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Sylvaneth how to defeat...


Torquemada

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Hi all, I usually play a mixed destruction armylist versus Sylvaneth. Yesterday evening another defeat :(

They always seem too fast and too strong... too mortal wounds and a lot of wizards. How do you play this kind of match? Please help me!!

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Thundertusks are a good option here. Two Snowballs will nuke a Treelord Ancient or a Spirit of Durthu. A Stonehorn can carve through the super armour of their Treelord Ancient or Kurnoth Hunters (but be careful with Wyldwoods blocking their movement).

If you want a more exotic options, then a Dread Maw, Troll Hag or Magma Dragon are good options.

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1 hour ago, Torquemada said:

Hi all, I usually play a mixed destruction armylist versus Sylvaneth. Yesterday evening another defeat :(

They always seem too fast and too strong... too mortal wounds and a lot of wizards. How do you play this kind of match? Please help me!!

What sort of lists are you running. If you pop the list up it might make for better feedback with what you have and maybe what to add in.

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Some ability to snipe out the Heroes makes the game a lot easier, that can be from Arrowboys, Thundertusks, Warmachines, and so on. Otherwise they're likely to hide behind a screen of Kurnoth and Dryads who will hold you up while they make more Forests, and the Forests start punching you.

If you can get through the Wizards they don't do much in the way of Mortal Wounds and you'll usually just have to get through the Kurnoth, who are strong but will miss their support. Try to pick fights away from the Forests if possible, again shooting really helps with this since they have to come to you. It also helps to fight away from the Objectives as a Wyldwood on an Objective is a bad situation to be in at times.

Knowing your list would indeed help with more specific recommendations.

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Thank you everyone!

My last match was at 1500pts and I ran one megaboss and two thundertusks as Heroes, two units of bonesplitters and one of ogors for the battlelines, and two units of ironjawz to complete the armylist.

I would like to build a better list to play at 1500/2000pts.

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The Thundertusks should be able to put a hurt on him, and stay alive since they have a good range and you can screen for them with your other units. If they're Huskards they can also heal up which is even better! Your Battleline will go down pretty fast with the exception of the Ogors but the Megaboss can hold his own and beat up Dryads or small Kurnoth Hunter units, provided they aren't in Cover. Giving him Battle Brew is always a good idea.

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@Gauche's advice is solid. In terms of your list, I'd suggest going heavier in either Bonesplitters or Ironjawz and getting one of their Battalion warscrolls, e.g. an Ironfist or a Kunnin' Rukk which are considered the strongest in either faction. That would make your force more cohesive and significantly stronger.

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You dont reach em with D6 destruction, 8" movement and 18" ranged attack? Concentrare on the treelords with the tusks. If you got a stonehorn,  shield him and try to go for first turn charge. That would keep em busy will your tusks nuke and the rest advances. 

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One thing I did that won me a game vs these splintery tools, is occupy as much space as possible to limit where they can throw up new woods.

A perfectly positioned Maw-Krusha made a whole centre-third of the board useless whilst a combo of infantry units ran forward in strategic shapes to make the central portion of the board difficult for my opponent to spread into. 

Be aware of how many woods they have in their warchest, and have a good idea of how much room they occupy on the table 

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Yeah locking up the woods is great if you have the bodies. On tables with the appropriate terrain Sylvaneth has a hard time getting more than 2 Wyldwoods down, people need to play with more terrain in AoS! Then if they don't deploy against you and make you go first, rush the Wyldwoods. Destruction usually has a lot of bodies, which you need since they are VERY easy to deploy in the woods. 3", for one model is all I believe they need. Hard to cover that up but it can be done.

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Another thing that can be done when the woods are planted is to block the Sylvaneth player from teleporting to them. When teleporting he needs to set up 9" away from your models, leaving a cheap character or battleline unit in a Wyldwood can completely lock down the mobility of the Sylvaneth army.

