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mmimzie

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  1. Looking for thoughts on this list a meme twist on what folks say is the 'best' cav list of soulblight lol Vengorian lord, General: doomed minions (maybe master of magic), Spirit gale Wight king on steed, artifact: amulet of screams Necromancer: Fading vigor Necromancer: waste away battle line: 10x black knights 10x black knights 5x black knight 10x dire dogs mortis engine mortis engine mortis engine Just a fast mortal wounds celebration. Thoughts?
  2. Friendly unit just your units. If they couldn't target themselves the rule would say "other friendly units" or say " a non seeker unit"
  3. Yeah this is one real issue with the book. It's overly techy and a lot of things really require you to look into the wording. Would be nice if they QoLd the whole thing.
  4. I hear you on the lancers. I'd say both rider units are support. Seekers we all know are support as healer. Lancers act as strike and fade support. They charge in along side your kurnoth or your seekers. They can do thier damage at the top of combat, and then you fade them and your kurnoth, durthu, and/or seekers can step in and do thier damage. The real benefit is these go in with out take damage and can get back out, easier with kurnoth. Also the lancers give you a mobile objective unit that won't give up VP like tree revs do.
  5. The con of being galletian is HUGE. Not only is it vulnerable to bounty hunter but you now open up these units to being targets for giving up VP from battle tactics in the hand book. Taking advantage of galletian is going to be trickey and require investment and specific units. You want durable units that you can make huge and difficult to kill. While you will also very likely will want to make them double thier objective controling power. So, they can be sure to get you any points back for them dying.
  6. Send an email to GW they are suprizingly responsive to such input.
  7. Durthu in my mind is great for a few different reasons. 1 they can fit in alot smaller spaces able to snipe things alot easier. Durthu gets spirit paths so you can teleport with out using anything else. Durthu doesn't necessarily need any support out side the artifact, and if you want to make them a tanking unit you can spring for the etheral durthu so they can become a good tank for the army. I think if tree song really excites you i'd just bring an aspect of the sea. Lets you turn a lot more stuff on, very durable unit great user of external endless spells. Can just shred the save off folks. This isn't to say kurnoth are not beast, but durthu can do things and has a place should you want to make a list featuring the tree spirit.
  8. I'd say i wouldn't over sell what i said. Simple that seekers are a great target for bounty hunters and we don't yet know what we'll want for the meta. Do remember many list ran hunters. That side and while you said is true, there is another side to the coin. Many of these battle line get a similar buff of getting to attack in two ranks when they normally couldn't. Those units will beable to not only come out on top damage wise, but hold objectives like crazy. While units like clanrats just god a huge points cut a small durability buff. Those things even if you take bounty hunters will be hard to move off the table and can put out a lot of damage. While now also basically auto controlling every objective, and force control 1 objective every turn that you can't contest. While they can also put some really meaningful damage. I dont think bounty hunter will be required for every game, but against a list where bounty hunter is good you might struggle even if you do have it. The meta will decide what works or what doesn't. But i know many times i've looked at a unit and been really excited about how they math, but then see 1" range on a 32mm base. Look most if not all of night haunt. The power that was reapers is going to shift into harbingers(?) and blage giest which were already decent with bladegiest actualy be viable/good/great in my eyes. Now they will beable to charge stuff and wipe it directly off the table in one go.
  9. If i took any kurnoths or durthu i'd bring a sprite swarm hive. It ramps those two units to 11. @Frowny @Jaskier also the lancers gain the most damage from bounty hunters have an extra attack and doubling thier damage. While the lansers are also better at striking and fading away as they have the movement to be alittle more flexible with where they fade too. They are both good for thier own reason and ask Jask says i like them together so you can slider a lancer squad out and then pile in with seekers to get more damage per surface area. Damage wise scythe kurnoths and durthu put a lot more out while both are very slow and needed more support to get to thier true damage caps and make into desired combats. Durthu and kurnoths both out put about twice what either squad does at base and i haven't first doing my personaly math but the buffs we have i'd say would favor kurnoth getting the better end with +1 attack, while durthu gets a lot from the green sword. The real buff on lancers and seekers is going to be bounty hunters. with a high number of attacks doubling the damage is bigger on them than the kurnoths who don't get quite as much. Then stacks stronger with the +1 attack buff you can give them as they get more attacks out of the +1 attack buff.
