CanHammer-darren Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 Hi guys. Playing this list currently and have a tournament coming up GKonGheist vargulf 60 zombies 2x6 horrors mourngul Necromancer was thinking of swapping necro out for vampire lord on steed Necromancer is purely there for double pile in but is otherwise useless. Seems to me that vampire lord is harder to kill, moves faster, and can give any unit +1 attack which if used in zombies is effectively as good or better than double pile in (since zombies can die before second pile in) plus can give it to the horrors for devastating results. Plus vampire lord is still a wizard and can actually kill things. To swap I'll have to lower my zombies to 50. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varyn Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 I'd recommend the vampire lord, I use mine with wings and it's decent for killing other heroes on foot, plus it's a lot more survivable, with the 4+, chalice and healing in combat. Plus the spells/command trait are a good combo. I haven't used a necromancer so I can't comment on him, sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FRoper Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 first of all, you will need to units of zombies so split the zombies into a unit of 30 and a unit of 20 and combine them into one one the first term. i would go with personally the vampire, however necromancer is good, but is too weak to use although being able to attack again is great for large units of zombies. with the mourngul, vargulf and terrorghiest he probably won't be targetted so stick him in the centre of the zombies and he should be fine. as long as he is not is not target by any shooting as he is rather flimsy. In your list i would say the being able to attack again is better. howver i would try both out, see which one is more effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanHammer-darren Posted May 7, 2017 Author Share Posted May 7, 2017 Yea sorry. I wrote 60 zombies for ease but they start as 6 units of 10 and I combine them in whatever sized units I need on my first turn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 Imo? The necromancer is a better call. Vanhels is great, and the necromancer doesn't need to be your general to use it, and with the Necro's ability to shrug wounds onto nearby friendly death units it's actually much more survivable than the vampire, ime. The vampire's boost is a command ability, which means he only gets it if you make him the general. Not really a great choice at this points value given how vulnerable he is. Even if it means giving up on the vampire's admittedly nice command ability, i think your choice of command trait is a lot more important. If you're going with ruler of the night, it would be a lot safer on a unit champ in the zombie blob. And if you're going with red fury, it would be a lot more deadly on that monster riding ghoul king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countmoore Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 6 hours ago, CanHammer-darren said: Yea sorry. I wrote 60 zombies for ease but they start as 6 units of 10 and I combine them in whatever sized units I need on my first turn If you are playing under GHB then no merging I'm afraid. No unit can ever exceed its starting size. You would be surprised how resilient and 10 man zombie unit can be though with the healing banner bringing models back coupled with high bravery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countmoore Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 In answer to the OP I've had more mileage out of the necromancer personally than the vamp. Though bear in mind you will probably only ever want to be putting shield on something in your list I would make the Mourngul the general and then either give him ruler of the night (defensive build) or red fury (offensive mode). You can then give an artefact to the GKon TG. Cloak is good to put early pressure on the opponent but cursed book works really well with the Mourngul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanHammer-darren Posted May 7, 2017 Author Share Posted May 7, 2017 Mourngul is not a character. Can he be the general? the zombie warscroll specifically allows units to join together. Doesn't that overrule the ghb? I think ghb was referring to other abilities that add models to units (like vargulf a ability) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 Every model can be the general (in the current GH). I would like zombies to be able to join but in every other case the GH overrule the warscrolls and general rules, not the other way around. For example "once per game you can cast the spell twice" or "on a roll of 6 make another attack this attack can also generate another attack" etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanHammer-darren Posted May 7, 2017 Author Share Posted May 7, 2017 I kinda treat that the newly formed larger unit as a new unit so technically it's not increasing size of the original. And it's not adding to the original. I've not had issues with merging at tournaments so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 from the zombie warscroll: "If two or more units of Zombies from your army are within 1" of each other in your hero phase, they can merge and become a single unit for the rest of the battle." One unit does not 'join' the other, rather both units merge together into a new single unit. There are two ways of interpreting this. Either the single unit is a new unit, in which case it has a new 'starting size' equal to the size of the combined size of the previous two units at the tie they merge, or else it continues to be