Let's chat Kharadron Overlords

[stato]

What are peoples thoughts on the Footnote "these are just guidelines", does it require you to roll for a new Artycle or pick one?  Ive not used it before but it seems like roll, as the initial artycle is pick or 'alternatively roll' .

Ta.

[Azurious]

2 hours ago, stato said:

What are peoples thoughts on the Footnote "these are just guidelines", does it require you to roll for a new Artycle or pick one?  Ive not used it before but it seems like roll, as the initial artycle is pick or 'alternatively roll' .

Ta.

It does require you to roll as the ability specifically describes how the new artycle is selected, which diminishes its usefulness quite considerably.

[Arkanaut Admiral]

I've got a 2k game tonight.  My Overlords against my friends Stormcast.  This is the list I'll be using.  It's a slightly modified version of the one I've been regularly using, and I'd thought I'd post it here for comments.

Barak Mhornar (footnote: there's no trading with some people)

Arkanauht Admiral with Gattlesson's Endless Repeater and Opportunistic Privateers Command Trait

10 Arkanauht Fighters with skypike, volley gun and light sky hook

10 Arkanauht Fighters with skypike, volley gun and light sky hook

10 Arkanauht Fighters with skypike, volley gun and light sky hook

6 Endrinriggers

6 Endrinriggers

Arkanauht Ironclad with Great Sky Cannon and The Last Word

Arkanauht Frigate with heavy sky cannon

Arkanauht Frigate with heavy sky cannon

With 20pts to spare, I think there's a good chance I'll be able to get a Triumph.  Thoughts?

[FractalRain]

16 minutes ago, Arkanaut Admiral said:

I've got a 2k game tonight.  My Overlords against my friends Stormcast.  This is the list I'll be using.  It's a slightly modified version of the one I've been regularly using, and I'd thought I'd post it here for comments.

Barak Mhornar (footnote: there's no trading with some people)

Arkanauht Admiral with Gattlesson's Endless Repeater and Opportunistic Privateers Command Trait

10 Arkanauht Fighters with skypike, volley gun and light sky hook

10 Arkanauht Fighters with skypike, volley gun and light sky hook

10 Arkanauht Fighters with skypike, volley gun and light sky hook

6 Endrinriggers

6 Endrinriggers

Arkanauht Ironclad with Great Sky Cannon and The Last Word

Arkanauht Frigate with heavy sky cannon

Arkanauht Frigate with heavy sky cannon

With 20pts to spare, I think there's a good chance I'll be able to get a Triumph.  Thoughts?

Thanks for sharing your list!  I have a few thoughts for you.  Perhaps swap your Arknaught special weapons around so they all have a specialized role - i.e., put all light sky hooks in one unit, all volley guns in the other, etc - as it would help you focus them and they may be more effective.  In conjunction to that, then you could drop one Frigate and get one Khemist, so it can buff your Endrinriggers or the light sky hooks.  But otherwise, let us know how the game goes!

[Dez]

14 minutes ago, FractalRain said:

Thanks for sharing your list!  I have a few thoughts for you.  Perhaps swap your Arknaught special weapons around so they all have a specialized role - i.e., put all light sky hooks in one unit, all volley guns in the other, etc - as it would help you focus them and they may be more effective.  In conjunction to that, then you could drop one Frigate and get one Khemist, so it can buff your Endrinriggers or the light sky hooks.  But otherwise, let us know how the game goes!

This was my first impression too, though I am interested to hear how multiple ships will do.

[stato]

36 minutes ago, Arkanaut Admiral said:

I've got a 2k game tonight.  My Overlords against my friends Stormcast.  This is the list I'll be using.  It's a slightly modified version of the one I've been regularly using, and I'd thought I'd post it here for comments.

Barak Mhornar (footnote: there's no trading with some people)

Spoiler

 

Arkanauht Admiral with Gattlesson's Endless Repeater and Opportunistic Privateers Command Trait

10 Arkanauht Fighters with skypike, volley gun and light sky hook

10 Arkanauht Fighters with skypike, volley gun and light sky hook

10 Arkanauht Fighters with skypike, volley gun and light sky hook

6 Endrinriggers

6 Endrinriggers

Arkanauht Ironclad with Great Sky Cannon and The Last Word

Arkanauht Frigate with heavy sky cannon

Arkanauht Frigate with heavy sky cannon

 

With 20pts to spare, I think there's a good chance I'll be able to get a Triumph.  Thoughts?

