Riff_Raff_Rascal
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Posts posted by Riff_Raff_Rascal
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On 4/10/2024 at 6:10 AM, Tiberius501 said:
They kinda seem just as easy to paint as the current guys. If anything the extra 3D detail will make it even easier to contrast them and make them look better. Otherwise they have the same details on them as the current kit just done better, and having more open poses will make getting to all the areas easier.
You're probably not wrong. I've never touched contrast paints yet so I still don't know what that feels like. I do know the type of painter that I am and it gnaws at me to paint to my best wherever possible. Open poses generally pull me towards putting in more work. For that reason, I prefer the closed poses for mass troops so my sub-conscious hobby brain doesn't pull itself apart.
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on one hand, makes kitbashing other foot troops much easier with the open pose and high detail. However I do not envy anyone trying to paint up like 80 of them.
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@Lord Krungharr for the longest time I had always mis-read those Grand Strats. Most of them also say Masterclan heroes are included in that count. Over the last year I've been gravitating to double warlord battalions with full stack of foot heroes so its not too bad.
Alternatively I've loved Slaughter of Sorcery and just use my heroes as screens
. I enjoy the look of disgust of opponents as they successfully kill my grey seers inching me closer to 3 points.
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Probably last game with battle tactics until 4th comes out. Going against the new DoK Army of Renown for our gaming channel. Gotta represent. I'm a little rusty with secondary's so always welcome for suggestions. Here's my list
SpoilerPlayer Name: Skaven Mike
Allegiance: Skaven
- Grand Strategy: Masters of Execution
- Triumphs: Bloodthirsty, Inspired, IndomitableLEADERS
Slynk Skittershank (220)
Deathmaster (110)
- General
- Command Trait: Incredible Agility
- Artefact: Gnawbomb
Grey Seer (110)
- Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy
Grey Seer (110)
- Lore of Ruin: Skitterleap
Grey Seer (110)
- Lore of Primal Frost: Hoarfrost
Plague Priest (100)
- Noxious Prayers: Rabid-rabid!UNITS
10 x Plague Censer Bearers (200)
15 x Gutter Runners (300)
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
- 2 x Standard Bearers
- 2 x Standard Bell Ringers
20 x Clanrats (100)
- Rusty Spear
- 1 x Standard Bearers
- 1 x Standard Bell Ringers
10 x Night Runners (90)
4 x Skittershank's Clawpack (0)
1 x Warp-Grinder (60)
1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)BEHEMOTHS
Hell Pit Abomination (180)CORE BATTALIONS
*Warlord
**WarlordADDITIONAL ENHANCEMENTS
Triumph
TriumphTOTAL: 1960/2000 WOUNDS: 159
Game plan turn 1 is the following:
1. Hero Phase, cast all the spells. Skitterleap Gnawbomb holder towards enemy next to terrain. Death Frenzy the Censor Bearers. Hoarfrost Censor Bearers with whatever. Pray for Rabbid Rabbid on Censor Bearers. Gnawbomb activated on terrain nearby enemy sweet spot.
2. Movement Phase, teleport everwhere. Slynk, my boy, will land close, Gutter Runners in tow. Censor Bearers slink into Gnawhole in home territory and pop out of temporary one in middle of board.
3. Shoot Phase, season enemy with pepper-fire
4. Charge phase is the fun part. 4 bites at the apple for plague censors to charge at 9 in". Hear me out. Slynk's Clawpack makes first charge at 6" (need 9"). If fail to get 9", command re-roll. If still fail, charge Censor Bearers. If fail, use Bloodthirsty triumph to re-roll. All the while, the enchanced Masterclan trait is active, so if the first charge or its re-roll succeed, everything else is in. But I still have the insurance of a non-command charge re-roll.
5. Attack phase, Slynk Strikes first then fades. Censor Bearers issued all-out attack and I invoke Indomitable triumph for +1/+1.
6. Profit. The eshin and pestilens units are expendable. The rest of the game is body blocking and running away with plenty of wounds remaining while having fun.
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Its a very misleading article because it says some are getting replaced and others retired, but doesn't encourage players to still use the ones they have. For instance they could say clanrats are still in the game, its still perfectly acceptable use the old ones (honestly the island of blood rats look great for their age)
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Alright, its finally time to look inwards and accpet we will be losing stuff. Wasn't expecting such an honest article on the community page.
