Let's chat : Maggotkin of Nurgle

[Killax]

As said earlier, since the range of Nurgle models is so absolutely massive I believe you can go a lot of ways. The only reason for me to focus on some GUO lists is because I feel a General should serve a purpose in an army and a GUO based army is more purposeful in an army that contains a large number of Plaguebearers/Plaguedrones etc.

Having said that, you can still go Mortal heavy too, absolutely! The reason why Im not too big on the Glottkin is because I do feel you hand over a Command Trait as the Glottkin is bound to be your general. Still can be very much worth it however and even non-Glottkin non-GUO armies in my opinion can do some great stuff.

For example, I really like the idea of a Gutrot + 10 Blightkings unit for flank/rear purposes also. It has a much better body as Nurglings, good output and perhaps even more importantly leads to a quick and high Contagion Point stack. Marauders in that same vein can certainly be a cheap addition for Nurgle armies who want a larger army, offcourse with Clan Pestilence this swarm can only be larger. Funnily enough I think that Gutrot actually does a ton of work for Blightkings and the Lord of Afflicition for the Plaguebearers on Drones. 

Speaking of Blight Trees, I am certainly interested in how people feel about getting the Ferulent Gnarlmaw 4-5 times, maby more. To me it's a large part of the armies power and somehow I felt that the discussion on this so far has been relatively small. I guess players are just waiting to obtain them to actually test them too. I personally see them as a massive asset that closes the gap between army sizes as the game continues. 

[Tasman]

11 minutes ago, Killax said:

As said earlier, since the range of Nurgle models is so absolutely massive I believe you can go a lot of ways. The only reason for me to focus on some GUO lists is because I feel a General should serve a purpose in an army and a GUO based army is more purposeful in an army that contains a large number of Plaguebearers/Plaguedrones etc.

Having said that, you can still go Mortal heavy too, absolutely! The reason why Im not too big on the Glottkin is because I do feel you hand over a Command Trait as the Glottkin is bound to be your general. Still can be very much worth it however and even non-Glottkin non-GUO armies in my opinion can do some great stuff.

For example, I really like the idea of a Gutrot + 10 Blightkings unit for flank/rear purposes also. It has a much better body as Nurglings, good output and perhaps even more importantly leads to a quick and high Contagion Point stack. Marauders in that same vein can certainly be a cheap addition for Nurgle armies who want a larger army, offcourse with Clan Pestilence this swarm can only be larger. Funnily enough I think that Gutrot actually does a ton of work for Blightkings and the Lord of Afflicition for the Plaguebearers on Drones. 

Speaking of Blight Trees, I am certainly interested in how people feel about getting the Ferulent Gnarlmaw 4-5 times, maby more. To me it's a large part of the armies power and somehow I felt that the discussion on this so far has been relatively small. I guess players are just waiting to obtain them to actually test them too. I personally see them as a massive asset that closes the gap between army sizes as the game continues. 

I'm also looking forward to Gutrot shenanigans! I struggled finding a use for him before. Time to rebase him now.

[hughwyeth]

50 minutes ago, Killax said:

Having said that, you can still go Mortal heavy too, absolutely! The reason why Im not too big on the Glottkin is because I do feel you hand over a Command Trait as the Glottkin is bound to be your general. Still can be very much worth it however and even non-Glottkin non-GUO armies in my opinion can do some great stuff.

I think it'll be really interesting to see the successful Maggotkin lists at the GTs. Currently, I think GUOs will be everywhere because their benefits are pretty apparent. I built my list 3 months ago way before I had any idea there'd be new Nurgle stuff and it's based around the Glottkin. I'll be testing out the list and then seeing if it's worth swapping out the Glottkin for a GUO. I'm tempted to say people are overestimating the GUO and underestimating the Glottkin in relative terms. The Glottkin's spell is extremely useful on 40 marauders or 30 plaguebearers and it's buff is a bubble, not for a specific unit. 

I think the gnarlmaws will be interesting. The idea of seeding the board with 4 or 5 within a few turns would make a lot of the table very Nurgle friendly and allow us to zip about the board. 

