Asketen Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 Greetings! I am fairly new to warhammer and looking for advice concerning a mixed aelf list as well as the lore behind it. Some background; I've been interested in WHFB since I was 12 (I am now 23) but didn't get into the hobby because of financial issues and a mother stating "This hobby is not for girls". I got myself some goblins anyway and really enjoyed painting. Years later I purchased the Island of Blood set, painted some of them and read the whole rulebook which I thoroughly enjoyed, I love big rulebooks! I never got to play the game because of lack of friends but now (after 11 ****** years!) I've finally found someone as excited as I am about delving deeper into all aspects of the hobby. My new friend have never played the game for similar reasons as me, but he's got a ****** ton of miniatures and books so he gave me some of his wood elves. I've had trouble deciding which army to go for but with AoS I get a chance to mix some of them. I've always liked the elves and since I have IoB and was gifted some wood elves I was thinking I could put them together and potentially adding dark elves as well. This is the Order-elf stuff I have atm: Island of Blood elves 12 Wood Elf Dryads 8 Wood Elf Glade Riders. Apart from that I have the Storm of Sigmar box, just to freshen up my painting skills and get into the new rules. I also got the General's Handbook and once I get paid I'll buy the Grand Alliance: Order book and probably the Sylvaneth book as well. I plan to get some more elves but not sure which ones to get. I would like to start of with a 1000pts list, or maybe a 1500pts list to learn the game. I am mainly interested in playing with points and later moving on to larger point games. Another thing is that I want to get a hold of some material to get into the lore of all the elves so that I can combine them in a way that makes sense to their history. I'd prefer physical books rather than reading long texts online. Getting to know their lore will also help to plan the colour scheme for the miniatures. I would greatly appreciate if anyone could suggest me some basic reading material for the dark, high and wood elves and give some examples of which units works together. I'd love to use a ton of magic and sneaky ranged units, but some sort of "tank" unit would be nice, don't wanna be too squishy. Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquietfrog Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 Use your IoB elves as the dawnspire battalion. This will bring them up to around 860 pts. All of them will be swifthawk agents, which will benefit a lot from a skywarden. To your wood elves, I suggest adding glade guard as they are pretty good archers, and kurnoth hunters for heavy duty shooting and staying power. Lore wise, I think there is a bit from the spire of dawn box, which is a rebox of the IoB set. The treemen side of the wood elves got expanded a lot as an independent army as sylvaneth which has its own battletome. Most AoS novels focus more on the efforts of the stormcast, but I read comments that the accompanying novel to the shadows over hammerhal has more on the other races of order. I think it was city of secrets. There's a number of threads in here that discuss a lot of the lore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayple Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 When you say book recommendations, do you mean/prefer old warhammer stuff, or purely Age of Sigmar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asketen Posted May 13, 2017 Author Share Posted May 13, 2017 6 hours ago, aquietfrog said: Use your IoB elves as the dawnspire battalion. This will bring them up to around 860 pts. All of them will be swifthawk agents, which will benefit a lot from a skywarden. To your wood elves, I suggest adding glade guard as they are pretty good archers, and kurnoth hunters for heavy duty shooting and staying power. Lore wise, I think there is a bit from the spire of dawn box, which is a rebox of the IoB set. The treemen side of the wood elves got expanded a lot as an independent army as sylvaneth which has its own battletome. Most AoS novels focus more on the efforts of the stormcast, but I read comments that the accompanying novel to the shadows over hammerhal has more on the other races of order. I think it was city of secrets. There's a number of threads in here that discuss a lot of the lore. Thanks for your input. If I were to use Kurnoth hunters what weapons should they be equipped with? Do I choose one or do they have access to all three? What do you think of this?: Spoiler Leaders High Warden (220) - General - Trait: Inspiring - Artefact: Quicksilver Potion Archmage (120) - Artefact: Talisman of Blinding Light Battleline 5 x Reavers (160) 10 x Spireguard (120) - Swifthawk Agents Battleline 10 x Swordmasters (200) - Eldritch Council Battleline 10 x Dryads (120) 10 x Glade Guard (120) 8 x Glade Riders (200) Units 3 x Kurnoth Hunters (180) - Scythes/Greatsbows/Greatswords??? Battalions Guardians of the Dawnspire (40) Total: 1480/2000 12 minutes ago, Mayple said: When you say book recommendations, do you mean/prefer old warhammer stuff, or purely Age of Sigmar? I'd prefer the old stuff but everything is of interest. As far as I know there isn't much elf fluff in the new AoS novels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swarmofseals Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 9 hours ago, Asketen said: Greetings! I am fairly new to warhammer and looking for advice concerning a mixed aelf list as well as the lore