I feel for those BoC players. I look at their range and realize it was either us or them.
I laugh at the S2D players who spammed Warcry Warbands. The puzzling thing is they're great looking models. I guess they're still good for warcry.
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If they give Doomwheels an explosion rule i'd be in heaven
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In an effort to simultaneously support new players and alternative play modes for our lovely game, I've decided to develop rules for my own teams tournament.
I've started with the simple concept of something called an ally trait that can be used on your teammate once per game. The document pinned below is my first pass at the idea to add some new flavor to teams matchups with a little sprinkling of triumph and treachery for those long time AOS players. I tried to provide my game design tenants and mostly stuck to them. My brain gotta a little fried overthinking some of them so I think its time to ask for help.
Ultimately, Im still in need of some thoughts on how to handle command point sharing, the need for a unified Warlord ( general for the team), crossing the streams with abilities and most importantly the language between friendly, enemy and neutral models. I've certainly begun my own research on ideas in previous chats but I'm curious if my current idea sparks any new thoughts.
Ultimately I want to design a game mode that most closely resembles the 2K scale games (1k per player) because lets face it, most of the balance stems from it, but I'm always down to take chances.
Heres a link to my current doc, enjoy
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In an effort to simultaneously support new players and alternative play modes for our lovely game, I've decided to develop rules for my own teams tournament.
I've started with the simple concept of something called an ally trait that can be used on your teammate once per game. The document pinned below is my first pass at the idea to add some new flavor to teams matchups with a little sprinkling of triumph and treachery for those long time AOS players. I tried to provide my game design tenants and mostly stuck to them. My brain gotta a little fried overthinking some of them so I think its time to ask for help.
Ultimately, Im still in need of some thoughts on how to handle command point sharing, the need for a unified Warlord ( general for the team), crossing the streams with abilities and most importantly the language between friendly, enemy and neutral models. I've certainly begun my own research on ideas in previous chats but I'm curious if my current idea sparks any new thoughts.
Ultimately I want to design a game mode that most closely resembles the 2K scale games because lets face it, most of the balance stems from it, but I'm always down to take chances.
Heres a link to my current doc, enjoy
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GW at it again
Also GW: "check out this sick skaven short story to get you hyped"
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Very few mentions of shooting being an issue so far. Thats been a problem in the past. So I'm glad tha'ts not a top worry. A few mentions of MWs being too prevalent, but I will add that we've come a long way clamping down on that since AOS first edition (although rend is arguably still less valuable as well relating to some of your concerns about save stacking).
Big take aways from most of you is battle tactics need to be chucked into the sun. Yup. Sounds like that's a major source of complexity and is too important to ignore. Also terrain rules? What are those?
I would like to commend GW at least in one manner and that concerns external balance. Despite our gripes about point scoring, strength of books and minutia of core rules, the stats do show a steady trend towards a healthy "fat middle" of win rate (i.e. 45-55%). This bodes well for newer players in future.
I'm currently organizing a 1k teams tourney geared toward newer players and so all of this 3rd edition reflection is very helpful.
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What about Thryx's Coven Regiment of Renown? The parchment curse along along with a Plagueclaw Catapult seems like good synergy. Sure the upfront cost is steep, the regiment is actually a major discount for what Tzeentch has to pay. The Burning Sigil is also a nice back-up Warp-Lightning Vortex with summoning if you were already running 3 endless spells in your list anyways.
The really interesting interaction is Skaven's ability to hurt friendly models to proc the free unbindable spell cast per the regiments Profane Potential ability. We have the unreliable Plague Priest warscroll prayer that affects all units in an AOE or the absolutely atrocious Chain Warp Lightning spell from our Warpvolt Spell lore.
Still, use the old book while we can I guess.
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These days the Furnace is in a great spot since it can push itself now, and thus makes it a more enticing candidate for your general. Makes better use of our artifacts over the Corrupter as well. That said, the I believe the best that maggotkin have to offer is the Sloppity Bile-Piper and may give a good excuse to run a Verminlord Corrupter (piper's ability only requires Nurgle Demon).
Nurglings are funny but for the same points/role I'd rather use Gutter Runners personally.
