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I will abstain of using swear words. But this is one of the instances where I would usually use them plenty. THIS outlook is beyond spiteful, and just throws unnecessary hate on the army, and spits into the face of anyone who actually likes it for what it is. How did you even arrive at the conclusion that the book is the worst of all others ? Have you even played any other faction, that are not the top 3 Tournament contenders ? you so vehemently declaring something like this bids the to question whether you did because there is stuff MUCH worse than this army. CoS is a Swiss knife army that can tackle pretty much anything due to the deep pool of units it can draw from. Should one choose to NOT use the tools presented to them, then they by themselves are responsible for their loss. Especially in situations where one or two units of the right choice would do all the difference in such a game. Srsly, I dont care if you dislike the army to the degree that you present it as, but if thats how you wanna go around doing things then be of such courtesy as to not spew this nihilistic toxicity in a CoS sub-forum where people gather to constructively discuss and enjoy the army and what it brings to bear, rather than lament, spit poison and shake their fist in the air with"oh just how horrible" the battletome and all the units, and all the models and everything about it is. You hate this army that much ? Well good for you because guess what, nobody is forcing you to play this "horrible piece of xxxx army". Feel free to pick a different one more to your liking and let people like what their like without throwing shade on it. Wow...just wow....

I dont know If i am posting it in the right spot but oke. In the discussion of do you realy play cities of sigmar I mentioned that I played mixed and kitbashed. People demanded pictures so here I go The army is based on a outpost of tempest eye in the skies. I call it karaz a kanak. Only dwarfs and humans live there and some stormcast. The order of the knights panter has a chapter established there. With multiple units showing there alliance. The stormcast haven't gone back yet to sigmar so they have adopted to the height.

Playing Cities of Sigmar? Well Me and @Baz are going to give it a good try next week with a 2,500pts a side battle using all of the Streets of Death rules and a sprinkling of Arcane Objectives. I’ll be fielding an Anvilgard force made of Freeguild whilst @Baz will be bringing a Living City list! You can’t get more CoS than this!!😍😍😍

@TALegion Your list is what I'd call pretty iconic (Thanquol, Clanrats, lots of Skryre), and a lot of people will naturally gravitate towards this. There are some problems: a) Thanquol needs endless spells. His warscroll spell is flat out bad, and you don't want to waste a +2 wizard that costs 400 pt. b) Cannons have a niche, which is shooting - to hit targets (e.g. Hagg Narr shrine with gryph feather charm is useless to target with Jezzails) and high price monsters, especially ethereal ones. The problem is that 2 and an Engineer sets you back 460 pt, while over the course of 4 turns (always overloading one, each lasting two turns) and always rolling 1s for your power level, you'll do 60 MW. Realistically, you'll have nothing worthwhile to shoot first turn and not always roll 1s, so half that seems likely. Investing that much leaves you very vulnerable against hordes and rush armies. c) You need more bodies. 60 Clanrats just don't cut it with the amount of damage many fast armies can put out. If you get double turned, the game ends before you had your first real go. d) Overseer of Destruction is only worth it if you plan to bring at least 3 Ratlings (preferably 4). They are the only weapon team that profits from this trait, which GW could have written down in the tome instead of this confusing keyword jungle. e) Warpcog in mixed Skaven: I just can't see a place for it. Traditionally, what it has been used for was to provide a 1-drop alpha strike for your 9 fiends (it was risky, with a potential high reward). This isn't possible anymore. In mixed lists, you pay too dearly for the little benefit it provides, as almost everything is either grotesquly overtaxed, or has little to no effect. Arkhspark Voltik is the only worthwile one, as it makes your WLC somewhat reliable, but still not worth that amount of points. (Apologies to our Doomwheel aficionados, but I won't pay 320 pt tax for +3 to all moves). These points out of the way, here is what I would run while keeping the theme and original list as intact as possible: Thanquol on Boneripper (400) - Lore of Ruin: Warpgale Warlock Engineer (100) - Trait: Verminous Valour - Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power! Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (240) - Artefact: Suspicious Stone - Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy 40 x Clanrats (200) 40 x Clanrats (200) 20 x Clanrats (120) 6 x Warplock Jezzails (280) 15 x Skryre Acolytes (180) Warp Lightning Cannon (180) That's 1900 points, for the rest you want endless spells. With 100pt you can afford either WL Vortex or Geminids + Vermintide, whatever tickles your fancy. I do have an irrational dislike towards the Vortex, but there are a lot of people who had good success with and enjoy using it. If you do, Staff of rightful supremacy is a decent artefact choice as it allows an automatic dispell to move the location. How to build Thanquol? That really depends on how many hordes and/or strike first/last armies you face. My advice is to magnetize the weapons, so you can test and change freely when changing builds. Death Frenzy or Plague? Dependent on the Thanquol equipment and your typical opponents. DF is a good damage spell even with only 40 Clanrats (6.4 avg vs 4+ save, losing their size bonuses as early as possible), and can be a possible deterrent or at least draw out unbinds. I'd prefer it, unless you mainly fight OBR. Good luck with this, may you gnaw on many bones and suck the sweet marrow of your enemies lifes!

