stato Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 17 hours ago, Arkanaut Admiral said: Every game I play with my Overlords, I get a little closer to victory. Bad dice rolls continue to hamper me though. This is my latest effort right here: Barak Zilfin ... Total: 1980pts It’s the same list I’ve used before, but with the khemist swapped out for an admiral. However, I’m toying with the idea of taking 3 units of 3 endrinriggers instead, allowing me to take the khemist. I’m playing aggressive because my opponent takes a lot of things to affect my shooting (mirror shield etc.) and I just find myself missing all shots. I was thinking of using the special footnote and the admirals ability to get my Ironclad right across the board, wereby a frigate with the aero fins can deepstrike in to support. If I can take out his lord celestant and fuligators/concussors I think I’ll have it in the bag. Thoughts? Good work sticking with the boats, ignore the naysayers! Nothing more fun than a load of boats on the table, really need to get mine done. With your ziflin movement options and aggressive approach maybe 1x9 Endriggers is worth a try? With a Khemist they are nasty and should be a serious threat to your opponent. If he doesnt deploy carefully his heros are dust, and if he deploys scared then you might be at an advantage on the scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stato Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 9 minutes ago, Aktr said: Hi, I' new here and fairly new to AoS in general - I've only had one proper game do far Anyway to the point I like the idea of a KO army but I'm a bit concerned about a couple of things How many Frigates and Ironclads do people generally field in 2000pts? All my models go into KR cases and I'm worried I'll need a load of cases just for those airships. Does anyone else use KR cases to store there airships? If so how well do they fit in? Also is an army that has Gunhualers as the only airship viable? I've seen that they are not well regarded Cheers Andy Generally 1, as you can see in recent post most people dont stretch too far from the 'default' lists, but it can certainly be fun and you'll still be able to win games, just probably not as many. Gunhaulers have a bad reputation so I dont think anyone has actually explored them properly, with actual games I mean rather than just theory. Might change in the next few months with more Haulers being bought in the new Start Collecting box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djoblo Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 48 minutes ago, stato said: Gunhauler have a bad reputation so I dont think anyone has actually explored them properly, with actual games I mean rather than just theory. Might change in the next few months with more Haulers being bought in the new Start Collecting box. I got two of them the first month of kharadron release. Tried them even before the first meta showed up on forums/community. I try one/two supporting ironclad/frigate. Sadly, the mortal wound is ineffective, enemy just ignore it, contest objective by bypassing gunhauler bubble. Fighting and shooting dmg is anecdotic for 220. Protecting a ironclad/frigate with one isn't working, you need two of them for 440pts to be efficient (or you can take a second ironclad... hard choice)... i played 8-12 games 1000-2000 pts with them the first 6 month, but now there's dust on it. I'd really enjoy to see someone do something I didn't see with gunhauler. Quote How many Frigates and Ironclads do people generally field in 2000pts? All my models go into KR cases and I'm worried I'll need a load of cases just for those airships Tried two frigate, once, wasn’t that bad. Nice speed and protection, but a bit squichy... tried two ironclad, it was really funny. Not that strong, but funny. one of each is playable if you play quick objective alpha strike. Still expensive tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generalchaos34 Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 Im still new to this army but from what I can see its a short range army that suffers from many of its units being over priced (or being generally nerfed, poor thunderers!) and their signature unit, the airship, isnt really all that great for its point value, despite looking utterly amazing. Also endriggers and skywardens are like the only unit I should ever buy. So where do you think they can fix this army without making too many big changes? It almost looks like a sharp point reduction would go a long way to fixing some of the problems they have, as well as upping the armor on the airships. 5+ for a massive ship thats covered in armor? What were they thinking? Stormcast have better armor, STEAMTANKS have better armor. A naked dwarf with a shield has better armor! Edit: Also isn't a bit ironic they decided to make a start collecting set with a lot of the units that no one wants to buy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aezeal Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 34 minutes ago, generalchaos34 said: Im still new to this army but from what I can see its a short range army that suffers from many of its units being over priced (or being generally nerfed, poor thunderers!) and their signature unit, the airship, isnt really all that great for its point value, despite looking utterly amazing. Also endriggers and skywardens are like the only unit I should ever buy. So where do you think they can fix this army without making too many big changes? It almost looks like a sharp point reduction would go a long way to fixing some of the problems they have, as well as upping the armor on the airships. 