord-Imperatant (175)- General- Command Trait: Master of Magic- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)- Spell: Thundershock5 x Liberators (115)- Heavens-wrought Weapon and Shield2 x Dracothian Guard Fulminators (230)2 x Dracothian Guard Tempestors (220)6 x Annihilators with Meteoric Grandhammers (480)- Reinforced x 16 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (480)- Reinforced x 1Holy Command: Thunderbolt VolleyTotal: 2000 / 2000Reinforced Units: 2 / 4Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 79Drops: 7

LRL plays a lot like KB but are just better at it, in that regard KB seems like the balanced version of LRL. Main forces are spearmen and archers doing mortal wounds, same in that regard, but LRL got so many tools to ignore battleshock, become tankier and they are all spell casters too, which they can even get bonuses to. LRL also basically got the KB waaagh all the time by default. Comparing them rules wise there is little reason to play KB over LRL, Boltboyz is the workhorse but still falls short of the 360 noscope sentinels with up to 42" threat range with no LoS needed. Wardens are better anvils than rippaz, with more consistent damage output, better saves and defensive tools. LRL also got access to hyper fast cavalry and characters and the most powerful and versatile spells in the game with plenty of + to cast access. KB has none of that. Spell casting ability is poor, with medium range spells and rarely any bonuses to cast or unbind (I know there is the idol or BW zap em etc, but they are expensive and/or circumstantial). Poor saves and bravery hurts the units and they require substantial support to become effective, where LRL units can work much more independently. I think KB is the better designed army for the game though, it has some scary MW threats, but to do that they need to make a lot of sacrifices, they also have plenty of vulnerabilities, such as poor movement, meh magic, incredibly poor bravery and bad saves. LRL has tools to cover every single possible weakness, which is good for WAAC tournament play, but bad for the game as a whole. In regard to mobility: I think the Vulcha is there for that mobility the rest of the army lacks, even though I find it to be a bit weak, it can help with battleshock initially, and then be an important tool to get various battle tactics done. With the army being so slow, and neede the sludgerakers to stick with the main force, having a fast flyer is important to grab a lot of different battle tactics, while also being a monster unlike the Gnashtooth. My main issue with wanting the sludgeraker, vulcha and mirebrutes is the drops...

Thinking this could have been a new marauder kit to std bul will just be another cultist warscroll with 1 attack on 4+/4+ makes me so sad... But darn it they are cool. You could remove the AoS name and replace with with Conan and nobody would have thought twice. I'm already scared of the new nurgle, disease and permanent debuffs and Dot's sounds nasty!

Bloodtoofs does at least allow for the gruntas to charge again if they clear a screen and tie up something, dealing some mortal wounds as well while doing it. It is a hard choice though, if only the Ironsunz ability did not cast CP I like the threat from the Ironsunz though, if played right the opponent will have far less "safe" plays to do, if you got an unengaged mawkrusha nearby, everything becomes far harder to do with the risk of a counter charge on their hammer unit. The meta being full of lumineth and legion of the first prince, also brings a lot of value to "you messin'" for sure.

Got a hard time to decide on a final list for the next events I am going to. Looking at a core of 2 Krushas and 2 chanters. Question is, if it would be best to go Bloodtoofs with 2x6 gruntas and 5 brutes, or go Ironsunz with 6 gruntas, 10 brutes and 2x5 ardboyz. Gruntas are just really good and getting rend 2 on hackas really brought them up in value. Baseline their damage output matches brutes point for point, but adds mortal wound output on charges as well, which adds up on 2+! Over twice the movement, higher model count for objectives and needs to take more damage before being affected by battleshock as much. Brutes get some nice benefits against either 1 wound units or 4+ wound units, but not much else, they are baseline battline though, so fits well into the iron sunz to get the counter charge ability, which even the threat of, can mess with the opponent a lot. The Bloodtoofs variant is more aggressive and has redundancy even if the first grunta unit dies fast. Lots of mobility as well and can quickly get board presence. The other list has cheaper units to keep backline objectives, and the brute unit is still good to cancel out horrors, wardens etc on obectives, or be a major threat to elite units. they will more often need inspiring presence however to not run away.

and if 1 dies, coherency is no longer an issue anyway

Like this:

Both are good, list 2 got a bit more mobility, another option is to change list 1 a bit, replace 5 brutes with 3 gruntas to have a mobile capping unit. Then go da choppas, since you got 2 big brute units and a double reinforced ardboy unit, that would add a lot of efficiency and threat.

