Let's chat : Slaanesh

[Tip4Tap]

12 hours ago, carnith said:

Do you want to go mortals or daemons? 

If you want to go Daemons, I'll list out what I think are the pros and cons as I see them.

Traits

Pretenders - units of 10 or more get reroll 1's to hit, general gets 2 traits.

Seekers - if move is less than 10, add 1 to move and charge, if 10 or more, add 2 instead. Must charge if within 12"

Invaders - one general, but all three dudes get to use command abilities. Don't know how this works just yet in 2nd Edition, but it's suspected that it's one command point to use all 3. We'll see.

Keeper of Secrets

Pros - It's killy as all hell, with 6 2D attacks, and 2 D3 attacks all with rend. The sword of the keeper is one of the few instances of rend 2 in the army, also the only daemon with a command ability to help Slaanesh. Even in 2E with allowing other models to be your general, the keeper still is your best bed. Depending on how tournaments will go with Realm Rules, you may be stuck with Slaanesh artefacts, but thats not a bad thing as Slaanesh has one of the best artefacts, Breathtaker which forces an enemy unit within 3" to pile in and attack last. Meaning you could go up on a big nasty monster, and force it to be the last thing to retaliate, giving you a chance to do as much damage as possible. Reroll 1's to wound, and can cast. Slaanesh traits also work great because you can give stuff like +1 to hit if enough slaanesh daemons are near, or a further -1 to hit against it. Go pretenders and take both. Watch as you cleave through everything. 

Cons - The model is old and sucks, imo. Also, it has 10 wounds, and costs as much as a blood thirster who has 14 and flies. There is only one variant, currently, of the keeper of secrets, and it kind of brings the same thing to the table as the rest of your army, a bunch of lowish damage attacks and is fast. It can cast, but it's unique spell is unlikely to do much. Hope again for realm spells being a thing tournaments use so that the keeper has more worthwhile spells to cast. 

Conclusion: Regardless of the cons, you need it in your list. Some people take 2 because they are so killy. 

Exalted Keeper

Literally better in every way, swords do 3 damage and she has 4 attacks base with them. Also command ability has a farther distance. She can only be taken once in your army, but she isn't unique. She can be given relics and command traits. Do so and make her a monster that she already is. 

Con: 500 points as of now. thats a 1/4 of your army

Heralds

Putting them all here. The heralds on foot/Seeker are okay. They hit on 3's and can reroll saves. They are just okay, but cheap at 60 pts to activate demon abilities.

Heralds on Chariots

Faster and have more attacks, but on the charge they can do mortal wounds. In the new edition, you get points for having them die, so what better way than expensive roadblocks.  Enemy heroes have a -1 to hit them. Exalted variant gives enemies that they charged a +1 to battleshock. 

Daemonettes: Battleline. Blenders. Crab Girls. 4/4/-1/1 stateline with 2 attacks, 3 on leader. Each 6 to hit is another attack and in 20+ models, each 5/6 is an additional hit. These girls want a source of +1 to hit. I take them in squads of 30 to weather the storm of losing models, but when these girls hit, they hit hard. The nice thing is that all the other daemons have moved to 32mm bases, but daemonettes, as tiny as they are, are still on 25's. This means you can effectively rank them up to get 2 rows deep. These girls also run and charge, and with a 6" move, they do quite well for themselves. Keep a Daemon hero near them to make the enemy reroll successful hit roll's of 6's. 

Cons - None. Unless you really love Diaz Daemonettes, then still no con. Maybe no consistent way to give the girls a +1 to hit for more attack shenanigans. Any negative to hit modifers ruin these girls days.

Hellstriders: Battleline if slaanesh. Slaanesh Marauder Calv with the best support banner in the game. Take the Enrapturing Banner to give a model to model aura of -1 to hit. They are okay in combat, though I never use them for it. They make great body guards for the keeper of secrets or daemonettes to make a really frustrating combination of making opponents reroll 6's, then apply a -1 to hit. I run these guys in min squads for this reason. Banners do not stack, but thats fine, you want the flexibility to placing more of these guys around the table. I take 2 squads in my lists, but I wouldn't mind maybe adding a third in at some point. 

