The "logic" of the AoS setting?

[Silchas_Ruin]

Seriusly, have you read any AoS fluff? You keep saying its just stupid and makes no sense, but nothing you said so far makes me think you actually looked at it.

Seems to me you are stuck on AoS is stupid. You could not care less how they are worldbuilding AoS, they come out with anything thats not cookiecutter generic fantasy and its stupid. Actually looking into how it works with AoS is not needed as long as you get to tell everyone that AoS is stupid.

[Menkeroth]

3 minutes ago, Silchas_Ruin said:

Seriusly, have you read any AoS fluff? You keep saying its just stupid and makes no sense, but nothing you said so far makes me think you actually looked at it.

 

It seems he didn't read anything at all.

3 minutes ago, Silchas_Ruin said:

Seems to me you are stuck on AoS is stupid. You could not care less how they are worldbuilding AoS, they come out with anything thats not cookiecutter generic fantasy and its stupid. Actually looking into how it works with AoS is not needed as long as you get to tell everyone that AoS is stupid.

 

this. Apparently it was from the start, and I wonder why come here to say AoS makes no sense if this is something followers of the so-called "9th age" will gladly hear? They surely developed already a brilliant and coherent world, didn't they?

[Grimma]

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[DeadlySarcasm]

2 hours ago, Grimma said:

It's fine for you to like it! The Fox-Fur Booze-Fighters are going to be awesome - these lifestyle furries accessorize their victorian-era garb with fox ears and tails while they ride their ear-splitting motorcycles in an alcohol fueled rage. Sharpened teeth, motorcycle chains, and barstools rain down on anyone who stands in their way!

This isn't really conducive to a healthy discussion, please keep hyperbole to a minimum and try and keep this topic on point as much as possible.

Cheers

[Grimma]

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[DeadlySarcasm]

5 minutes ago, Grimma said:

You don't think calling someone out for sarcasm when your username is 'Deadly Sarcasm' is a little ironic?  

Sarcasm is fine, just be mindful you aren't being inflammatory when you post.

Cheers

[Silchas_Ruin]

Sorry for being part of going off topic guys. This was a interesting tread, lets try to get it back on topic.

Been lots of talk in this tread about AoS being a totally open world where you can do anything. Which is not wrong, but not sure its totally right either. 

Yes the way its set up you can pretty much do anything. But seems to me like they are slowly building up and grounding the central areas of the world. Mainly around the realm gates, its still a huge area and its not done yet. But its being filled in. 

In a few years I think it will look like old maps. Central areas that are mapped out and the rest filled in with "Here be dragons". Which would give a steady base for the people who want that, while those who like to fill in everything themself can just place themself outside the main area. To me it looks like thats what they are building to and I'm hoping its not just wishfull thinking on my part. 

[Killax]

Absolutely, they are building it up and the cornerstone of AoS' limit's/logic is the Warhammer Fantasy Magic Lores given form in Realms/Planets/Universes. However within those, because they are completely magical aswell, logic, such as we see in 'historical fantasy' or 'sci-fi' does not need to apply in the same way as we see in Tolkiens (Lord of the Rings) work or even that of Shirows (Ghost in the Shell).
What I think some are secretly looking for is that AoS would suddenly fill in that realm of Fantasy that draws it's inspiration from history. As much as some might like that (me included) Games Workshop simply said did not choose to do this for Age of Sigmar.

My moral remains, logic is what the Narrative tells you. If you deem the Wizard of Oz illogical Fantasy, you'd be suprised how much illogical Fantasy is out there. From the Disney cartoons and movies to the Dr. Who series. For what it logical is not set by the viewer but by the writer.

I personally don't write, but I do draw. What I used to see when I went to drawing forums is how many seem to focus on the anatomy of your characters. While the whole issue with this is that in many cases ignoring known anatomy creates much more interesting characters. You can't draw an anatomical correct Dragon because we do not have Dragons to check anatomy upon to begin with.
In many ways creating a story works in the same way, especially for Fantasy. You can draw upon historical facts to build up your fantasy story, this doesn't however make it 'logical' or 'better', all it really does is restrict creative output.

So even if someone dislikes Age of Sigmar, don't say you do so because of lack of (historical) logic, as (historical) logic isn't a requirement for literature to begin with.
 

[Menkeroth]

3 hours ago, Killax said:

In many ways creating a story works in the same way, especially for Fantasy. You can draw upon historical facts to build up your fantasy story, this doesn't however make it 'logical' or 'better', all it really does is restrict creative output.

So even if someone dislikes Age of Sigmar, don't say you do so because of lack of (historical) logic, as (historical) logic isn't a requirement for literature to begin with.

 

This. And GW has already drawn inspiration from history, so I am glad they don't want to repeat this and instead draw inspiration from myths.

[Zeratan]

3 hours ago, Menkeroth said:

This. And GW has already drawn inspiration from history, so I am glad they don't want to repeat this and instead draw inspiration from myths.

Especially considering that what they drew from history in WHFB not always worked well (Empire being as divided as HRE despite far more destructive and ruthless foes).

[Zeratan]

Trying to bring it back on tracks I think that beastclaw raiders are a good example of logic in works. Everything about this faction from their weapons and tactics to their culture and the way they deal with other races is dectated by the curse of everwinter.

[Menkeroth]

48 minutes ago, Zeratan said:

Especially considering that what they drew from history in WHFB not always worked well (Empire being as divided as HRE despite far more destructive and ruthless foes).

