Zetsu20 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 On 2/7/2018 at 8:41 PM, Beliman said: We know that He can be taken like an ally, and still be your general (source: Malign Portents leaks). The only thing that he can't take is KO's Artifacts and Traits (maybe I'm wrong here). Ally cannot be your general and if you use grand allegiance order..you cannot use a skyport ability as well. So Lord-ordinator can only use to+1hit as ally but i think he pretty cool for our army same as Celestial Hurricanum with lesser point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 3 hours ago, Zetsu20 said: Ally cannot be your general and if you use grand allegiance order..you cannot use a skyport ability as well. So Lord-ordinator can only use to+1hit as ally but i think he pretty cool for our army same as Celestial Hurricanum with lesser point. Yeah, I know. But again, from Malign Portents leaks, there is an specific feature for all harbingers: You can make them your General (even if they are allies). In the same page, it specifies that they need to be legal targets to take Traits/Artifacts, so if you take them like allies, you will lose your General's trait (Oportunistic Privateer!!!)and you need another HQ to make use of your free artifact/treasure. But +1hit/Double shooting Ironclad sounds really fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qaz Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 You can use him as the general. Just read it out at the back of the book. My lovely Ironclad needs a partner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratigo Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 Dammit GW, I don't want to buy a stormcast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urbanus Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Help me, I seek the wisdom of my superiors! Hey everyone. I have been considering doing a pure foot KO army. I really love the models and the idea of a semi-horde. So I have two questions: How is the Big guy Brokk? Seems pretty killy but way to exspencive? Does he hold up? Would really like something with punch in my army. This is propably an old debate, but where do we stand on the Skyhook vs Endrinriggers in a no Skyvessel army? And how do we use them? Pure objective grabbing or panic button for meelee? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myr Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 The idea of a no-ship KO list is intersting. A bit risky due to the bad save, nevertheless it should be playable! Brokk is expensive, but he is comprehesible with a gunhauler... with a lot more firepower and save! Even if i didn`t played him till now - the model/ an equal conversion is missing in my collection - I like him. Good shooting weapons and very hard in close combat. In combination with at least 9 Endrinriggers he will slay everything. In your army his generals feat is very important, whitout ships your guys will get the first shooting phase directly, so you need speed. IMO the skyhook is a good weapon - In Arkanaut units! There you can use a bunch of them und with a Khemist buffing a 30 dawi troop you get 18 shoots. This unit gives your Endrinriggers a massive support. But an Endrinrigger will not only loose his Rivet Gun, but also his Saw. This combat weapons are amazing, why you should change this kind of awesomeness of a 40 point model, that are more awesome after a khemistbuff? (The D6'' move effect is not relevant) With pure you mean only KO (so no allies) or only no ships? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratigo Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 the problem is that brokk is barak nar and barak nar is kinda bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myr Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 But their is no rule, tjat you must use the Barak Nar skyport rules, if you want to set him. You can combine him with every skyport! @Urbanus: Barak-Urbaz ist interesting for you, but Barak Thryng should be the first choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zetsu20 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 On 2/9/2018 at 2:47 PM, Beliman said: Yeah, I know. But again, from Malign Portents leaks, there is an specific feature for all harbingers: You can make them your General (even if they are allies). In the same page, it specifies that they need to be legal targets to take Traits/Artifacts, so if you take them like allies, you will lose your General's trait (Oportunistic Privateer!!!)and you need another HQ to make use of your free artifact/treasure. But +1hit/Double shooting Ironclad sounds really fun. Oh wow i didn't know that. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zetsu20 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 18 hours ago, stratigo said: the problem is that brokk is barak nar and barak nar is kinda bad. I use brokk in my urbaz skyport. expensive but i really like him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urbanus Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Hey everyone, thanks for the repliks. Im sorry I got a bit confused I meant Skywardens vs Endrinriggers! People seem to include both in their lists, but if you dont have ships are Endrinriggers still relevant? I also just saw that the Khemist is up to 140 points! Is he really worth that? And how du use him? Buff 30 man strong units of company dudes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myr Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Skywardens (SW) vs Endrinriggers (ER): I would say ER win/are more effective. 1) some profile (save, bravery, etc.) 2) but the ER have trice the firepower (4+ instead of 3+ wound) with a 3'' longer range and so nasty in the shooting phase. 3) in close combat the SW have 1'' more range and 2 instead of 1 A, but the ER hit better, wound, better and have a -2 rend. So the ER are more reliable in their damage and good monster/tank killer, the SW are a bit more gambling. In combination with a Khemist you double the ER-output, but SW "only" get 50% more. 4) ER repair feat is cool, but even without ships they are effective. I love this guys Khemist: The missle weapon is a short range mass destruction weapon of lighter enemy units (use the Aethershock Earbuster!) and Barak-Urbaz buff this Buff. 2 Khemist can then increase 4 Unitweapons. Preferred weapons: Saws of ER and skyhooks of Arkanauts --> Damage, damage and more damage! Even 3 skyhooks of 10 Arkanauts are good target for this... 6/20 are better... 9/30... etc ^^ The point increasement to 140 was hard and in my point of view: the old combo with Khemist and Grunstock Thunderers was OP yes... and GW hate it... but disrupt both units in the FAQ was needless (expensive Khemist, GT now not play relevvant AND change the buff) BUT this another topic a simple adding of "a weapon could only be buffed once per round" had the same effect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FractalRain Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Just to add a note about Skywardens too - people often take them as fire support - with aethermatic volley gun and/or drill cannon, due to the range. Also, the Skywardens are a little cheaper, so sometimes they have just the right points to fit as a mobile attack unit and for grabbing objectives, when your Endrinriggers are the assassination squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djoblo Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 On 2018-02-11 at 3:25 AM, Urbanus said: Help me, I seek the wisdom of my superiors! Hey everyone. I have been considering doing a pure foot KO army. I really love the models and the idea of a semi-horde. So I have two questions: How is the Big guy Brokk? Seems pretty killy but way to exspencive? Does he hold up? Would really like something with punch in my army. Juste played a 1500pts tournament KO without boat. Gone pretty well Didn't use brokk... find him too expensive, I'd take 6 rigger+60pts or 9 warden over him... futhermore I prefer an admiral command ability. Quote This is propably an old debate, but where do we stand on the Skyhook vs Endrinriggers in a no Skyvessel army? And how do we use them? Pure objective grabbing or panic button for meelee? Rigger don't need a boat to be awesome. Rigger and warden doesn't have the same Job for me. I use my rigger as CloseCombat assassin and far objective grabber > 9 rigger, 7 saw and pistol 2 Grapnel. My Warden are close objective keeper and contester and utility shooting tool > 9 warden, 3 Drill, 3 volleygun, 3 custodian and a khemist boost on the required weapon. (Drill or pike... not volley obviously) Their repairing capacity is anecdotic for me. Here's my 1500pts if you are wondering: Spoiler Allegiance: Kharadron OverlordsSkyport: Barak-Urbaz Additional footnote : There's No Trading With Some PeopleNone LeadersAether-Khemist (140)- Artefact: Aethershock Earbuster Aether-Khemist (140)- Artefact: Gimlet Lens Arkanaut Admiral (140)- General- Trait: ProspectorBattleline20 x Arkanaut Company (240)- 6x Light Skyhooks10 x Arkanaut Company (120)- 3x Aethermatic Volley Guns10 x Arkanaut Company (120)- 3x Light SkyhooksUnits6 x Skywardens (200)- 2x Aethermatic Volley Guns- 2x Drill Cannons9 x Endrinriggers (360)- 2x Grapnel Launchers1 x Gryph-Hound (40)Total: 1500 / 2000Allies: 40 / 400Wounds: 104 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkanaut Admiral Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 Every game I play with my Overlords, I get a little closer to victory. Bad dice rolls continue to hamper me though. This is my latest effort right here: Barak Zilfin Admiral (general) 10 Arkanaut fighters with 3 skyhooks 10 Arkanaut fighters with 3 skyhooks 10 Arkanaut fighters with 3 skyhooks 6 endrinriggers 6 endrinriggers Ironclad with Great Sky Cannon Frigate with Heavy Sky Cannon Frigate with Heavy Sky Cannon Total: 1980pts It’s the same list I’ve used before, but with the khemist swapped out for an admiral. However, I’m toying with the idea of taking 3 units of 3 endrinriggers instead, allowing me to take the khemist. I’m playing aggressive because my opponent takes a lot of things to affect my shooting (mirror shield etc.) and I just find myself missing all shots. I was thinking of using the special footnote and the admirals ability to get my Ironclad right across the board, wereby a frigate with the aero fins can deepstrike in to support. If I can take out his lord celestant and fuligators/concussors I think I’ll have it in the bag. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drofnum Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 If you are running that many ships maybe think about adding the Lord Ordinator? His command ability to give the Ironclad double shooting could be pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djoblo Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Arkanaut Admiral said: Every game I play with my Overlords, I get a little closer to victory. Bad dice rolls continue to hamper me though. This is my latest effort right here: That list is clearly unplayable... to many boat for such a few unit. Frigate is for transport. Only (in pitched battle at last) It's overcoasted, non lethal, weak (5+ save WTF?). You got 40-55 model slot in your boat for 30 model in your list... 10-25 empty slot. Ok your mobility is nice, but your army is weak for 2kpoints Drop at last 1 frigate and take arkanaut (for at last one unit of 20) then DONT DROP THE KHEMIST Just saying : Barak Urbaz + 30 arkanaut + 1khemist +1admiral = Free moral 18 shot Command phase + 18 shot shooting phase of Skyhook (4+ 3+ -2 D3) That's a 20 average dmg ! On a monster or a hero with a 3+ save it's a 26,66 dmg ! Give me a sec, i'll post my last list in a few minutes just for exemple (don't saying it's perfect, but easily won 50% of game and finish 1st in my last tournament) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkanaut Admiral Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 46 minutes ago, Drofnum said: If you are running that many ships maybe think about adding the Lord Ordinator? His command ability to give the Ironclad double shooting could be pretty good. Good idea! Remind me, can an allied model be your general? 35 minutes ago, Djoblo said: That list is clearly unplayable... to many boat for such a few unit. Frigate is for transport. Only (in pitched battle at last) It's overcoasted, non lethal, weak (5+ save WTF?). You got 40-55 model slot in your boat for 30 model in your list... 10-25 empty slot. Ok your mobility is nice, but your army is weak for 2kpoints Drop at last 1 frigate and take arkanaut (for at last one unit of 20) then DONT DROP THE KHEMIST Just saying : Barak Urbaz + 30 arkanaut + 1khemist +1admiral = Free moral 18 shot Command phase + 18 shot shooting phase of Skyhook (4+ 3+ -2 D3) That's a 20 average dmg ! On a monster or a hero with a 3+ save it's a 26,66 dmg ! Give me a sec, i'll post my last list in a few minutes just for exemple (don't saying it's perfect, but easily won 50% of game and finish 1st in my last tournament) It’s not that unplayable. I’ve come close to winning a few times. Again, it’s my appallingly bad dice rolling that’s been hampering me most of the time. I roll 1s like 40% of the time. Plus I play against stormcast a lot and they have silly levels of endurance. 2+ saves with rerolls on 1s are impossible to get through outside of mortal wounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djoblo Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 9 minutes ago, Arkanaut Admiral said: t’s not that unplayable. I’ve come close to winning a few times. Ok sorry Unplayable it's a bit rude. i should have said "hard to play in competitive top tier opponent" 9 minutes ago, Arkanaut Admiral said: 2+ saves with rerolls on 1s are impossible to get through outside of mortal wounds. test with 30 arkanaut +khemist boost = average 13.33 damage (direct firing at the big damn drake ;P) Here's my list. Usually use a relatively basic strategy: - Ironclad placed first with 10 arkanaut, 1 khemist, the Skywardens and Riggers aboard - Center block 20 arkanaut with admiral and khemist - 10 arkanaut where needed - redeploy the clad if Fleetmaster /OR/ immune battleshock 20 arkanaut (if possible) with prospector - drop the rigger quickly to Grapnel - then go on... The list : Spoiler Allegiance: Kharadron OverlordsSkyport: Barak-Urbaz- Additional Footnote: There's No Trading With Some PeopleLeadersAether-Khemist (140)- Artefact: Aethershock Earbuster Aether-Khemist (140)- Artefact: Aethershock Earbuster Arkanaut Admiral (140)- General- Trait: Fleetmaster or ProspectorBattleline20 x Arkanaut Company (240)- 6x Light Skyhooks10 x Arkanaut Company (120)- 3x Light Skyhooks10 x Arkanaut Company (120)- 3x Light SkyhooksUnits9 x Endrinriggers (360)- 2x Grapnel Launchers6 x Skywardens (200)- 2x Aethermatic Volley Guns- 2x Drill Cannons3 x Skywardens (100)- 1x Aethermatic Volley Guns- 1x Drill CannonsWar MachinesArkanaut Ironclad (440)Total: 2000 / 2000Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 110 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drofnum Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, Arkanaut