mmimzie
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Posts posted by mmimzie
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6 hours ago, Tizianolol said:
Thx a lot guys! Another question about seekers, if I got like a unit of 3 of them, can I return on 2+ a model in the same unit? It says friendly models wholly within them, it seems i can right?
Friendly unit just your units.
If they couldn't target themselves the rule would say "other friendly units" or say " a non seeker unit"
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18 hours ago, Jaskier said:
She's not physically a Wyldwood/overgrown terrain feature, she just lets units that have abilities that trigger near them use her to trigger instead. The key is the wording;
"...you can pick 1 friendly Sylvaneth unit that is wholly within 9" of an overgrown terrain feature or friendly Awakened Wyldwood..." She counts for this because units near her are treated as being wholly within range of a Wyldwood/overgrown terrain.
"...If successfully cast, pick 1 friendly Awakened Wyldwood within range of the caster." She doesn't count for this because she is not physically a Wyldwood model, she just lets friendly units near her count as being wholly within 6" of one.
As for the Vengeful Skullroot's bonus mortal wounds, she doesn't count for them because they trigger off of enemy units being near a Wyldwood, and her Verdian Crown only affects friendly units.
Yeah this is one real issue with the book. It's overly techy and a lot of things really require you to look into the wording.
Would be nice if they QoLd the whole thing.
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2 hours ago, Arzalyn said:
but I'm not sold on the lancers yet.
I hear you on the lancers.
I'd say both rider units are support.
Seekers we all know are support as healer.
Lancers act as strike and fade support. They charge in along side your kurnoth or your seekers. They can do thier damage at the top of combat, and then you fade them and your kurnoth, durthu, and/or seekers can step in and do thier damage. The real benefit is these go in with out take damage and can get back out, easier with kurnoth.
Also the lancers give you a mobile objective unit that won't give up VP like tree revs do.-
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1 hour ago, Boggler said:
Cons
The con of being galletian is HUGE. Not only is it vulnerable to bounty hunter but you now open up these units to being targets for giving up VP from battle tactics in the hand book.
Taking advantage of galletian is going to be trickey and require investment and specific units.
You want durable units that you can make huge and difficult to kill. While you will also very likely will want to make them double thier objective controling power. So, they can be sure to get you any points back for them dying. -
9 hours ago, Iksdee said:
True but i cant include them in a list on the app.
Send an email to GW they are suprizingly responsive to such input.
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17 minutes ago, Jaskier said:
That's exactly why I'm likely going to run at least one unit of each in all my competitive lists, because they output 6-7 attacks per model on multiple profiles so inherently get a lot more value out of +1 Damage/Attack/etc buffs than anything else. It's Gore Gruntas all over again!
For the sake of curiosity as it was brought up, here's some quick and rough numbers (rounded up) for Scythe Kurnoths VS Durthu, assuming these buffs; Kurnoths get +1 to-hit (Heartwood) +1 to-wound (Arch-Revenant) +1 attack (Arch-Revenant) and exploding 6s (Everdusk; extremely easy to setup for Kurnoths because of their Envoys rule)/Durthu gets +1 to-hit (Heartwood) +1 to-wound (Finest Hour) +5 attacks on the Sword (Arch-Revenant, being near a wood and assuming you get lucky and roll high for the Greenwood Gladius) +1 attack on the Talon (Arch-Revenant) and exploding 6s (unfortunately much more difficult to setup for him, becoming impossible if charging off a teleport, so keep that in mind.) We'll also assume Treesong is in play for the heck of it (because thanks to the Vesperal Gem, that's easy!) Now;
I'll list the save bracket then the expected average unsaved damage against that save bracket in (x) again these are assuming a lot of buffs and are very quick/rough numbers so please don't get mad if they're a bit off!