Bitter much? I have owned a high elf and a wood elf force for about 14 years now, when I was playing back in 6th edition, and I also have some empire models as well from the starter set of that time. Of the models that I owned, the only that haven't been squatted are Phoenix Guard and Dryads. Luckily, it is extremely simple to take most of the rest of my forces and do some small conversions (or no conversions) and tada, there is a unit in Cities that they can be (with some exceptions, like my hawk riders). Would I love if they had released a high elf tome? Sure. I would love it if most of my models were still usable as what I bought them as. But at the same time, I am more than happy to play cities of sigmar and buy into it more. Not only do I have tons of freedom for conversions, and making my army look how I want, but I have tons of variety as well. And while my army might not be as broken as skaven or slaneesh was on release, if I build it right I can easily be competitive. Yes, I can't use all my models to compete (drakespawn knights suck soooo much), but there are several different lists that people are running to competitive results, and if I am playing more casually, I can have different models for any opponent. No other battletome allows you that much freedom, and easily puts this tome as one of the best that GW has released to date.

Lol. When Cities is one of the only armies that can beat bonereapers. And when Cities just absolutely curb stomps Mawtribes. Until the release of Bonereapers, I was expecting Cities to become the new meta - I think it's S tier. It shoots Slaanesh and Khorne off the board. It outranges Skaven shooting and can gyrocopter plague monks off the board. It kills the Harvester and then can whittle down bonereaper mortek bricks. It can pop the general in a Daughters of Khaine hagg narr army. Hyperefficient shooting like Cities has breaks Age of Sigmar just as bad as stuff like reroll 3+ saves, and the fact that people like you think that Cities is so bad that it's a country mile behind new releases like Mawtribes.... man, I don't even know what to say, Icegoat. I don't even know what to say.

Sorry if I didn't make my point clear enough. It's not about playing the game wrong, it's about people struggling to win in competitive context because they treat CoS as a set of separate (and bad) army lists of various races, instead of one army authours wanted it to be. Nothing against theming your force, really. On the contrary, CoS offers great p[ossibilities here. It's only about those who complain they can't win, specifically, while not using the competitive options. Then we'll go back to this conversation in a year and we'll all say you were right. But for now, some of us actually enjoy CoS.

Well lads and lasses (if they're any) I played my two games today. I thought it would be against Fyreslayers but he played his new Slaanesh army. Second game was against Flesh-Eater Courts as expected. And believe it or not I WON AGAINST SLAANESH ! Game was two objectives in each territory, score 1 point each round for your own, 3 points for the one in the other territory. His list was (from memory): Shalaxi, 2 Keepers of Secrets, 9 Fiends, two squads of 5 Hellstriders, and I believe just a squad of 10 Daemonettes. I won't write you the whole game but the highlights: - My 12 Myrmourns killing the KoS Warlord with exactly 14 damage, buffed by 2 CPs from the KoS on foot; - Lord Executioner executing Shalaxi by himself; - My Spirit Hosts being basically on steroids and rolling 6s like no tomorrow; - My general KoS on Steed tanking the Fiends via the Dolorous Guard; - I killed Shalaxi and 3 KoS in the whole game because he spawned another My opponent hasn't quite grasped how to pilot his list yet, but I can tell you the nerf to the Locus of Diversion was felt pretty hard, now that it's on 3s and not 2s for the KoS he lost to my Myrmourns because of that. Also Nighthaunt has the manoeuvrability advantage against a such low-model count army and it allowed me to grab the enemy objectives securing me the victory. I don't know what a perfectly played HoS feels like but I can tell his Fyreslayers are much worse to face than this for now. Second game against Flesh-Eater Courts: Game was the one with three objectives in the middle, each round one of them is worth 3 points while the other are worth 1. He played King on Terrorgheist, 40 Ghouls, 10 Ghouls, 3 Horrors, 3 Flayers, 2 Varghulfs and some other Heroes on foot. I never faced a Terrorgheist before but knew it was just dangerous. I didn't know that the range of his Maw attacks was 3" so my Spirit Hosts screen was not enough to hide my Executioner, and with a CP to fight again he killed him with 12 MWs and also my KoS on foot who was nearby. That'll teach me to screen better against Terrorgheists. After a rampage where he killed my 12 Myrmourns, some spirit Hosts and the 10 Bladegheists sent to kill him he finally died but my forces were crippled and he had locked my line for enough time to score a good lead. It also didn't help that twice the 3 pts objective was in front of his 40 Unbreakable Ghouls. I had taken a risk in deployment by focusing on the center and right objective and letting his 40 Ghouls in peace because it's unkillable with his Battalion, but the luck wasn't on my side for the main objectives. I ended up losing by at least 7 points but we were both on our last units alive. My experience from these games is that two Battalions aren't too much as I feared earlier, I still have like 117 wounds in my list, with 3 CPs on my turn and 3 artefacts. The Lord Executioner with Sword of Judgement is the real deal, he performed well in the first game, but my opponent watched the game and knew he had to kill him first because he could've sliced easily through his Terrorgheist and then every other Hero. I like him as a physical and psychological weapon. The Dolorous Guard did wonders in the first game, where it successfully protected my KoSoES from harm until their deaths, but in the second game I had to make a choice and sent them both to grab the far right objectives without the general, where their additional attack helped kill the Horrors. They're still quite disappointing damage-wise though, never send them for anything else than killing 3-4 wounds on something max or they'll just get bogged down. My 10 Bladegheists were the usual blenders, charging, killing something, then dying when looked upon meanly. I'll try a Shroudguard alongside the Execution Horde or Dolorous Guard once, when I'll have 10 more of them. Myrmourns are powerful when supported, as expected. I loved the 9 Spirit Hosts in these two games, they reliably grind down tough targets when at full force and help my Executioner survive of course. Can't wait to have Olynder join the fray to res them back up. However I don't believe I'll play my Guardian of Souls in future lists. He never passed his Spectral Lure ONCE (be it casting badly or getting dispelled) and 140 pts for +1 to Wound is quite pricy. He did dispel twice, but that's about it. I won't say his aura wasn't useful, but I'm uneasy moving him around the right places where he won't die too early, I might just add more bodies. I'll try this list again Sunday against Ogres, I'll keep you informed as to the results.