both units from before, just acting as one for the rest of the battle, in which case it has a 'starting size' equal to the combined starting sizes of both units when they began the game. Which of these two interpretations is correct is unclear at the moment, but neither prevents you from combining two units into a new, bigger unit. The only size restriction that might prevent you from merging zombie units is the maximum unit size for zombie units generally, so you couldn't merge two units of 50 into one of 100. Now, you could make a case that if this is a new unit you'd have to pay reserve points for it, but that is expressly covered by the death compendium faq, which specifies that you do not pay reserve points for the new merged unit. The FAQ also reiterates that the merged unit cannot exceed the maximum unit size for zombie units, but doesn't clarify the other issue. So yeah, at least until there's some other change or faq, you can absolutely field several small units of zombies, then merge them up into one big unit of zombies during the game, even in pitched battles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanHammer-darren Posted May 7, 2017 Author Share Posted May 7, 2017 That's how I've been playing it without any issues from any of my opponents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 39 minutes ago, CanHammer-darren said: That's how I've been playing it without any issues from any of my opponents. I wouldnt have any issues with it either but you never know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradifer Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 If someone literally said to me "ok you need to pay reinforcement points for those zombies you have already paid for" that would be one of the dullest moments of AoS gaming for me. That is like the entire gimmick behind how zombies work, and if I had to sit there and explain how it works when they can literally read the warscroll and solve the issue right there. It seems incredibly straight forward and clear how it works but if you're playing against someone who feels the need to argue that, then be prepared for a long and drawn out not-so-fun experience. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countmoore Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 It's an old argument that I've been unable to win too. The GHB passage attached overrides the zombies scroll I'm afraid. They are still a very good battleline unit without it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FRoper Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 Would the FAQ not trump the generals handbook, which the FAQ states Q: Can I use the Zombies’ Shambling Horde ability to create a unit that is larger than the normal maximum unit size for a Zombie unit in a Pitched Battle? Does it cost reinforcement points to use the ability? A: A: No to both. so it does not cost any points s so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanHammer-darren Posted May 7, 2017 Author Share Posted May 7, 2017 Yup. Sorry but I think zombies can work as intended. Anyway lets get thread back on topic. Necro vs vampire lord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 either the merged zombies are a new unit, with a new staring size, or else they are both old units added together, in which case their starting size is that of both old units added together. Anyway, as for the vampire vs necromancer, i think most of the time the necro will be better, but that depends on whether you have a good target for vanhels. if you don't, then the vampire's debuff spell might work better for you - though, again, I wouldn't rely on its command ability because i wouldn't trust a plain vampire lord as your choice of general at anything but the smallest point values. In the sample list above, both the zombies and the horrors are solid vanhels targets, so the necro seems like a more reliable bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanHammer-darren Posted May 7, 2017 Author Share Posted May 7, 2017 Horrors can't. Spell says specifically zombies or skeletons. Otherwise necromancer would be auto include! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 from the necromancer's scroll (link) on the gw website: Quote VANHEL’S DANSE MACABRE The undead are filled with magical energy that causes them to ****** forwards and attack with tireless, unnatural speed. Vanhel’s Danse Macabre has a casting value of 6. If successfully cast, pick aSkeleton, Mordant or Zombie unit within 18"; that unit can pile in and attack twice in your next combat phase. Mordants are valid targets, and Crypt Horrors are Mordants. Unless there's some faq or errata I'm missing, which is always a possibility. Sadly, the ghoul king is a Vampire and not a Mordant, otherwise a GK on Gheist or Dragon would be a nice target for the spell as well. As it is, double swinging horrors are still a nasty trick, provided your opponent can't just wall them out with a high save tank or tar pit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanHammer-darren Posted May 7, 2017 Author Share Posted May 7, 2017 Wow thanks. Totally missed the mordant word. Wow necromancer is awesome then. Cause 19 attacks from crypt horrors x2 with rerolls is awesome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FRoper Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 i have a question with the Vanhels would you have to choose it as another unit during activation?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanHammer-darren Posted May 7, 2017 Author Share Posted May 7, 2017 Yea. Doesn't say immediately pile in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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