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@Tonhel Maybe some as of yet unseen core rule(s)...

Doesn't something similar to this happen with various Tzaangor units depending on if they are in Slaves, Beasts or Disciples?

My main concern from this preview is the survivability of foot characters. The Slaughterpriest his melee damage output is barely better than the Weirdnob Shaman + the Weirdnob Shaman has a good ranged attack. Both stil die easly from a gentle push from a Kroxigor.

The problem is that as has been pointed out there are presumably people who have bought painted and played exclusively with Big Waagh. Suddenly their army is gone and they're left with two half armies. One possible bright side is that Nagash has different warscrolls for different factions. One way of fixing the balance issue is having an ironjawz version of a scroll and a big waagh version of a scroll which can be pointed differently.

I'm pretty sure there are not 'basic' magic rules, just core rules with no magic, then add the magic module to have any. That was the impression I got from the 'modules' article, though. "So why would I use wizards if I'm not using the magic module" - you wouldn't. "but what about spearhead?" - units will have separate warscrolls for spearhead, presumably wizards in spearhead boxes will get abilities on their spearhead warscrolls emulating their magical abilities - eg extra ranged attacks or the like - without involving rules for spells & such. ....................... Overall I like the look of this, particularly the return of proper spell lores in place of the generic arcane bolt & mystic shield. Especially with my plan to run the Liche's Hand RoR in a Soulblight Gravelords army in order to emulate the old Legion of Sacrament, this should solve the current problem with the Liche's Hand where you're paying for Arkhan, a triple caster, without any spell lore access. ..... Re priests, the main thing I'm not clear on is ritual points on a level 2+ priest. Are ritual points built up separately for each prayer, or cumulatively on the priest? For example, could a level 2 priest chant "unimportant prayer", roll 4 ritual points, then chant "important prayer", roll 5 more ritual points, and then use all 9 ritual points to activate the higher level effect of "important prayer" all in the same Hero phase?

Made it happier than I thought it would to see Bloodbound stay as a keyword. Thought Blades of Khorne would have absorbed it(will ascended Khul make Bloodbound great again?! 😄) Also the Ironjawz shaman warscroll was the biggest highlight(besides seeing Endless Spells mostly remaining the same besides becoming a lore). Green vomit projectile got a great laugh out of me and very nice to see “Ironjawz” untouched. I’m definitely in camp separate battletomes since it means expanding the armies and balancing them better as they’re focused on separately(instead of “cripple Krule melee because they have Ironjawz”). Though we need to see how it pans out, but if Big Waaagh is gone at least there’s always the possibility of ally options(auxiliaries?) to mix them back for people using that force.

I like that the whole spell lore is available to my wizards with manifestations on top, and while I don't have any priests they sound pretty thematic. Hoping the lack of Orruk Warclans keyword means Ironjawz and Kruleboyz get their own dedicated battletomes in 4th edition and it's not just an index thing. I don't think they did a good job with balancing them and Big Waaagh at the same time.

Got it. 👍 I'll take the boning if it means more support for each individual clan.

I actually don't think Big Waagh is necessarily gone. It may just say 'you can take units with the Ironjawz or Kruleboyz keywords'. Hell, it *might* be a 'subfaction' you can take for either army.

If you didn't have a fully built out Ironjawz or KB army, you're kinda boned with this move, and Warclans was a soup for two editions, so that's a lot of people playing orcs over the last six years.

Looks good. It's a shame that the chosen lore has to be per army and not per wizard like in TOW. Also, looking at that Slaughterpriest, I hoped for a bit more survivability for characters on foot, but it doesn't look promising. A Kroxigor only has to look at the Slaughterpriest and the Slaughterpriest is dead. It seems that AoS 4th edition will be very, very lethal. Nothing will last long in melee combat. Edit: The damage output of the Slaughterpriest is not really impressive compared to the Weirnob Shaman 😞 Sigh, He is a warrior priest of Khorne...

I mentioned this in the other thread, but the preview makes no mention of the magic "module." So is this the "module" you use with PtG and Matched Play and the Core rules have no magic system? Or is this the core system and there is some other "module" we'll be using for PtG and Matched Play?

Endless spells for free (points) just seems like " you will be at a competitive disadvantage unless you spend money on this specific thing" regardless of how you want to build up your army. Pay to win?

No longer orruk warclan keyword . Sounds like separated BT

I have 6k Bonesplitterz points too.

?

As someone with a motley assortment of Bonesplitters, Ironjawz, and KB, I feel your pain. The largest part of my orc collection was outright removed from the game, and I can't even cobble my leftovers into an army anymore.

Really liking the new shaman scroll. Can get them to a power lvl 2 pretty easily. 6 armor save from 5 hurts but maybe if the wrekkaz and ragerz don't get consolidated wrekkaz may become a shaman bodyguard type unit instead. 🤔 And if the orruk clans are separated these weirdos become our only shooting. 🤘🤪🤘

Maybe it’s for the good ! We will know very soon . Or maybe we will have one BT for IJ, one BT for KB and one BT for orruk warclan ?

Worst day of my life.

I do not like armies having to pick a single spell lore, that's a huge step down in theming and flavor. LRL are built around having a generic lore of light vs all the unique elemental lores, and many other armies have similar divides. Orcs for example, you'll have to basically choose between Ironjawz and KB magic for your entire army instead of having dedicated support pieces.

Magic rules are up. Casting and unbinding are basically the same as 3.0. Prayers work a little differently. Instead of single chant roll, the model can do one per turn and accumulate chant points. Some prayers have bonus powers if chanted with a greater number of points. It's an interesting idea. And I like that a priest will have something to do in that first turn. Most of their prayers might be out of range, but at least they can still warm up the chanting engines. One disappointment, though. I was hoping we'd learn how spells function as a "module." I had assumed (perhaps wrongly) that there would be a basic spellcasting system for the core rules and then a "module" that would make changes to it. Almost like the way Andtor changes spellcasting by adding primal dice and whatnot. But the article didn't make any such distinction. So either this is the "module" and the core rules have no magic system. Or this is the core system and the "module" we'll be using for matched play and PtG is something else entirely. In which case, I'd want to know about that. I liked what I saw today, but I'm disappointed that the most pertinent question (to me) wasn't answered.

Would make sense given how we have been moving away from cross faction models over the course of 3rd.

Also, one thing could be in the BT and another thing in the indexes. Would be weird, but not crazy.

I imagine they'll be getting their own indexes. Balancing big waagh against the other factions was a bit a nightmare in third so maybe it's gone or changed!??!