The Gutrot and Blightkings is fine for some punch but remember they're still squishy without their 5+ ward. Perfectly viable if you use them as a counter punch behind a screen of rats. Perhaps ambush them on a side objective and use a tunnel team to create a screen of clanrats?
Phulgoth’s Shudderhood is also an option for some toughness and some flying units. You can sidestep the pestilens general requirement because its an army of renown. It has a resistance to shooting which would diversify our defenses. The troops themselves are just meat shields, the blightkings will still give you that anti-horde, but that Harbinger of decay hero is spicy.
Lots of potential with that guy.
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Has anyone checked in with our maggotkin allies? I'm lookin for some tech to add behind our back lines. I've been re-inspired since grabbing Skabbik's Plaguepack.
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On 1/1/2024 at 2:31 AM, Skreech Verminking said:
I really like that although in this case I was wondering if it would make sense to instead of limiting it to only 3 weapon teams that it would instead be a buffer for all weapon teams in the army.
Says the player who spams weapon teams. Ive seen your list building before.
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On 12/30/2023 at 12:08 AM, Skreech Verminking said:
with the verminlord warbringer (if even encessary) will give them +1 to hit and to wound.
give the gnash gnaw on their bomes and skavenbrew.
Man, this has been a personal sticking point of mine for 2 editions now. By both being command abilities in the combat phase its been hair-pulling frustration trying to get stormvermin to be super scary. If I had anything to add to your FAQ, I'd make the Gnash-Gnash ability just that, an ability. So that you can put a All-Out-Attack or Tyrant of Battle CA. Having the retinue ability of other foot heroes where you activate as a pair would also just make clawlords way more enticing en masse.
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Here me out, the following recipe needs a Verminlord Corrupter, Greyseer, Clawlord, Purple Sun, Warlord battalion, 30 Plague Monks, totaling 900 pts:
1) Cast Hoarfrost, roll like a god, get the 5+, target Plague Monks
2) Greyseer uses Skavenbrew artifact on Plague Monks
3) Cast Purple Sun
4) Charge Plaguemonks + Clawlord w/ Warpstone Charm
5) Lord of Pestilence CA on Plaguemonks.
Result is ~120 attacks, 3" RNG, +2/+3/-5/1 dmg. Nat 6's are -7 rend!
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Just now, Skreech Verminking said:
Does this include a clawlord or verminlord warbringer with the warpstone charm?
The people in charge of the previous correction have promptly been sacked.
Clanrats have -5 rend this season
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7 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:
Does that include the effects of a Purple Sun from a Grey Seer?
Correction: Clanrats have -4 rend this season
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@Skreech Verminking i re-read your FAQ suggestion and made some notes as i went through. They're condensed below.
Overall thoughts: I feel a lot of suggestions are hopiuem fueled but they are fun, which is the point. Frankly nailing down the battle trait section could make everything else fall into place and not require much change elsewhere. That doesn't necessarily mean adding many more rules (see your Moulder section) but can suddenly make our troop units more fun. This is a flaw I think that our current book has where the battle traits are basically hero locked, and doesn't support our massive bench of units in a meaningful way.
Your design philosophy seems to about filling in gaps and building upon the old. If I were you, i'd go full tin-foil-hat and make some crazy structural changes, this is a fan FAQ after all. AKA you can get more nutty.
Spoiler
Battle Traits
- I don't have much context for your choice/necessity for bravery modification. I do recognize this was our old rule but theres new tech out there we can use. We obviously suffer the most from bravery in the game but in the larger picture I'd wait to see if bravery is used differently altogether in 4.0. I will suggest however to consider adding horde bonuses directly onto warscrolls so that you can tailor them to what their MSU is (see your clanrat rule).
- Too little context to justify a new battlefield role. I see what you did with the discounted points and the tech is already in game to restrict reinforcement points with controlling battleline.
- More reinforcement points, no argument there.
- Redmaw changes i remember discussing in length about. You present a solid modification to a still problematic ability.
- Clawlords: recommend min. 3 required for the bonus ability to stay in line with the others and would make greater use of the fun ability. Personal taste but instead a 4+ refund if issued to verminous unit? Commmand point centric builds is the verminous way regardless.
- Moulder: The design is a welcome one that is adaptive and reminds me a lot of the Legion of the First Prince sub-allegiance ability to adapt mid combat for S2D armies. However, the individual mutations are wordy as hell and as a player I'd prefer a single ability (theres lots of "in addition"). This section has the most fat to trim.
