Let's chat : Maggotkin of Nurgle

[Xelotath]

56 minutes ago, smucreo said:

@Killax Yep! Bell and Flail! Whatever gives me maximum melee output while keeping the movement support since I plan on keeping the nurgle clock on 5. My list really tries to squeeze value out of almost every unit, which I feel is the way to go considering the point increases.

Cool list! Although can I be a little controversial here? I feel the Drones won't reliably do enough unless their locus is activated, which seems hard to mantain in this list unless you keep them tied to your GUO. If you don't want to lose mobility I'd focus on allowing them to roam free with some hero or just grabbing something else that does more for you.

EDIT: Chaos Knights for example could be cool.

Yeah I agree with you. I was also mulling swapping them for a Rotbringer Sorcerer and a unit of Marauders. Although the knights would provide nice mobility and some awesome conversion oppurtunities. Thanks for the idea!

[Tasman]

moved commentr

[sal4m4nd3r]

Not to derail the current topic.. but I am having an internal struggle here. The glotkin and harbinger debate that I have been having even before the book came out. Is the glotkin good enough without his command ability to warrant a space in a list?

If you take him as the general, is his command ability good enough where it off sets no command trait and also no harbinger bubble? Im not convinced either way. 

 

 

[shadowgra]

2 minutes ago, Tasman said:

I only see 6mortal units. You need 7. Sayl doesn't count, nor do the plague boys.

Ye with my suggestion they would be 7 (you need 7+hero). I guess i would split kings, don't really like the uber unit.

Don't understand what do u mean with plague boys.

[Tasman]

Just now, shadowgra said:

Ye with my suggestion they would be 7 (you need 7+hero). I guess i would split kings, don't really like the uber unit.

Don't understand what do u mean with plague boys.

I deleted my comment.... I read it wrong. Plagueboys=plaguebearers

[BobbyB]

2 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

Not to derail the current topic.. but I am having an internal struggle here. The glotkin and harbinger debate that I have been having even before the book came out. Is the glotkin good enough without his command ability to warrant a space in a list?

If you take him as the general, is his command ability good enough where it off sets no command trait and also no harbinger bubble? Im not convinced either way. 

 

 

take him with Archaon and have both command abilities! I'd love to run that list one day

[shadowgra]

Just now, sal4m4nd3r said:

Not to derail the current topic.. but I am having an internal struggle here. The glotkin and harbinger debate that I have been having even before the book came out. Is the glotkin good enough without his command ability to warrant a space in a list? And if he is.. is he resilient enough to take without the aid of the harbingers bubble? and without that bubble.. those blightkings lose a HUGE defensive buff.

 

 

Personally i would never play glottkin as general with mortals, while daemons benefits from his spell and command much harder. For example drones go to +3 attacks, BK to +1. And marauders will be without the 5++.

So imho if you want to go with him as general or you go for plague monks bomb (going to 2 wounds and +2 attacks each is huge) or with plaguebearers for super tarpit party.

That being said i don't think he is weak but there are better choices (as general)

Regarding plaguetouched with Harbinger he is better than before thanks to extra spell and change to his bravery ability. However at 420 you could purchase 10 BK and have 100 points extra. I mean it's really a heart choice, also because he doesn't do that much in combat. Also without a huge horde of marauders he is simply not worth it at all.

I would give him a 6- in both roles. There are better choices than him both at general and with harbinger imho.

[sal4m4nd3r]

1 minute ago, shadowgra said:

Personally i would never play glottkin as general with mortals, while daemons benefits from his spell and command much harder. For example drones go to +3 attacks, BK to +1. And marauders will be without the 5++.

So imho if you want to go with him as general or you go for plague monks bomb (going to 2 wounds and +2 attacks each is huge) or with plaguebearers for super tarpit party.

That being said i don't think he is weak but there are better choices (as general)

Regarding plaguetouched with Harbinger he is better than before thanks to extra spell and change to his bravery ability. However at 420 you could purchase 10 BK and have 100 points extra. I mean it's really a heart choice, also because he doesn't do that much in combat. Also without a huge horde of marauders he is simply not worth it at all.

I would give him a 6- in both roles. There are better choices than him both at general and with harbinger imho.

And this is what hurts because I LOVE the model and it is probably to best paintjob I have ever done.  

For 80 points more you get the EGUO beatstick and can have the harbinger buffing the blight cyst..

 

[Yeled]

38 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

And this is what hurts because I LOVE the model and it is probably to best paintjob I have ever done.  

For 80 points more you get the EGUO beatstick and can have the harbinger buffing the blight cyst..

 

I feel your pain. I think the Glottkin is a great model, a great character, with really fun rules...but he's just not ideal in most lists at 420 points. I wish they had tweaked him slightly to make him a more than solid option so I could justify picking him up. As is I can't.

