LLC Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Question!!! For the plaguebearers' locus ability you can reroll saves of 1. Is that only on the first save roll or can I reroll 1s for disgusting resillience?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soldier of decay Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 2 hours ago, LLC said: Question!!! For the plaguebearers' locus ability you can reroll saves of 1. Is that only on the first save roll or can I reroll 1s for disgusting resillience?? I don’t re-roll DR as it is an ability roll to ignore the wound. Not a Save roll to Save against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 On 10/11/2017 at 11:23 AM, Tasman said: Play it how you want.... I'm just looking at Tzeentch not allying with Nurgle unless you are playing straight chaos. The book only specifies slaves to darkness models with mark of tzeentch being ineligible, have a look at the punctuation. If sayl can be taken as a slaves to darkness ally, GS can be taken as an everchosen ally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasman Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 7 hours ago, Retro said: The book only specifies slaves to darkness models with mark of tzeentch being ineligible, have a look at the punctuation. If sayl can be taken as a slaves to darkness ally, GS can be taken as an everchosen ally. What does Sayl have to do with it? He doesn't have any marks in his keywords at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robotnik_taco Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 On 11/9/2017 at 6:02 PM, Tasman said: Um, nope. GS is Tzeentch, Everchosen keyword doesn't matter here. Tzeentch can't ally with Nurgle. Play straight chaos alliance, then yeah, it's ok. The main point of contention here is what can or cannot be taken. The nurgle profile states, slaves to darkness (except for those with the mark of tzeench). This specifically states slaves to darkness units. While the recent faq establishes that a tzeentch army refers to all units with the tzeentch keyword, the opposite of this is not true. For instance, clan pestilens has the nurgle keyword. However, if you were running a clan skryre army, who are allied with clan pestilens, you could not take plague bearers. Why, have I found a neat loophole? According to the faq under your interpretation, pestilens=nurgle (because slaves to darkness-tzeentch=tzeentch) so I should be able to take whatever nurgle type things I want . While the gaunt summoner has the tzeenctch keyword, which may disqualify it from being an ally by that route you propose, it has the everchosen keyword (an entire faction, according to you, which is not eligible to be allied with anyone despite being allies with every non-skaven chaos faction, because they possess a chaos mark that could be in direct opposition of that particular god) So do you interpret the rules as every demon faction can ally with two other entire demon factions because slaves to darkness=every demon faction, and that the everchosen faction cant ally with anyone because they have the opposing demons enemy keyword? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uveron Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 13 minutes ago, robotnik_taco said: While i can see your argument, this way of thinking invalidates any chaos god aligned archaon lists. He possesses all of the chaos god allegiances, there for making him, according to your logic, allegiance breakers for any slaanesh(khorne), tzeench(nurgle), nurgle(tzeentch), or khorne(slaanesh), as he possesses the type they cannot ally with. The main point of contention here is what can or cannot be taken. The nurgle profile states, slaves to darkness (except for those with the mark of tzeench). This specifically states slaves to darkness units. While the recent faq establishes that a tzeentch army refers to all units with the tzeentch keyword, the opposite of this is not true. For instance, clan pestilens has the nurgle keyword. However, if you were running a clan skryre army, who are allied with clan pestilens, you could not take plague bearers. Why, have I found a neat loophole? According to the faq under your interpretation, pestilens=nurgle (because slaves to darkness-tzeentch=tzeentch) so I should be able to take whatever nurgle type things I want . While the gaunt summoner has the tzeenctch keyword, which may disqualify it from being an ally by that route you propose, it has the everchosen keyword (an entire faction, according to you, which is not eligible to be allied with anyone despite being allies with every non-skaven chaos faction, because they possess a chaos mark that could be in direct opposition of that particular god) So do you interpret the rules as every demon faction can ally with two other entire demon factions because slaves to darkness=every demon faction, and that the everchosen faction cant ally with anyone because they have the opposing demons enemy keyword? Because if you do the nice people in the various archaon threads would appreciate this knowledge that they can use fate dice or blood tithe because he is also nurgle/slaanesh marked . @Tasman argument doesn't do this, as you do not Allie in Archaon you take him as part of your list and becuse he has the relevant 'God' keyword. Also if we look at plague monks, you can allie them with Clan Skryre; as Clan Skryre does not say 'no to mark of nurgle'... it just says you can allie in units with the Clan Pestilence keyword. That being said! @robotnik_tacoI agree with you logic about the fact that the Tzeench ban is on units allied using the Slaves to Darkness keyword. But that being said I understand Tasmans reluctance to agree with this interpretation, as it could very well be an oversight. Given that this is the only unit that has a 'Mark' and not from a god specific fraction or slaves to darkness. and it would not suprise me that if a Nugrle book was to be relised that if it clarifies allieances, then it would block this as well. At this point, we are waiting on GW. My interp is that by RaW its allowed, but a good RaI can be made, which I think is Tasmans point. And one we should