https://thehonestwargamer.com/aos-list-rundowns/blood-and-glory-2109-1st-place/ Tada, there you go. It contains a single Knight-Incantor in order to cast the Everblaze Comet. Still suffused by your rabid hatred of stormcast preventing you from taking even a single model? That's ok - you can replace that one and the comet with 240 points of other models. Competitive? It took 1st place. Does it use your old ironbreakers? No, but that can be easily shifted around (especially without the Knight-Incantor/everblaze). Want irondrakes instead? You can probably swap either ranged unit for them and have about the same effectiveness.

Rush painting Ossiarch for an event this weekend, 50 mortek in 20 hours, katakros the harvester and shaper in 10. Need to get two catapults done over night and ready to go. thank god for low model count armies and contrast.

Nice to see a discussion here. Of course, I'll need to add things such as 'disposessed lost a way to negate magic, now they have only one' to my initial examples ; ). Because, from where I'm standing, they gained a lot of those. They gained +1 to unbind luminark, auto unbind incantor, 4+ ignore spells hallowheart spell... they didn't have those methods before and now they do! And, on the same subject, repeated notion that there is no inter faction synergy... Well ok, command abilities on warscrolls don't work between subfactions. That I agree on. But I also see my griffon general using 'run and shoot' on my darkshards. My sorceress giving +1 to wound aura to my pistoliers. Hurricanum giving +1 to hit to all of the above, and said pistoliers getting re-roll charge aura from, say, a sorceress on a dragon. There are a lot of inter faction synergies, they are just mostly on city artifacts, spells and abilities. Hell, I have a gunhauler that's able to retreat and shoot thanks to being bundled with freeguild units and it's not even from CoS book! Also. If we take one of the more used combos - a sorceress kills a bleaksword, gets +2 to cast. Casts soulscream bridge (at greater range than any other army usually can, given that realm rules often don't show up on tournaments at all!). Bridge transports a hurricanum, runelord and irondrake unit. Irondrakes get double shots with both rend and hit bonus. There are 3 factions involved in this thing. 4 if there's azyros in the mix to optimise the shooting even further. Plus a generic Cities allegiance ability on top of that. How's that not an inter faction synergy? As for 'it's the same as playing mixed order and/or firestorm cities'... I don't thing that mixed order and firestorm allegiances had those huge lists of universal support spells, artifacts and command traits. It's almost like they weren't a battletome allegiance armies, like CoS are. One more thing that kind of fascinates me is 'we didn't get endless spells'. Yeah, we kinda didn't. We also got every single generic endless spell buffed. To a level few faction specific spell can accomplish, really. And if that's not enough, we get stormcast spells as well without resorting to allies. Yeah, we got no new spell models. Which is a shame from a collector's perspective and confirms that CoS is basically a 'tie loose ends' tome, but from a practical standpoint? We have more strong endless spells than any other faction in game. Now, let's talk about statistics. Yes, CoS are way below average. Like, Kharadron level. But, as @Kramer said, they are pretty unique in that respect that despite this, they're still placing high in tournaments. Show me a large tournament won by, say, KO. Which kind of leads me to believe that 'many people are playing it wrong' theory may have some merit. No one says that phoenix guard heavy hallowheart is weak. Really. I've done some research after reading responses in this trend, and it really places generally in upper half of tournament rankings. I mean, OBR would have worse tournament record too if for some reason there was a large group of people drastically opposed to playing Petrifex due to thematic reasons. And claimed that including any Crawlers ruins their army fluff. DoK would be much worse, statistically, if parts of player base refused to use anything but Melusai and Avatars of Khaine. Hell, Idoneth place above average despite most of their book being terrible, they have like three good units everyone uses. Cities are unique in that respect. It's a book that brought together people used to vastly different playstyles, not all of whom take to the change kindly. Yeah, dwarves and high elves players, along with many others, wanted their 'real' books. And honestly, this is not it. They have a right to be disappointed but in my opinion not because their book is bad, but because their book still doesn't exist at all and who knows if it ever will. Instead, they got a book that lets them use their units together with variety of new ones, designed to work as one faction.

