Arkiham Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 28 minutes ago, wayniac said: I 100% agree. I think they should have just not allowed Contagion Points (and Blood Tithe) to summon greater daemons, and waived the reinforcement points. It could have been a way to make summoning more worthwhile. As it stands IMHO summoning is even worse in Maggotkin because you need to not only accumulate enough Contagion Points to summon but also set aside points. The combination is almost never going to be worth it. They need to get the contagion points to do more . They could have had spells which gain potency the higher it goes, a unit/hero/guo which gets more dangerous the higher it goes. Like epidimus. Then it would become a balancing act... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurrilino Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 21 hours ago, sal4m4nd3r said: You have to pay reinforcement points. The words "added to your army" are specifically used and this triggers the reinforcement points cost mandate in GHB. Pg. 61 states a new Key word. "Summon Demons of Nurgle" right at the first line. Following by the sentence "You can summon units of Nurgle Demons to the battlefield if you collect enough contagion points. If they would intend to make you pay Contagion and Reinforcement points they would say so. The usual summoning rules apply for the mortals and units without the keyword Demons though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeled Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Kurrilino said: Pg. 61 states a new Key word. "Summon Demons of Nurgle" right at the first line. Following by the sentence "You can summon units of Nurgle Demons to the battlefield if you collect enough contagion points. If they would intend to make you pay Contagion and Reinforcement points they would say so. The usual summoning rules apply for the mortals and units without the keyword Demons though. Yes, but the GH2017 rules for Reinforcement Points in Matched Play clearly states: "Each time a unit is added to an army during a battle, or a destroyed unit is returned to play, you must first subtract the number of points the unit would cost from your pool of reinforcement points, unless noted otherwise. Things that do not have a points cost do not cost any reinforcement points, and can be added to your army 'for free'." Emphasis is mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injuryprone Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 How annoying would it be to fight this at 1000 points? I know I won't kill much...but I'll never move. GUO Festus 3 Toads 3 Toads 10 Plaguebearers 10 Plaguebearers Edit for a not as boring version: GUO 3 Toads 3 Toads 5 Blightkings 5 Blightkings 1 Beast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurrilino Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Yeled said: Yes, but the GH2017 rules for Reinforcement Points in Matched Play clearly states: "Each time a unit is added to an army during a battle, or a destroyed unit is returned to play, you must first subtract the number of points the unit would cost from your pool of reinforcement points, unless noted otherwise. Things that do not have a points cost do not cost any reinforcement points, and can be added to your army 'for free'." Emphasis is mine. Well, someone could argue that the special rule for summoning "Demons of Nurgle" is a note. I guess GW will answer this sooner than later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurglesFirstChosen Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Kurrilino said: Well, someone could argue that the special rule for summoning "Demons of Nurgle" is a note. I guess GW will answer this sooner than later. There are lots of abilities in the game that summon units in one way or another that need to be paid for - and the rules for these dont say these have to be paid for either. The blanket rule says reinforcements of any kind need be paid in matched play points unless otherwise stated. Unless otherwise stated doesn’t mean an omission of mentioning matched play points. I don’t think this will be something that’s faq’d as it isn’t necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Yeah I doubt for Matched play they have other intentions. Having said that you can offcourse summon the Blight Trees for free which leads to massive options to summon others and more contagion points and board control. So I believe very much that GW designed it so you will focus on the Ferulent Gnarlmaw first and then maby summon a unit or two but not much more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turragor Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 What's the core motivation in trying to make summoning take armies over 2,000 points in matched play? I don't see why people want that advantage (or disadvantage if they get no rolls off during a game). It seems like a complete wild card for balance and I know the main complaint people level at AoS (GW in general) is their rules and balance application. I think better balance is what makes matched play fun. Summoning throws it all out of joint. For example, you can't say "summoning opponent will average X points added over 5 rounds so his units cost 20% more to begin with"... The only way to balance that kind of thing properly