  10. Don't be too sad. I think they were already designed with a lot of this in mind. I think you'll have to commit more with them, but you can actually get all of them to reliably fight the same target. As MSU if you have 3 units of dragon flies 2 of which are lancers and your charge all 3 in. You can pick both your lancers to fight first and then strike and fadeaway one of the two units. Then your 3rd dragon fly unit can then pile in using thier 6" pile. This will let you pretty reliably get first attack with 3 of your dragon fly units on the same target. This will leave you in combat, but the target you fought should have had a few teeth kicked in. I think they work well enough in the meta in bounty hunters getting the damage buff, but not being vulnerable to bounty hunters. Supported by tree revs to claim objectives you could have a very powerful army. Though lack a bit of punch for some precision objective play.
  11. Not sure where I sit on skaven. The new GHB coming out at the same time really messes up what they have. If they were dropping into the meta now i'd say they are great, but with the new bounty hunters the most powerful units in the book become super glass cannons. An example is clan rats. Who can get nasty. Skavenbrew, claw lord, double death frenzy, +1 hit/wound, 5" range attack on 60 models can put out 180 attacks, swinging again on death 2 damage each in bounty hunters against the right targets. Even with out bounty hunters you could kill just about anything with that. That said on the swing back they turn to dust because bounty hunters swings both ways. You could drop these to 40s with just swords and they'd still be quite deadl;y reguardly getting ~120 attacks in. The above dynamic would be fine if they were fast, but they are about normal movement so you won't really pick all of your fights, and you might not often get to charge first. This is the case through out the book as it doesn't really play well with the new GHB. potentially you could go for holding objectives with your special units.
  12. 2 harrows and bought knight varients would allow you to have a lot of free CP stuff. Redepoying 3 units would be pretty nuts.... and time consuming
  13. As a DoT player. Forcing your opponent behind a screen is very powerful, and can win a game in and of itself. It makes you play alittle more like gargants as you get to take early control of the board. This said it's quite spoiled by enemy factions that rely on flying units or none conventional movement such as IDK, dragoncast, KO. With many scenarios having narrow victory margins this is enough to win many games, but other games it won't matter. This said i think the wraith also are amazing units for procing waves of terror as they also being d3 mortal wounds to the table. It's both, no?
  14. True if you ignore thier base size and range. Once you fact that in, you'll realize they are just thralls from the old IDK book. Not enough reach to make taking a bigger unit worth, and a 10 man unit doesn't do enough damage to be too strong. I think the only thing going for them is they can fight okay on thier own and will make okay units for going of thier own to take objectives. One key feature in this game is you do need to kill units. You do need the power to look at some where on the table and say "this turn i kill this so i can hold x objective and win the game". Harridans will never do that only do some good chip damage and get punched back in the teeth. I also don't think you need big huge units if you want to win. It's just about how many models will be fighting. you can have a block of 20 reapers in a 2x10 or 2 blocks of 10 reapers in 2x5 formation either way you'll get a whole lot more attacks with reapers and chain rasp.
  15. I mean i don't disagree with thats how they should feel, and how this book sets them up to play. Again it's very deepkin. Very finesse. You will however, want a way to actualy kill stuff once you have put whatever buffs and debuffs in play, and the book only really offers you 3 ways to get that job done. I think, seeing as how its been sort of figured out the ways to kill stuff, energy might better be suited shifting the conversation to how other units will help support. I think the coach makes a great teleporty objective grabber, and also can help with be a unit for charges in a pinch as it's fast and can be where you need. Will really shine by killing off key support heros because it can set up anywhere out side of 9 or it can move with a run to get it's shooting attack off. Because of this i might argue for using the soulreach grasp on the model because it will let you better target down said heros or pick off a unit or two to turn your snipe power on. Could be alittle to expensive for this role. The knight of shroud of steed seems alittle under valued. The way i see the model is he basically attaches to a unit and lets you activate with him and your other killy unit at the same time. Affectively giving the unit 5 more damage 2 attacks on a small foot print (that's basicly 3-5 models worth of attacks) plus a 2nd charging unit for proc charge abilities. Secret tech for this model is that potentially you can have a unit fight that isn't within 3" of an enemy unit. So long as it'd 3" out it can then pile in and do it's attacks. This isn't so good for multi-rank fighter units, but can let you sneak in more safe attackers. Dreadblade another fast one and another model great for taking the lightshard. This time however, it's because they can teleport anywhere with out using a CP. So they can always be where you want them, on top of thier speed. Also they can be mvps for late game objectives. This also make a good defensive option as it lets you get off a 2nd discorporate or if working with a knight a shroud could echo his all out attack command, redeploy, or unleash hell. Spirit host. If you go the lightshard route a 3+ sort of ward will be amazing for keep some of these heros alive. If you have a little hero ball, the spirit host can soak for the whole squad. Lastly, my favorite i think are the hexwraiths. The super move and the mortal wounds on the charge on a relatively cheap platform is great. These will be your MSU filler units and they will be key for victory. Similar to the black coach they can multicharge support heros to kill them out right.