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So, question for the thread: Would it ever be worth it to take the 'Nothing Left Standing' trait, as a hard counter to Sylvaneth? Useable after they get their woods out, and it takes away a lot of their mortal wound generation, and teleport ability. Cons is that it's only useable in the Hero phase, so you either set up for it with Destruction move, then activate it, or hope for the double turn.

It does seem to be only useful for a situation where terrain is being generated, or cannot be contested, so Sylvaneth Wyldwoods. In a tournament setting, it seems that our normal options of Bellowing Tyrant or Ravager wins out, due to needing more flexibility.

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Mine is moonclan with a fanatic. The chance yo dictate the terms and make a play in your opponents charge phase is imensely strong. When you position your moonclan units you cold do so with offensive thinking one turn ahead. Nothing more fun then the times your opponent made a mistake and to late realises it and you look up 2-3 units and deny em their charge with a lone fanatic worth 30p. 

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8 hours ago, Tuluth said:

Would it ever be worth it to take the 'Nothing Left Standing' trait, as a hard counter to Sylvaneth? Useable after they get their woods out, and it takes away a lot of their mortal wound generation, and teleport ability. Cons is that it's only useable in the Hero phase, so you either set up for it with Destruction move, then activate it, or hope for the double turn.

Note that 'Nothing Left Standing' removes scenery rules, not keywords. Spells don't activate Wyldwoods any more and you can run and charge in them, but teleporting still works, as well as any ability on a warscroll that checks for the wyldwood keyword. 

One of my regular opponents plays Ironjaws, and will take that trait every single time. It's annoying, but not gamebreaking. So far, the loss of cover has hurt me more than losing abilities, but I'm playing my Gnarlroot list against Ironjaws for the first time later today, so I may re-evaluate that position.

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@Tuluth - I actually don't think "Nothing Left Standing" is worth it against Sylvaneth, which is a bit of a shame as it is very cool and thematic. Bellowing Tyrant (to mitigate Treelord stomps) and Ravager (to get stuck in quicker) are still more useful I believe. Also for the most part you will unlikely to be picking and choosing each game.

As to @Torquemada's OP, I actually have a really favourable win/loss record vs Sylvaneth with pure Ironjawz in a tournament setting. What I have found is that the Maw-krusha (with Talisman) is absolutely vital in the match up with it's mortal wounds and Rend 2. Also once you're stuck in, it's ranged attack is not to be underestimated when it comes to picking off the Branchwych at the back. Whilst at times it's big base size will be a hindrance, you can also use it to your advantage to screen off areas where your opponent may want to drop woods. Don't be afraid to ask to size up available spaces for wood drops.

The double turn is massive in this match up as it allows you to batter the Kurnoth/Treelords before they can heal up etc. Whilst the great saves and ability to ignore Rend 1 is troublesome, big units of Brutes will still be able to make a dent (and don't forget that Rend 2 on the Brute Smasha). The Kurnoth will always make more saves than you expect (don't underestimate those rerolls, even on 5's), but the Brutes get through them.

For me personally, the problem match ups have been when the opponent has 9-12 Greatbow Hunters and they get the T2 double....as that is a dead Cabbage!!

But yeh, it's not as against the Ironjawz player as people might have you think. Some of my most emphatic wins have been against Sylvaneth....conversely, the couple of losses I have had have been pretty brutal the other way haha!

If you're coming out it from a mixed Destruction viewpoint, I would think Thundertusks are an absolute must. The able to take off Treelords with such ease is massive.