The Kurnoths; 25 attacks hitting and wounding on 2s, 25 hits, 21 wounds at -4 Rend/2 Damage - 2+ stacked to ignore 2 points of Rend (22) 2+ stacked to ignore 1 point of Rend (28) 2+ (34/36) 3+ or worse (42)
The Durthu; (sword) 8 attacks hitting and wounding on 2s, 8 hits, 7 wounds at -3 Rend/6 Damage - 2+ stacked to ignore 2 points of Rend (12) 2+ stacked to ignore 1 point of Rend (18-24) 2+ (30) 3+ (36) 4+ or worse (42) / (talon) 3 attacks hitting and wounding on 2s, 3 hits, 3 wounds at -3 Rend/3 Damage - 2+ stacked ro ignore 2 points of Rend (3) 2+ stacked to ignore 1 point of Rend (3/6) 2+ (6) 3+ (6/9) 4+ or worse (9)
The numbers are a bit deceiving because one of Durthu's buffs is a once-per-game ability, and for Durthu to really stack up to the Kurnoths he needs to roll high for his +D3 attacks from the Gladius. However, when you consider he's 130 points cheaper than the Kurnoths, he does really darned well, though Rend 2 means against the super tough targets you'll probably be relying on the Kurnoths. It definitely shows the value of Treesong to help enable these units in case you come up against things like stacked Archaon and so on. I think the nice thing here is that the Kurnoths are super strong and easy to buff to that level, and you can still have Durthu tagging along with them with a few buffs of his own (just +1 from Heartwood and D3+1 extra attacks from the Gladius and wood) and he will still put in a lot of work. Lord help anything the two charge together, especially as Hunters no longer exists so there's no way to stop Durthu's strike-last stomp!
Durthu in my mind is great for a few different reasons.
1 they can fit in alot smaller spaces able to snipe things alot easier.Durthu gets spirit paths so you can teleport with out using anything else.
Durthu doesn't necessarily need any support out side the artifact, and if you want to make them a tanking unit you can spring for the etheral durthu so they can become a good tank for the army.
I think if tree song really excites you i'd just bring an aspect of the sea. Lets you turn a lot more stuff on, very durable unit great user of external endless spells. Can just shred the save off folks.
This isn't to say kurnoth are not beast, but durthu can do things and has a place should you want to make a list featuring the tree spirit. -
6 minutes ago, Frowny said:
While i think the bounty hunters is interesting, i think building too much around it is a mistake- Manythings you want to kill won't be battle line etc. Dragons, Fulminators, Kragnos, megagargants, long strikes, bastilidons, stegadons. Basically none of the strongest targets does it help you against.
And against many targets, you'd murder them anyway. 6 kurnoths charging a 10 model battle line screen will overkill it even without the +1 dmg.
And mist importantly, the existence of that battalion will push people away from running things that it is good against. Nurgle will run pusgoyle blightlords instead of blight kings for example.
I think bounty hunters may be a nice battalion to include but I don't think it will be as game breaking as ppl think. Everyone is building lists as if they will always be getting the +damage instead of it being very situational.
I'd say i wouldn't over sell what i said. Simple that seekers are a great target for bounty hunters and we don't yet know what we'll want for the meta. Do remember many list ran hunters. That side and while you said is true, there is another side to the coin. Many of these battle line get a similar buff of getting to attack in two ranks when they normally couldn't. Those units will beable to not only come out on top damage wise, but hold objectives like crazy.
While units like clanrats just god a huge points cut a small durability buff. Those things even if you take bounty hunters will be hard to move off the table and can put out a lot of damage. While now also basically auto controlling every objective, and force control 1 objective every turn that you can't contest. While they can also put some really meaningful damage. I dont think bounty hunter will be required for every game, but against a list where bounty hunter is good you might struggle even if you do have it.
The meta will decide what works or what doesn't. But i know many times i've looked at a unit and been really excited about how they math, but then see 1" range on a 32mm base. Look most if not all of night haunt. The power that was reapers is going to shift into harbingers(?) and blage giest which were already decent with bladegiest actualy be viable/good/great in my eyes. Now they will beable to charge stuff and wipe it directly off the table in one go. -
5 hours ago, readercolin said:
List 3:
If i took any kurnoths or durthu i'd bring a sprite swarm hive. It ramps those two units to 11.