Interesting list, would love to see pictures and here how you plan to run it. 

With Mhornar it will certainly make a formidable castle;  ships in front as a melee screen, Arkanauts behind, admiral in centre buffing everything (re-roll to hit is great for the frigate cannons), endriggers as your counter attack.  Not sure how you would play it against Stormcast through if he has much shooting.

17 minutes ago, FractalRain said:

Thanks for sharing your list!  I have a few thoughts for you.  Perhaps swap your Arknaught special weapons around so they all have a specialized role - i.e., put all light sky hooks in one unit, all volley guns in the other, etc - as it would help you focus them and they may be more effective.  In conjunction to that, then you could drop one Frigate and get one Khemist, so it can buff your Endrinriggers or the light sky hooks.  But otherwise, let us know how the game goes!

Without a khemist id say keep the units mixed weapons, otherwise your skyhook unit is the first target.

[stratigo]

8 hours ago, stato said:

Interesting list, would love to see pictures and here how you plan to run it. 

With Mhornar it will certainly make a formidable castle;  ships in front as a melee screen, Arkanauts behind, admiral in centre buffing everything (re-roll to hit is great for the frigate cannons), endriggers as your counter attack.  Not sure how you would play it against Stormcast through if he has much shooting.

Without a khemist id say keep the units mixed weapons, otherwise your skyhook unit is the first target.

With three skyhooks you Have a 24 inch range. That is a lot of leeway to not get murdered 

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

8 hours ago, FractalRain said:

Thanks for sharing your list!  I have a few thoughts for you.  Perhaps swap your Arknaught special weapons around so they all have a specialized role - i.e., put all light sky hooks in one unit, all volley guns in the other, etc - as it would help you focus them and they may be more effective.  In conjunction to that, then you could drop one Frigate and get one Khemist, so it can buff your Endrinriggers or the light sky hooks.  But otherwise, let us know how the game goes!

Aye.

Is there a reason you're not taking a Khemist to double up those skyhooks?

[Arkanaut Admiral]

Thanks for the feedback everyone!  To answer a few points:

I didn't take a Khemist because in the past mine dies too easily to make much of a difference.   And when he does die I'm usually wishing that I had more troops.  I also didn't get any photos of the two games because my army is not very photogenic at the moment. 

About the game, we actually played two; the first one started well.  It was Battle For The Pass.  I went first, and over my turn and my opponent's turn I did well.  Good turn of shooting, all my bombs went off against charging units and I weathered their attacks.  Then I lost the initiative (6-5) and it was all game over.  Opponent jumped me with deep striking paladins via the prosecutors using that battlion. 

This, combined with all the other nasty stuff Stormcast can throw out, simultaneously destroyed my ironclad and a frigate, killing nearly a third of my force with them.  My ships went from near full wounds to wreckage just like that.  With only my admiral, a few endriggers and a frigate with 10 fighters on board and surrounded on all sides by a near full sized Stormcast army, I had to concede after only 3 phases.  An utter disaster for me. 

The second one (starstrike) went much better, but I still lost on points.  I did suffer a lot of casualties, but I dished out a lot too, and only lost by a few points.  These games were a practice run for my friend who's playing a tournament this Sunday.  I think they helped him work out the finer details of his force.  Practice makes perfect after all.  As for me, it just reinforced the fact that the Kharadrons are a difficult faction to use.  Or maybe that's just me. 

 

[stato]

29 minutes ago, Arkanaut Admiral said:

About the game, we actually played two; the first one started well.  It was Battle For The Pass.  I went first, and over my turn and my opponent's turn I did well.  Good turn of shooting, all my bombs went off against charging units and I weathered their attacks.  Then I lost the initiative (6-5) and it was all game over.  Opponent jumped me with deep striking paladins via the prosecutors using that battlion. 

This, combined with all the other nasty stuff Stormcast can throw out, simultaneously destroyed my ironclad and a frigate, killing nearly a third of my force with them.  My ships went from near full wounds to wreckage just like that.  With only my admiral, a few endriggers and a frigate with 10 fighters on board and surrounded on all sides by a near full sized Stormcast army, I had to concede after only 3 phases.  An utter disaster for me. 

Yep, never leave anything in a boat unless its 100% safe or you desperately need to get bodies to an objective. Not being able to deploy after moving the boat means the transport ability is almost worthless compared to how much damage you could have dished out with that unit.