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[mention=3281]Tuluth[/mention] - I actually don't think "Nothing Left Standing" is worth it against Sylvaneth, which is a bit of a shame as it is very cool and thematic. Bellowing Tyrant (to mitigate Treelord stomps) and Ravager (to get stuck in quicker) are still more useful I believe. Also for the most part you will unlikely to be picking and choosing each game.
As to [mention=6543]Torquemada[/mention]'s OP, I actually have a really favourable win/loss record vs Sylvaneth with pure Ironjawz in a tournament setting. What I have found is that the Maw-krusha (with Talisman) is absolutely vital in the match up with it's mortal wounds and Rend 2. Also once you're stuck in, it's ranged attack is not to be underestimated when it comes to picking off the Branchwych at the back. Whilst at times it's big base size will be a hindrance, you can also use it to your advantage to screen off areas where your opponent may want to drop woods. Don't be afraid to ask to size up available spaces for wood drops.
The double turn is massive in this match up as it allows you to batter the Kurnoth/Treelords before they can heal up etc. Whilst the great saves and ability to ignore Rend 1 is troublesome, big units of Brutes will still be able to make a dent (and don't forget that Rend 2 on the Brute Smasha). The Kurnoth will always make more saves than you expect (don't underestimate those rerolls, even on 5's), but the Brutes get through them.
For me personally, the problem match ups have been when the opponent has 9-12 Greatbow Hunters and they get the T2 double....as that is a dead Cabbage!!
But yeh, it's not as against the Ironjawz player as people might have you think. Some of my most emphatic wins have been against Sylvaneth....conversely, the couple of losses I have had have been pretty brutal the other way haha!
If you're coming out it from a mixed Destruction viewpoint, I would think Thundertusks are an absolute must. The able to take off Treelords with such ease is massive.

Coming at it from the Sylvaneth perspective chris has it spot on.

Unfortunately for IJ the best way to deal with Kurnoth Hunters is shooting (especially when it has any Rend on it) as they only get the rerolls in the combat phase.
So many people overlook that caveat, and don't bother shooting at the Kurnoth.

More generally vs Sylvaneth, Rend -2 or better, mortal wounds and ways to reliably hit through -1/-2 to hit are a must.




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Here is my experience in dealing with Sylvaneth (pulled from the 'Competitive' Ironjawz thread):

On 5/4/2017 at 0:11 PM, BunkhouseBuster said:

I played at my local GW when they were holding a tournament of sorts (no prizes, but all the tables were reserved for Age of Sigmar that day).  1000 points, Matched Play rules in effect.  And since there are only 3 tables in the store, they were divided in half for the games (so 36"x48", confined battles).  I had a Megaboss, Weirdnob, 3 Brute Squads, and a Gore-grunta squad all in an Iron Fist.

Game 1 - Barely lost against Nurgle Rotbringers army (Glotkin went down pretty quick, he had two models left at the end).  His abilities to heal back wounds won him the game.

Game 2 - Won against a Skaven player.  The player was brand new to the game, and had to leave early and forfeited.  I was trying to make some mistakes with my guys and not play as efficiently as I could, and I was still beating him on objectives.

Game 3 - Up against an undeafeated Sylvaneth army, utilizing a Treelord Ancient with the 1+ Re-rollable Armor Save, 2 units of Kurnoth with bows, a Branchwych, and two units of Dryads in reserve.  I let him take first turn, and he puts up his trees in the middle of the board.  I rolled very well on moving up the board with Iron Fist and Destruction Allegiance, got off the Megaboss's Waaagh! with a 6 for two extra attacks, and managed to charge two of my Brute Squads into the Treelord, and engage the Kurnoth with my other squads.  My Brutes weren't able to do much of anything against that re-rollable armor save on the Treelord, but the Brute Bosses tore through it with the Claws and Smashas; I'm pretty sure I rolled max damage on those d3s each time.  The Dryads were in reserve to be summoned by the Treelord (somehow), and his army crumbled.  He conceded after turn 2.

Apparently, the guy who played this Sylvaneth army is nearly undefeated with this list at the local GW.  So when everyone saw that I had defeated him, they all gave me a loud Waaagh! to celebrate.  That was the best part of the day :)

So I am hooked on my Ironjawz and expanding into other Orruks now.  Waaagh!

Moral of the story, Megaboss got 2 extra attacks for the Brute Bosses with Claws and Smashas, and they chewed through the Treelord Ancient.  Yes, I got lucky, but that same strategy does well for me against any big scary unit with a tough armor save.

I also know that the Aleguzzler Gargant has its -3 Rend Headbutt and -2 Rend Kick attacks, maybe those will help ;)

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