  16. New book looks really cool, but it lacks punch really baddly. The best damage as has been sort of mentioned here is Dreadscythe Harridans, but i wouldn't take them for the most part. Being on 32s with a 1" range is a a completive death sentence with out some sort of crazy attack profile, and these struggle to match up damage (output wise) with other similar units from other armies. I do believer reapers or chainrasp will be the go to options for your hammer units. In units of 20. One of the key things that has been similar with AoS is you want to really smash whatever you are fighting, and to do that you need want to gets unit killing levels of damage when you fight, so that enemy can't do thier thier back at you. The reason i say these two units are key is not only due to thier ability to attack in 2 ranks, but also because they buff very nicely off the lightshard. I think in a way this army will play A LOT like deepkin players say there army plays (this isn't really the case for reason i won't get into). The idea is you want to soften the enemy army and position for that perfect turn of attacks. This means getting charges, and getting all the charge buffs off, and then when that moment happens you pop the light shards. For this battle plan i think most armies will aim to take either 2 units of 20 chainrasp or 2 units of 20 reapers. In the case of rasp you might likely take 3 of said units. From there I think you will aim to fill with support units and tarpit units. From here you will pick your favorite to hit and to wound buffs and support units that will help you manuever for your big turn. Maybe i pigeon hole the army too much, but it just seems to really lack important punch, with out also being super durable to make up for it. So it really feels line another finese deepkin style army, but you are only really going for one good turn. Units of note. For MSU charging units i vote hexwraiths. The extra d3 mortal wounds will be great, and 3 units charging a hero could be game winning. Also they are a nice long unit that can charge in such a way as to screen your other units that are in melee. They also can turn 1 movement deny your opponent, even easier with that last minute unit switch around deal. I think most nighthaunt games will be won and lost off hexwraith play.
  17. I think the changes made the army stronger. That said I think the army has a much higher skill ceiling. Turn 3 is a knock out punch. That said we don't do SOOOO much damage with most of our units to win with jsut one turn of combat, like we used to be able when the first book dropped. Instead you are now required to be active turn 1 and 2 to weaken the enemy so your turn 3 can finish the game. @Derek I don't remember your list exactly, but I recommend reavers over the shark in your list. That and/or aether wings for objective control as mentioned previously. I think you need just a little more of a punch to help you clean up units with your turtles. From there the power of your turtles is the king buffing all 3 in turn 1 or 2 to get attack first, and all them chomping into the same units. Alnernatively, thralls might also be great in your list givning you a back up hammer. So you either get more hammer by having reavers to help finish off whatever the turtles light up, or thralls that can come in later game, and maybe fill the space of a dead turtle on turn 3. @DocKeule I think your list might struggle to take advantage of Ionrach, take advantage of the king buff in turn 2, and have a powerful turn 3. Your list ask a lot of those 3 morrsarr, and the sharks activating i don't think will have enough of an impact activating early. My recommendations are to go one of a few ways with your list: For all your list find a way to squeeze in 1 or 2 units of thralls. The thralls give you more garenteed gas in turn 3. I didn't sit and figure the points for below so forgive me. If you like sharks, which yours look quite nice by the way. Fuethan with 1 shiver will work really well for you. 3 sharks is worth a king buffing them in turn 1 or 2 along side the king and the morrsarr. Dropping 1 shark should give you room to fit in 1 squad of thralls in your current list. This way turn two you king buff the morrsarr, sharks, and then the king himself. Then in turn 3 your thralls will have gotten to that one key location or fight, and what ever is left of your sharks/morrsaar/king can come in and hopefully finish up the game. You may consider swaping a squad of reaver for ishlaen, more morrsarr, or thralls to help you zone alittle better. To stay in ironrach: I recommend droping maybe 2 sharks and convert one reaver squad to thralls. This should give you space to take 2 more morrsarr, you can either have them in one unit or 2 seperate units. This gives you a second squad that can use Ionrach. As i've mentioned before the msu vs big squad is a tacktical choice. If you don't have more morrsarr I'd say 6 ishlaen would be even better, they'd be a great unit to throw out first as they'll be more likely to come back home. Turn 1: this lets you alpha with ishlaen or morrsarr Turn 2: Your fresh morrsarr unit, king, and sharks can swing into the same target. If your alpha squad still remains ionrach ability again will let your move them some where that should protect your turn 2 squad Turn 3: Your thralls can come into play.