@Frowny @Jaskier also the lancers gain the most damage from bounty hunters have an extra attack and doubling thier damage. While the lansers are also better at striking and fading away as they have the movement to be alittle more flexible with where they fade too. They are both good for thier own reason and ask Jask says i like them together so you can slider a lancer squad out and then pile in with seekers to get more damage per surface area.
Damage wise scythe kurnoths and durthu put a lot more out while both are very slow and needed more support to get to thier true damage caps and make into desired combats. Durthu and kurnoths both out put about twice what either squad does at base and i haven't first doing my personaly math but the buffs we have i'd say would favor kurnoth getting the better end with +1 attack, while durthu gets a lot from the green sword.
The real buff on lancers and seekers is going to be bounty hunters. with a high number of attacks doubling the damage is bigger on them than the kurnoths who don't get quite as much. Then stacks stronger with the +1 attack buff you can give them as they get more attacks out of the +1 attack buff.
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21 hours ago, Jaskier said:
Funny timing, I'd just edited my post having seen they were on 60mms just as you replied 😅 Yeah it probably nips reinforcing the unit in the bud, they already don't have great damage output as it is and having to sacrifice attacks to keep their coherency and not stray outside of our various wholly within ranges is probably too big of an ask.
21 hours ago, Arzalyn said:Sadly they are in 60mm bases. I'm not sure if it's worth it to even go above MSU with them if you want to strike and fade way.
22 hours ago, Jaskier said:This actually might have a lot of merit, depending on the base size. 2" is slightly more than 50mm so if their bases are 50mm or less they can happily fight in two ranks, if not I can see it being hard to keep them wholly in range of woods (potentially even with the 12") for the fade-away unless you're willing to lose out on attacks. EDIT: Just checked, they are on 60mms...I think even with the old tri-pointing system that lets 32mms fight in two ranks it might not be enough to solve that issue for these guys. A 6" pile-in certainly helps but I'm still just worried about trying to get all of the models' attacks whilst staying wholly within wood range to fade away.
It's a tough as nails unit even before accounting for it being virtually immune to shooting (woods) and very hard to catch and pin down (fade away.) The damage isn't great though, but I guess that's the trade-off for being so mobile and hard to shift.
For those wondering like I was, 9 Lancers (630) do slightly more melee damage against 4+ save baseline than 4 Stormdrakes (680) though obviously the Stormdrakes have overall higher output thanks to their shooting.
Don't be too sad. I think they were already designed with a lot of this in mind. I think you'll have to commit more with them, but you can actually get all of them to reliably fight the same target. As MSU if you have 3 units of dragon flies 2 of which are lancers and your charge all 3 in.
You can pick both your lancers to fight first and then strike and fadeaway one of the two units. Then your 3rd dragon fly unit can then pile in using thier 6" pile. This will let you pretty reliably get first attack with 3 of your dragon fly units on the same target.
This will leave you in combat, but the target you fought should have had a few teeth kicked in.
I think they work well enough in the meta in bounty hunters getting the damage buff, but not being vulnerable to bounty hunters. Supported by tree revs to claim objectives you could have a very powerful army. Though lack a bit of punch for some precision objective play.-
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Not sure where I sit on skaven. The new GHB coming out at the same time really messes up what they have. If they were dropping into the meta now i'd say they are great, but with the new bounty hunters the most powerful units in the book become super glass cannons.
An example is clan rats. Who can get nasty. Skavenbrew, claw lord, double death frenzy, +1 hit/wound, 5" range attack on 60 models can put out 180 attacks, swinging again on death 2 damage each in bounty hunters against the right targets. Even with out bounty hunters you could kill just about anything with that. That said on the swing back they turn to dust because bounty hunters swings both ways. You could drop these to 40s with just swords and they'd still be quite deadl;y reguardly getting ~120 attacks in.
The above dynamic would be fine if they were fast, but they are about normal movement so you won't really pick all of your fights, and you might not often get to charge first.
This is the case through out the book as it doesn't really play well with the new GHB. potentially you could go for holding objectives with your special units. -
3 hours ago, Rors said:
You get the Harrow ability once each battle round for each Harrow because the warscroll says 'this unit'. So you use one command point with the general, potential not even there depending on what your general is, then they copy it without any more command points being spent.