There's a thing that pops up in many CoS tactical discussions and I wonder if you've noticed it and what's your opinion about it. Especially in the discussions of 'I can't win with CoS, what am I doing wrong' kind. It looks like this: someone either asks for advice or posts a battle report in wich CoS lose. You look at the army list and it is, say mostly darkling covens infantry lead by a dreadlord on dragon. Maybe even with some drakespawn. The army gets demolished. And the player asks 'I keep losing with my dark elf themed list, what can I improve in my tactics?" Or the other one: "this is my list, but i keep struggling with mobility, how can I counter it". The list is 100% disposessed. The player can be finally persuaded to consider gyrocopters at least, they're dwarves too... Everything else is out of question. "I need a substitute for an ambush unit, I can't use shadow warriors as I'm playing freeguild"... There's a lot of those. If we look at those winrate statistics floating around, CoS is below average despite seeming like a solid army... and I can't help but wonder if it's because many people claiming to play CoS simply.. well.. aren't. Disposessed, darklings or freeguild were barely playable factions in their GHB days and now they simply... aren't. Those factions are basically gone. There's one faction now, it's called Cities of Sigmar, and it has a huge unit roster. The most obvious synergies are inside the old mini-factions, yes, but they are not the only ones. Those irondrakes buffed by the runelord are good, but teleported with a bridge cast by a sorceress who just sacrificed a bleaksword to get +2 to cast, they are *better*. Those sisters of the watch buffed by the prince are good, but with a hurricanum behind them, they are *better*. The living city ambush skill used to teleport a wanderer unit, like in the old days, is good, but if you teleport a dragon it is, probably, *better*. If you look at this like this, the question "I refuse to use 80% of my options, why do I keep losing" answers itself. What I'm asking for is has anyone else noticed that some of us here have a problem of embracing the fact that we're a combined faction now? Did you have this problem at the beginning? Do you have it now?

I don’t play CoS but I like reading the exchange of point of views here. It does seem like people who wanted to have a easily playable list with an old wfb army have a tougher challenge. I understand why it can suck; on the other hand it’s not a problem specific to AoS since a lot of factions struggled for years with outdated army books, and some units gained or lost power through the editions. Still it feels like with a bit of flexibility you could do some interesting dwarves or empire lists if you try. On the other side I get that it’s frustrating to see people playing « half the army » and complaining that it sucks. There’s so much cool modeling opportunities too for a combined force. Still most people complaining are just venting or a bit emotional about the good old days and it’s not a reason to start thinking of « old world players » as a bunch of sour grapes. Except for a certain frozen goat who seems hell bent on screaming it’s hatred to everyone, in every thread, no matter what response it gets... it’s starting to feel like trolling, sorry, troggothing... to sum it up, let’s all be nice to eachother, also I’m not a mod 😅

Here you go. Test it out, tell us how it went. Keep your general and adjutant close to ironbreakers, use the bridge to get to the enemy, drop general's command on both shooters, keep them in hurricanum range. Drop ignite weapons on the shooting unit. Use ironbreakers and guard to shield the shooters for a moment. I'm not sure why am I writing this, as we all know you won't try this, given the fact that you'd lose your reason to complain.

tried double Bloodwrack Medusa on Wed (one shrine, one foot) and in turn 2 both shot into 40 Mortek guard, killing 15. The overlapping shooting on a compact horde unit is great. Sadly I only got 1 turn of shooting with them as it was blood and glory and I won turn 3

The premium rewards were sets from armies from each 4 grand alliance. The Death stuff being FEC.

Not used but much like anything, they basically need to be in numbers to do anything. They also help fill out a relatively cheap Battalion which is nice if you want Gnobs and some extra shooting. There is probably some nice synergy with them removing screens for the Fat Lads to clobber the juicy stuff.