  18. I'd say the clan rats win because they have double the wounds and can put out the same damage if your investing heavy in both. I'd also say you'd get more of your points worth of clan rats actual piling in and fighting than you would thralls. With half the wounds thralls can be easily ignore with a few mortal wounds. Thralls are better as a stand alone unit. Which is why i say they are great 1 or maaaybe 2 of in any list. I'd say every deepkin army will have atleast one thrall squad With a list full of other important threats that matter earlier the thralls can take thier time moving up the table, and be primed to be in a good spot turn 3. Thralls are cheap enough that they never break the bank. So you can "waste" the poinst for a unit that won't have a meaningful impact until turn 3. They are very similar to morrsarr, except morrsarr can be made more relevant turn 2 due to speed and ionrach.
  19. I think this lost him the game here. He he let you go first I feel confident his army would have done to you, what you did to him this game. Reaver and thralls with no tanky support they'd all die about as fast as 50 clan rats. I think the list is quite neat all else aside. You might consider giving the storm boy the book. Its less useful on the storm boy, but it makes the model more of a threat. It can win games as the list above does. However, you lose tactical control over the game. It's why gotrek never really took over. Even at the peak of his powers. Thralls are a bit better and worse. Better in that they are cheap, and worse because they die to anything about as quickly as clan rats, but they cost about twice as much. I think one or two units of 10 should be in about every list (because the math works that way most of the time). It's a good unit to force your opponent to move around them.
  20. I think where the army is now an aggressive take is the best take. This has always been the case for deepkin. The turn 3 generally is just for clean up. However, you need be aggressive turn 1 and 2 to have a real game. The new book gives us better turn 1 and turn 2 tools. I think sharks are a little disapointing out side a full shiver. I think they have middle melee and ranged power. While the range power can overlap accross units, i think you really want the 3 sharks chomping in melee at the same time on turns 1 and 2 to make them worth bringing. I think they have real milage in fuethan, but outside of fuethan i think they'll just be there to fill out pointsl. A great arguement can be made for a king getting them to attack together (first) out side of fuethan, but i think there are better units for this. They really aren't powerful they have the overall damage output of a ranged unit. Speak of... I do think the reavers are quite good. Compared to the shark (which i think is the slot they compete for) shark melee+ ranged does about the same as reaver ranged alone, not including outside or personal buffs. With buff the sharks can pull a head, but not to a crazy amount. Forgotten nightmares keeps the reavers safe enough, and while they don't get the same fuel of buffs from the previous book, they still hit really hard and many of the buffs are baked into the profile. I also think they are one of three units that combo very well with the aspect of the sea. Ishlaen i'm surprised more folks don't like. I think in Ionrach with an aspect of the sea these are a perfect alpha strike unit. Charging early to get that +3 save and unrendable does matter. I think these can go in tie up a lot of units and do some good damage. Again another aspect of the sea synergy unit, and the rend profile is more homogeneous with the eel attacks meaning the aspect of the sea buff is more efficent on these than the morsarr varient. Speaking of against Morrsar, with the loss of range and extra attacks on the swords the ishlaen punch quite hard, harder than the sharks/reavers against most targets. I think playing them this way means they get beaten up quite badly after the first turn, but locking down your opponents turn one out the gate is very powerful. Morrsarr i do think still have a place. I think these are still kings of turn 3 clean up. TThey are super fast and hit very hard on the charge. I think ionrach is amazing for these models. As they can do a standard charge turn 2 against safe targets, and get retreat and charge on turn 3. With thier speed they'll more than likely be where ever you need them to be. The 1" range sucks really bad as you'll struggle to get many in. They might be best as MSU units for good and require the king to get them attacking all at once out of turn 3. So i think all list with want eels in Ionrach you can make a unit of 6 work, out side of a unit or 2 msu eels will be strong heavy hitters. Thralls: I think these are a meme. They have lots of potential and with the range increase they are in a great place. I think they can get some amazing things, but they are going to struggle getting the surface area they need to do thier thing. They are as slow as humans for no reason, and a turn 2 charge is going to be as much on your opponents terms as your own. I think the faction that buffs them is good and if you want to use that is the place. I do think they can preform well, but playing them is a lot more like playing gargants than deepkin, where you take a lot of the game out of your hands. They are an anvil unit in a way. They dictate what your opponent wants to do. They are a real threat and need to be dealt with. This combined with other units in the army will win games. A list I think will work well: I think this plays to a lot of the strengths above. I think the reavers help clean up a lot of messes and give you good objective holder units. Only thing i don't love are the thralls. They hit good turn 3 and can act as a cheap threat similar to how gotrek has been used, but take more space and hold objectives better. Morrsarr and reavers fight for who is reinforced and who is MSU. Reavers together don't give you a lot and make them tougher to use, but you have the CP to spare on keeping them around. Single unit morrsarr make great targets for the Ionrach hero action. MSU morrsarr will get more attacks in. Honestly, i'd likely drop the thralls in favor of allys if i had a good ally unit in mind. This or a 2nd thrall units for more board control and eel protection wouldn't be a bad idea. The king will likely go armor after a few more games.