5+ for a massive ship thats covered in armor? What were they thinking? Stormcast have better armor, STEAMTANKS have better armor. A naked dwarf with a shield has better armor! Edit: Also isn't a bit ironic they decided to make a start collecting set with a lot of the units that no one wants to buy? The point is the airships can deliver the short range shooters into shooting range quite easily. And if you dislike their range it's hard to dislike their damage output when in range. @edit: that isn't ironic.. that is nearly standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erasercrumbs Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 I've seen a few battle reports where a frigate gets mobbed very early and leads to the KO player losing half his army in one combat phase. How often does this actually happen in practice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drofnum Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 14 minutes ago, erasercrumbs said: I've seen a few battle reports where a frigate gets mobbed very early and leads to the KO player losing half his army in one combat phase. How often does this actually happen in practice? With good planning, almost never. I've had it happen one time and it was with a Vanguard wing that just dropped first turn to surround me, which was also poor planning on my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlander86 Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 Hi everyone, new Kharadron Overlords Collector here. Not a player yet as I've yet to play a single game of AoS but once I work my way through the Battleforce box, I'm probably going to get a few games in come April or so. I'm not a particularly competitive dude, I just like seeing my models do cool stuff on the table. I have a few questions though: - The person at the shop kept telling me to go "pure Endrinriggers" and to pick up another 2 boxes of Skyriggers for a 9 man squad of Endrinriggers. Is this the gold standard because looking at the models, the additional pouches for Endrinriggers really sets them apart from Skywardens so I don't think I'd magnetize them. - Kharadron ships are wobbly on their bases. Is their any way of keeping them stable? I am open to 3rd party flight stands. - Speaking of ships, I am planning of doing the "Barak Zilfin" Iron Sky Squadron which consists of 2 Frigates. I love the model but I've read through some of the posts in this thread and they apparently seem overcosted or underperforming. Would it be better for me to just get an Ironclad instead? The GW guy gave me a smirk when I said Barak Zilfin so I imagine there is some cheese involved. I just went with them because I like the Yellow on Sky Blue color scheme of the ships. I'm trying to get the monotonous part of the collection out of the way (painting 3 units of Arkanaut Company....its draining) but I hope to get through them so I can work on the ships which I enjoy a lot more. Hope to post some picture updates soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qaz Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 My ironclad finally feels like a real gunboat next to the Lord Ordinator (and damned terrain). 2+ to hit and firing twice is lovely. Played against Legion of Nagash, although I couldn't kill the skellies unit or Nagash but managed to keep the unit sizes below 10 and sniped out the morghast and necromancer. Won by playing to the objectives (aka sit on objectives) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiremo25 Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 5 hours ago, Badlander86 said: I have a few questions though: - The person at the shop kept telling me to go "pure Endrinriggers" and to pick up another 2 boxes of Skyriggers for a 9 man squad of Endrinriggers. Is this the gold standard because looking at the models, the additional pouches for Endrinriggers really sets them apart from Skywardens so I don't think I'd magnetize them. - Kharadron ships are wobbly on their bases. Is their any way of keeping them stable? I am open to 3rd party flight stands. - Speaking of ships, I am planning of doing the "Barak Zilfin" Iron Sky Squadron which consists of 2 Frigates. I love the model but I've read through some of the posts in this thread and they apparently seem overcosted or underperforming. Would it be better for me to just get an Ironclad instead? The GW guy gave me a smirk when I said Barak Zilfin so I imagine there is some cheese involved. I just went with them because I like the Yellow on Sky Blue color scheme of the ships. I'm trying to get the monotonous part of the collection out of the way (painting 3 units of Arkanaut Company....its draining) but I hope to get through them so I can work on the ships which I enjoy a lot more. Hope to post some picture updates soon. 1)Endrinriggers are KO's melee specialists, combined with the aether-khemist buff they're a beast so if your planning in competitive 2k list you need that much riggers..but theres nothing wrong with getting skywardens as a mobile shooting platforms and objective grabbers..better if you go 9 man endrins and 6 man skywardens if for casual play hey field any combination you like they are both good 2) trust me the stands are wobbly even when glued and has a risk of breaking, go get yourself some clear acrylic rods from ebay or your local craft shops for a stronger stand..i frgot the size but 30-50mm i think? magnetizing them on the default stand wont help..itll just fall of the side and a bit slidy too 3) get an ironclad and do a clown car list, from my experience the iron sky squadron is good for laughs ,but everyone's right, its overcosted and underwhelming ? the extra shot for the 1st battleround aint that much once you actualy play it..and youll want your ark company shooting skyhooks instead of charging..they suck at melee even with the skypikes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qaz Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 8 hours ago, Badlander86 said: - Speaking of ships, I am planning of doing the "Barak Zilfin" Iron Sky Squadron which consists