Could be a bunch of defense in their turn it you could reroll a ton of charges or get heaps of all out attack in yours for either one or zero command points.
Honest Warhammer also noted if the boatboo is general he can teleport and take a unit with him, then Harrows could do the same. Deepstrike your whole army again every turn for one command point.
2 harrows and bought knight varients would allow you to have a lot of free CP stuff. Redepoying 3 units would be pretty nuts.... and time consuming
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10 minutes ago, Evil Bob said:
I would advice against tossing all the screwdrivers out of your tool box just because the work plan only has nails.
Although I am curious behind the idea of the 320 point Hexwraith suicide screens. Is it supposed to stymie opponent VP gain while speeding yours up? Is the T2 charging supposed to be more devastating by a disrupted enemy formation? Is there a secret trick you need to share with the class?
The weird movement option on Hexwraiths has gotten me thinking. Normally in battles my first thought is most efficient use of damage so skipping combats is only done when it is a calculated move. With these guys zipping across the board I’ve been considering a bunch of scenarios where during deployment (or during flanking) they are a feint that draws the enemy out of position. My idea of a suicide screen would be to zip them between a suddenly vulnerable character and a hostile unit (that is if the regular 12” movement and an intercept charge isn’t possible).
As a DoT player. Forcing your opponent behind a screen is very powerful, and can win a game in and of itself. It makes you play alittle more like gargants as you get to take early control of the board.
This said it's quite spoiled by enemy factions that rely on flying units or none conventional movement such as IDK, dragoncast, KO.
With many scenarios having narrow victory margins this is enough to win many games, but other games it won't matter.
This said i think the wraith also are amazing units for procing waves of terror as they also being d3 mortal wounds to the table.
3 minutes ago, Rors said:The other thing to keep in mind is harridans buff comes into effect if a model was removed not if a model has a wound on it. In a lot of cases throwing an arcane bolt won't trigger the harridans buff.
It's both, no?
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1 hour ago, Benlisted said:
Unbuffed harridans have our best damage output per point into 6+ and worse.
True if you ignore thier base size and range. Once you fact that in, you'll realize they are just thralls from the old IDK book. Not enough reach to make taking a bigger unit worth, and a 10 man unit doesn't do enough damage to be too strong.
I think the only thing going for them is they can fight okay on thier own and will make okay units for going of thier own to take objectives.
One key feature in this game is you do need to kill units. You do need the power to look at some where on the table and say "this turn i kill this so i can hold x objective and win the game". Harridans will never do that only do some good chip damage and get punched back in the teeth.
I also don't think you need big huge units if you want to win. It's just about how many models will be fighting. you can have a block of 20 reapers in a 2x10 or 2 blocks of 10 reapers in 2x5 formation either way you'll get a whole lot more attacks with reapers and chain rasp.-
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I mean i don't disagree with thats how they should feel, and how this book sets them up to play. Again it's very deepkin. Very finesse.
You will however, want a way to actualy kill stuff once you have put whatever buffs and debuffs in play, and the book only really offers you 3 ways to get that job done.
I think, seeing as how its been sort of figured out the ways to kill stuff, energy might better be suited shifting the conversation to how other units will help support.
I think the coach makes a great teleporty objective grabber, and also can help with be a unit for charges in a pinch as it's fast and can be where you need. Will really shine by killing off key support heros because it can set up anywhere out side of 9 or it can move with a run to get it's shooting attack off. Because of this i might argue for using the soulreach grasp on the model because it will let you better target down said heros or pick off a unit or two to turn your snipe power on. Could be alittle to expensive for this role.
The knight of shroud of steed seems alittle under valued. The way i see the model is he basically attaches to a unit and lets you activate with him and your other killy unit at the same time. Affectively giving the unit 5 more damage 2 attacks on a small foot print (that's basicly 3-5 models worth of attacks) plus a 2nd charging unit for proc charge abilities. Secret tech for this model is that potentially you can have a unit fight that isn't within 3" of an enemy unit. So long as it'd 3" out it can then pile in and do it's attacks. This isn't so good for multi-rank fighter units, but can let you sneak in more safe attackers.