Cons: I find mine do poorly in combat. I suggest do not falling for the trap of large squads. While they have a chance to do better the more they are in combat, you have better tools for this job. Hellstriders need around 2 to 3 successful combats to gain enough +attack to be scary, and sigmar games do not last that long. 

Non-battleline

Seekers of Slaanesh

Calv girls who are daemonettes on seekers. Seekers move 12" but can run 2d6 and run. A good enough run can see these girls in the back field early on. No bonuses for large squads. Keep a hero near them to give them +1 to run and charge. Seeker mounts have the same profile as the daemonettes but no rend, and no generating attacks

Cons: They will outpace heroes. 

Fiends

Pros: Fast, have a -1 to hit them in combat. Can have rend 2 on their attacks but only conditionally

Cons: Old models. They are just... okay. Skip

Seeker Chariot

Non herald version. does mortal wounds for every model within 1" after it charges. Auto run's 6. Battleline if you take an exalted herald on chariot. 

Con: It's not exalted.

Exalted Chariot

Non herald. It can't auto run 6" but instead a mortal wound, does d3 mortal wounds. Much better. also 17 attacks. Make it a herald for 20. They still kinda do okay in combat.

Hellflayers

Like seeker chariots, but if they do wounds in the charge phase, you get rerolls of some sort.

I tend to skip these.

 

My list as of now, pending some point charges.

Keeper

2x herald on exalted chariot

Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore (On foot one probably better for unique spell)

Gaunt Summoner (ally)

2x30 daemonettes

2x5 hellstriders

2x Jabberslythes

And I took a balewind.

This list is currently illegal in current points. The Gaunt Summoner went up 60 points, bringing my total allies to 420 and just illegal. He might come out, but with him beign such a good caster, I might lost a jabberslythe. I'll still play around with the list.

 

Wow! Thank you for such an in depth look at the army. This is exactly what I was looking for. I’m going to read through it in detail. I have heard rumours that  Slaanesh might be in line for a new battletome fingers crossed for the future.

[Cambot1231]

Any word yet on points cost of Slaanesh's favorite ally monster the ol' jabberslythe?

[Tip4Tap]

Has anyone tried using Archaon in a Slaanesh army? 

[Tasman]

10 minutes ago, Tip4Tap said:

Has anyone tried using Archaon in a Slaanesh army? 

Kinda..... I used him once in a mash-up army with heroes from Slaanesh, Tzeentch, and Nurgle. It was pretty effective. There were a lot of buffs, lots of synergy. A ton of command abilities. Now that his points are down I will hazard a guess that we'll see more of Archie.

[Enoby]

27 minutes ago, Tip4Tap said:

Has anyone tried using Archaon in a Slaanesh army? 

In one game, yes. I found he didn't do all too much for his points and was killed kind of quickly by the rain of shooting and magic thrown at him; all of the command abilities were nice and all, but overall he's far too expensive. I'd rather take a an Exalted Keeper over him as it does more damage and is 160 points less (that said, there's a chance that the exalted greater daemons may be reduced in points. I've heard that FW considered re-evaluating some of its AoS stuff, and a lot of people thought the exalted daemons weren't worth it)

[Tip4Tap]

20 minutes ago, Enoby said:

In one game, yes. I found he didn't do all too much for his points and was killed kind of quickly by the rain of shooting and magic thrown at him; all of the command abilities were nice and all, but overall he's far too expensive. I'd rather take a an Exalted Keeper over him as it does more damage and is 160 points less (that said, there's a chance that the exalted greater daemons may be reduced in points. I've heard that FW considered re-evaluating some of its AoS stuff, and a lot of people thought the exalted daemons weren't worth it)

I might try and build him into an army for AoS2.

Im slightly worried that if I start building a Slaanesh army they will release a new battletome with new models etc. Might wait a while to see how things pan out in the new edition before jumping in.

[Enoby]

1 hour ago, Tip4Tap said:

I might try and build him into an army for AoS2.

Im slightly worried that if I start building a Slaanesh army they will release a new battletome with new models etc. Might wait a while to see how things pan out in the new edition before jumping in.

I doubt they'll change any of the daemons besides the Keeper and the Fiends, so if you avoid them (and just proxy a keeper) you should be fine for the new book

[Tasman]

14 minutes ago, Enoby said:

doubt they'll change any of the daemons besides the Keeper and the Fiends,

One can hope! Those are, in my opinion, the two most singularly hideous models GW EVER came up with.....