 

True, it was different for various races, not everything was so well adapted and written, of course. But for a small fantasy planet it was more well than not, I think.

49 minutes ago, Zeratan said:

Trying to bring it back on tracks I think that beastclaw raiders are a good example of logic in works. Everything about this faction from their weapons and tactics to their culture and the way they deal with other races is dectated by the curse of everwinter.

 

Exactly - I love how GW managed to write an amazing fluff for them just because they've made ice and snow themed figures beforehand, maybe with such things in mind, who knows? Currently I think Beastclaws, Flesh eaters and Kharadrons have the best fluff around.

[Grimma]

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[Killax]

Bizare is fantasy. What rarely looks good is enforcing a creative handicap and dictate that as law of logic. 

[Grimma]

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[Killax]

No, it gives you Aelves, Duaradin, Stormcast, Daemons and other non-human creatures. Even a Balrog or Dragon would not excist without unrealistic fantasy.

[Grimma]

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[Menkeroth]

No, there is no difference, especially since they both are structured in their own different way.

[Grimma]

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[Menkeroth]

We don't, because you are blinded by an illusion you gladly believe in basing on nothing that AoS is not consistent and coherent, because it is. 

[BunkhouseBuster]

I'm seeing similar parallels in this discussion of Narrative/Casual playing versus Competitive Play.  Both sides going on, and each convinced they are in the right, and mildly argumentative over semantics and subjective opinions based on the desired experiences and expectations of either party.

The thing is, guys, you are all correct in liking (or not) the setting of Age of Sigmar (or other stories).  Everything that we do and enjoy is affected by our worldview, which is created by our life experiences.  Based on experiences I have had in life, I love the Star Wars universe and just can't stand The Breakfast Club, I like playing with Lego with my step-daughter but not pickup games of Warhammer, and I like writing stories but not dealing with family drama.

Each and every one of us draws from our own personal experiences that help us decide what we like or not, and how we will interact with people or ideas.  In this case, it's in regards to a Fantasy fiction setting.  Just because the novels and other publications have been filling in the corners on the map may not be enough for some people, just as some of us would prefer the world being purposefully vague so we can do our own thing in it, and both are okay to have.

Once of Age of Sigmar has had a few more years under its belt, there will start to be enough content to have a large Wiki full of everything that has happened.  Currently, it is still a new world, which is a prominent aspect of it as a game and setting (whether it is a strength or weakness is entirely subjective).

Anecdote:  I remember when I first learned about 40K playing the Dawn of War PC game series, and being absolutely mesmerized by the game and the setting: these super-human warriors fighting Orks in Space and Daemons that come from the same source as FTL travel.  It all just blew my mind!  I had no idea this setting existed, and I dove in headfirst, and haven't looked back.  I began investing so much time on the Wikis and reading the Codexes (Codices?) and emerged inspired and ready to pick up the hobby.

My point is that Age of Sigmar needs to grow right now before some people can get super-excited for the setting and fluff, and that's okay.  Warhammer 40K has been around for 30+ years (longer than I have been alive!) and has hundreds of publications from dozens of contributing authors.  Age of Sigmar has been around for 2 years and is still growing, its setting has been set, however well-/ill-defined you believe it to be, and it needs time to grow and be nurtured.  If the game continues to do well, GW will keep supporting it and continue to grow it, and seeing how they have been including customers in on playtesting 40K 8th edition and promoting official and fan-made Age of Sigmar Competitive and Narrative events, they might just use our input on deciding what direction the world takes.

So to those of you wanting more from Age of Sigmar, I suggest you just try to enjoy the game and see what happens.  You might be a part of things to come!

And to those of you working to convince others of how great Age of Sigmar is, continue to do so, but keep in mind that other may want things a little bit differently than you, and that's okay.  Keep on enjoying the hobby, as someone enjoying it or something else for different reasons than you won't affect your hobby experience, and help shape Age of Sigmar into something that everyone can enjoy!

[Menkeroth]

8 minutes ago, BunkhouseBuster said:

Anecdote:  I remember when I first learned about 40K playing the Dawn of War PC game series, and being absolutely mesmerized by the game and the setting: these super-human warriors fighting Orks in Space and Daemons that come from the same source as FTL travel.  It all just blew my mind!  I had no idea this setting existed, and I dove in headfirst, and haven't looked back.  I began investing so much time on the Wikis and reading the Codexes (Codices?) and emerged inspired and ready to pick up the hobby.

 

Me too. I guess it's how it must work ideally - inspire and push you forward, letting you develop your tastes and skills. And that's great.

 

9 minutes ago, BunkhouseBuster said:

And to those of you working to convince others of how great Age of Sigmar is, continue to do so, but keep in mind that other may want things a little bit differently than you, and that's okay.  Keep on enjoying the hobby, as someone enjoying it or something else for different reasons than you won't affect your hobby experience, and help shape Age of Sigmar into something that everyone can enjoy!

 

Certainly. Although when people say something and don't prove it, obviously having read nothing on the subject and just willing to troll a little, it's not cool after first twenty minutes.

[Zeratan]

The only thing I can tell is that both @Grimma and @Menkeroth should use more examples and actual analysis rather than throw 'no, you are wrong!' back and forth. Seriously guys it starts to get really annoying.

[Menkeroth]

It's no use anymore as he obviously does not need any enlightenment as he has convinced himself of the opposite long ago. So a lazy friendly "no, you" is all that's left as it hurts no one.

[Grimma]

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