I like the unique warbands, there is plenty of room for both, the salt comes due to GW neglecting AoS factions so much for some reason, while throwing cool models left and right for the specialist games. If they spent half the attention to StD they have given to warcry warbands, they could have updated the entire model range and rolled in cash. Imagine if they released updated chosen, a new generic demon prince, new marauders and horsemen in the style of the darkoath we have seen so far, a modern manticore and perhaps some kind of Galrauch chaos dragon. It would be a license to print money. I hope all the old factions get a facelift, seeing all the warbands for chaos, and all the bloodbown and underworlds Seraphon teams just hurt these old factions that much more, as their own kits are so old. People have been screaming for new saurus and Kroxigors, and it seems GW gives it in every other game and medium than actual AoS for some reason.

The Slaves to Darkness model line is already a huge mess as it is. But people only play Archaon so maybe it hardly matters :s New warriors and knights and Karkadrak still only available as monopose units with no command group or weapon options in a start collect kit. Ancient units for most other things. Then all the Warcry stuff is just crammed in there with little sense or cohesion. The Warcry wearbands just feel odd with their mixed unit types, especially when going for reinforced units... It is probably more likely this new guy is Khorne related, he looks very much like a bloodreaver of some sort, while a spider makes me think of Tzeentch.

The idea is just a turn 1 counter punch. Charge in with Gruntas and maybe tanky Crusha, then super frogger in the fast MK with destroyer the next turn, to annihilate whatever scary they threw at you. If you are good at whiffing it sure comes in handy to have, and is one of the only ways to possibly ensure a Mega Gargant dies before it retaliates, possibly saving a big chunk of damage/death. At least there are options which is great, it is so cookie cutter these days, so it is actually nice having to make some hard decisions

Gotrek fights again at the end of the combat phase. The Gruntas do their move/charge at the end of the combat phase, so this would entirely depend on who has the turn. If you made the charge on your turn and clear out a unit, then get to the end of the combat phase and charge Gotrek, it is then the opponent who does "end of combat phase" stuff after you, so Gotrek would be able to attack in this scenario. The grunta ability is great regardless though, with hackas especially the additional charge could deal a bunch of extra mortal wounds as well. It should not be ignored how the pile in or especially the normal move can be great as well. If no enemy unit is present after combat, you can then move the gruntas into as favorable a position as possible, either with a better frontage, or blocking or continue onto an objective the dead unit possibly blocked off, it is great, especially as it costs 0 CP unlike Ironsunz. I love the Ironsunz counter charge, but I never have any CP to spare... I have lost 12 wounds from unleash hell to bowsnakes before, it is not a great thing. Of course a mystic shield would help for any unleash hell (not MW though), so instead of relying on a 1 time per game additional move, the arcane tome + master of magic MK + Amulet MK, is not a bad option at all. Having that rerollable unbind could be a game changer as well. While smelly un does not work after a charge, it for sure brings staying power to take the counter punch, even though it is only for melee. The primary idea with the destroyer + fast un combo is to keep it at the back, while the gruntas and possibly other MK charges forward. Then in a followup turn, a warchanter can buff up the destroyer MK and with triple move it can reach anywhere on the board and wreck that fly high Ironclad, or Bash in most of the god models regardless of where they go, that is a massive psychological pressure to have that sitting there safely, waiting to "launch". Having access to a mystical shield for the tanking MK is a big deal though against anyone that does not auto unbind it, which is unfortunately quite a few Meta armies, like Lumineth, Tzeentch, Seraphon, Nagash etc who just get massive bonuses to cast and unbind and are common in tournaments. Armor of Gork is still pretty interesting I think, if not going for speed anyway, -2 move is not terrible when you can move twice, and +1 hit and 6+ ward is rather good.