[Carnith]

I haven't used Archaon in my games either. Also I've been searching for jabberslythes and can't find them. I have 2 of them converted up. In my list I posted, I might end up taking out the Gaunt summoner and Put in the keeper's best friend, the chaos sorcerer. Having two spellcasters in my list should be good. I might branch the gaunt summoner off into a small 1k tzeentch list of arcanites since I love tzaangors. 

[Tip4Tap]

I know that shooting took a nerf going into the 2nd edition but how do you guys deal with enemy shooting/the lack of Slaanesh?

[Cyanid32600]

14 minutes ago, Tip4Tap said:

I know that shooting took a nerf going into the 2nd edition but how do you guys deal with enemy shooting/the lack of Slaanesh?

I just got a soul grinder but i thibk AoS 2 their are some spells that might help

[Carnith]

Shooting is for the weak!

Though I play Ironjawz and Slaanesh so two armies that really don't have shooting. 

I bring jabber slythes which have some shooting but really not. 

Sometimes the goal is to flood the enemy with so much high value targets that they don't know what to shoot. For 60 daemonettes, thats so scary that no matter what squad you hit, the other is there. Also people underestimate what the keeper can really do as slaanesh has flown under the radar so much.

With spells, if tournies run realm spells, the keeper has something to do to help with some casting. I typically run the +1 to hit and cast/unbind and the -1 to hit trait. I'm hoping we can take slaanesh traits but realm artefacts, because running something like the + damage or mortal wounds on hit rolls will make the Keeper even more stronger. Though I'm thinking taking Ghur for the gryph trinket for a -1 to hit from all attacks.

[Enoby]

1 hour ago, Tip4Tap said:

I know that shooting took a nerf going into the 2nd edition but how do you guys deal with enemy shooting/the lack of Slaanesh?

Seekers are good for shooting. They're so damn fast that they'll tie up a shooting unit for your slower troops to advance. Your opponent's only chance is to screen, but they'll have to put up a heck of a screen to stop you getting into them. 

[Cyanid32600]

1 hour ago, Enoby said:

Seekers are good for shooting. They're so damn fast that they'll tie up a shooting unit for your slower troops to advance. Your opponent's only chance is to screen, but they'll have to put up a heck of a screen to stop you getting into them. 

Especially with the new shooting rule, get them in quick and they can screen for the daemonettes

[boots468]

So, had a read of the rules for depravity for the first time, and not as good as I hoped (at first read anyway, things may open up later!).

Most importantly, RAW, mortal wounds (inflicted or suffered) do not generate DP. As none of our heroes have shooting attacks, MW from spells are the hardest way for your opponent to stop you generating DP, and not having them count is quite a blow (though to be fair, against non-summoning armies having DP at all is still a net gain (how many non-summoning armies you'll see these days remains to be seen...)).

Assuming your opponent doesn't have many MW sources (or focusses them on targets other than your heroes for some reason), the DP mechanic does seem very helpful though - a herald only has to inflict 2 wounds to be DP neutral (on a chariot has to inflict 7, on an exalted chariot has to do 10 and poor old Keepers have to try and do 15 before they are shot off) so if you max out on heroes, you'll surely get some summons back at some point in the game.

Summons needing to be near an existing HERO further reinforces the want to take all 6 permitted heroes. With the required 3 battleline this will normally leave us not getting the choice of first turn (esp. now battalions give a free command point), but thankfully Seekers are nearly guaranteed a 1st turn charge still and a lot of fragile armies do not want fully buffed, piling in twice, Seekers on them before they can get buffs up (or generate any CP for inspiring prescence), so first turn for us isn't as bad as for some!

[Carnith]

I just realized how stupid Seekers Host + Cogs will be. +4 move and charge on all of our cav. Hellstriders move 20" have a 5" charge base. Seekers will move 16 + 2d6+1 for a hero nearby, then on top of that have probably a +4 to charge. Keeper and exalted keeper will move 18 and with a +4 to charge can literally not fail a charge as if you go straight forward, you will be 6" away meaning even a 2 will not fail. Give the keeper their best friend bodyguards and with the -1 to hit, you are up in their lines turn 1 causing combat. If tournies will allow us realm artefacts, then we can take the gryph trinket for a further -1 to all shooting and attacks, It's just so... silly. I wonder how viable it will be to have a 2k army combat army in your face turn 1 ?