The double turn makes me think more than in 40k. I play both systems a lot and I feel like I require a lot less foresight in 40k. The fact that the turns follow a set pattern means I look one turn into the future and that's it. Everything is expected and there is less agency. I'm good at running statistics in my head and it means I can come up with a decent average for how many shots at what strengths and AP is required to eliminate every one of my opponents units then it's just a matter of target priority to minimize return fire. I can set up crazy Gambit turns where I over extend greatly with only a very small danger things won't go to plan. The double turn makes me play safer and more conservatively. I can't rely on knowing the turn order and I need to think on wether it's better for me to go first or second each round. I always plan to be double turned if I go first and often give up the first double turn if I win the roll off so that way later in the game I have the option to take one when it is more advantageous for me. Its fun for me but I can understand why it's not for everyone.

But this right here is just flat out wrong. Even if a Double Turn doesn't happen in a game, the RISK of it happening is the important part, and it plays a big role. Good players take calculated risks based on this - What if it doesn't happen? Well it obviously doesn't happen, but that doesn't mean it hasn't played an affect on how the player moved and made other decisions during their turn, because there was a chance of it happening. You could zone out units like Fyreslayers HGBs very easily. Without the risk element you could just go "oh threat range is X inches? I'll just move outside of X+1 inches" since there is zero threat of the opponent suddenly being able to move closer. This is what I mean by the game being easily calculated and predicted. There is such a big difference between the current game where a Double Turn doesn't happen, but the risk of it is in play, versus the current game where a Double Turn CAN NOT happen. Im honestly surprised you can't see this. Screening would be significantly less important if everything was in a set order of events. Right now you can sit in a bad position with no real way of winning, but you can take a calculated risk and bank everything on being able to move twice in a row and wrap around your opponents units and get an important charge off, securing a kill on important units/heroes that could open up the game. Or an extra round of shooting/magic etc. I think this creates a completely different element to the game, which would be gone in a fixed turn order.

@Darkhan With every change of our rules I always break out an updated list of my alpha strike stormvermin list using the gnawbomb method. This is what I have at the moment. The goal is to get the stormvermin wherever you need to cause as much chaos as possible. With All-out-attack (re-rolls 1 to hit), +30 bonus, +1 attack from clawlord and +1 attack from skavenbrew, I can safely say that I have tons of fun. Truly, the spice is in Death Frenzy because unlike alpha strike lists for other armies, skaven can retaliate harshly even if the initial turn for you is a big whiff. Some would still argue that Monks are cheaper and the better choice for list building, but I get an excuse to play stormvermin to their fullest potential. Fully painted, good-looking models doing work is satisfaction enough (for now).

You're confusing your inability to play the game well with CoS being bad. Understandable but very wrong as is evidenced by CoS performance in the hands of less arrogant and more skilled players.

Dear Mods, could we maybe remove that pre-tome-poll from this topic? The tome is already launching and that poll seems always weird to me, compared with the other threads. Thanks!

I disagree on much of this. I don't see CoS squatted within a year, and I think the book is very good. Good does not mean oppressively overpowered, it means just about where the balance needs to be, and with a large percentage of choices being relevant. If you want a bad book, look at Slaanesh, it is badly balanced internally and externally.

The people playing cities of sigmar are not your twelve year old two base coats and wash I just bought three thousand points of ossiarch bone reapers fools. These are people who have owned their models for decades. And GW decided to give these people the worst army book in age of sigmar. Walk into an actual warhammer shop you would not even be aware cities of sigmar is an army. They might as well release a Brettonian battle tome for people with olf Brettonian armies. They would probably put as much thought into as they have cities of sigmar It truly would have been better to mass squat cities at this point. It just leaves a sour and bitter taste when every other new tome overpowers yours by a country mile. All so GW can stagnate the human dwarf and dark elf line into nothingness. It will all be gone in a year.

No one is telling anyone they're playing it wrong - the OP is discussing specifically the competitive nature of Cities which requires making use of multiple factions. You can play Cities however you like but you have to understand that the results you get when choosing to play a mono subfaction aren't going to be indicative of the potential of the book.

Whats up with TGA and people here telling others they are playing the game wrong because they don't play it like oneselves? One or two years ago this community was much more civil and humble. Now everything is drawing lines on the sand. True AoS fans vs False AoS Fans or worse... WHFB fans that play AoS.