is to have the army start off at a matching, set point cost and then the summoned parts of the army arrive onto the board each round - but isn't that exactly how summoning works right now? Contagion points move it more towards a more reliable way (no dice roll) that's a bit more thematic to get the stuff on the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 6 hours ago, Kurrilino said: Pg. 61 states a new Key word. "Summon Demons of Nurgle" right at the first line. Following by the sentence "You can summon units of Nurgle Demons to the battlefield if you collect enough contagion points. If they would intend to make you pay Contagion and Reinforcement points they would say so. The usual summoning rules apply for the mortals and units without the keyword Demons though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smucreo Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 While summoning limitless stuff would be impossible to balance, I do feel that mechanics like summoning via contagion points should offer discounts on the guys you summon. Say something like a 10-20% discount. For a unit that will be coming later in the game (specially the bigger ones) I feel that would be better balanced and make summoning lists way more viable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turragor Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 36 minutes ago, smucreo said: While summoning limitless stuff would be impossible to balance, I do feel that mechanics like summoning via contagion points should offer discounts on the guys you summon. Say something like a 10-20% discount. For a unit that will be coming later in the game (specially the bigger ones) I feel that would be better balanced and make summoning lists way more viable. I see what you mean in some respects - a unit that doesn't come on R 1 to R 3 may have less impact. At the same time an objective scoring unit kept safe until R 4 can also be totally worth it. So I'm not sure you need a discount. It depends what you do with the unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Yeah as mentioned since the Contagion point system was spoiled I'm not really a large fan of this variant of summonning. Having said that I don't really know why Nurgle players in general want this aspect in their system. Summonning is fun but at the same time the rules for it never really are fleshed out well in this edition of Age of Sigmar. However I would be a fan of a 40k deep strike approach but even more resticted. My personal approach would have been to keep it as a form of casting but it being unable to dispell (40k Daemon summonning style) while at the same time limit the maximum ammount of units summoned to 25% in Matched play. For the simple reason that 40k's unit approach doesn't really work well and then forces armies to be created with as much cheap units on table and expensive units in reserves... In any case, there is still an option to do it but the focus is on Ferulent Gnarlmaw's first anyway. As a Khorne player I can't summon stuff when I'm playing mono-Khorne unless I have 8 Blood Tithe points which can only be accumulated IF there are 8 units destroyed. With this in mind, remember it could always be worse So what I would currently do is not focus on summonning much except for summonning a great grip of Ferulent Gnarlmaw's. The multitude of them makes fighting on your side of the table a big hassle for your opponent. In addition it adds a tactical depth which I think is really neat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralZero Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Contagion points could have been a nice addition if they added some influence on casting spells: for exemple, for X contagion points, add Y to your casting dice rolls. Contagion point then become a way to reliabily cast spells. The more you have, the more powerful is your magy. When a cast value is 7, with (enough) contagions giving for example a +3 your casting become almost auto cast at casting value 4!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smucreo Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Yeah for now just getting the trees is enough. On a different topic, are you planning on making new allegiance cards for Nurgle @Killax? They are great, my friend uses the ones for Seraphon haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawntreader561 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Hi all, just a very basic question as I still find the chaos alligences confusing, if I chose maggotkin can my three battle lines be: 10 blight kings 10 blight kings 30 plague bearers thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasman Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, Dawntreader561 said: Hi all, just a very basic question as I still find the chaos alligences confusing, if I chose maggotkin can my three battle lines be: 10 blight kings 10 blight kings 30 plague bearers thanks! Yes. It's not alliance Maggotkin....... it's Nurgle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayniac Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, Dawntreader561 said: Hi all, just a very basic question as I still find the chaos alligences confusing, if I chose maggotkin can my three battle lines be: 10 blight kings 10 blight kings 30 plague bearers