Interesting points, although I think with 2 MKs, I'd prefer beefing up a unit rather than getting a 3rd warchanter, simply to have more board presence, logically I could buff up 3 gruntas with double damage, or for 35 pts more simply have twice as many, which seems like an efficient deal when bodies are lacking. Mawkrusha loadouts are an interesting topic, as they are quite flexible. I like the idea of the super tank combo, with 1 with arcane tome for mystic shield, and the other with amulet and smelly un trait, which will often result in the opponent needing to throw a lot of resources into removing it. On the other hand spells are unreliable and Ironjawz depend on doing as much damage in as short a time as possible, with the best defence being offence, as you can then smash and bash to avoid counter attacks. Having a MK with the fast un trait and destroyer enables this best, as it is basically a guided missile with enough damage to be a major threat to anything in the game. This guy is the only one with a chance to outright 1 shot a mega gargant, or any of the god models with some reliability during waaagh. With triple move he can go exactly where needed. Hero phase and hero phase charge after, might also enable some tricks to counter redeploy and unleash hell. So while I'd really love to have a wizard available, I have a hard time giving up the destroyer fast un krusha, as this is similar to having a nuclear missile ready to launch and it completely messes with your opponent.

Seraphon players: please GW update our Saurus warriors! GW: Sure, you meant for blood bowl right? Seraphon players: please, how about chameleon skinks, they are ancient resin! GW: Sure here is a single one, for underworlds. Seraphon players:... How about a new Kroxigor unit then, they are also ancient resin! GW: We got you, to match your Blood Bowl team of Saurus right? Seraphon players:...................

So I tried a game against a Nagash and blood knights list with a list inspired by the plasticcraig article, with perhaps a bit less minmax: Sludgeraker, Breakaboss, 2xshamans, 2x20 rippaz, 9 boltboyz, 10 hobgrots, 1 killbow. I got to say I rolled rather well, but damn the output this can do. Spiking rolls can be horrifying and even though Nagash put a -1 attacks on my center rippaz group, I somehow rolled 5 6s out of 8 attacks on a unit of bloodknights to deal 10 MW's thanks to the Sludgeraker. I guess the look of dispair in your opponents eyes at that point is what Kruleboyz are all about. The Boltboyz did a lot of work and had the room to do it, thanks to the big blocks of Rippaz. The Mirebrute held a flank rather well, for 180 pts he is awesome. While the Sludgeraker called the Waaagh to annihilate just about everything between himself and the 2 bugged units of rippaz, even if one was debuffed and the other had lost 8 from the first attacks and spells from Nagash. Won the game quite confidently, however as I was quickly sort of boxed in, if the counter punch had not been so devastating, the list would be hard pressed to push out, like a pseudo Teclis castle, with cool hobos instead of poncy elves. My main concern was exactly that, mobility and also bravery, with 2 units fighting, usually 1 needed inpsiring presence to not take a lot of expensive losses. Due to this, I think a Boss on bird could be good, although I am not sure exactly how to fit him. I do not really want to ditch my breaka boss, but if I take him and a bird, I will sit at a 3 drop instead... a bird boss would however sort of solve some mobility and bravery issues. Sacrificing the single killbow for a boss on foot might be worth it, but not sure...