On the basis that I probably won't use the Glottkin, I actually picked up a free standing Ethrac Glott model to proxy in for my Nurgle Sorcerer, since I hate the finecast sorcerer. I'm looking forward to putting it on a base and painting it up.

[Tasman]

11 hours ago, Auretious Taak said:

What really annoys me about this thread is people having a whinge about how contagion points don't do enough for the army or how they need to be modified in x, y, z ways to make them viable and make summoning a useful option for the army outside of the Feculent Gnarlmaws which bring so much utility to the army competitively, and thematically have you spreading the Garden of Nurgle far and wide. It is how it is, accept it, move on and lets actually discuss how we can use it beneficially.

The most important factor of the entire game is mobility.

The contagion points allow us to in effect have units in reserve to be summoned in, in a very 40k-esque deep strike manner without imbalancing the army in comparison to all other armies out there because we still have to pay the points for whatever we summon. This is not different to any other army with summoning abilities out there. So why the whinging and in some cases rage? If you don't want to put points aside to summon, do something else with your army, there are plenty of options.

Summoning for us happens at the END of the Movement Phase and summoned units need to be 9" away from any enemy units but also wholly within 12" of either a Feculent Gnarlmaw OR a Nurgle Hero. Considering the variety of resilient or fast moving Nurgle heroes at our disposal, it is very easy to be able to reach out to any point on the board in the first turn. Because you don't have to identify what your reinforcement pool is being used for (please correct me if I'm wrong here, if so it doesn't change the point, you just have a more tailored list) the flexibility can be surprising. People were saying how 5 Plague Bearers are next to useless, but this is not the case. There are near limitless tactical applications for such a unit and it gets down to so many factors it boggles the mind, but if you  can't conceive of simple things like bubble wrapping small targets, blocking off key areas/objectives/sniping isolated characters or artillery, then you need to go out and play more games and expand your tactical (turn by turn, phase by phase) and strategic (overall battle) thinking.  One interesting thing is if you put 220 points aside, and you also include a Horticulous Slimax in your army, once he dies, you can re-summon him and because he is a new Horticulous Slimax, his one use ability to place a free Feculent Gnarlmaw can be used again. If you were to add 20 more points that's 20 Plague bearers instead yet still leaves you with a very solid 1760 points of army on the field. People wanting to spam the Feculent Gnarlmaws and looking at the Menagerie Battalion, that costs 240points...why not just use 220points to summon in another Horticulous Slimax later in the game and not be forced to add an extra 320points in 3 beasts and the Battalion costs? 320points gets us a lot of extra units and killing power.

Some people view reinforcement points as having to always be spent entirely, but again depending on the tactical situation, summoning in things that will result in not all the reinforcement points being utilised by battles end can be more beneficial to us. Dropping in a Poxbringer Herald  on an extreme flank well away from enemy units but in view of a unit of Plaguebearers on the other side of the field allows him to unleash his eruptive infestation to drop D3 mortal wounds on key enemies without being exposed to  unnecessary risk closer to the enemy.  If you've put 220points aside, the 100 points left limits your options to a beast or some nurglings or some heralds which may or may not be useful, and will in some cases leave excess points behind. I'm not sure if you can charge in the same turn as you were summoned (clarrification would be grand) but we can summon in a unit of Plague Drones and with army buffs, those things, despite being 9" away on deployment are virtually guaranteed a first turn charge when they arrive. i personally wouldn't push the 340points GUO summation though, they are just hands down better on the field and in a 2,000point game having only 1660points on the field is twitch inducing at times.


Outside of summoning, the Gutrot Spume+Putrid Blightkings 300point combo or the Nurgling Unit at 100 points minimum gives us the same effect as summoning. People who are looking at taking Gutrot Spume and 5 PBK's could equally just set a few hundred points aside for a deepstrike summonation but with flexibility depending on what you need for the battle at hand and also recover some points to be sunk back into the army as a whole, or for more risky moves, stick with Gutrot and co and then be able to summon reinforcements to their aid to boot. A unit of Plague Drones summoned near Spume and friends could be particularly nasty.

What are people's OBJECTIVE THOUGHTS on summoning. Are you considering dropping points into it or are you just going to spam all the Feculent Gnarlmaws ever whilst you have the contagion points to and not set points aside for summoning?
 

For the time being, I'm going with trees, lots of  'em.

[sal4m4nd3r]

22 minutes ago, Yeled said:

I feel your pain. I think the Glottkin is a great model, a great character, with really fun rules...but he's just not ideal in most lists at 420 points. I wish they had tweaked him slightly to make him a more than solid option so I could justify picking him up. As is I can't.

On the basis that I probably won't use the Glottkin, I actually picked up a free standing Ethrac Glott model to proxy in for my Nurgle Sorcerer, since I hate the finecast sorcerer. I'm looking forward to putting it on a base and painting it up.