So, the section about the Marks that you are referring to is specifically talking about about the Subjects (specific hero) Mark that he produces (Aura). When you have multiple marks, you must select one to use as your AURA. So, you have a hero unit, and that bro selects a mark of Khorne, and that mark then becomes an aura that has a range of 12” which grants reroll hits. If that bro is your general, the aura he has also grants +1 W. That aura affects any S2D unit that has the same god KEYWORD that the hero bro has. So, in this example, Bro’s aura affects Chaos Warriors marked with Khorne, Knights marked Khorne, Archaon, but not Slaanesh Chosen. Now, Archaon chooses Khorne as his Mark AURA, and produces the same affect as above to the Warriors, Knights, himself and The Hero Bro, but not to the Slaanesh Chosen, even though Archaon has the Slaanesh KEYWORD, he chose to produce the AURA MARK of Khorne. A Sorcerer Sis chooses to be marked Slaanesh when you set her up on the battlefield. As a S2D hero, she too has an AURA that affects units with the same mark: Slaanesh. Sis’ AURA affects the Slaanesh Chosen and Archaon (because he never lost his Slaanesh KEYWORD), but does not affect Bro, Warriors or Knights because they only have the Khorne KEYWORD. im sure this will show up when they release the S2D FAQ after a few weeks, and it will shine some light, but this is how I and a lot of my tourney friends interpret the rule. this is why the Warshrine is so powerful with Archaon...the Warshrine prayer doesn’t care what mark the Warshrine is. When you select a unit to target with the Warshrines prayer, the target gets the first bonus, and receives the second bonus if the targeted unit has the same keyword as the prayer. Aka. Archaon always receives both buffs from the Warshrine.

It's 5-0'd two GTs. The book is great, most people are just bad at using it. It's a very high ceiling book and if you bothered to actually watch the stats show you'd know Rob specifically talks about the CoS win rate. There's an elite pocket going 5-0/4-1 with the book and then a big swath of bads going 2-3. It's not the books fault people don't play it well. But obviously watching the stats show or trying to get any context that challenges your view is outside your purview - you need CoS to be bad.

This could be Nagash trying to get his fingers on the Deepkin stealing his souls. It would be rather soon for a new death army though, but would probably be different enough to not really matter which grand alliance it is from. I could see it already in a deepkin dual box. The Wet and the Dead or Eels don't pay Bills.

new rumor plus this: plus this: is this ->

Hey guus just thought i would share photos of my completed army, they sre converted to be brettonians

Working on the Skirmish now.

I don't think Alarielle can use the hidden paths as her base is more than 6 inches so can't fit within the drop restrictions. But with her movement, you could run her straight up the board anyway.

Oh ******, you in deep 😂 care to share a picture of your armada? That should be impressive.

I'm sorry, what? AoS in its current form would be boring and dull without the Double Turn. There is no way you can remove it without revamping the whole ruleset of phases etc. Everything could be calculated and planned so easily.

The Double Turn is the most boring mechanic in the game, just followed by armies attacking first with all of their units. Playing 30 minutes on a 2 hours and a half game because your opponent gets double turn and spends two hours smacking you is just a miserable experience. It doesn't feel good when you have it, either, for the same reason. I don't care how you can plan for it, is just a extremely swingy mechanic based on a dice roll with nearly no relation to what the players are doing. The only reason people is defending it, is because is a GW sanctioned mechanic. Would the game don't have it, and some players would try to put it as house rules for tournaments, nearly everybody that is defending it now with tooth and nails would be opposed to it. The worst part of all of this is people defending other horrible mechanics (It doesnt matter Slaanesh can summon everything because if you get double turn you can kill it before he summons anything!) as balanced because they are balanced by this horrible mechanic. But I suppose that AoS rules writters are so magnificient that they have designed this miraculous mechanic nearly nobody else uses because they were enlightened by Zordon or something. The ones that wrote a 4 page rules game with no structure for building armies. Those ones. Also, all the comparisons claiming the double turn is what makes AoS special in comparison with the so much boring 40k... please. I play AoS despise of it, not because of it. In Middle Eart it is not bad because you alternate phases, but with the IGOUGO is horrible.

Ya ill throw up a picture every now and then, hoping to get most of it done over the holidays and then probably be a paus before I can gather what I need for flocking etc. Faster setup and gameplay is key for me as well, as well as a good solid terrain to play on. I toyed around with magnets at first, with a sheet of metal underneat the board. Bluetac would do the same but with less finesse I guess! But eventually I just decided I dont need it modular. So its a nice little hobby project at a scale I can really appreciate! And if it works out ill have a nice "painting" to hang on the wall as well! Ice and fire boards sound great, especially ice! I have always wanted to build ice and snow terrain but never had a game/army to fit and also felt intimidated by the process. But who knows, maybe ill eventually do another board for Warcry An "arena" would be absolutely perfect for Warcry, especially with the Splintered Fang! I would make the stands and pits part of the board as well, make it look like an arena event where everything went overboard and the fighters took over the entire facility! With lots of bloody corpses modelled into the scenery 🤣

I think that books with deep benches are going to have lower winrates due to more room for people to take sub-optimal lists for whatever reason (playstyle, favorite models, "being bad", ect.). I've shelved my Gloomspite army for now due to being terrible but there is a Gloomspite army build that does well at tournaments (Tons of Grots and spells) but I'm not interested in playing it. I suspect we'll see something similar with Slaves to Darkness. I think there's some powerful builds in that battletome but a lot of not very effective options too. Cities is probably particularly hard hit by this though for aforementioned reasons of people trying to play just one subfaction due to being returning players and only having their old fantasy battles army.