Dreadblade another fast one and another model great for taking the lightshard. This time however, it's because they can teleport anywhere with out using a CP. So they can always be where you want them, on top of thier speed. Also they can be mvps for late game objectives. This also make a good defensive option as it lets you get off a 2nd discorporate or if working with a knight a shroud could echo his all out attack command, redeploy, or unleash hell.
Spirit host. If you go the lightshard route a 3+ sort of ward will be amazing for keep some of these heros alive. If you have a little hero ball, the spirit host can soak for the whole squad.
Lastly, my favorite i think are the hexwraiths. The super move and the mortal wounds on the charge on a relatively cheap platform is great. These will be your MSU filler units and they will be key for victory. Similar to the black coach they can multicharge support heros to kill them out right. -
New book looks really cool, but it lacks punch really baddly.
The best damage as has been sort of mentioned here is Dreadscythe Harridans, but i wouldn't take them for the most part. Being on 32s with a 1" range is a a completive death sentence with out some sort of crazy attack profile, and these struggle to match up damage (output wise) with other similar units from other armies.
I do believer reapers or chainrasp will be the go to options for your hammer units. In units of 20. One of the key things that has been similar with AoS is you want to really smash whatever you are fighting, and to do that you need want to gets unit killing levels of damage when you fight, so that enemy can't do thier thier back at you.
The reason i say these two units are key is not only due to thier ability to attack in 2 ranks, but also because they buff very nicely off the lightshard.
I think in a way this army will play A LOT like deepkin players say there army plays (this isn't really the case for reason i won't get into). The idea is you want to soften the enemy army and position for that perfect turn of attacks. This means getting charges, and getting all the charge buffs off, and then when that moment happens you pop the light shards.
For this battle plan i think most armies will aim to take either 2 units of 20 chainrasp or 2 units of 20 reapers. In the case of rasp you might likely take 3 of said units. From there I think you will aim to fill with support units and tarpit units.
From here you will pick your favorite to hit and to wound buffs and support units that will help you manuever for your big turn.
Maybe i pigeon hole the army too much, but it just seems to really lack important punch, with out also being super durable to make up for it. So it really feels line another finese deepkin style army, but you are only really going for one good turn.
Units of note. For MSU charging units i vote hexwraiths. The extra d3 mortal wounds will be great, and 3 units charging a hero could be game winning. Also they are a nice long unit that can charge in such a way as to screen your other units that are in melee. They also can turn 1 movement deny your opponent, even easier with that last minute unit switch around deal. I think most nighthaunt games will be won and lost off hexwraith play.-
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I think the changes made the army stronger.
That said I think the army has a much higher skill ceiling.
Turn 3 is a knock out punch. That said we don't do SOOOO much damage with most of our units to win with jsut one turn of combat, like we used to be able when the first book dropped. Instead you are now required to be active turn 1 and 2 to weaken the enemy so your turn 3 can finish the game.
@Derek I don't remember your list exactly, but I recommend reavers over the shark in your list. That and/or aether wings for objective control as mentioned previously. I think you need just a little more of a punch to help you clean up units with your turtles. From there the power of your turtles is the king buffing all 3 in turn 1 or 2 to get attack first, and all them chomping into the same units. Alnernatively, thralls might also be great in your list givning you a back up hammer. So you either get more hammer by having reavers to help finish off whatever the turtles light up, or thralls that can come in later game, and maybe fill the space of a dead turtle on turn 3.
@DocKeule I think your list might struggle to take advantage of Ionrach, take advantage of the king buff in turn 2, and have a powerful turn 3. Your list ask a lot of those 3 morrsarr, and the sharks activating i don't think will have enough of an impact activating early. My recommendations are to go one of a few ways with your list:
For all your list find a way to squeeze in 1 or 2 units of thralls. The thralls give you more garenteed gas in turn 3.
I didn't sit and figure the points for below so forgive me.