I've seen people people buy the glotkin box, use ethrac as a RS, Otto as the a LoP and ghurkk as a GUO. 

 

They did fix his horrific opponent rule so now it's on 2d6. That pairs well with plaguetouched warband. Stack that with the palsy demon spell (1 or 3 debuffs) and that could be really good actually. 

Might be fun to use a huge blob of marauders with the plaguetouchedwarband (kicking back mortals) and buffed with blades of putrification (sic). All of a sudden with a possible +1 to hit from the marauders they kick back mortals and deal mortals on 5s.

 

go a  step further and glotkin as the general.. 80 attacks doing mortals on 5s....

[shadowgra]

you can achieve the same with knights+lord on daemon mount and they are more mobile and deal more damage ^^

anyway glott is not that bad now. he could find his place in some akward builds.... maybe

[Slave2Chaos]

10 hours ago, Steve Rose said:

imho the drones are not getting many buffs in this list. But this does seem solid the blight cyst is expensive but worth it imo.

So the reason I included them was to get some extra maneuverability. The ability to fly over enemy lines and get to back field objectives/character.

[Aaron Schmidt]

On 1/16/2018 at 4:31 AM, Turragor said:

I see  what you mean in some respects - a unit that doesn't come on R 1 to R 3 may have less impact. At the same time an objective scoring unit kept safe until R 4 can also be totally worth it. So I'm not sure you need a discount. It depends what you do with the unit.

There have been some good points in this conversation, but this is where my mind has been. I think its a tactic you can elect to employ, or not. I don't feel that not summoning is robbing Nurgle of a big part of their Allegiance ability. If you do design a list around late game summoning and practice with it I think you could have some interesting options. 

[Turragor]

3 hours ago, Aaron Schmidt said:

There have been some good points in this conversation, but this is where my mind has been. I think its a tactic you can elect to employ, or not. I don't feel that not summoning is robbing Nurgle of a big part of their Allegiance ability. If you do design a list around late game summoning and practice with it I think you could have some interesting options. 

I think that's really the best thing with our new tome and the new summoning. You will get points during the game. You will have trees up. So summoning a bit later isn't a gamble on a casting roll with a wizard (who might actually have been focused and is now dead).

I am thinking of trialling always having points for  5 or 10 plaguebearers in reserve to see what I can do. Before writing summoning off.  And maybe there's a sweet spot with more off the board - even 5 or 600 points. If you have contagion built up you can get a lot of tools for certain emergent problems. In a way that a fixed list  can't. 

Think of it this way - if death had "graveyard" scenery they placed like wildwoods or gnarlmaws that summoned would summoning be considered so useless now? I think not. Because I think there are some smart things you can do with that. 

Like place them on objectives. Your opponent had to constantly crowd them even if you never summon just in case.  

 

[Aaron Schmidt]

5 minutes ago, Turragor said:

Like place them on objectives. Your opponent had to constantly crowd them even if you never summon just in case.  

I was considering this very thing, motivate enemy units to hang around your trees and take the occasional mortal wound. That isn't a hefty tax, but watch some players sweat that all day long. 

[Peegee]

Hi ! After lots of list building I'm finally going the "rule of cool but competitive" way ^^

I have two options I'm hesitating with :

LIST 1

Allegiance: Nurgle

Leaders
Great Unclean One (340)
Great Unclean One (340)
Rotigus (340)
Sorcerer (120) - could keep points for summoning

Battleline
30 x Plaguebearers (320)
30 x Plaguebearers (320)
10 x Chaos Marauders (60)

Battalions
Thricefold Befoulment (160)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 124
 

LIST 2

Allegiance: Nurgle

Leaders
Great Unclean One (340)
Rotigus (340)
The Glottkin (420)

Battleline
30 x Plaguebearers (320)
30 x Plaguebearers (320)
10 x Plaguebearers (120)

Reinforcement Points (140)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 120

I have the feeling that LIST 2 is stronger, The Glottking buffing the whole army and especially giving PB extra resistance.

What's your opinion ?

Thx guys !
 

[sal4m4nd3r]

1 hour ago, Peegee said:

Hi ! After lots of list building I'm finally going the "rule of cool but competitive" way ^^

I have two options I'm hesitating with :

LIST 1

Allegiance: Nurgle

Leaders
Great Unclean One (340)
Great Unclean One (340)
Rotigus (340)
Sorcerer (120) - could keep points for summoning

Battleline
30 x Plaguebearers (320)
30 x Plaguebearers (320)
10 x Chaos Marauders (60)

Battalions
Thricefold Befoulment (160)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 124
 

LIST 2

Allegiance: Nurgle

Leaders
Great Unclean One (340)
Rotigus (340)
The Glottkin (420)

Battleline
30 x Plaguebearers (320)
30 x Plaguebearers (320)
10 x Plaguebearers (120)

Reinforcement Points (140)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 120

I have the feeling that LIST 2 is stronger, The Glottking buffing the whole army and especially giving PB extra resistance.