I've just bought the Blood Bowl Ogres to use two of them to make a butcher and a slaughtermaster If I get chance over the xmas period to work on them I'll put some WIP photos on here

How the hell did you understand that. The celestant prime has 3 attacks and gain +2 for each turn he spend in the sky. in each of your movement phase, you either decide to stay in the sky (so you gain+2 attack) or strike from the heaven (arrive on the board, no bonus anymore) If you arrive on the board turn 1, you didn't spend any turn in the sky, so you'll only have 3 attacks. If you strike from heaven turn 2, you spent one turn in reserve (the first turn) so you'll have 5 attacks, 7 turn 3, 9 turn 4, etc...

Stormcast changes are underwhelming. I might try running the Templar + 6 Desolator block, it would be fun to hit MONSTERs on a 2+ with Astral Templars. I'm also going to try swapping out the 10 Evocators for 6 Dracolines in my Anvilstrike list - the extra mobility and natively rerolling charges seems to be worth losing 8 dice on the lightning blast. Big nerfs to Skaven and Slaanesh make us indirectly better, but I still hope for a new battletome.

@Laststand The battle report was good fun. 3000 pt games always have this nice apocalyptic flavor. Generally, Log Cabin Gaming has a great atmosphere to their reports and it is nice to see the channel grow. I created a blog post trying to answer questions that appeared so far, including the question of how to equip them. If you have the models already, try out how much you like all the close range shooting. For my taste, going with double PM as well as double close range combo tends towards overkill and you might want to consider some longer range. At the very least, I'd change the Skavenbrew to Ignax's Scales. Your AW is an essential buff piece for your shooting, and if there is one thing you don't starve for with this list, it is damage. 😊 I do occasionally take an AW with Balewind and Chain Lightning in my double Bell builds. As the Bell aura does damage 50% of the time, it tends to create a nice, although unreliable, amount of AoE pressure on non-monstrous heroes. It's used occasionally with Fiends or PM, but compared to the bridge it does have disadvantage of being once per game and you "wasting" your artifact. It can most certainly catch your opponent of guard though, which is why these lists did have some success. The argument is not that Acolytes without MMMWP aren't good (they aren't great however), but rather that you miss out on too much. They do normally hit 1/2 x 1/2 = 1/4 = 4/16 of the time before armour. With MMMWP the equation changes to 3/4 x 3/4 = 9/16. It more than doubles the number of hits. It's the same for Stormfiends. As they trade some damage for tankiness, it's usually preferred to buff them, as you invested so much more and to make them an efficient use of your points you want to maximize their effect. As you pointed out, you could use Deranged Inventor as your command trait. This directly competes with Overseer of Destruction however, which for the same investment will net you more damage when going down the Ratling route. Personally I always found large (>20) blocks of Acolytes too unwieldy, but that's primarily because I feel naked without at least 120 melee models. Hopefully you will find more success and fun with them!

I find in my CoS lists, I use lots of Stormcast to fill my holes. A Lord Celestant on Star Drake with Iron Oak Artisan in Living City is a tanky-killy hammer of a unit that helps deliver solid distraction and is useful to fight other large units on the board. I couple this with ranged Irondrakes and a Runelord painted in a scheme that complements my Stormcast. Sometimes, if I feel particularly shooty, I bring in a unit of 9 Vanguard Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows. My battleline consist of Longbeards, sometimes Pheonix Guard with a Emerald Lifeswarm if I feel like it. The amount of wounds brought to the board are high, and there is no points limit to the size of units of Stormcast you can bring, but rather a unit count limitation. You see, you can play your "Dispossessed" or your "Pheonix Guard" and might not have all the units you need to make it wholly a "Darkling Covens" list, but you can supplement Stormcast, or Kharadron Overlords and Sylvaneth respectively. It just seems to be that the right tools for the job are simply not being taken in people's lists. A Darkling Covens army might not have enough Darkshards, but might be heavy in Drakespawn knights. I say just ally in some Vanguard-Raptors which are about $30 a box and not expensive. If they lack cavalry, bring in some Fulminators. A unit of 2 for $50 will do nicely. If you need solid monsters/biguns, Hydra's in a Living City army are especially tanky and can deliver quite a punch! But if you need more, bring the Celestant-Prime to deliver an incredible amount of damage. I have found CoS to be highly competitive with solid choices of 1 wound battleline for relatively cheap (both money wise and points wise) that can easily be brought back with an Emerald Lifeswarm. Use these to screen your amazingly overpowered ranged options and watch you play 40k with your melee based opponent! If a CoS player wants to be competative, they most certainly can be, $30-80 is more than enough to send any army into the right direction, it all comes down to correctly diagnosing what your army lacks and filling the holes. Example: A CoS Greywater Fastness list I made to Alpha Strike at my local tournament. Runelord (90) - General; Command Trait - Ghoul Mere Ranger Runelord (90) - City Role : General's Adjutant Cogsmith (60) - Artefact: Mastro Vivetti's Magnificent Macroscope Celestant-Prime (340) Knight-Incantor (140) - Artefact: Ghyrstrike; Spell - Choking Fumes 10 x Longbeards (110) - Ancestral Weapons & Shields; City Role : Honoured Retinue 10 x Longbeards (110) - Ancestral Weapons & Shields 10 x Irondrakes (150) 10 x Irondrakes (150) 5 x Sisters of the Thorn (130) 5 x Sisters of the Thorn (130) Helstorm Rocket Battery (130) Helstorm Rocket Battery (130) Battalions : Greywater Artillery Company (120) Endless Spells : Emerald Lifeswarm (50) Extra Command Point (50) Irondrakes are the bane of Keepers of Secrets, which seem to be a popular choice in my local meta. Bump those Grudgehammers up to Rend 3 and they have no save. Not only that, but your first turn (assuming they play for the double turn as with most CoS you have a ton of drops!) you hit hard. This list on average delivers about 35 unsaved wounds during its' first turn of combat against an army of a 4+ save. With Slaanesh (again local meta) it is even better since most of their roster have a 5+ save. This army sacrifices units like the Sisters of Thorn as a bit of a "Chaff" unit to keep your irondrakes safe, but the good news is if they don't die, you can easily bring them back with the Emerald Lifeswarm! The Celestant-Prime can be swapped for some more units and a group of fulminators, but in my tournament, I found it better to bring the assassin/shooting powerhouse he is. This army was built with the armies I had and got me pretty far in the tournament I played in.