Admiral said: Good idea! Remind me, can an allied model be your general? Generally, no. The heralds do have special rules that will allow it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urbanus Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 Sad to see there is so little love for the Tunderers. My favorite models! Do anyone still run them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djoblo Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 1 hour ago, Urbanus said: Sad to see there is so little love for the Tunderers. My favorite models! Do anyone still run them? Love them but 1- 100pts of thunderers (boosted with khemist) : 18” 3.33 dmg/turn, 5 wound 4+ save, losing efficiency after 1 wound, oh I forgot, you can retreat after being charged and being crushed with your hopes, amazing. 100pts of arkanaut (boosted just skyhook) : 24” +12” 2.83dmg/turn + 1.66dmg/turn, 8.3wound 5+, losing efficiency after 5.8wounds, better against looney stardrake save and against monster and hero. ok I didn't count special looney weapons combos... inefficient under 300pts+ units. Ok2 the Khemist boost probably broke a bit the damage stat... 2- isn't a battleline 3- Endrinrigger are crazy... Got a 100pts left in my 2k list... skywarden or thunderer by 5... seriously those model are great but and the stats are not that bad, but hey, I already got a 3 battleline, I don't need another one. I gonna put the rest of my points on amazing balloon and inaffordable boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratigo Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 So, the zilfin list seems to struggle against legion of nagash. Death is really resilient, skeletons are probably the very best unit in the game now. THe amount of investment it takes to eliminate a 280 point unit leaves you wide open, and if you DON'T kill them, they end up on an objective and sit there, or trvially walk through a unit of baloon boys, and they are immune to attrition. You have to beat the ****** out of them for any damage to stick around. They'll beat 9 balloon boys over a grinding match, even is the Balloon boys get the buff turn one. And if they van hals it, they'll mulch balloon boys with utter ease. And you can make them fast if you want. And every shot you're pouring into them isn't going into an enabling unit. Five or six necromancers and arkhan is just rough. Kil arkhan the first turn, and it doesn't matter. Also, the double turn mechanic is BS and I hate losing to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zetsu20 Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 10 hours ago, Arkanaut Admiral said: Every game I play with my Overlords, I get a little closer to victory. Bad dice rolls continue to hamper me though. This is my latest effort right here: Barak Zilfin Admiral (general) 10 Arkanaut fighters with 3 skyhooks 10 Arkanaut fighters with 3 skyhooks 10 Arkanaut fighters with 3 skyhooks 6 endrinriggers 6 endrinriggers Ironclad with Great Sky Cannon Frigate with Heavy Sky Cannon Frigate with Heavy Sky Cannon Total: 1980pts It’s the same list I’ve used before, but with the khemist swapped out for an admiral. However, I’m toying with the idea of taking 3 units of 3 endrinriggers instead, allowing me to take the khemist. I’m playing aggressive because my opponent takes a lot of things to affect my shooting (mirror shield etc.) and I just find myself missing all shots. I was thinking of using the special footnote and the admirals ability to get my Ironclad right across the board, wereby a frigate with the aero fins can deepstrike in to support. If I can take out his lord celestant and fuligators/concussors I think I’ll have it in the bag. Thoughts? if you play zilfin better use more endrinriggers than the frigate in my opinion. My list use Urbaz skyport with 2x khemist 1x admiral 1x ironclad 12x skywarden(4x drill cannon , 4x aether volley) 9x skywarden(3x drill cannon,3x aether volley) 10x arkanaut company (3x light skyhook) 10x arkanaut company (3x light skyhook) 10x arkanaut company (3x light skyhook) this almost first turn kill all general or the big unit of enemy army. for my opinion KO army better play with shooting style only and not going to combat with enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aktr Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 Hi, I' new here and fairly new to AoS in general - I've only had one proper game do far Anyway to the point I like the idea of a KO army but I'm a bit concerned about a couple of things How many Frigates and Ironclads do people generally field in 2000pts? All my models go into KR cases and I'm worried I'll need a load of cases just for those airships. Does anyone else use KR cases to store there airships? If so how well do they fit in? Also is an army that has Gunhualers as the only airship viable? I've seen that they are not well regarded Cheers Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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