behind it. Some background; I've been interested in WHFB since I was 12 (I am now 23) but didn't get into the hobby because of financial issues and a mother stating "This hobby is not for girls". I got myself some goblins anyway and really enjoyed painting. Years later I purchased the Island of Blood set, painted some of them and read the whole rulebook which I thoroughly enjoyed, I love big rulebooks! I never got to play the game because of lack of friends but now (after 11 ****** years!) I've finally found someone as excited as I am about delving deeper into all aspects of the hobby. My new friend have never played the game for similar reasons as me, but he's got a ****** ton of miniatures and books so he gave me some of his wood elves. I've had trouble deciding which army to go for but with AoS I get a chance to mix some of them. I've always liked the elves and since I have IoB and was gifted some wood elves I was thinking I could put them together and potentially adding dark elves as well. This is the Order-elf stuff I have atm: Island of Blood elves 12 Wood Elf Dryads 8 Wood Elf Glade Riders. Apart from that I have the Storm of Sigmar box, just to freshen up my painting skills and get into the new rules. I also got the General's Handbook and once I get paid I'll buy the Grand Alliance: Order book and probably the Sylvaneth book as well. I plan to get some more elves but not sure which ones to get. I would like to start of with a 1000pts list, or maybe a 1500pts list to learn the game. I am mainly interested in playing with points and later moving on to larger point games. Another thing is that I want to get a hold of some material to get into the lore of all the elves so that I can combine them in a way that makes sense to their history. I'd prefer physical books rather than reading long texts online. Getting to know their lore will also help to plan the colour scheme for the miniatures. I would greatly appreciate if anyone could suggest me some basic reading material for the dark, high and wood elves and give some examples of which units works together. I'd love to use a ton of magic and sneaky ranged units, but some sort of "tank" unit would be nice, don't wanna be too squishy. Thanks in advance! First of all, welcome to the cult! As far as lore goes, old army books are always a good place to start. You can find them pretty inexpensively now, for the most part. Getting multiple books from different editions of the same faction will give you a sense of how GW developed and changed the flavor of each faction over time. For example, I'm pretty sure the Wood Elves had periods where their lore was a lot darker and periods where it was less dark. To give a very broad overview (and you're probably aware of this already), the High Elves and Dark Elves fought each-other for most of the history of WHFB while the Wood Elves were mostly isolationists. They might have had occasional contact with the other elf factions (particularly the High Elves) but it wasn't frequent. Of course, when the End Times happened all the old history kinda went out the window and the Elf factions all ended up on the same side. I really don't know the AOS lore all that well, but one of the main themes that appears to be present is that Slaanesh went and ate a very large number of elf souls, and there is some talk of the Exiles and Highborn teaming up to go rescue them. I'm sure there is more on this written in various AoS sourcebooks but sadly I couldn't point you in the direction of which one. I'm guessing there are some decent wikis out there that have summaries of the books, and that might give you a sense of which ones are worth your investment. Still, a combination of Dark and High Elves teaming up to take on Slaanesh would make for a reasonable army theme. Having some Wanderers tag along could work too. I'm sure you can imagine a justification for it! As far as the actual list building part goes, I think it might be better to start with some very broad advice. How much are you motivated by the aesthetics of the army vs. the theme vs. power on the tabletop? Getting an idea of those ratios will help us give you much better advice. The one thing that I'd suggest right off the bat though is to mostly ignore the Sylvaneth. They've really been branched off from the Wood Elves and are really dependent on their allegiance abilities to function on the tabletop. The one exception to this are Kurnoth Hunters, who are just solidly great no matter how you equip them. If you must have some Sylvaneth in your army, I'd suggest Kurnoths. I'd be happy to help out more but would need to know what your priorities are to give good advice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquietfrog Posted May 14, 2017 Share Posted May 14, 2017 @AsketenYour initial list looks good enough to start with. Most people like kurnoth bows for the ability to pick off key enemy heroes from long range. However you will benefit from any loadout as you also need a hard hitting melee unit. The swords for reliable damage output, the scythes against heavily armored foes. Also take a look at what your friend will be bringing and try to balance with each other's army. You wouldnt want heavily lopsided battles for your first game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asketen Posted May 14, 2017 Author Share Posted May 14, 2017 10 hours ago, swarmofseals said: I really don't know the AOS lore all that well, but one of the main themes that appears to be present is that Slaanesh went and ate a very large number of elf souls, and there is some talk of the Exiles and Highborn teaming up to go rescue them. I'm sure there is more on this written in various AoS sourcebooks but sadly I couldn't point you in the direction of which one. I'm guessing there are some decent wikis out there that have summaries of the books, and that might give you a sense of which ones are worth your investment. Still, a combination of Dark and High Elves teaming up to take on Slaanesh would make for a reasonable army theme. Having some Wanderers tag along could work too. I'm sure you can imagine a justification for it! It seems to me that it would be easier lore-wise to combine the Dark and High elves than with the Wood elves. 