If you like sharks, which yours look quite nice by the way.
Fuethan with 1 shiver will work really well for you. 3 sharks is worth a king buffing them in turn 1 or 2 along side the king and the morrsarr. Dropping 1 shark should give you room to fit in 1 squad of thralls in your current list. This way turn two you king buff the morrsarr, sharks, and then the king himself. Then in turn 3 your thralls will have gotten to that one key location or fight, and what ever is left of your sharks/morrsaar/king can come in and hopefully finish up the game. You may consider swaping a squad of reaver for ishlaen, more morrsarr, or thralls to help you zone alittle better.To stay in ironrach:
I recommend droping maybe 2 sharks and convert one reaver squad to thralls. This should give you space to take 2 more morrsarr, you can either have them in one unit or 2 seperate units. This gives you a second squad that can use Ionrach. As i've mentioned before the msu vs big squad is a tacktical choice. If you don't have more morrsarr I'd say 6 ishlaen would be even better, they'd be a great unit to throw out first as they'll be more likely to come back home.
Turn 1: this lets you alpha with ishlaen or morrsarr
Turn 2: Your fresh morrsarr unit, king, and sharks can swing into the same target. If your alpha squad still remains ionrach ability again will let your move them some where that should protect your turn 2 squad
Turn 3: Your thralls can come into play.-
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I'd say the clan rats win because they have double the wounds and can put out the same damage if your investing heavy in both. I'd also say you'd get more of your points worth of clan rats actual piling in and fighting than you would thralls. With half the wounds thralls can be easily ignore with a few mortal wounds.
Thralls are better as a stand alone unit. Which is why i say they are great 1 or maaaybe 2 of in any list. I'd say every deepkin army will have atleast one thrall squad
With a list full of other important threats that matter earlier the thralls can take thier time moving up the table, and be primed to be in a good spot turn 3.
Thralls are cheap enough that they never break the bank. So you can "waste" the poinst for a unit that won't have a meaningful impact until turn 3. They are very similar to morrsarr, except morrsarr can be made more relevant turn 2 due to speed and ionrach.-
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6 hours ago, Lithdaydora said:
He won the roll off for turn 2, but he didnt want the chance of a turn three double so he let me have the turn.
I think this lost him the game here. He he let you go first I feel confident his army would have done to you, what you did to him this game. Reaver and thralls with no tanky support they'd all die about as fast as 50 clan rats.
I think the list is quite neat all else aside. You might consider giving the storm boy the book. Its less useful on the storm boy, but it makes the model more of a threat.8 hours ago, Derek said:So you guys think dom-hain thrall spam is a gimmick? I think there’s some play there. I’m going to be giving it a try probably in may.
It can win games as the list above does. However, you lose tactical control over the game. It's why gotrek never really took over. Even at the peak of his powers. Thralls are a bit better and worse. Better in that they are cheap, and worse because they die to anything about as quickly as clan rats, but they cost about twice as much. I think one or two units of 10 should be in about every list (because the math works that way most of the time). It's a good unit to force your opponent to move around them.
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I think where the army is now an aggressive take is the best take. This has always been the case for deepkin. The turn 3 generally is just for clean up. However, you need be aggressive turn 1 and 2 to have a real game. The new book gives us better turn 1 and turn 2 tools.
I think sharks are a little disapointing out side a full shiver. I think they have middle melee and ranged power. While the range power can overlap accross units, i think you really want the 3 sharks chomping in melee at the same time on turns 1 and 2 to make them worth bringing. I think they have real milage in fuethan, but outside of fuethan i think they'll just be there to fill out pointsl. A great arguement can be made for a king getting them to attack together (first) out side of fuethan, but i think there are better units for this. They really aren't powerful they have the overall damage output of a ranged unit. Speak of...
I do think the reavers are quite good. Compared to the shark (which i think is the slot they compete for) shark melee+ ranged does about the same as reaver ranged alone, not including outside or personal buffs. With buff the sharks can pull a head, but not to a crazy amount. Forgotten nightmares keeps the reavers safe enough, and while they don't get the same fuel of buffs from the previous book, they still hit really hard and many of the buffs are baked into the profile. I also think they are one of three units that combo very well with the aspect of the sea.
