Deathless minions help

[pikachoux]

Can someone help me to clarify how to apply the deathless minions special rule? I understand the rule like this:

1- Opponent have 1 attack and he hits

2- Opponent make the to wound roll

3- I miss my save

4- Opponent say the attack does 3 wounds

5- I roll 3 6+ saves from deathless minions rule. I got 6,2,3. I take 2 wounds.

[Thanatos Ares]

That's correct


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[Gotrek]

Yep. You make a roll for each point of damage you take

[pikachoux]

Thank you for the help. Now i just have to explain that to my friends. They say I only use the 6+ deathless minions save once and if I fail then I take the wouds. You have a FAQ or something that I can show to my friends?

[mmimzie]

Its in the core rules set thier is only one save  in the game and that is the save on your character wheel. 
Look under page 6 of inflicting damage, Deathless minion says when the model suffers a wound or mortal wound. damage only applies wounds or mortal wounds after taking your normal save. As far as i know there is no FAQ on this as the rule state this pretty clearly. 
 

[Gotrek]

The 3rd column on page 3 (carrying over into the first column on page 4) show the step by step of how to resolve combat. 

Hit roll, wound roll, save roll, inflict damage. This is the step where wounds are actually assigned. The assignment of the wounds triggers deathless minion.

[Mohawk_Monkey]

Just so i can clarify this too, in regards to the wight kings infernal standard:

Once all deathless minion saves have been made, if the model is on it's last wound, it receives the 6+ from the standard.

So the question would be; 

In the above scenario 

3. Armour save failed

4. Opponents attack deals 3 wounds

5. Deathless minions save is made on a 6+.

6. 1 wound is saved, 2 wounds go through.

7. The model is on 1 wound and in range of an infernal standard.

8. The infernal standard then gives a 6+ save to each instance where a wound would remove a model? (eg. 2 6+ saves needed to save this model?).

9. 2 6+ saves are miraculously made leaving the model alive on 1 wound?

 

7/8/9 are the ones i'm keen to clarify. so far i've read it as, "if a wound would SLAY a model" the banner comes into effect. Therefore as each of the wounds dealt could potentially SLAY the model, it needs to make 2x 6+ saves to survive?

 

[Gotrek]

Yep. Infernal standard with 1 wound models means you get to make an extra save vs every point of damage in addition to deathless minion. 

[Sception]

Which sounds good, except that a wight king is pretty pricey.  at 120 points, in order for the banner to pay for itself in saved skeletons you need to roll 15 successful saves, which means on average 75ish skittles to start - more than most folks run.  sure you can also get saves from some of your other stuff, but considering you only roll for the very last wound you aren't too likely to get even that far.  and despite how attractive layered saves might seem, deathless minions doesn't exactly help its efficiency, since skittles saved by DM didn't need the banner anyway, so you need even more infantry before it really pans out.  Frankly, unless you're fielding at least two blocks of 40 infantry, i wouldn't even touch it.  At least, not for mechanical reasons, if you have a nice model that can be justification in itself.

But if you ARE fielding enough models that the standard actually matters, suddenly your wight king becomes a target, and, since they have to trade their shield for that standard, that's a pretty squishy target indeed.

[mmimzie]

44 minutes ago, Sception said:

Which sounds good, except that a wight king is pretty pricey.  at 120 points, in order for the banner to pay for itself in saved skeletons you need to roll 15 successful saves, which means on average 75ish skittles to start - more than most folks run.  sure you can also get saves from some of your other stuff, but considering you only roll for the very last wound you aren't too likely to get even that far.  and despite how attractive layered saves might seem, deathless minions doesn't exactly help its efficiency, since skittles saved by DM didn't need the banner anyway, so you need even more infantry before it really pans out.  Frankly, unless you're fielding at least two blocks of 40 infantry, i wouldn't even touch it.  At least, not for mechanical reasons, if you have a nice model that can be justification in itself.

But if you ARE fielding enough models that the standard actually matters, suddenly your wight king becomes a target, and, since they have to trade their shield for that standard, that's a pretty squishy target indeed.

The standard is only if good if you running a true horde list of skels or better yet zombies. 

[pikachoux]

I think I find my answer in the FAQ at the page 5.

Q: When a model/unit has a special saving throw arising from an ability that can be used whenever they suffer a wound or mortal wound, is it taken after normal saves but before damage is determined (i.e. between steps 3 and 4 of the attack sequence)?

A: No, such special saving throws are taken after damage is determined and as each individual wound is allocated to a model that has such a save (see ‘Inflicting Damage’ on the rules sheet). For example, a unit of Phoenix Guard is attacked by a Cannon. The Cannon successfully makes its hit and wound rolls, and the Anointed fail their save roll. The Cannon therefore inflicts D6 wounds in step 4 of the attack sequence. The roll is a 4, inflicting 4 wounds on the Phoenix Guard. The attack sequence is now over, and the wounds are set to be inflicted on the Phoenix Guard. However, the Phoenix Guard’s Witness to Destiny ability means they ignore a wound or mortal wound on a roll of 4 or more, so as each wound is allocated, a dice is rolled, and on a 4 or more it is ignored.

 

[wayniac]

Yep.  And it gets crazier when you do something like add an Abhorrant Ghoul King on Terrorgheist and cast Unholy Vitality, because you have for example a 5+ save to ignore wounds/mortal wounds, and THEN you get Deathless Minions on top of that.

[Mohawk_Monkey]

Cheers, My standard is the general of a path to glory warband at the moment, we're playing 500 pts to start so i took a block of skellies, black knights and the standard. The warband is pretty much deathrattle at the moment for flavour and fun. Its been nice to have but i was weighing up a krell instead (though i cant stick him on  a horsey  ).

[FRoper]

Here is a question: Would we still get the deathless minion ability against Skarabrand's Total Carnage ability as it says, (below) So would we get the save or not???

roll a dice each time Skarbrand

hits a target with the axe Carnage; if the roll is

greater than or equal to the result shown in the

damage table, the hit has caused total carnage. Pick

a model in the target unit; that model immediately

suffers 8 wounds. No saves of any kind can be

taken against total carnage, and abilities that

would prevent or reduce the damage of an

attack are ignored (such as a Herald of Nurgle’s

Disgustingly Resilient ability or a Stonehorn’s

Stone Skeleton) – there’s no escaping the axe’s

wrath! If the roll is less than the result shown in

the table, the hit inflicts one mortal wound on the

target unit instead.

soS

[kozokus]

there’s no escaping the axe’s

wrath!

 

The simple answer is no.

(do you know a spell to resurect a pile of ash?- french d&d player joke)

[Gotrek]

7 hours ago, kozokus said:

there’s no escaping the axe’s

wrath!

 

The simple answer is no.

(do you know a spell to resurect a pile of ash?- french d&d player joke)

True resurrection

 

On the bright side, a good block of skeletal spearmen on average will kill skarbrand in 2 rounds so that's a thing