of 2 Frigates. I love the model but I've read through some of the posts in this thread and they apparently seem overcosted or underperforming. Hi! How I see it with Frigates and Ironclads is that they have the "battalion reduce drop cost" built into their points. (~60-100 points) Hence why it's expensive. That being said, you don't want too many ships in your list in the same veins of paying too much for battalion cost. But I'm in the same boat as you, love 'em airships and my regular list runs a gunhauler, a frigate and an ironclad. Play with endrinriggers if you like surgical strikes, play with skywardens if you like guerilla tactics or play with arkanauts if you want to go for overwhelming firepower. Ships are more often than not, your support and shield for your troops: not primary battle unit. Thunderers and gunhaulers are the weaker option in the battletome. The navigator, Brokk and endrinmaster are niche at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stato Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 16 hours ago, generalchaos34 said: Im still new to this army but from what I can see its a short range army that suffers from many of its units being over priced (or being generally nerfed, poor thunderers!) and their signature unit, the airship, isnt really all that great for its point value, despite looking utterly amazing. Also endriggers and skywardens are like the only unit I should ever buy. So where do you think they can fix this army without making too many big changes? It almost looks like a sharp point reduction would go a long way to fixing some of the problems they have, as well as upping the armor on the airships. 5+ for a massive ship thats covered in armor? What were they thinking? Stormcast have better armor, STEAMTANKS have better armor. A naked dwarf with a shield has better armor! Edit: Also isn't a bit ironic they decided to make a start collecting set with a lot of the units that no one wants to buy? Nah, disagree. Skyhooks 24" range, Ironclad 24" range, Thunderers 18", volley gun 18". All that in range and more often than not still wont get charged in the next turn. Pistols are 12" range and get 2 shots so wary anyone who strays close but doesnt wipe us out. We only suffer on range if we are facing another shooting army, as combat armies will always move towards us or the objectives. If you do build a random mish-mash list with our weaker units then yes we suffer against a strong list, but thats true for every faction in AoS. Points wise its very easy to build a KO list that can stand a chance against anything it faces, sure it would be nice if the ships dropped a little but the Ironclad and Frigate have so much utility they wont go down much. Yes they do die, but everything should be able to die (unless its very expensive, 500+) and you just need to use them appropriately. Its not that often my frigate actually dies, most opponents know its damage output and role and so it doesnt attract all the attention unless its being an irritant, which is generally what i use it as to take the heat off my real damage dealers. If you think a KO list should be boats filled with arkanuats flying across the table and jumping out turn 2 then sadly you will suffer as they are not designed to perform well that way, thats not really how the scenarios work (matched play at least, its great fun in Narrative games). You need bodies on the table shooting or holding objectives. Dwarfs in boats cant shoot, and thats what we do best. If you are out of range give the opponent the turn and make them come to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stato Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 29 minutes ago, Qaz said: Hi! How I see it with Frigates and Ironclads is that they have the "battalion reduce drop cost" built into their points. (~60-100 points) Hence why it's expensive. Yes, this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aezeal Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 26 minutes ago, stato said: Nah, disagree. Skyhooks 24" range, Ironclad 24" range, Thunderers 18", volley gun 18". All that in range and more often than not still wont get charged in the next turn. Pistols are 12" range and get 2 shots so wary anyone who strays close but doesnt wipe us out. We only suffer on range if we are facing another shooting army, as combat armies will always move towards us or the objectives. If you do build a random mish-mash list with our weaker units then yes we suffer against a strong list, but thats true for every faction in AoS. Points wise its very easy to build a KO list that can stand a chance against anything it faces, sure it would be nice if the ships dropped a little but the Ironclad and Frigate have so much utility they wont go down much. Yes they do die, but everything should be able to die (unless its very expensive, 500+) and you just need to use them appropriately. Its not that often my frigate actually dies, most opponents know its damage output and role and so it doesnt attract all the attention unless its being an irritant, which is generally what i use it as to take the heat off my real damage dealers. If you think a KO list should be boats filled with arkanuats flying across the table and jumping out turn 2 then sadly you will suffer as they are not designed to perform well that way, thats not really how the scenarios work (matched play at least, its great fun in Narrative games). You need bodies on the table shooting or holding objectives. Dwarfs in boats cant shoot, and thats what we do best. If you are out of range give the opponent the turn and make them come to you. To be fair my wanderers who should be a very shooty army only have a range of 20-22 too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generalchaos34 Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 6 hours ago, Aezeal said: To be fair