Tried the list vs a Nagash and Vhordrai list with zombie spam, which is not really the ideal situation with endless zombie screens. Nagash and Vhordrai deployed as 2 drop in a castle screened by the 3 units of zombies (40,20.20). Played tectonic interferrence and he gave me first turn, so decided to just let it rip and see if I could box them in, so did violent fury on the 2 units of gruntas and launched them into the zombies, while keeping the 2 bosses 22" away from Nagash, to be outside portal+hand of dust range. Blew up the zombies, and BloodToof moved one unit back to an objective while launching the other into the last unit of zombies to pin them. Some zombies came back again though and in his turn he managed to kill the first unit of gruntas with 16 mortal wounds from arcane bolts and some combat and shooting. Vhordrai charged the other grunta units and killed 2 there as well. That hurt quite a bit, but was expected. The big screens were gone, so it was time to play frogger with the destroyer Mawkrusha and do a Waaagh. Brutes took alpha objective by charging the zombies, they could not cap due to "you messin" even though there were around 15 left vs 4 brutes at the end of the combat phase. I had positioned myself in a way originally so my opponent thought I would try to remove Vhordrai who was a bit over extended and he had use finest hour on him and mystic shield. That was a grave mistake as the destroyer mawkrusha jumped across the entire board and caught Nagash and smashed him. With only a wounded Vhordrai and some scattered zombies we called it there. Nagash lists are super polarizing, and I honestly think they coutner us well, with Zombie tarpits and Nagash just nuking down stuff with no magic defense from the Ironjawz. Hand of dust is an absolute horror too and I have lost Mawkrushas to that multiple times, as all it takes is 1 whiffed combat phase... The Ironjawz rend and the Gore Hackas with rend 2 on the Gruntas is for sure amazing at punching down these super monsters running around. There are few lists that can just safely tank 4 super hammer units potentially coming at once, with rend 3 on multiple weapon profiles for 1 turn. I ran 2x6 in my list, but I do think a 6 and 3 setup could work, with maybe a unit of brutes more or a 10 man brute unit instead to hold the center for example, you will still have 3 fast and scary hammers, 1 hammer/anvil and a 3 man grunta unit to charge smaller things or to cap objectives outside of the primary fighting and a lesser investment. Ironjawz can be rather comfortably played with almost any combination of things, they are all good in their own right, although you do want a bunch of the rend 2 stuff, be it on brutes or gruntas. I initially swore to Ironsunz, but considering just how CP hungry everything is, I have changed my mind a little. It is incredibly useful to be able to have the threat of a counter charge, but I often burn through CP on AoA, Mighty Destroyer and because of poor bravery inspiring presence can be a must too, so the CP just flies out the window on other essential stuff.

The Radukar the Wolf lore talks about how he raided the coast on his Flagship Carrack with Ogor mercenaries/pirates... I wonder if that was a sign of things to come?

This is important to consider. The only books currently sitting on top due to overall incredibly powerful rules across the board are Lumineth and Tzeentch. Everything in the lumineth book is just at worst B+ tier to S tier stuff and it even has a couple of very different 5-0 "S tier" builds. Tzeentch also has different builds, although a bit less variation perhaps, but still very powerful core allegiance abilities that elevates everything else. Most other books are not the same though. DoK is a top list because of Morathi, StD is up there only because of Archaon (and possibly Belakor, Legion of the first prince is basically the same 1 gimmick list everyone uses, generously calling it "the players choice list", which is a nice way of saying WAAC I do not think Sons really fit into any of this, they are just so different in the way they play. Stormcast lands in an odd spot, as they basically have no strong core, with almost no allegiance abilities at all, meaning everything relies on warscrolls and their pts cost. In a book over 70+ warscrolls this is basically a compendium and some warscrolls just end up as bad, as there is nothing attached to them to elevate them, or that gives them any purpose within some wider mechanics. Like the demon books they usually have odd units that are not great warscrolls, yet they still fit into the book mechanics, such as blood reavers that fuels your primary resource in a cheap way, which makes them good despite a poor warscroll. There is no sucjh saving grace for the poor stormcast scrolls. So while I am perfectly happy with the new warscrolls as my army was already dracoths, stardrake, judicators and raptors, what about the guy who used the old vanguard battalion list? Sacrosanct list are also just poor and I very much doubt we will see those on many top tables. So it all depends on the success criteria I guess, can the new Stormcast book produce competitive lists? Sure! Does it have some powerful warscrolls? Yes about a dozen perhaps (which is far more than some others get and even more than some entire factions!). I think there is a missed opportunity here of making the chambers and stormhosts more unique. Soulblight being a prime example of this, where you see many great and varied lists, from the different dynasties that significantly spices up how the army is played, also with the same warscrolls behaving different between them and specific builds. I think the stormcast are missing this, as nothing will change much between builds, besides the warscrolls themselves and that I feel is a bit of a shame. But what do I care, I can just charge things with my fulminators and pew pew raptors, until uncle GW brings out the pts nerf belt

Think so, flaming weapon or mystic shield brings a lot of utility if you are able to cast them. Against teclis, kroak or Nagash it will do nothing though... If not taking destroyer I think I would look at armor of gork (assuming amulet on the other krusha in a 2 krusha list). With mighty destroyers and fast un, the -2 movement is manageable and 6+ ward and +1 hit is nice and allows for AoD instead of AoA if needed. Destroyer could also end up being overkill against a bunch of lists, but it is a handy tool when you really need to get that big thing down and preferably get smashing and bashing going.