Ishlaen i'm surprised more folks don't like. I think in Ionrach with an aspect of the sea these are a perfect alpha strike unit. Charging early to get that +3 save and unrendable does matter. I think these can go in tie up a lot of units and do some good damage. Again another aspect of the sea synergy unit, and the rend profile is more homogeneous with the eel attacks meaning the aspect of the sea buff is more efficent on these than the morsarr varient. Speaking of against Morrsar, with the loss of range and extra attacks on the swords the ishlaen punch quite hard, harder than the sharks/reavers against most targets. I think playing them this way means they get beaten up quite badly after the first turn, but locking down your opponents turn one out the gate is very powerful.
Morrsarr i do think still have a place. I think these are still kings of turn 3 clean up. TThey are super fast and hit very hard on the charge. I think ionrach is amazing for these models. As they can do a standard charge turn 2 against safe targets, and get retreat and charge on turn 3. With thier speed they'll more than likely be where ever you need them to be. The 1" range sucks really bad as you'll struggle to get many in. They might be best as MSU units for good and require the king to get them attacking all at once out of turn 3. So i think all list with want eels in Ionrach you can make a unit of 6 work, out side of a unit or 2 msu eels will be strong heavy hitters.
Thralls: I think these are a meme. They have lots of potential and with the range increase they are in a great place. I think they can get some amazing things, but they are going to struggle getting the surface area they need to do thier thing. They are as slow as humans for no reason, and a turn 2 charge is going to be as much on your opponents terms as your own. I think the faction that buffs them is good and if you want to use that is the place. I do think they can preform well, but playing them is a lot more like playing gargants than deepkin, where you take a lot of the game out of your hands. They are an anvil unit in a way. They dictate what your opponent wants to do. They are a real threat and need to be dealt with. This combined with other units in the army will win games.
A list I think will work well:SpoilerLEADERS
Akhelian King (250)*
General - Command Trait: Unstoppable Fury
Artefact: Arcane Tome
Mount Trait: Voidchill Darkness
Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon Eidolon of Mathlann,Aspect of the Sea (325)*
Lore of the Deeps: Steed of TidesIsharann Tidecaster (150)* - Lore of the Deeps: Counter-current
UNITS
6 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (390)*
6 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (390)*
10 x Namarti Reavers (170)*
10 x Namarti Reavers (170)*
10 x Namarti Thralls (130)*
CORE BATTALIONS
*Battle Regiment
TOTAL: 1975/2000I think this plays to a lot of the strengths above. I think the reavers help clean up a lot of messes and give you good objective holder units. Only thing i don't love are the thralls. They hit good turn 3 and can act as a cheap threat similar to how gotrek has been used, but take more space and hold objectives better.
Morrsarr and reavers fight for who is reinforced and who is MSU. Reavers together don't give you a lot and make them tougher to use, but you have the CP to spare on keeping them around. Single unit morrsarr make great targets for the Ionrach hero action. MSU morrsarr will get more attacks in.
Honestly, i'd likely drop the thralls in favor of allys if i had a good ally unit in mind. This or a 2nd thrall units for more board control and eel protection wouldn't be a bad idea.The king will likely go armor after a few more games.
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5 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:
s I already mentioned +1 to wound does little for Zombies and Direwolves specifically.
I agree, but it doesn't really help blood knights either right?? Where as radukar's +1 attack is a 100% zombie damage increase that is double with dance from a necro as a spell is boosted by vykros. Plus spore tracker lets you simply just win the games.
That said i'll clarify that I don't think you are wrong. In fact, i agree with your argument in a wider sense for soulblight. 1 or 2 units of blood knights are a decent throw into any army. They are fast, durable, and hit decently hard, while not needing any real support to be affective, but as you say can benefit casually from any buffs you have.