[Enoby]

7 hours ago, boots468 said:

 

Most importantly, RAW, mortal wounds (inflicted or suffered) do not generate DP. As none of our heroes have shooting attacks, MW from spells are the hardest way for your opponent to stop you generating DP, and not having them count is quite a blow (though to be fair, against non-summoning armies having DP at all is still a net gain (how many non-summoning armies you'll see these days remains to be seen...)).

 

Why don't mortal wounds generate depravity points? I think mortal wounds count as wounds suffered. 

(I'm 99% sure I read this in an FAQ, but can't find where it is; I hope GW clears up their rules in 2nd edition - it's sometimes like a maze to find anything)

Edit: I still can't find what I read, but these are the rules in 2nd ed. It says treat them as normal wounds after they've been allocated, so I guess that includes depravity points 

[boots468]

2 hours ago, Enoby said:

Why don't mortal wounds generate depravity points? I think mortal wounds count as wounds suffered. 

(I'm 99% sure I read this in an FAQ, but can't find where it is; I hope GW clears up their rules in 2nd edition - it's sometimes like a maze to find anything)

Edit: I still can't find what I read, but these are the rules in 2nd ed. It says treat them as normal wounds after they've been allocated, so I guess that includes depravity points 

 

Sweet! Well found. That certainly helps!

[Enoby]

I wonder how good the Chaos Sorcerer on Manticore will be now; its spell, when cast on an average roll, does 2d3 mortal wounds (so about 4). It also has 12 wounds for a measly 200 points (and it comes equipped with a free way to give out what is equivalent to new mystic shield). Even if it only gets its spell off once on a hero and then dies, it's stilp generating 15 DP. Might be worth taking now, especially with endless spells (and especially especially the cogs, which will give us +2" movement first turn, and then let him or the other chaos sorcerer get extra spells on the second turn). 

[Waiyuren]

38 minutes ago, Enoby said:

I wonder how good the Chaos Sorcerer on Manticore will be now; its spell, when cast on an average roll, does 2d3 mortal wounds (so about 4). It also has 12 wounds for a measly 200 points (and it comes equipped with a free way to give out what is equivalent to new mystic shield). Even if it only gets its spell off once on a hero and then dies, it's stilp generating 15 DP. Might be worth taking now, especially with endless spells (and especially especially the cogs, which will give us +2" movement first turn, and then let him or the other chaos sorcerer get extra spells on the second turn). 

I personally really like the manticore, he can really punch hard sometimes. Admittedly I was taking him in a Tzeentch list, so the swingy damage was mitigated a bit by being able to fix the casting total, but he's also not a complete pushover in close combat and can be safely sent to shred a 10-strong objective holding unit if need be.

[Carnith]

i really like my sorcerer on manticore. I've had him do... well nothing but exist. Other times I've had him to 7-8 mortal wounds to a target that really needed damage.  Super swingy, but I love him either way.

[Enoby]

2 hours ago, carnith said:

i really like my sorcerer on manticore. I've had him do... well nothing but exist. Other times I've had him to 7-8 mortal wounds to a target that really needed damage.  Super swingy, but I love him either way.

That's good to hear - I may pick one up, after a few tests with a proxy. I suppose he may end up being less swingy with endless spells as you won't always need to rely on his damage spell to do anything. How big is he, by the way? The model looks quite big in pictures but I've seen it look small in battlereports - it's like an optical illusion in model form. 

[Carnith]

He's fairly tall and his base is the same as the chariots. He won't be hiding very much. Also I painted him with nice golden army and a white cloak. I made him into a look alike of Sigvald.

[Enoby]

Does anyone else think the invaders host looks very underwhelming now? I may be misreading something, but afaik it just counts three of your heroes as a general which would let them do some of the new command traits further away. However, unlike before it doesn't allow us to use three command abilities instead of one (you'd still have to have the command points). It seems like it went from "okay/good in some scenarios" to "a small buff that may never come up if you would normally keep your heroes close to units anyway". 

[Edgecoc]

I would go seekers in the future. The extra speed really comes in handy.