[Killax]

Absolutely, though I do wonder if Nurgle armies will be as well represented that soon. Age of Sigmar armies thake a while to build, get the feel of and bascially work in. BoK didn't make a quick appearance either and to me this was because there is a learning curve to these armies. If there is something like Tier 1,2,3 etc. I'd say Nurgle is Tier 2 on the basis of it being A LOT of book keeping. To me the fact of the matter is also that you need it, because if that aspect is forgotten or removed you end up with well... litterly missing out on several D3 mortal wounds a turn. 

I don't think anyone is really underestimating the Glottkin, though I do think many know that despite it's abilities and stature it actually isn't that relatively difficult to thake out. By mathhammer I'd rather face the Glottkin with a Bloodthirster or Bloodletter block as a GUO. The difference is in those saves, healing an sniping. Don't get me wrong though, the 14" bubble of additional attacks is certainly at least twice as good as GUO's Command Ability. Indeed it keeps the Marauders relevant too and those are the choice for numbers if you go down a Mortal road.

What I indeed personally think is the strongest asset is to have that battle be roughly in your territory, with at least 1-2 Blight Trees affecting units. I love how it adds up. I also love how twiddeling with the Cycle of Decay basically eliminates smaller characters and this is where I think Nurgle is at it's strongest. I say this also because I got to love the Plaguebearer Drones and Spume with their character "hunting abilities". Several armies their lynchpin is their support and Nurgle seems to eliminate it well.

[DynamicCalories]

My only to cents to throw in, is as someone who started collecting Nurgle when I got into AoS last year which led me to get into Death Guard for new 40k, I am glad that they have a a proper overhaul, but also shaking my head at all the fairweather collectors

As ever, a lot of the units put me off for actual cost/painting investment because I am quite cash poor at the moment due to bad employment situations, but I am happy to start slotting together a messy Mortal/Daemon force headed by a GUO that I have raised cash for by selling some old metal stuff!

[FRoper]

i am thinking of taking Glottkin till I can get a GUO, as I have lots of mortals to use and with festus and a harbringer with a blight cyst could be quite strong. 

Glottkin

Lord of Blights

Rotbringer 

Harbringer (general)

3x 5 Blightkings

blight cyst

 

what would work well with the rest of the list. I was thinking of some plague drones for support

[Yeled]

47 minutes ago, DynamicCalories said:

My only to cents to throw in, is as someone who started collecting Nurgle when I got into AoS last year which led me to get into Death Guard for new 40k, I am glad that they have a a proper overhaul, but also shaking my head at all the fairweather collectors

As ever, a lot of the units put me off for actual cost/painting investment because I am quite cash poor at the moment due to bad employment situations, but I am happy to start slotting together a messy Mortal/Daemon force headed by a GUO that I have raised cash for by selling some old metal stuff!

Being put off by people jumping on the bandwagon of a faction getting a major overhaul is a bit silly. Factions that get updates and new factions are always going to attract new people. GW depends on it for their business.

Personally I'm jumping into the Nurgle fray after running Wanderers the past year and a half. I have to say that running an old, unsupported faction with six units and two effective heroes from which to choose has left a bad taste in my mouth. Especially once the Compendium units were retconned out of the faction. Not that I don't like the faction, and I'm still painting up the full army, but it's hard not to feel a bit abandoned when you really have no prospects for anything new coming out...ever. (Sometimes I think GW should have just done away with the old factions rather than let them linger ambiguously and indefinitely, but that's a different topic).

I got attracted to Nurgle because of the new Slimux model, the flavor they seemed to be taking with Nurgle (since confirmed), and the prospect of a major update. Now that we're in the thick of it I am more excited about Age of Sigmar than I've ever been previously. I feel I've paid my dues. Don't begrudge me and those like me for wanting to actually play a supported faction. It's exciting.

[DynamicCalories]

I thought the wink was a clear indicator that I wasn't being serious!

As Grand Papa Nurgle would say, the more the merrier! Grow fecund with his bountiful gifts!

 

Edit: I'll just add @Yeled, I am sorry it came across as being mean, I didn't at all mean it in a bad way, it was just a joke -  I abandoned Nurgle myself for a brief dalliance with the Kharadron Overlords, and then went back to Nurgle for the Death Guard! People can collected whatever they way as far as I am concerned  

[Aaron Schmidt]

 

51 minutes ago, DynamicCalories said:

...but also shaking my head at all the fairweather collectors

GW CARES NOT WHERE THE MONEY FLOWS FROM!