That all said i think if you go the idea route of looking at buffs, i'd recommend buffing zombies and graveguard, and having your blood knights benefit from said buffs more passively like radukar and unholy impetus let you do. Graveguard and zombies use the buffs more efferently and will put out way more damage for your buffing investment. Investing too heavily in blood knights i think is going to get you in trouble if you are looking to make a completive list. Again 1 or 2 units can be very power and game winning, but to many will cripple your list.-
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7 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:
opinion, that makes including a unit or two of Blood Knights pretty attractive.
I'd say the beast works quite fine with zombies, and Soma's buffs to dire dogs makes corpse carts more reliable. While spore trackers can make corpse carts quick enough to keep up with dire wolves and attacking zombiie units.
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I think all have thier place.
Vykros is very weird and very specific.
Kasteli relys on big alpha turns and 1 or 2 units max of blood knights with a bigger hitter general with artifact and command traits.
Legion of the night is the army of zombies, skeletons, and graveguard. Basicly doing the Warhammer fantasy battle style of vampires.
The main things are artifacts and abilities.
Vykros basicly gives you worse +2 to cast as rerolls general is alittle worse than +2 to cast. So you'll get a good army wise casting bonus. From here skeletons and grave guard perform well getting an easy access to +1 to wound that doesn't take up that one command ability per unit per phase.
I also think vykros can do we'll with a objective focused list with zombies. Spore tracker is a great free move and can give the zombies a potential 19" threat range with out rolling any dice. Letting you just shuffle lots of zombies onto objective, and catch key units.
Kasteli I think is a trap. I think 3+ uunitsof blood knights will struggle to function well. Havin played Deepkin and having seen the chat here. Getting more than 3 model into combat will be a struggle. That's including trying to stack your buffs. I think 1 or 2 blood knights and a VLoZD with sword and relentless (it think it's called) is going to be the gravy. Hit hard get your buffs and hope to seize momentum. From there zombies and skeletons will be there to actually win the game and score objectives.
That's the thing the zombies and skeletons can come back giving you so much objective control. You'll want serveral units or a few big ones.
Legion of the night is great. Everything can work. Blood knights, skeletons, and zombies can all get great buffs from impetus.
The sneak into the table and cover are very strong against the meta. Letting you protect power pieces and getting that bonus to save against early shooting that I think we will see a lot.
The claw is a better bonus than rerolling your cast, and let's you get higher number protecting you from unbinds. You can go really nuts with Morris engines and corpse carts to set that bonus to the moon. Only claw downside is it being realaticely stationary, but if you bring the boat you can move that buff around the board.
Honestly I think the three live and die off a few key artifact and command traits that are almost just must takes.
I also think skels and zombies will be bread and butter to winning a lot of games. From there pick a monster or two, and then lastly pick your favorite flavor ice cream (kasteli, vykros, or legion of the night)
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21 minutes ago, vlad3theimpaler said:
Battlescribe currently is not categorizing zombies as battleline. I assume that it's because they're technically conditional, but the condition is the army being a Soulblight Gravelords army, which is obviously the army I'm selecting to build a list. Is there a way to get battlescribe to recognize them properly? It just bugs me to have the little error icon showing up when building my list.
battle scribe for AoS is like the worst thing to use i feel. I'd stick with warscroll builder personally.
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4 hours ago, TechnoVampire said:
Im thinking of grabbing a box of grave guard, which I’m aware are older models. I’ll probably only ever use the great blades however, and it doesn’t look like there’s an option for them in the kit. That bothers me aesthetically. Can anyone confirm this?
if you are looking at the GW site there are twp weapon sprues and 2 banner sprues in the box in memory serves. Otherwise there wouldn't even be enough sword and boards.
AoS3 - Soulblight Gravelord Discussion
in Death
Posted
Looking for thoughts on this list
a meme twist on what folks say is the 'best' cav list of soulblight lol
Vengorian lord, General: doomed minions (maybe master of magic), Spirit gale
Wight king on steed, artifact: amulet of screams
Necromancer: Fading vigor
Necromancer: waste away
battle line:
10x black knights
10x black knights
5x black knight
10x dire dogs
mortis engine
mortis engine
mortis engine
Just a fast mortal wounds celebration. Thoughts?