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For me they certainly always have been but after the wonderful time of the extremely broken Chaos codex, they were extremely underpowered for ages in the next codex. That was the time when I played 40k the most. I didn‘t care, I‘m not into Warhammer for winning my games (doesn‘t hurt tho), I enjoy losing as well, but it was certainly strange to suddenly field a really good army that often competed for the top spot with AoS‘s DoT! 😂 Going back to 40k is hard though now… the AoS rules are simply more fun to me. Still hoping that Teamkill will become better so that I can scratch that itch as well.

I think in an ideal world you could have, subfaction flavour rules, and then pick a battle style army ability, but we know by now that that's probably too much complexity to balance. And also idk if aos has the design space to come up with subfaction traits that would be equally compatible with all the army styles.

What about new endless spells? Didn't Whitefang Jr say something like that?

they aren't gone though? The 11 Cities are now allowed to match up subfaction rules/traits and formations however you want to. Love Greywater for the blackpowder focus but want to set your army in Excelsis? Well, now you have the ability to make your Excelsis force the gunnery school or rifle garrison or however you want to tie it together. I'm just a bit confused at this pushback in all honesty. It makes more sense logistically and lorewise--why WOULDN'T every COS have a detachment of gunnery forces or cavalry or magic?

Slightly off topic but thousand sons seemed to me one of the more interesting indexes in terms of flavour and army rules.

I'm with you. I can't wait to learn more about the game.

Yeah, pretty much everything I’ve seen thus far has looked at least good. I’m EXTREMELY positive on the Magic changes (Partially because I suspect the Boneshaper is getting Shardstorm as a shooting attack and this justifies buying the remaining Endless Spells to add to my collection). This has me optimistic, but you’ll need to check back in once we know the Index for the OBR and IDK.

Indeed. Those little pieces look like we will get a nicely rounded edition.

Same here! I really thought AoS 3 was a downgrade compared to 2nd ed as it just felt like that with some extra rules slapped on and 4 looks to change quite a bit for the better as they really went back to square one and rethought some things. Ultimately I‘d like a simple game with room for some tactical play in there and so far 4th seems to deliver that. Too soon to say for sure, none of us have played 4th but I really like what I see. I don‘t even care if Tzeentch got way weaker in the overall ranking, we‘ve been among the best for ages anyways (almost as long among the best in AoS as Thousand Sons were the absolute worst in 40k before they got their own codex 😂) bit I want simple, good rules cause my group is lazy as heck. AoS 3.0 killed their enthusiasm and I don‘t want more or new friends! 😁

I understand that view, but it depends if the spell lores are good and fun. But to me with CoS as one of my armies it seems that it is only losing stuff, first the 11 free cities are gone and replaced by 4 battle formations. Now it seems that CoS humans and Aelves lose their own spell lore. What's next, removal of artefacts for duardin, Aelves and human? I don't really care about competive play and certainly not about tournament play or extreme balance or the battlescroll point adjustments if it is at the cost of losing options. In the old days GW was to nonchalant about balance, but now they are to focused on balance. It seems that the AOS team is way to concentrated on tournament play. "And no more thinking which of my fungoid shaman that had which spell and cursing that I wished that it was the other way around..." True, but with this line of thinking you can also scrap artefacts as the exact same problem can ocure as you described with the fungoid shaman. 😜

I am really optimistic about the new edition, so far I have almost no objections about the new rules we have seen.

I'm also pretty excited about a lot of the changes, honestly I didn't get the impression that magic was losing loads of flavour from today's article, we've yet to see any full spell lores it looks ok to me so far. The ritual points thing for priests is an interesting way to differentiate them from wizards too.

I feel the same . I’m very hyped by 4th edition

From what I've seen so far I'm now more excited for 4th edition than any previous edition of AoS 😁👍🏻

Yeah, that sounds seriously cool for mage-heavy forces. Wizards will get much more utility… unless all spell lores suck. 😆

Honestly, it seems like you get to pick a Lore of Manifestation and a Spell Lore. Naturally, I’m going to exclusively run the one with Shyish-themed spells with my OBR unless I have to choose between OBR manifestations and those. And I’d probably still choose 4 options over 3 unless those 3 are really good.

You also need to remember that the Wizards get all the spells in the spell-lore, not just one spell. That means that most players have more freedom than before (except for a few armies) when it comes to choose spell. And no more thinking which of my fungoid shaman that had which spell and cursing that I wished that it was the other way around...

It's easier to find criticisms than compliments. I think it all looks good, and prayers could be a fun mini-game.

I am an optimist as well. There's a lot of stuff still to see. Now we are just seeing half of the picture.

I am sorry. I have been defending Bonesplitterz for years and GW just smashed that belief with a chainsword.

Btw: Why am I the only optimistic one here? I hate goody two-shoes and if magic sucks, my army will get hit the hardest! 😂

Isn‘t it too soon to be so negative? We haven‘t seen any lore yet!

This is why im seriously looking to start playing infinity. (and i love xcom)

Lol, you are baffling. 🙂 What we know so far is that 11 armies lost their additional spell lores. We will see how it will look like with the indexes and the first battletomes appear. But I don't see the benefit of limiting the spell lore choice per army instead of per hero or race. Like in CoS Humans and Aelves had their own lore. It's not because I really like TOW, that I stopped playing AoS. My small group is still more AoS focussed. It's what they collected and played the last couple of years. Half them never played Warhammer before. I can't magical expect them to drop AoS, certainly when a new edition is coming with beautiful mini's. Useless foot heroes was a reall problem during AoS. All foot heroes having more or less the same stats and avoiding combat. My Chaos Lord is a coward in AoS. And baffling about casting the same two or three OP spells is laughable. It seems to me you only played/play AoS and nothing else and have no clue how other games play.

Yes it was never used but the army name is always part of the key word (see blade of khorne warscroll ) . In fact here there is only mention of ironjawz