[DynamicCalories]

Over a long enough period of time everybody either turns to rot and worships Nurgle, or is raised from the dead by Nagash

[hughwyeth]

1 hour ago, FRoper said:

i am thinking of taking Glottkin till I can get a GUO, as I have lots of mortals to use and with festus and a harbringer with a blight cyst could be quite strong. 

Glottkin

Lord of Blights

Rotbringer 

Harbringer (general)

3x 5 Blightkings

blight cyst

 

what would work well with the rest of the list. I was thinking of some plague drones for support

You need some marauders or plaguebearers to take advantage of the Glottkin's spell. If not, you might as well remove him from the list!

[GeneralZero]

In the last white dwarf, there is a nice battle report fyreslayers vs Maggotkin (nurgle). It looks great and the nurgle army is hot. Especially with its 2 GUO, 2 different ones. So, here is the 2000 points question: what do you think about an army with:

1. 2 GUO (2 different ones)

2. 1 GUO and 1 Gotkin

3. 2 Gotkins (is it even possible?)

 

[GeneralZero]

2 hours ago, Yeled said:

people jumping on the bandwagon

yeah I got you. But....

Nurgle sems to be a big, no, a GREAT  turning point in the battle tome policy. And that also seems to be  done also in the upcoming Death battletome.

I explain: In the nurgle battle tome you don't have only ONE army, you can build at least 3 very differents ones with allegiance (mortal, blight, daemons), plus all the chaos combinations. This is by far the most complete battle tome for a specific army since AoS was out.  All of this is backed up with the richest miniatures pool specific for nurgle! Imagine that the GUO kit can alone be built in 3 really different Mega Monsters! (yeah, I know about the Death big one also zomby dragon neferata etc...). You have also, for a new army 2 SC (in fact one SC plus blightwar box).  The only type of unit that I dont see is some long rage shooting, but maybe I'm wrong (I don't have yet the battle tome).

Upcoming death battletome seems to be oriented the same way. 

I'm super excited about 2018 releases 

[sal4m4nd3r]

27 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

In the last white dwarf, there is a nice battle report fyreslayers vs Maggotkin (nurgle). It looks great and the nurgle army is hot. Especially with its 2 GUO, 2 different ones. So, here is the 2000 points question: what do you think about an army with:

1. 2 GUO (2 different ones)

2. 1 GUO and 1 Gotkin

3. 2 Gotkins (is it even possible?)

 

Cant take 2 glotkins. And it wouldnt be strong at all.  option 2 sounds better. Option 1 would really work in a demon only list. 

[Yeled]

20 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

yeah I got you. But....

Nurgle sems to be a big, no, a GREAT  turning point in the battle tome policy. And that also seems to be  done also in the upcoming Death battletome.

I explain: In the nurgle battle tome you don't have only ONE army, you can build at least 3 very differents ones with allegiance (mortal, blight, daemons), plus all the chaos combinations. This is by far the most complete battle tome for a specific army since AoS was out.  All of this is backed up with the richest miniatures pool specific for nurgle! Imagine that the GUO kit can alone be built in 3 really different Mega Monsters! (yeah, I know about the Death big one also zomby dragon neferata etc...). You have also, for a new army 2 SC (in fact one SC plus blightwar box).  The only type of unit that I dont see is some long rage shooting, but maybe I'm wrong (I don't have yet the battle tome).

Upcoming death battletome seems to be oriented the same way. 

I'm super excited about 2018 releases 

I don't think this is new for Nurgle, though the Maggotkin Battletome continues the tradition. Both Blades of Khorne and Disciples of Tzeentch are the same, and really set the trend. Additionally, GW seems to have abandoned the idea of the Stormcast being split into different factions. They still have the chambers in the fluff and as keywords, but they have all been lumped together into one book and are sold together on the website. So I think there is a general trend towards this model. I agree we'll see it for Death, and I suspect we'll see it as more and more Battletomes are released. Maybe Aelves will be together, for example.

[Vomikron Noxis]

What to do with my last 100 points dudes?? List:

GUO
Poxbringer
Sorcerer
Daemon Prince 
30 plaguebearers 
30 plaguebearers 
10 plaguebearers 
6 drones

Nurglings perhaps? Save it for balewind or summons? Got a nice lord Of Chaos on foot I could use but don’t think he’d bring much to the table!