Spell Lores
Personal taste but these spells feel outdated. i'm ready to move on and try new tech for our greyseers. Same goes for the Warpvolt lore. The Verminlords certainly need their own lore, perhaps use this space to recommend 3 spells for them exclusively?
Command Traits
- Overseer of Destruction: I see what you're trying to do, you wanna make Doom-flayers good again. I see you. I say let them eat cake. Here's a wild idea but why not make 3 weapon teams get that bonus at the list building stage? If you're using up a command trait you might as well garauntee that the units get their bonus the whole game.
- Architect of Death: An intriguing change considering the plagueclaw's debuff on targeting a unit. Now you can hit two units with one model. I like it.
Warscrolls
For the most part warscroll re-writes need to be done across the board. Without much context, they seem arbitrary, but i understand the fun they add. The additions that consider the other changes in your FAQ are what is most relevant.Notable exclusions are Skritch Spiteclaw and the Screaming Bell, both currently do nothing and any suggested changes are welcome.
Grand Strats
-Hired to Kill-slay: youre picking the hardest target, which incentivises alpha striking and overwhelming firepower. this is perfectly viable but a playstyle thats been done before. I instead prefer a feat of cunning and careful planning not so much the target choice. For example, "This grand strat is completed if an eshin hero slays and enemy hero picked to be a target from the Eshin battle trait and wasn't damaged by any other friendly units that turn". 1V1. So its possible for a single deathmaster to chase down a foot hero while still giving your opponent some counter-play AND incorporating the battle trait.-Alpha Rat: This is hilarious. Appreciate that its not clan locked as well. Theres built in diminishing returns by going beyond 3 heroes as it might be harder to convince your opponent to kill more. Very clever design. You should be proud of this one.
-Who to blame-fault: Yes.
Points
Really hard to make meaningful point changes without it being a race to the bottom and also considering my point about the warscrolls. That said, I recognize your love for stormvermin.Hot take: We may need to get real and also consider the possibility of cutting models completely from our line. I'm pretty sure this is the most reasonable/honest thing GW could read from your fan FAQ.
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Should we tell them about clanrats with -3 rend this season?
Or everything has -3 rend this season?
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@Lord Krungharr often thats true. No matter the skill level of a player you're up against, as soon as you explain that you teleport through gnawholes they overcompensate the first few rounds to deny you fun. Best make that the plan all along and have fun other ways. I only experimented with the above idea with the gnawbomb because in my local meta I'm always going first because, well, 13+ drop lists will do that, so my initial gnawhole placement is inspired by that.
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Every list prior, I've gone without the deathmaster and used the soul scream bridge (only 30 points more). The reason for the switch was 1) i've always proxied the bridge with trash so a no-go with a tourney, 2) Bridge harder to cast than Skitterleap , 3) You can choose to have the deathmaster stay nearby to issue inspiring presence to the inevitable battleshock or have him pop back to safety in the following movement phase, 4) Another body for points scoring, 5) Infinite range instead of ~24 range (if you're a pro). All upside from my end. The consistency is way higher.
Bonus: You can casually switch your playstyle up during consecutive games by conservatively deploying your gnawholes so that match-up dependent and send 3 units total through gnawholes and pop out the newly created 4th. one. Might be interesting for a turn 1 Intimidate the Invaders to rotate your forces around the table, depending on the matchup of course.
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By golly I did it! Went to a Food for the Food God tourney and after 6 years of playing this game, killed Bastion of the stormcast. I've never beaten a list with him in it until this weekend. Mind you my opponent was extremely cocky with his forward deployment.
My recipe: Dreaded Death Frenzy, Mystic Shield, Hoarfrost (-3 rend), Crack the Whip, All-Out Attack on double-reinforced Rat Ogres. Skitterleaped a Deathmaster with the Gnawbomb, ogres popped out, made their charge and smacked Bastion back to Azyr.
Took nearly 1500 points of my list to get involved but I did it. Do try this at home.
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. I enjoy the look of disgust of opponents as they successfully kill my grey seers inching me closer to 3 points.
AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion
in Skaven
Posted · Edited by Riff_Raff_Rascal
The consequences are still unclear. But still I'm happy with this rule too.