my wanderers who should be a very shooty army only have a range of 20-22 too... I think the real problem is the gold standard of good shooting right now is kurnoth hunters, who are an extremely hardy platform with exceptional range and amazing damage, all for a reasonable cost (plus they are even deadly in close combat!). Additionally you also have things like Skyfires that have incredible accuracy and wounding potential as well. Combine that all with the fact that both armies get magic support. And those armies aren't even supposed to be primary shooting forces on top of that. I'm actually ok with the shorter range shooting of KO, it adds to their swashbuckling flavor and fortune favors the bold attitude, they just seem to rely too much on single shot weapons like skycannons and drill cannons to do all their heavy lifting against things like unkillable treelords/stardrakes. But at least theres spammed light skyhooks right? Edit: I forgot Raptors, but they really only get one shot and at most they are doing 2 damage, so in all likelyhood they aren't going to massively swing something like a Kurnoths potential 35" range and 18 damage output. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratigo Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 Honestly.... arkanauts are better than kurnouths at shooting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drofnum Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 1 hour ago, stratigo said: Honestly.... arkanauts are better than kurnouths at shooting Quite a bit better in my experience, if you take equal points worth of each. I would also argue that Kurnoth hunters are not at all the gold standard of shooting, not any more. Skyfires and Longstrikes are both better by quite a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djoblo Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 Just now, Drofnum said: Quite a bit better in my experience, if you take equal points worth of each. Yup... Arkanaut Rocks. (1) battleline (2) Rend -2 (3) Buffable! (4) Short shooting Swarm annihilator (5) Damn cute midget legs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myr Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Tomorrow I'll play the first time with the MP rules 2000 points against the new Nagash (no powerplay, for fun and fluff). What do you think about SCE allies: Lord-Ordinator (Army general) 10x Libarators (Hammer&Shield) - they are more tanky then our Arkanauts and will be used as mission point defenders 1 Gryph Hound 1 Gryph Hound The idea was that the hounds will help against the mass of reanimation units around the graveyards with all the KO firepower of the surrounding units Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aezeal Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 On 15-2-2018 at 5:45 PM, generalchaos34 said: I think the real problem is the gold standard of good shooting right now is kurnoth hunters, who are an extremely hardy platform with exceptional range and amazing damage, all for a reasonable cost (plus they are even deadly in close combat!). Additionally you also have things like Skyfires that have incredible accuracy and wounding potential as well. Combine that all with the fact that both armies get magic support. And those armies aren't even supposed to be primary shooting forces on top of that. I'm actually ok with the shorter range shooting of KO, it adds to their swashbuckling flavor and fortune favors the bold attitude, they just seem to rely too much on single shot weapons like skycannons and drill cannons to do all their heavy lifting against things like unkillable treelords/stardrakes. But at least theres spammed light skyhooks right? Edit: I forgot Raptors, but they really only get one shot and at most they are doing 2 damage, so in all likelyhood they aren't going to massively swing something like a Kurnoths potential 35" range and 18 damage output. Kurnoths are tough.. but the shooty version isn't deadly in close combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generalchaos34 Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 2 hours ago, Aezeal said: Kurnoths are tough.. but the shooty version isn't deadly in close combat. still deadlier in close combat that any long range shooting unit should be. plus they have a decent chance to cause mortal wounds on top of that! edit: if you can't tell Kurnoth hunters have touched me in bad ways =P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rokapoke Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 1 hour ago, generalchaos34 said: still deadlier in close combat that any long range shooting unit should be. plus they have a decent chance to cause mortal wounds on top of that! edit: if you can't tell Kurnoth hunters have touched me in bad ways =P You mispronounced “Skyfires”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generalchaos34 Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 1 minute ago, rokapoke said: You mispronounced “Skyfires”. LoL, I have yet to me mishandled by Skyfires, but I have heard tales of their unnerving accuracy and the bucket load of attacks for no darn reason. plus they are pretty cheap and mobile? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qaz Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 5 hours ago, generalchaos34 said: LoL, I have yet to me mishandled by Skyfires, but I have heard tales of their unnerving accuracy and the bucket load of attacks for no darn reason. plus they are pretty cheap and mobile? Mobile, no longer 'cheap' but still very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratigo Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Qaz said: Mobile, no longer 'cheap' but still very good. And they're better in melee than bow kurnoths. Discs are silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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