respect and move on from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robotnik_taco Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 19 minutes ago, Uveron said: @Tasman argument doesn't do this, as you do not Allie in Archaon you take him as part of your list and becuse he has the relevant 'God' keyword. Also if we look at plague monks, you can allie them with Clan Skryre; as Clan Skryre does not say 'no to mark of nurgle'... it just says you can allie in units with the Clan Pestilence keyword. That being said! @robotnik_tacoI agree with you logic about the fact that the Tzeench ban is on units allied using the Slaves to Darkness keyword. But that being said I understand Tasmans reluctance to agree with this interpretation, as it could very well be an oversight. Given that this is the only unit that has a 'Mark' and not from a god specific fraction or slaves to darkness. and it would not suprise me that if a Nugrle book was to be relised that if it clarifies allieances, then it would block this as well. At this point, we are waiting on GW. My interp is that by RaW its allowed, but a good RaI can be made, which I think is Tasmans point. And one we should respect and move on from. I think the issue hes picking up on was the from the faq that says anything with the chaos god keyword is there for considered that army (pestilens has the mark of nurgle so =nurgle, slaves to darkness has tzeentch keyword =tzeentch https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/10/15/chaos-warscroll-updatesgw-homepage-post-4/) and hes reverse engineering the rules to mean that a specific faction includes its entire god faction. the skryre thing was sarcasm that didn't translate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uveron Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 2 minutes ago, robotnik_taco said: I think the issue hes picking up on was the from the faq that says anything with the chaos god keyword is there for considered that army (pestilens has the mark of nurgle so =nurgle, slaves to darkness has tzeentch keyword =tzeentch) and hes reverse engineering the rules to mean that a specific faction includes it entire god faction. the skryre thing was sarcasm that didn't translate. No, this conversation had been going on for a bit. And we had already covered that ground. Also for extra confusion, the FAQ says nothing on the issue. A post on the community site talks about it, but its not yet in the official FAQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robotnik_taco Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 Point taken. I'll move along. So has anyone done any comparing between large groups of plague toads vs plague drones? Or pox riders vs drones? Toads seem like a great value but drones seem much more versatile in their superior movement and kill capacity, or is this apples and oranges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spenson Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 Well it's more like apples and expensive oranges (almost 85€ for 3 pox riders). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowgra Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 They have completely different roles. Toads are broken but really expensive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vomikron Noxis Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 Everyone loves toads, but what do they actually do that plaguebearers don’t? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uveron Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 2 minutes ago, Vomikron Noxis said: Everyone loves toads, but what do they actually do that plaguebearers don’t? Move fast, Shoot... They compare to drones more than Plaguebeares... as for which is better I do not know as I have never used Toads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowgra Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 Plaguebearers are slower, costs more per wounds, have a worse DR, cannot shoot, deal less damage. Plaguebearers tho can restore models and have penalties to hit. I honestly prefer toads and by far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vomikron Noxis Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 Hmm I do like the look of toads in that case... tough to find the points when I want to run drones too though, and good old PBs as battleline... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowgra Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 I often thought about a full swarm tecnique with daemons. Also because otherwise they lack so much compared to mortals. You could do something like this: Guo (240) cunnin deceiver, chaos talisman Guo (240) 30 plaguebearers (270) 10 marauders (60) 10 marauders (60) 12 plague toads (320) 12 plague toads (320) 6 drones (440) Tot 1950 I woudl still prefer to drop drones for other plaguebearers and have some unkillable blobs in order to swamp the enemy. The only problems with this list is that is slow as ******. Toads kinda male up for that but you are a less damaging and tankier fyreslayer. Also with less mobility since you cannot tunnel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avvien Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 New guy here about to leap into my first ever match VS my friend's Daughters of Khaine. We're starting off with a 1000 points game, where he'll run; A hag 2 cauldrons 60 Witch Aelves Meanwhile, this is the list I'm thinking to test against him: Harbinger of Decay - 140 - Beguiling Gem - Dark Avenger - Morbid Vigour Chaos Sorcerer Lord - 160 - Crown of Conquest 20x Chaos Marauders - 120 - Axes & Shields - Damned Icon - Mark of Nurgle 5x Putrid Blightkings - 180 3x Plague Drones - 220 Plagueclaw - 180 1000/1000 I'm thinking I might swap out the plagueclaw for 5 more blightkings, not sure. Either way, I could really use some advice on what else might be sweet in this list. I see people speak warmly about furies? Or maybe Chaos Knights? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowgra Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 I really think that dropping drones for some more mortals would be beneficial. I like knights when you can purchase the plaguetouched (they are regardless a good unit). What about something like this? Harbinger (dark avenger, chaos talisman) CSL 5 blightkings 5 blightkings 10 marauders 15 chaos warriors You have a good amount of bodies, kinda tanky, 2 blightkings will melt witch aelves. 10 marauders for capping. Be careful that the beguiling gem only affects 1 model, so it is rather inefficient in most cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avvien Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 I don't actually have any chaos warriors handy. The idea for the drones was that they'd give me some speed, a bit of range, and even bonus mortal wounds since Harbinger has Daemon keyword - But for a list without them, I have enough Blightkings to field something like; Harbinger of Decay Chaos Sorcerer Lord Lord of Plagues 10x Chaos Marauders 5x Putrid Blightkings 5x Putrid Blightkings 5x Putrid Blightkings Again, his Witch Aelves make for a really big and juicy target, so I could cut 5 kings for a Plagueclaw and field them as a unit of 10 for big buffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LLC Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 24 minutes ago, Avvien said: I don't actually have any chaos warriors handy. The idea for the drones was that they'd give me some speed, a bit of range, and even bonus mortal wounds since Harbinger has Daemon keyword - But for a list without them, I have enough Blightkings to field something like; Harbinger of Decay Chaos Sorcerer Lord Lord of Plagues 10x Chaos Marauders 5x Putrid Blightkings 5x Putrid Blightkings 5x Putrid Blightkings Again, his Witch Aelves make for a really big and juicy target, so I could cut 5 kings for a Plagueclaw and field them as a unit of 10 for big buffs. In my opinion just put as many kings as you can. If you even touch them, loads will die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LLC Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 28 minutes ago, Avvien said: I don't actually have any chaos warriors handy. The idea for the drones was that they'd give me some speed, a bit of range, and even bonus mortal wounds since Harbinger has Daemon keyword - But for a list without them, I have enough Blightkings to field something like; Harbinger of Decay Chaos Sorcerer Lord Lord of Plagues 10x Chaos Marauders 5x Putrid Blightkings 5x Putrid Blightkings 5x Putrid Blightkings Again, his Witch Aelves make for a really big and juicy target, so I could cut 5 kings for a Plagueclaw and field them as a unit of 10 for big buffs. Right so, put +1 to hit against order on your general, HoD, run him with the kings. You have a 4+,5++, 2 to hit, 5s and 6s cause D6 attacks an woundsing on 3s. You can literally 1 shot his 60 w your 15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowgra Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 The lord of plague is really bad. Max out kings and you are good to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avvien Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 What about the Chaos Sorcerer Lord? 160 does seem a little pricy. If I cut the Lord of Plagues -and- the CSL, I could instead field another 10x Chaos Marauders, 10x Plaguebearers, and 1 Herald of Nurgle? Harbinger of Decay Herald of Nurgle 10x Plaguebearers of Nurgle 10x Chaos Marauders 10x Chaos Marauders 5x Putrid Blightkings 5x Putrid Blightkings 5x Putrid Blightkings That's a lot of bodies, then again the Daemonic Power buff from the CSL still looks pretty tempting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Angry Hobbit Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 This is my list I’m thinking of running what you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avvien Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 I've returned following my fight with my friend's DoK army, and I'm here to regale you with the tale. We played the Duality of Death scenario. My friend pulled a fast one on my and changed his army comp at the last minute to: 2 medusa 1 bloodwracked shrine 1 cauldron of blood 30 witch aelves 10 sisters of slaughter While I kept to my: Harbinger of Decay Chaos Sorcerer Lord Lord of Plagues 10x Chaos Marauders 10x Putrid Blightkings 5x Putrid Blightkings The Chaos Sorcerer Lord proved absolutely invalueable. Buffing 10x Blightkings with Daemonic Power while they were already getting buffed by proximity to the Harbinger meant that they took out 18 aelves in the first round of combat, even while they were being buffed by his cauldron and after his medusa had shot at them. My opponents face was priceless. Meanwhile on the other side of the battlefield, the unit of 5 blightkings managed to kill all 10 sisters of slaughter in the first round, his shrine killing one of them in return. My 10 marauders wre caught mid-field against a medusa. The medusa took out 6 of them, and the remaning 4 locked her in combat - the medusa and the remaining marauders didn't manage to hit each other for the remainder of the game. When it was time for his remaining witch aelves to strike back, they hit pretty hard (I had to roll 30 save rolls :|), but the harbinger negated a ton of wounds and I only lost 4 / 10 kings on that side. The Lord of Plagues didn't do anything, instead just holding an objective behind the 10 kings while the CSL held the objective behind the other 5 BK's. With this, victory as assured. In other words, everything you said came true - the Blightkings are beastly, the Lord of Plagues would have been useless in any other scenario, and the Chaos Sorcerer Lord was insanely strong! With this in mind, I think my new 1000 list will be: Harbinger of Decay - 140 Chaos Sorcerer Lord - 160 10x Plaguebearers of Nurgle - 100 10x Chaos Marauders - 60 10x Putrid Blightkings - 360 5x Putrid Blightkings - 180 So many of the scenarios make it essential to field bodies, so this is the only comp I can come up with that seems sensible. Thanks again for the feedback, and please let me know if you spot any obvious ways to improve this list, or to take it towards 1500! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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