  21. I agree, but it doesn't really help blood knights either right?? Where as radukar's +1 attack is a 100% zombie damage increase that is double with dance from a necro as a spell is boosted by vykros. Plus spore tracker lets you simply just win the games. That said i'll clarify that I don't think you are wrong. In fact, i agree with your argument in a wider sense for soulblight. 1 or 2 units of blood knights are a decent throw into any army. They are fast, durable, and hit decently hard, while not needing any real support to be affective, but as you say can benefit casually from any buffs you have. That all said i think if you go the idea route of looking at buffs, i'd recommend buffing zombies and graveguard, and having your blood knights benefit from said buffs more passively like radukar and unholy impetus let you do. Graveguard and zombies use the buffs more efferently and will put out way more damage for your buffing investment. Investing too heavily in blood knights i think is going to get you in trouble if you are looking to make a completive list. Again 1 or 2 units can be very power and game winning, but to many will cripple your list.
  22. I'd say the beast works quite fine with zombies, and Soma's buffs to dire dogs makes corpse carts more reliable. While spore trackers can make corpse carts quick enough to keep up with dire wolves and attacking zombiie units.
  23. I think all have thier place. Vykros is very weird and very specific. Kasteli relys on big alpha turns and 1 or 2 units max of blood knights with a bigger hitter general with artifact and command traits. Legion of the night is the army of zombies, skeletons, and graveguard. Basicly doing the Warhammer fantasy battle style of vampires. The main things are artifacts and abilities. Vykros basicly gives you worse +2 to cast as rerolls general is alittle worse than +2 to cast. So you'll get a good army wise casting bonus. From here skeletons and grave guard perform well getting an easy access to +1 to wound that doesn't take up that one command ability per unit per phase. I also think vykros can do we'll with a objective focused list with zombies. Spore tracker is a great free move and can give the zombies a potential 19" threat range with out rolling any dice. Letting you just shuffle lots of zombies onto objective, and catch key units. Kasteli I think is a trap. I think 3+ uunitsof blood knights will struggle to function well. Havin played Deepkin and having seen the chat here. Getting more than 3 model into combat will be a struggle. That's including trying to stack your buffs. I think 1 or 2 blood knights and a VLoZD with sword and relentless (it think it's called) is going to be the gravy. Hit hard get your buffs and hope to seize momentum. From there zombies and skeletons will be there to actually win the game and score objectives. That's the thing the zombies and skeletons can come back giving you so much objective control. You'll want serveral units or a few big ones. Legion of the night is great. Everything can work. Blood knights, skeletons, and zombies can all get great buffs from impetus. The sneak into the table and cover are very strong against the meta. Letting you protect power pieces and getting that bonus to save against early shooting that I think we will see a lot. The claw is a better bonus than rerolling your cast, and let's you get higher number protecting you from unbinds. You can go really nuts with Morris engines and corpse carts to set that bonus to the moon. Only claw downside is it being realaticely stationary, but if you bring the boat you can move that buff around the board. Honestly I think the three live and die off a few key artifact and command traits that are almost just must takes. I also think skels and zombies will be bread and butter to winning a lot of games. From there pick a monster or two, and then lastly pick your favorite flavor ice cream (kasteli, vykros, or legion of the night)
  24. battle scribe for AoS is like the worst thing to use i feel. I'd stick with warscroll builder personally.
  25. if you are looking at the GW site there are twp weapon sprues and 2 banner sprues in the box in memory serves. Otherwise there wouldn't even be enough sword and boards.
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