Fred1245

These are points changes. The whole point of legends was to never update any of those again.

Between core rules and barely getting touched, Lumineth seem almost unstoppable.

The thing is though, only the people defending the game have been vicious or enraged or using something as childish as name calling. Everyone is suggesting things like 'Slaanesh is bad and they got really high increases so they're probably still bad and that makes me sad' or 'if when we get all the information it still looks bad, we should hold off on purchasing things' or 'historical precedent shows that AoS is usually really bad at the launch of the new edition and will need some FAQ time to find it's feet. It's worrying that the issues are more subtle than last time.' You're the one running around calling people 'knobheads'. Maybe you should get your own house in order first?

Don't take heart. If your opponent has a priest you'll only actually get value out of it 33% of the time. Or 41.65% with the Avatar. If you drop both (especially considering how bad the Avatar is now that it's super rare to have a free prayer to activate him) then you'll have enough to reinforce a unit of Stalkers.

That's more a problem with your opponents than the army. DoK got hit almost as hard by their new book as Slaanesh did outside of Morathi and Blood Stalkers. If people are still struggling against the Blood Stalker, Blood Sister, Morathi, Screens combo everyone's been running since the Witch Brew nerf, that's on them.

So your argument is that we should be greatful because at least it wasn't worse. Galaxy brain take, that.

There are a lot of people who are defending the state of the edition currently that seem to have forgotten that AoS 2 was completely broken until the first major FAQ came out. GW thought unlimited Command Abilities and Kroak were fine. The very first tournament of the edition immediately saw 64 damage per attack grots and Kroak average 100 mortal wounds PER TURN. Because the problems in this release are mostly systemic rather than 'well duh, of course you can't just let people use shoot again in the hero phase 12 times in the first turn' it's going to take a lot longer to fix it.

Both the Slaanesh book and the DoK book were ACROSS THE BOARD nerfs to those factions(DoK gets glossed over because Morathi and Blood Stalkers still win games, but it was a garbage book too) and yet they're still acting like it's Fall 2019 and these are the 'premiere' competitive factions. I know there haven't been many events to draw on but hell...

DoK wasn't as bad off as Slaanesh, but you can still see the same lack of thought in their increases. Named Hag queen going up by more than DOUBLE despite plenty of people not using her at 80pts. Witch Aelves going up by more than Blood Sisters despite seeing 0 competitive play since the new book. Morathi, the best unit in the book, going up less percentage-wise than any of the other heroes despite no one taking anything but her and a Bloodwrack to make Blood Sisters battleline. Cauldron and Avatar changes ignoring how badly the priest changes hurt them in the early turns. What a bad start to a new edition.

The DoK changes shown pretty much confirm that this edition isn't really for me. Some of them are utterly asinine. Morgwraeth more than DOUBLE? People don't always take her at 80, Avatars of Khaine still going UP when the new priest rules make them almost impossible to activate? Cauldrons going up in line with everything else when they are ALSO almost impossible to activate now? But those aren't the ones that irk me. It's the ones where they clearly think they had it nailed BEFORE and they're just keeping it in line are that really get my blood going. Witch Aelves going up by 20 when Blood Sisters only went up by 10? Why? No competitive DoK list has taken Aelves since the book savaged witch brew and morale is even harsher now. It's not Coherency, neither Blood Sisters or Aelves care about that. Did they not sell enough Shadow and Pain boxsets? What's the deal?

Their intended mechanics is a prayer unless you're Hagg Narr. You'll likely only have 1 prayer to use and it's doubtful you'll spend it on an Avatar or a Cauldron(and if you do, you're already in trouble). The summation was that it didn't impact the decision to take Morathi and DID impact the decision to take Morgwraeth. No cascading effect was mentioned for the rest of the army, the implication is painfully obvious. Unique models getting spells or prayers is irrelevant outside of Morgwraeth. That last bit is pretty generous. Slaughter queen on foot has never been good, Slaughter Cauldron's CA was always situational(Daughters tend to die before the start of your hero phase) and is now competing for a LOT of other abilities for CP, Hag Queens are of Dubious value outside of Hagg Narr(and Morgwraeth) thanks to the hammer Witchbrew took, and Hagg Cauldrons are +Save aura bots for the most part. It's a fair point that everyone else's priest suck as bad as ours at praying now, but we also relied on our priests more than other armies.

It's irrelevant. The only difference it makes to ANYTHING about the army is whether or not you take Morgwraeth. It has 0 impact otherwise. I even mention that in the post, you, of course, realize?

DoK: Reinforcement Nerfs leave Witch Aelves and SoS in an even worse spot. Not that anyone was taking them anymore. Monster and hero rules help Morathi be better so, even losing access to Mindrazor, she'll be in 110% of Daughters of Khaine lists. Priest rules are a massive across the board nerf to all priests. I would expect Cauldrons to be the only Priest Keyword we see(too bad they can't fight until turn 3) Especially with Morgwraeth not having Prayers anymore(the generic prayers are GARBAGE). The invocation is dead and so are Avatars, because again, after the nerfs they can't fight until turn 3. Blood Stalkers suffer quite a bit from both reinforcement and the terrain buffs so will likely not be as common. Just in time to expose how bad Daughters of Khaine are in melee in the new book. Blood Sisters will still see 100% preference over aelves while being 100% mediocre. Positive side: 1 drop deployment is trivial. Nothing else will be impacted in any meaningful way. Net result: Morathi will have to carry the army on her own until 4th edition.

40k doesn't have the limit on saves.

It is clear. It also one of the dumbest rules added to Sigmar. Including the mustache thing.

Realm rules again? God I hate those. 'Roll a dice, on a 6 you lose! Can't you feel how NARRATIVE it is!'

How many times does it needs to come up that ethereal ignores modifiers?

I can't imagine they'll do 18" for the competitive battleplans. You mights as well deploy both armies directly into combat.

Make a named character your general, no CT.

No CT or Artefact or book spell or book prayer. Or mount bonuses.

Unless they are and GW's answer is 'go feth yourself, you get nothing'.

Unless you're a named character, then you get nothing.

Firstly, why would you bring an ironscale over a bloodwrack in a shooting army? Second of all, DoK have been a shooting army since they torched most of our melee options. Most lists have 1 or 2 units of blood sister because witch aelves and Sisters of Slaughter are trash now, and that's it. We also ALREADY go without artefacts so who cares? The rest of that is mostly wishful thinking. You're not going to be baiting out CP or doing cool tactics, you're going to be dying. If you manage to die slow enough that you're not fully neutered by the end of the double turn, congrats, you probably win! If you don't die slow enough, you lose. Nothing you do with CP matters because the other player can just counter it with CP(they have more than you turn 1 remember?) DoK especially don't use prayers offensively anymore and with Morathi apparently losing her book spell, don't need those either. The question will be dice. Do they throw enough dice at you to heavily damage your counter attack? If yes, you lose, if no you win. Nothing else in the game matters but how many wounds you fail to save in the first two turns.

Because you said they would? What did you think deliberately not following unit coherency was called? Heads up, it's cheating deliberately not remove your models when they lose all their wounds too.

Some people said they same stuff in the run up to 9th and it wasn't really true then either. Fact is, the people who run events and most of the people who play at events are absolutely not going to be willing to move off of 2000pts so you can fit an extra Gargant or whatever. We'll take the blissful first few months of more people finishing their games on time before point drops inevitably creep everything back up.