[smucreo]

With so many plaguebearers you could go for scrivener. It's 100 points so you'd be golden.

EDIT: wait you have four heroes already haha

[Roostmanuva]

Now the new tome is out I’m going to be giving my mixed nurgle army a run out for the first time. I know The Glottkin cannot take a command trait, as they are a named character.  Can they take a spell from the Lore of Maligance?

[Vomikron Noxis]

6 minutes ago, smucreo said:

With so many plaguebearers you could go for scrivener. It's 100 points so you'd be golden.

EDIT: wait you have four heroes already haha

Haha yeh I did consider him, but I’m not convinced he’s even that useful  Not a terrible use of the points though tbh.

[wayniac]

GUO with bell seems like a must take (unfortunately as while it's an awesome model, that's a big chunk of cash to drop!).  You can get +5" movement between that and putting the cycle on 1.  The issue I'm running into now is that everything is so darn expensive, there's not enough points!

[Killax]

3 hours ago, GeneralZero said:

Nurgle sems to be a big, no, a GREAT  turning point in the battle tome policy. And that also seems to be  done also in the upcoming Death battletome.

I explain: In the nurgle battle tome you don't have only ONE army, you can build at least 3 very differents ones with allegiance (mortal, blight, daemons), plus all the chaos combinations. This is by far the most complete battle tome for a specific army since AoS was out.  All of this is backed up with the richest miniatures pool specific for nurgle! Imagine that the GUO kit can alone be built in 3 really different Mega Monsters! (yeah, I know about the Death big one also zomby dragon neferata etc...). You have also, for a new army 2 SC (in fact one SC plus blightwar box).  The only type of unit that I dont see is some long rage shooting, but maybe I'm wrong (I don't have yet the battle tome).

Upcoming death battletome seems to be oriented the same way. 

I'm super excited about 2018 releases 

Well one of the biggest problems GW pushed themselves into was by creating that many sub-sub-allegiances in the first place and not supplement them with nearly enough models to make sence of it. What I think this comes from is that initially GW didn't realized how great Keywords as a system works if not spread too thin  too odd, too specialized etc.

Nagash's Legions will be a great Battletome too because it makes sence from a narrative perspective. The reason why Everchosen is a poor excuse of a Battletome is because all the narrative and design speaks of Archaon leading Slaves to Darkness armies. There is not a single Slaves to Darkness unit in that book. However the Battalions in that book want you to use them. In other words it's oddly created book content.

For a second imagne if GW did the exact same with Nagash (which up until GH2017 they did). Deathlords lead several Death armies, some of which are respectable sub-factions. However for Matched play they are unable to do that due to Allies and Matched play restrictions for that. Nagash for example can't even lead a Soulblight army. The same is true for Archaon being currently unable to lead an otherwise Slaves to Darkness army

What I finally see is that GW is thaking their own logical way to use narrative as their design standpoint. Since Nurgle's first AoS story there was talk about Gardens of Nurgle, this is something you can actually create now.

[GeneralZero]

Yeah but don't forget how the whole thing was created 

AoS was a bet, born uppon a tabled WHFB, which was dying also (it was a mess, and a little part of the GW revenue, compared to WH40K)

They had to make quickly some new armies in addition to kinda keep some old ones (with light and unexpensive refresh). Death armies were also in this train. The whole thing was almost well done despite the lack of deepness. Progressively, they added some new things, new armies and GH (known now as GH2016). And it was a success. So much that the same recipe went to 40K. And then, they added some "pure" AoS additions, extremly typed (like IJ, Tzench, KO). Huge success. They , at last, listened the players, and bam: GH2017. The story was scealed. They could now ciment the whole thing in a narrative way.

New era: malign portent. they're keeping the rythm (hopefuly) Narative+typed+updates. And now, they have HUGE means (Financial+ production+marketing+success story) to acheive it. (did you read the last semester financial report? wow! )

 

 

[Arkiham]

1 minute ago, GeneralZero said:

Yeah but don't forget how the whole thing was created 

AoS was a bet, 

 

 

That's simply not true.

im going to assume this is bait so ill leave it at that

[Chibbins]

16 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

They had to make quickly some new armies in addition to kinda keep some old ones (with light and unexpensive refresh). Death armies were also in this train. The whole thing was almost well done despite the lack of deepness. Progressively, they added some new things, new armies and GH (known now as GH2016). And it was a success. So much that the same recipe went to 40K. And then, they added some "pure" AoS additions, extremly typed (like IJ, Tzench, KO). Huge success. They , at last, listened the players, and bam: GH2017. The story was scealed. They could now ciment the whole thing in a narrative way.