10 hours ago, swarmofseals said: As far as the actual list building part goes, I think it might be better to start with some very broad advice. How much are you motivated by the aesthetics of the army vs. the theme vs. power on the tabletop? Getting an idea of those ratios will help us give you much better advice. The one thing that I'd suggest right off the bat though is to mostly ignore the Sylvaneth. They've really been branched off from the Wood Elves and are really dependent on their allegiance abilities to function on the tabletop. The one exception to this are Kurnoth Hunters, who are just solidly great no matter how you equip them. If you must have some Sylvaneth in your army, I'd suggest Kurnoths. I'd be happy to help out more but would need to know what your priorities are to give good advice! What I like about the Dark elves is simply the darkness, with the High elves it's mostly the playstyle and not so much the aesthetic/overall theme. I haven't done all that much research but if I understood it correct the High elves use a lot of magic and strategic manoeuvring than most other armies? That's the kind of playstyle I'm looking for, not very interested in huge tanky units. Even though I guess I'd need a small amount anyway to balance it out. 10 hours ago, swarmofseals said: As far as lore goes, old army books are always a good place to start. You can find them pretty inexpensively now, for the most part. Getting multiple books from different editions of the same faction will give you a sense of how GW developed and changed the flavor of each faction over time. For example, I'm pretty sure the Wood Elves had periods where their lore was a lot darker and periods where it was less dark. Wood elves appeal to me because of their look and also the lore and I'd imagine they have a similar playstyle as the other elves? Close to nature and secluded (just like me :P) but I'm missing the dark/destructive aspect of them which is why I wanted to get the Dark elves in. I think I have some heavy research ahead of me. I might not need to include Dark elves, but then there's the dilemma of merging High elves with wood elves... Basically, High elves because I already have them + appealing playstyle Dark Elves - looks cool, adds darkness to an army I find "too bright/orderly/perfect" Wood Elves - looks cool, I love nature, I believe in reincarnation/circle of life & death (life feeds death - death feeds life/rebuilding - destroying, the balance of good/evil - destruction/creation) I hope that made sense, not my native language so don't know how to explain it further or in more detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asketen Posted May 14, 2017 Author Share Posted May 14, 2017 I basically want a list that works well both lore-wise and "power-wise", it doesn't have to be super competitive but not bad either. I'm not sure what my friend will be playing, probably nurgle or skaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayple Posted May 14, 2017 Share Posted May 14, 2017 Well, I can wholeheartedly say that Dark elves is a faction worth getting into (although I'm a dark elf fanboooi, so heavy bias) - their lore is pretty interesting, and gives you decent insight into the high elves as well. They're weak as a game faction right now though, due to lack of synergies and splintered sub-factions, but word on the street says that there are new (dark) aelves on the way so good times are ahead. Edit: As for playstyles, they're all a bit mixed (except for Wanderers) since both High Elves and Dark Elves got split up into several sub-factions. I've noted some recurring traits across their respective sub-factions though. High Elves (Mobility playstyle) - Fast - Shoot-and-run - Decent magic - A lot of flying units - The go-to faction for dragon supremacy. - Really squishy. - Can be tanky(ish) if required (Phoenix Guard) Dark elves (Ambush playstyle) - Decently fast - Has great assassins (Tenebrael Shard) - Poor shooting, which they try to compensate with by shooting -more- - Squishy units that will wreak havoc if they make it to combat. - Good magic (which they can sacrifice their own people for to make their spells easier to cast) - Decent monsters, and lore motivation to use any monster in the game under their banner, as they have a habit of breaking even the fiercest beasts to their will. (Purely for open/narrative play if you go outside of grand alliance of course, but it fits their lore perfectly) Wanderers: - I'm lacking enough insight into these to be able to narrow it down to their 'unique' traits, but I think they're a more varied force than the two above, just barely. Also squishy. Note that none of the factions are limited to what I mentioned above. It is simply things that stand out to me. Overall, all elven factions live and die by their tactical maneuvering, since their squishy nature punishes them heavily for any mistake. I get the feeling that's what you're after though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncas Posted May 14, 2017 Share Posted May 14, 2017 Hey, I run a 1500 put mixed elf list that I have fun with and has some decent synergy via casting. Heros: Annointed on frostheart phoenix(general) Dreadlord on Black Dragon Sorceress Loremaster Battleline: 10x bleakswords 20x dreadspears Artillery: Reaper Bolt thrower Reaper Bolt thrower Other: 5x Sisters of the Thorn Basically how it works is I try to keep all the casters near the Phoenix to get its save up; if you get shield of thorns on it, it can do a lot of mortal wounds. It acts as my tank if I get the save up; i try and tie up the hardest hitting stuff with it. It's minus 1 to wound AoE is great, and in conjunction with the sorceress' word of pain, can really hamper enemy attacks. By tying up the tough stuff, it let's my dreadlord go on adventures to pick off the squishier stuff. I use the loremaster hand of glory on one of the bolt throwers initially; this allows you to really crank out a lot of damage at range. It is a very beatable list( kill the casters and it falls apart), but if things are clicking you can get some good results and it is very fun to play. In terms of lore, I just got into Warhammer about 1.5 years ago, so I haven't read everything. However, of what I have read, my favorite is the Malus Darkblade novels: you get a really in depth look at all of the different dark elf factions of the old world over the course of one dark elf anti-hero's bloody quest to exorcise his demon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquietfrog Posted May 14, 2017 Share Posted May 14, 2017 Also, the magic superiority of elves was something from 8th ed WHFB. Magic has been toned way way down in Aos so don't really expect magic to win your battles. They have some decent magic, but not as versatile as they used to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asketen Posted May 14, 2017 Author Share Posted May 14, 2017 Wow, thanks guys! Some valuable info here. Thanks for the list Uncas. I get money on Friday so I'm going to make a couple of purchases, mostly books to get into the lore. I'll theorycraft som lists and update here, so that you pros can give me some further advice. It's ridiculous how excited I am! The perks of being an adult, I can do whatever I want. Spending all my money on beer and minis. If anyone else have some mixed elf lists they're playing with, feel free to dump it here and if ya want, add some comments on the strategy you're using. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robzilla Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 Welcome to the game! Can't imagine how excited you must be after such a wait! My wife plays elves of all varieties, so for what it's worth, here's my take on things: Go nuts. I know that may not be the most helpful, off the cuff, but stick with me. I'm a huge stickler for lore, and going against the grain literally chips away a bit of my soul, but AOS is wonderful in a lot of ways, I mean chiefly, it's open endedness. The realms are all infinite, and the background is quite loose, so as long as you're sticking to the spirit of the faction, why not create an awesome backstory for whatever combination you want? Off the cuff: floating sky islands that exist both in the realm of life and also the shadow realm, floating between the two, pulled back and forth by unknown force. This series of islands are home to a large number of wanderers and tree sprits, who in turn are ever shifting in nature, capricious and fae due to the changing nature of their home between the dark and the light. The swift hawk agents use the islands as a point of rest, between journeys and have a colony there, as do a sizeable force of dark elf raiders treating them as a bastion for ease of access to other realms and realm gates. Just an idea. As to how the factions play... I'm more used to high elves and wanderers, than dark but here goes: High elves can do a couple of different playstyles. I am fond of the small, tough elite army in the form of the Phoenix Temple using phoenixes for hitting power. Swift hawk agents, particularly using the spire of dawn battalion is very fun. Fragile army, reliant on synergy and movement shenanigans. Wanderers are again a mixed bag. To get the most out of them, use synergies, and pick your battles carefully. Some units are amazing outright (sisters of the watch) and others need buffs but are subsequently brilliant (eternal guard). Very fun and varied army to play! For my two pence about what to Pick up next, personally I would round out your IOB elves by picking up another set*, having ten reavers, twenty sword masters, and twenty spireguard is a fantastic base to an army, and gives you flexibility in mixing in and out units when you expand into wanderers or sylvaneth more. In any case keep us posted and enjoy your first forrey into the hobby! *massively biased, and I always advise new players to pick up a couple of sets of this. I have six... ahem... I'm not an addict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maximum_pants Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 got in a bit late, but i thought i'd chime in with a couple suggestions of mixed elf units with their roles. I've played mainly phoenix temple for the past 6 months and played wanderers at the start of AOS, my main opponent is a darkling covens/ order serpentis player. Offensive: ----------------------- executioners, probably the highest dmg output elf unit in the game, any way to buff their to hit roles makes them even better any of the dragons, dark, star, forest, they're all great, again anyway of buffing