 

37 minutes ago, Arkanaut Admiral said:

The second one (starstrike) went much better, but I still lost on points.  I did suffer a lot of casualties, but I dished out a lot too, and only lost by a few points.  These games were a practice run for my friend who's playing a tournament this Sunday.  I think they helped him work out the finer details of his force.  Practice makes perfect after all.  As for me, it just reinforced the fact that the Kharadrons are a difficult faction to use.  Or maybe that's just me. 

Youve went down the (admittedly cool looking) fluffy route of using lots of boats and all the unit weapon options, its not going to be an easy ride against a strong list.

[stato]

Ive just taken delivery of another box of Skywardens to add to my existing unit and looking for some feedback.

I built a unit of 6 initially with 1 grapnel. They performed well as my objective grabber and outriders while the Endriggers and arkanauts did the hitting. Im tweaking my list and having the Wardens bump up to 9 and will be giving them 3 drill cannons and X volley guns, to perform more as a static gun line but also screen other parts of my force from combat. Im not sure taking 3 volley guns is worth it vs the Spears, what are your thoughts?

Cheers,

Rich.

[wanderingrogue]

yea take the cannons. they do a suprising amount of damage still. and they are usually playing pretty passive

[GeneralZero]

Those karadron overlords  are dramatically appealing to me. I'd like to start a fresh army. I've read many pages/things but I can't decide yet, especially since the GH2017 changes. What is the actual competitive list (and how equiped)?

I'll see then about the budget (in Europe/UK/France)

[Arkanaut Admiral]

23 hours ago, stato said:

Yep, never leave anything in a boat unless its 100% safe or you desperately need to get bodies to an objective. Not being able to deploy after moving the boat means the transport ability is almost worthless compared to how much damage you could have dished out with that unit.

I was aiming to get to the objectives asap whilst protecting the embarked arknauhts from judicator fire.  In hindsight I should have deployed them immediately, but I find that one good volley from a unit of Judicators will destroy them.  It's catch 22.

That issue with transportation bothers me though.  It seems like a flaw in the design of the army.  Maybe I'm being presumptuous but there's a few things with the Overlords I would tweak if given the chance.  But I hate admitting it because it makes me feel like I suck at playing them and I'm blaming everything but myself.  As they say, a bad workman blames his tools... 

23 hours ago, stato said:

Youve went down the (admittedly cool looking) fluffy route of using lots of boats and all the unit weapon options, its not going to be an easy ride against a strong list.

I've thought about ditching the ships and concentrating on more troops...but then I realize how hard it would be to move around with that 4" movement.  Plus, I'd be out ranged a lot of the time too. 

[stato]

53 minutes ago, Arkanaut Admiral said:

I've thought about ditching the ships and concentrating on more troops...but then I realize how hard it would be to move around with that 4" movement.  Plus, I'd be out ranged a lot of the time too. 

Arkanauts and heros are not quick so ships can play a part, but for me that is mainly as a behemoth for objective capture, and to reduce deployment drops.

I played against Tzeentch list last night on starstrike. It was close the whole way through but i lost in the end solely to poor placement of models and canny pile-in move by my opponent. I lost a lot of Arkanauts at the beginning but having a unit of 30 meant i could lose 21 before it impacted my 9 skyhook shooting. I did leave 10 arkanauts with 3 volley gun in the boat (with half a thought to this thread) but only as i knew he would be magic/shooting it dead so id still have space around it to deploy them. It meant i had 7 arkanauts (rolled 3 1's when they jumped out!) holding the centre starstrike.  Mostly though movement in my current list comes from Riggers, Wardens, an Azyros and 2 units of prosecutors. 

[FractalRain]

6 hours ago, Arkanaut Admiral said:

I was aiming to get to the objectives asap whilst protecting the embarked arknauhts from judicator fire.  In hindsight I should have deployed them immediately, but I find that one good volley from a unit of Judicators will destroy them.  It's catch 22.

That issue with transportation bothers me though.  It seems like a flaw in the design of the army.  Maybe I'm being presumptuous but there's a few things with the Overlords I would tweak if given the chance.  But I hate admitting it because it makes me feel like I suck at playing them and I'm blaming everything but myself.  As they say, a bad workman blames his tools... 

I've thought about ditching the ships and concentrating on more troops...but then I realize how hard it would be to move around with that 4" movement.  Plus, I'd be out ranged a lot of the time too. 