New era: malign portent. they're keeping the rythm (hopefuly) Narative+typed+updates. And now, they have HUGE means (Financial+ production+marketing+success story) to acheive it. (did you read the last semester financial report? wow! )

 

 

I do wonder whether malign portents is going to be AoS 2.0 and GWs way of finally tidying up the summoning problem. It was poorly implemented when AoS first came out and I feel that using the reinforcement points system was just a stop-gap to try and manage the problem until they could come up with some new ideas.

I’m completely speculating, but the new way for nurgle summoning would be a good system to implement across all armies and death armies would get to benefit most from it... hence the release of malign portents. The nurgle battletome coming out so close to it could mean that they’ve done it in anticipation.

Seeing as summoning points are gained throughout the game brings some balance to how much can be summoned and when... do you spend points bringing  smaller things on the board quickly or save them up for something better later in the game. This would remove the need to include the points for these units in your starting army list, meaning you could have for example 2300 points worth of stuff at the end of a 2000 point game... GW gets to sell more models including more scenery! Obviously this would mean a great deal to death armies and make them more thematic but benefits daemons too. Would also kind of explain the need for Stormcast to suddenly get their own spellcaster...

The fact they’ve removed summoning from the nurgle warscrolls meaning that non-nurgle chaos armies can’t summon them on anymore, and unusually, forgeworld updating their nurgle warscrolls at the same time to match the battletome makes me think that more of this is going to be in the pipeline...

Just my 2 cents... probably completely wrong ?

[Killax]

 

6 minutes ago, Chibbins said:

I do wonder whether malign portents is going to be AoS 2.0 and GWs way of finally tidying up the summoning problem. It was poorly implemented when AoS first came out and I feel that using the reinforcement points system was just a stop-gap to try and manage the problem until they could come up with some new ideas.

I’m completely speculating, but the new way for nurgle summoning would be a good system to implement across all armies and death armies would get to benefit most from it... hence the release of malign portents. The nurgle battletome coming out so close to it could mean that they’ve done it in anticipation.

Seeing as summoning points are gained throughout the game brings some balance to how much can be summoned and when... do you spend points bringing  smaller things on the board quickly or save them up for something better later in the game. This would remove the need to include the points for these units in your starting army list, meaning you could have for example 2300 points worth of stuff at the end of a 2000 point game... GW gets to sell more models including more scenery! Obviously this would mean a great deal to death armies and make them more thematic but benefits daemons too. Would also kind of explain the need for Stormcast to suddenly get their own spellcaster...

The fact they’ve removed summoning from the nurgle warscrolls meaning that non-nurgle chaos armies can’t summon them on anymore, and unusually, forgeworld updating their nurgle warscrolls at the same time to match the battletome makes me think that more of this is going to be in the pipeline...

Just my 2 cents... probably completely wrong ?

Well I think it's certainly going to be what I feel is AoS 1.0. Which might sound strange to some but I still really feel that GW is in their exploration stage with Age of Sigmar. They try this and that to see what sticks and offcourse there is some real thought given into it but as can be seen in GH2016 vs GH2017 good ideas at the start are often much harder to improve as time goes on.

What I do think is that this new summonning is a hint of what can come. If anything it's another way to test things.

 As to why AoS designers don't simply go for the simple yet very effective 40K style of things I don't really know. Because the problem I have with this Nurgle Contagion system is that they basically removed a real reason to summon Nurgle Daemons altogether. This was not so much build with the Contagion points alone but cemented with how Spume allows you to essentially deep strike for free and how Nurglings have it. So if you want to do it from the getgo, and people do, there are better alternatives.

We'll see how the future of AoS will all pan out. I think that the campaigns are the best way to slowly roll into another edition  It's also common for GW to do that. But I think that the first AoS change will occur in 2020 and not 2018.