them makes them event better All rounders: ---------------------- black guard/ sword masters / wildwood rangers - all good choices, you won't be dissappointed with their performance, reasonable dmg/ reasonable defence frost heart phoenixes are also good all rounders, they won't take out a treelord or a stonehorn, but they sure can mince through some battleline. Defensive: -------------------------- Phoenix Guard - probably the best defensive unit in the elf list, 10 can sit on an objective for 4 combats and its not hard to get them immune to battleshock if they're near a phoenix temple hero, again they can be even better with some buffs. spear elves- all 3 factions spear elves are good in large numbers, with 10 they will hold an objective for a turn, but in 40s they can pump out alot of dmg and live forever. Shooting: ----------------------------- all of the shooting is good but most of the units require larger unit sizes to get buffs. my favorites are the battle line ones, glade guard and ellyrian reavers. Cavalry: -------------------------- cavalry in Aos is usually not that great, it has a large base size so you can only ever fight in 1 rank, its expensive points wise so you can't field that many. Anyone who plays order draconis or order serpentis feel free to prove me wrong. exceptions being reavers and sisters who not fighty cavalry. Best Buff pieces: -------------------------- lore master - give those dragons rerolls to hit/wound sisters of the thorn - rerolling armor saves? and give them mortal would back on a 6+? those phoenix guard just got even better. (compendium) shadow dancer - give a dragon or unit wildwood rangers flying and double move for a sneaky assassinate alot of people also really like the dark elf sorceress for her -1 to hit debuff, its pretty good if you find yourself fighting blood letters/ skyfires. retributors, ripperdactyls (guys that have a bonus when they roll a 6 to hit) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidings Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Welcome! I'm an old Wood Elves player (15 years omg) and thought I'd chime in with a huge wall of text. Lore/flavor - You meantioned Wood Elves didn't seem very dark. Pre-AoS, they were! My favorite thing about the Wood Elves is how mysterious and hostile they are. They're the silent, fleeting shadows that stalk you through the woods. As the wind rustles through the leaves, you hear hints of ethereal melodies sung by the Wood Elves. They don't care for the world outside the borders of Athel Loren, but they are incredibly hostile without warning to anyone who enters. A Waywatcher feeling merciful towards someone (like a lost child) would silently trick them into leading themselves out of the forest before the Dryads could notice them. There are other hints of darker Wood Elf customs as well, their old Codex's actually have a lot of cool bits to read! Now that we are in the Age of Sigmar, Wood Elves don't have their home forest anymore and are 'Wanderers'. In terms of fluff and flavor, they have none. I pretend the Old World never ended lol. Gameplay - Wood Elves are incredibly fragile and don't hit particularly hard, until used properly. They have some great synergies though and really need careful positioning/gameplay to succeed. There are sort of two main directions you can go when building their army, mobile or defensive. Wood Elves used to be super mobile, and to some degree they still are with units like Wild Riders, Wardancers, Warhawks, eagles, Glade Riders, etc. However Chaos and Destruction lists frequently charge across the entire table on their first turn and get into combat. I find that focusing on a more defensive army rather than mobile is better. Eternal Guard are almost mandatory as they go from being very average to incredible when they are in cover and using their stance, Fortress of Boughs. By positioning them properly, they can contest objectives and basically never die. Arranging models correctly is important as you can use them to screen archers and characters, keeping them safe. The Nomad Prince and the Waywatcher are my go-to heroes. Nomad Prince as General is great, because he brings some much needed offensive melee power to the table and his command ability is amazing, if you position him correctly. The Waywatcher Lord is incredible as a source of ranged damage, but more so when he doesn't move. So again... positioning is key. I like to have one unit of 20+ Glade Guard for their once-per-game rending -3 arrows. Outside of that, they are fairly meh. Smaller units of Waywatchers mixed in the back half of your Eternal Guard mean that they are safe and reliably do a lot of damage. Or, if you can afford to spend more points, Sisters of the Watch are even better in this configuration. Wardancers are cheap and fast, making them great as a speedbump. They can hit hard, but they will die fast so the key is charging them into an enemy that is already piled into combat. Do this correctly and the enemy won't get many attacks on the dancers. Sisters of the Thorn are flat out better than Wild Riders, but currently a bit expensive for what they do. Still, they go great with Eternal Guard protecting Sisters of the Watch or Waywatchers. If you want to do a mixed army, Treekin, Dryads, Kurnoth Hunters with Scythes, Treelords, etc all make fantastic melee units to supplement Wood Elve's ranged power. TLDR - Wood Elves are darker and less "good" than people imagine and they can be powerful if played defensively and carefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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