I completely know how you feel - I do the same thing!  I've lost whole units/characters when my opponent got a double-turn and managed to surround enough of my frigate and destroy it.  I play more conservatively now, but it still feels counter-intuitive.  It would really help the army if we could move and Disembark as an option.  That would help with shooting/charging.  Though Disembarking in the Hero phase let's the unit get buffs etc.  Now I find myself loading up my frigate and using my Fleetmaster to redeploy it and drop stuff out in the first turn.  Occasionally I'll leave something in it if I plan to be move it towards an area where it is unlikely to get surrounded.  But those double-turns hurt, no matter how you prepare! 

I've heard of people going whole footslogging, but that would make it very difficult for some scenarios - provided you don't just shoot them off the board.  However, you could use some fast allies, endrinriggers/sky wardens, or just run 1 ship.  I've often run one frigate to provide a hit point sink and deployment/movement flexibility.  Plan to try an ironclad soon!

[Dez]

All foot KO are really good, the Endrinriggers Grapnel makes it so you have a fast unit or two to go grab objectives. You then sit your foot troops on some objectives while the light skyhooks just murder stuff right off the table. I've had good luck running small units of Skywardens to grab objectives too. That said, I'd love to see taking more ships be a better option, it's part of the army's fundamental theme!

[Amradiel]

The Barak Zilfin clown car, if I want to run just one Ironclad. Is that enough? Seems like a huge target.

[Azurious]

2 hours ago, Amradiel said:

The Barak Zilfin clown car, if I want to run just one Ironclad. Is that enough? Seems like a huge target.

1 ironclad is perfect, the list is all about the big alpha so you want as many free points as possible for riggers and wardens to bring the big rend hits.

[Karchev23]

Whats the consensus of dealing with Maggotkin?

[Tailessine]

Yep ships need to be fixed for ghb2018, if i wanted an all foot duardin army there are disposessed and fyreslayers...

[Arkanaut Admiral]

20 minutes ago, Tailessine said:

Yep ships need to be fixed for ghb2018, if i wanted an all foot duardin army there are disposessed and fyreslayers...

This.  This right here. 

I feel like letting the units disembark in the movement phase (with that counting as their movement) would really help out.  It would mean losing the ability to buff them in the hero phase but I think that’s a worthy trade off.

Navigators too.  The frigate and the Ironclad models have a navigator on board and he should be able to help out without relying on a foot navigation to help.  He should be to the ship what musicians are for foot troops.  A +1 bonus to running?  This would work well with the foot navigators bonuses.

 

[stratigo]

5 hours ago, Arkanaut Admiral said:

This.  This right here. 

I feel like letting the units disembark in the movement phase (with that counting as their movement) would really help out.  It would mean losing the ability to buff them in the hero phase but I think that’s a worthy trade off.

Navigators too.  The frigate and the Ironclad models have a navigator on board and he should be able to help out without relying on a foot navigation to help.  He should be to the ship what musicians are for foot troops.  A +1 bonus to running?  This would work well with the foot navigators bonuses.

 

This would make the current best way to play kharadrons absolutely worthless and knock them right out of pretty much any competitive scene. You'd be reinforcing footslogging.

[GeneralZero]

45 minutes ago, stratigo said:

This would make the current best way to play kharadrons absolutely worthless

and what is the best way to play them?

45 minutes ago, stratigo said:

knock them right out of pretty much any competitive scene

I asked earlier, can someone tell me a competitive 2k points list? It seems to be 1 ironclad + troops but, more specificaly?

[Naflem]

42 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

 

I asked earlier, can someone tell me a competitive 2k points list? It seems to be 1 ironclad + troops but, more specificaly?

Well if you want it super specifically, the Ziflan clowncar list is all over the place, including in this thread.  (Basically that’s your battleline 3 units of company, an ironclad, a couple khemists and as many endinriggers with saws and grapples as you can fit, maybe also a unit of skywardens with drill cannons and vollyguns, take skyport ziflian and you can either deepstrike all but one unit of company or you can use your hero ship move to alpha strike in your first hero phase)  If you just want some elements, I’d say no more than one ship, company should mostly use skyhooks if possible, a unit of 30 company supported by a khemist is mean, a unit of 9 endrinriggers supported by a khemist with 2-3 grapnels is mean, a unit of 6-9 skywardens with heavy weapons is a good objective taker with some longer range firepower, and a admiral can be good for his bravery bubble if positioned properly.  Use some of those elements, and you can make a competitive list.