What's your opinion ?

Thx guys !
 

My general thoughts are that the first is more fun, while the second is stronger. I would love to try out the 3xGUO befowlment but dont have $450 to drop and my local GW has banned the use of the old sculpt as GUO. The merging f4rt beams would be hilarious to use! haha Yes im 32 going on 7.

For an interesting shakeup.. you could drop the sorcerer and the maruaders and make one of those GUO an EGUO. He is simply put.. a beatstick. He deals so much damage its insane. 

 

edit: REALLY? f4rt is a word that is censored LOL

[Spiny Norman]

On 18.1.2018 at 12:16 PM, smucreo said:

I have to say I agree with almost everything you said. In fact the list I posted a few days ago (attached for those that didn't see it, so everyone knows what I mean) runs almost exactly the things you mentioned. I do think you forgot to mention Rustfang though, it's great on someone like Lord of Afflictions, who can offer great value as a way to activate your locus on the drones and essentially giving them -1 extra rend on all their attacks too. 

Personally, I feel that we have good artifacts for a variety of things, and it really depends on what the local meta is. I, for one, am running Witherstave because I face lots of armies with bonuses on the 6+, so making them reroll their attacks is a nice annoyance.

 

 

 

I really like your list.  Great variety of models. I'm myself searching the optimal list and got myself a package of Blightskings and all the needed colors (colors made it pretty pricey, I have to say).

 

I just wonder what use the BK's have in your army? Mainly if you think 5 BK's at 2k points are enough to threaten something ? Do 5 BK's make a decent enough hammer?

[shadowgra]

12 minutes ago, Spiny Norman said:

Do 5 BK's make a decent enough hammer

No. Hardly a 4 Move with no rend unit can do enough damage to pay itself back with only 5 men in it.

[smucreo]

Honestly they are there because I wanted to include them, I needed to fill battleline and I had enough points freed up for them to be included. For 120 I could have included 10 bearers, it's just that I don't think they are that good for the cost unless you run 30 in a unit and most importantly I didn't want to go for even more bearers if I could avoid it haha

They also have some possible synergy with the Lord of Afflictions and become really good when buffed by either the GUO or the Sorcerer (although admittedly I'd rather use the buffs on other units). For their current cost point they are my go-to when I have spare points since 160 is so low for what they offer. They may be the only underpriced unit in Nurgle right now in my opinion (not that I'm complaining of course!). 

[Spiny Norman]

1 minute ago, smucreo said:

Honestly they are there because I wanted to include them, I needed to fill battleline and I had enough points freed up for them to be included. For 120 I could have included 10 bearers, it's just that I don't think they are that good for the cost unless you run 30 in a unit and most importantly I didn't want to go for even more bearers if I could avoid it haha

They also have some possible synergy with the Lord of Afflictions and become really good when buffed by either the GUO or the Sorcerer (although admittedly I'd rather use the buffs on other units). For their current cost point they are my go-to when I have spare points since 160 is so low for what they offer. They may be the only underpriced unit in Nurgle right now in my opinion (not that I'm complaining of course!). 

BK's are by far the best Troops on the book. But I don't want to spam 30 of them, I like my list like yours: wide and colorful.

 

But here's a thought:

 

Throw the LoAfflictions away, get a demon prince....he's a mage. So you can drop the Poxwalker or the Sorcerer. So you free 180 points and could upgrade the BK's to a 10 men unit, which should be a decent enough hammer.

 

@shadowgra:

He got the GUO with the bell and potentially could accerlate with the Trees. Without Gutrod there's no other way for BK's anyways.

 

Allegiance: Chaos

Leaders
Great Unclean One (340)
Daemon Prince of Nurgle (160)
Poxbringer Herald of Nurgle (120)

Battleline
30 x Plaguebearers (320)
30 x Plaguebearers (320)
10 x Putrid Blightkings (320)
- Nurgle Battleline

Units
6 x Plague Drones (400)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 159
 

 

 

20 sparepoints, but whatever.

Having 10x BK's seems like a bigger threat for dishing out pain.

[smucreo]

Daemon Prince is only a wizard for Tzeentch. With Nurgle it gains a 3+ save. What I was thinking was: If you feel 5 BK are not that good you can always change the rotbringer part of the army, going for Lord of Afflictions -> Daemon Prince; Rotbringers Sorcerer -> Chaos Sorcerer, Blight Kings -> 10 Chaos Warriors seems cool too. This is off the top of my head but I think it should fit the 2k mark.

[shadowgra]

5 Blightkings are cool for tanking ,(21 w) and not for damage. By far the best battleline in the book

[Spiny Norman]

But do you really need another tanking next to 60 Plaguebearers and a GUO?