thanks! Yes as long as everything in your army has the nurgle keyword. Re: summoning I think it's just one of those things that can never properly be balanced because there will always be the crowd whining that it's "not fair" you can do something that they can't. Plus the general mindset that getting something for free is vile and Evil and must never be allowed in a truly competitive game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughwyeth Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 4 minutes ago, Dawntreader561 said: Hi all, just a very basic question as I still find the chaos alligences confusing, if I chose maggotkin can my three battle lines be: 10 blight kings 10 blight kings 30 plague bearers thanks! I believe it's only traits, artefacts and spells which are limited to the three sub-factions of Nurgle/Magottkin. Otherwise it's Nurgle (including slaves to darkness and pestilens- you could have marauders as battleline for example). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turragor Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 1 minute ago, wayniac said: the crowd whining that it's "not fair" you can do something that they can't. Plus the general mindset that getting something for free is vile and Evil and must never be allowed in a truly competitive game. That's not really the mindset from most is it? Personally I'd love something thematic representing summoning. Maybe a tweak to the way you deploy units (summoned from a preset points pool) would make the summoning function more popular. I mean, we're not trying to balance mindsets but units, armies, abilities and probabilities. What people think doesn't matter, if it was balanced it'd already be in. I don't think you can say that the opposite of what you claim those against summoning think - that is "getting something for free is vile and Evil and must never be allowed in a truly competitive game." - is true can you? Is getting something for free just and good in a competitive game? (this is a bit OT and has been done to death tbh) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 43 minutes ago, smucreo said: On a different topic, are you planning on making new allegiance cards for Nurgle @Killax? They are great, my friend uses the ones for Seraphon haha Yeah certainly! Even had some PMs with Arkiham about it. But I still need to pick up the book but do think I will be able to flesh out the V1.0. this weekend. Luckily there arn't that much Spells/Artefacts to cover! Now what I do wonder about is if people prefer the 'Infect symbol' on the cycle cards over usual numbers: The reason I chose for this was to keep them significantly different from Command Trait and Artefact cards which will have the regular numbers (so you can use them to randomly generate them too). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smucreo Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 This look super cool as they are, maybe numbers would be more easy to understand at first glance but as you said it keeps them different. Glad to know you had plans to update the cards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 8 minutes ago, smucreo said: This look super cool as they are, maybe numbers would be more easy to understand at first glance but as you said it keeps them different. Glad to know you had plans to update the cards! Yeah no worries! There is more than sufficient art for Nurgle from WFB, AoS and 40K that can be used here, which is always the prime issue with other non-Chaos card designs. Even for Seraphon there was too much that didn't fit the AoS vibe and for Fyreslayers I had to make due with some WFB designs also. In general I'll put a link here too when it's all finished, done and printable. Shouldn't thake too long! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedus Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Tasman said: Really excited to try out, GUO Rotigus Daemon Prince Pox bringer 30 Plaguebearers 30 Plaguebearers 10 Plaguebearers 6 Plague Drones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawntreader561 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Tasman said: Yes. It's not alliance Maggotkin....... it's Nurgle. Ok so my declaraed alligence is nurgle but I can use traits artifacts and spells from the new maggotkin book? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 43 minutes ago, smucreo said: Glad to know you had plans to update the cards! Said this weekend, will be tonight. Such an awesome book btw! I'm so happy that GW thakes their time for the Age of Sigmar battletomes. Because the 40k Codex are very functional but also lack the vibe the Battletomes have. Logical also in a way because AoS is much more mono army focused, especially since more and more Allegiances are available. Now Im even tempted to get the DoT one, though I have 0 plans to play them. Khorne is where my passion is and Nurgle is the coolest neighbour of the Chaos Gods 5 minutes ago, Dawntreader561 said: Ok so my declaraed alligence is nurgle but I can use traits artifacts and spells from the new maggotkin book? Big fat YES! Keep in mind though that declaring an Allegiance does mean at least X points is models with that Keyword. So you will commonly use a lot of Maggotkin army entries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.