I'm getting 90% of my painting done on night shift

The Heads arrived and the slow kitbash to make them bigger and looking like Galrauch begins. The Skulls are from PFWorks, cannot reccomend the the Wuality of Pedro Fernandez’s kits enough.

Incorrect, but close. Actually the Aura's specifically are "emanating" from the heroes. A hero with multiple Marks of Chaos (ie. Archaon) can exude only one for the remainder of the Battlefield. So Archaon would get his buff 100% of the time, however, under the text for each of the Auras state there after, each aura looks for Slaves to Darkness <Khorne, Slaanesh, Nurgle, Tzeentch> is wholly within 12" of the hero emanating the Aura, then they get the effect. This is to keep any one hero from exuding multiple auras, not from benefiting from multiple auras. Aura of Chaos: Each Slaves To Darkness Hero in a Slaves to Darkness army has one of the following Aura of Chaos abilities. The Aura of Chaos a Hero has is determined by its Mark of Chaos keyword. Khorne Heroes have the Aura of Khorne. Tzeentch Heroes have the Aura of Tzeentch. Nurgle Heroes have the Aura of Nurgle. Slaanesh Heroes have the Aura of Slaanesh, and Undivided Heroes have the Aura of Chaos Undevided. If you select a unit with more than one Mark of Chaos keyword to be part of your army, you must pick which one will apply to that unit for the duration of the battle. If we look at the Aura of Khorne for example we can infer that the units benefiting from the aura of chaos simply benefit and are not "looking" for the hero. The Aura simply states that any "Slaves to Darkness Khorne" unit "wholly within 12"" gets "x" effect. Since Archaon picks which Aura he exudes and does NOT remove any of the keywords on his warscroll, then he benefits from the effect. Aura of Khorne: You can re roll hit rolls of 1 for attacks made with melee weapons by friendly Slaves to Darkness Khrone units wholly within 12" of this model. In addition, if this model is a general, add 1 to wound rolls for attacks made with melee weapons by friendly Slaves to Darkness Khorne units wholly within 12" of this model. So we can see that logically, if Archaon had a Khorne Slaves to Darkness Hero, a Nurgle Slaves to Darkness Hero, and a Tzeentch Slaves to Darkness Hero near by him (assuming we take him with the Slaanesh Aura, I mean... come on?!) then Archaon would get the base benefit from each of their emanated Aura's of Chaos whilst only emanating one himself (Slaanesh). The text for the auras were written carefully by screen-shotting the book and duplicating it verbatim.

Galrauch, base work on body and legs done, can now move onto arms, tail, head and neck and then start working on laters and scales. Check him out next to Throgg, mu previously largest mini. And poor Johan on the far right.

Hi guys, er... awright boyz, Creeping in from the Order side of the forum with a link to an interview I've just done with my friend Lawrence on the stunning Ironjawz army he recently unveiled at Warhammer Achivements this month, taking home the best army trophy, including his frankly staggering scratch build Rogue Idol: https://doublemisfire.blogspot.com/2019/11/city-spotlight-lawrences-sunz-of-rust.html

I always thought that AoS gods are more close to Dark Souls Gods than OP ones that traditional religions. They walk among living, they can be hurt and put down on their knees, some weapons can kill them too, we know that there are some entities than can drink their power (Morathi), etc...