GlanceOnASix Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 Just to report, I've not gotten in half a dozen games with a Ziflin Drop List and have been having a lot of success. Admiral 3x Kemist (1x Earburster) 30x Arkanauts (3x Skyhooks in each) 10x Thunderers (10x Cannons) 9x Endrinriggers (2x Grap Launchers) 6x Skywardens (2x Volly, 2x Drill) Ironclad (Volly gun never feels good, but the cannon misses too much). The drop and Thunderers/Skyhooks hit is killer, and I've been finding that I commit the Endrin's typically the turn after fully buffed up. The Ironclad was holding up a remarkable amount of hits and was really acting like a buffer between my troops and many of the melee/swarm units that try to get to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Lyons Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 On July 28, 2017 at 11:43 AM, Nico said: It would be pretty astonishing if same buff stacking survives the GHB2017. Agreed. Urbaz would certainly jump in value if this were the case. Definitely considering my 90 Company Urbaz force ;-) On August 7, 2017 at 9:43 AM, GlanceOnASix said: Just to report, I've not gotten in half a dozen games with a Ziflin Drop List and have been having a lot of success. Admiral 3x Kemist (1x Earburster) 30x Arkanauts (3x Skyhooks in each) 10x Thunderers (10x Cannons) 9x Endrinriggers (2x Grap Launchers) 6x Skywardens (2x Volly, 2x Drill) Ironclad (Volly gun never feels good, but the cannon misses too much). The drop and Thunderers/Skyhooks hit is killer, and I've been finding that I commit the Endrin's typically the turn after fully buffed up. The Ironclad was holding up a remarkable amount of hits and was really acting like a buffer between my troops and many of the melee/swarm units that try to get to them. Agreed. I've found that this type of mixed list really has some gas in the proverbial engine. The only aspect that I'm simply unsure about are the Wardens and the Admiral. I could trade those 7 models for another Khemist and 20 more company (so you have a 30 block to receive Khemist buffs, alongside the Thunderers and Endrinriggers as options). I certainly agree that something along these lines are the magic formula. Thanks of the feedback. This confirms some of my own insights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlanceOnASix Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 @Thomas Lyons The main thing I see with the drop list, is trying to find that balance of 'firepower' units (which I feel the only 3 options are Skyhook Arks, Thunderers of Cannon/Mortar variety, and Riggers) and deployment count. The drop list seems strong because of its very hard to address alpha, and the fact that your stuff cant be really targeted till you present it. All of this makes me want to lean to be as close to a 1 drop as possible to get that turn one choice before a player has the chance to push their chaff halfway up the board preventing a powerful hit on their good tools. My Urbaz lists on the other-hand, massively full of Skyhooks and Mortars, and no ships, have very little ability to play those midfield and enemy dzone objectives, and can be hurt quite bad by getting shot at themselves, however I haven't seen a list that puts out raw damage output quite like it. I feel I just have to go into it assuming however I may be out deployed, or at least wont get the choice in first or second. If units like Stormfiends, Skyfires, artillery (with hurricane) focused free company, and skydropping Stormcast are all as powerful/prevalent as they are, It makes me want to lean to 'put everything in a boat in the sky'. The downside is to some degree, you have to build a very balloon focused army to fit it all in one ship. I played against a sylvanith the other day, where his entire list warps 9 away from me and charges on in with Durthu and combat kurnoths, and the idea of them getting into a 30 man company before I can even get "immune to battleshock' on them and I lose 20% of my list from just that really keeps me from aiming for the 'foot based lists" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Lyons Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 2 hours ago, GlanceOnASix said: I played against a sylvanith the other day, where his entire list warps 9 away from me and charges on in with Durthu and combat kurnoths, and the idea of them getting into a 30 man company before I can even get "immune to battleshock' on them and I lose 20% of my list from just that really keeps me from aiming for the 'foot based lists" Prospector would solve this. As long as one model from a unit is on the selected terrain piece, the unit is immune to battleshock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlanceOnASix Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Just now, Thomas Lyons said: Prospector would solve this. As long as one model from a unit is on the selected terrain piece, the unit is immune to battleshock. Very clever thought! I like it a lot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlanceOnASix Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 As an aside on the foot lists, I thought the addition of a couple of 'griffhound' allies could be quite nice, they allow a friendly unit to shoot with no limitation to stormcasts. And can spread out a 'dont drop here' bubble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Evening all I am after a bit of advise. I am going to start a small ko army I am aware I'll need 2x arkanaut company for battle line but apart from that I have no idea what to pic up. I am not looking for mega competitive or anything like that just a but of fun really. Holding to pick the book up Tommorow to help my understand the force better but any advise you could offer would be brill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eocosa Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Unfortunately the ships aren't all that. Usually you will find most lists run either and Ironclad or a Frigate. Endrinriggers are quite beastly and will chop through quite a bit in melee, especially when buffed by an alchemist. Grundstok thunderers will also dish out a TON of damage. You are best off usually with only one type of weapon per squad. Mortars make for great long range support while cannons are devestating up close. Both of these are especially potent when buffed by an alchemist (you see the trend here). A surprisingly powerful list has a lot of regular arkonauts on the ground blasting skyhooks left and right (especially when buffed with... all together now, an alchemist)! I can't go without an Admiral either, but that's more because I love the model and he can dish out some hurt too and help with command abilities preventing your lower courage troops from running. Hope that gets you started! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 6 hours ago, Eocosa said: Unfortunately the ships aren't all that. Usually you will find most lists run either and Ironclad or a Frigate. Endrinriggers are quite beastly and will chop through quite a bit in melee, especially when buffed by an alchemist. Grundstok thunderers will also dish out a TON of damage. You are best off usually with only one type of weapon per squad. Mortars make for great long range support while cannons are devestating up close. Both of these are especially potent when buffed by an alchemist (you see the trend here). A surprisingly powerful list has a lot of regular arkonauts on the ground blasting skyhooks left and right (especially when buffed with... all together now, an alchemist)! I can't go without an Admiral either, but that's more because I love the model and he can dish out some hurt too and help with command abilities preventing your lower courage troops from running. Hope that gets you started! It does indeed the alchemist sections made me laugh a lot. I'll start off with one and a squad of arks and try to build up from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eocosa Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Whoops! Replace "alchemist" with Aether-khemist in my previous post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 So I picked up a box of thunders a box of arkonauts and a aether kemist. Should be enough to get me going for awhile. Built the thunders. They (thunders) all have different guns but could I just say at the start of a game that they all have the same gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eocosa Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Depending on your opponent that shouldn't be a problem as long as you make it very clear with them beforehand. Some tournaments and players are WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get), which is a huge problem with thunderers and the bit market it is a bit fierce for the "better" guns. I have seen some cool conversions/kitbashes with Irondrakes, but if you are just playing casual games and the like you should be fine! Great start! I look forward to hearing about your battles! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Lyons Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 Well, GW decided to wait on the GHB with this change instead of notifying the community asap through the community page so that people didn't purchase worthless/redundant boxes. Here is the "update" to the Thunderers: +++ MOD EDIT +++ Removed Leaked Pictures In other news, I finished my 10 man unit of Aethercannon Thunderers yesterday and now have 10 open boxes of Thunderers with one model missing from each box... ******. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lecfast Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 On 8/17/2017 at 11:16 AM, Temp said: So I picked up a box of thunders a box of arkonauts and a aether kemist. Should be enough to get me going for awhile. Built the thunders. They (thunders) all have different guns but could I just say at the start of a game that they all have the same gun? Oh boy did you get lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Lyons Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 I've created a poll in the Order forum hoping to gather some initial data that I want to pass on to GW to get an idea of how the forthcoming changes to Thunderers are both felt and perceived by the community. If you want to participate in that feedback or discuss these changes further, I would encourage you to jump over there. This is obviously a good place to discuss the change but I don't want to completely derail this thread with that discussion.You can find that thread here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chikout Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 One thing I would say is that if I was playing against Tom I would be perfectly happy with having them all count as rifles. As they are all armed the same there would be no confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNotebookGM Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 9 hours ago, Chikout said: One thing I would say is that if I was playing against Tom I would be perfectly happy with how having them all count as rifles. As they are all armed the same there would be no confusion. Seconded, great work by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groomy Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 So I now have 4 boxes of KO to unpack and start working on. As I've read through this thread I saw many people say things like 1 drop, 2 drop, 12 drop. What does it mean? Do you think my army will die miserably and everyone will point and laugh at my dead stunties if I field a Frigate in my list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aezeal Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 2 hours ago, Groomy said: So I now have 4 boxes of KO to unpack and start working on. As I've read through this thread I saw many people say things like 1 drop, 2 drop, 12 drop. What does it mean? Do you think my army will die miserably and everyone will point and laugh at my dead stunties if I field a Frigate in my list? Probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eocosa Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 @Groomy What people are referring to is how many "turns" let's say it takes you to deploy your army. A 1-drop is usually an ironclad with your entire army riding in it and thus your deployment consists of "here is my ironclad and I am now done deploying". A 3-drop can be "here is a unit of thunderers, now your turn" and so on for 3 separate units. Keep in mind that an entire battalion can be deployed as a single drop, so that is often advantageous if you can do that "here is my iron sky squadron" let's you deploy the entire thing at once. People often shoot for low drops because it lets you choose who goes first if you finish deploying before your enemy. One advantage to a larger drop army is you can dump down a bunch of chaff (essentially cheap disposable units) to make your opponent put down most of their important units then you can start deploying your meaty units where they can do the most good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groomy Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 1 hour ago, Eocosa said: @Groomy What people are referring to is how many "turns" let's say it takes you to deploy your army. A 1-drop is usually an ironclad with your entire army riding in it and thus your deployment consists of "here is my ironclad and I am now done deploying". A 3-drop can be "here is a unit of thunderers, now your turn" and so on for 3 separate units. Keep in mind that an entire battalion can be deployed as a single drop, so that is often advantageous if you can do that "here is my iron sky squadron" let's you deploy the entire thing at once. People often shoot for low drops because it lets you choose who goes first if you finish deploying before your enemy. One advantage to a larger drop army is you can dump down a bunch of chaff (essentially cheap disposable units) to make your opponent put down most of their important units then you can start deploying your meaty units where they can do the most good. I really appreciate you taking time and going into detail with it. I do. Now I can tell people how many drops I took during a game With KO is it safe to assume that we almost always want to go first? Since we want to get in range and take faces off with shooting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecktron Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 4 hours ago, Groomy said: I really appreciate you taking time and going into detail with it. I do. Now I can tell people how many drops I took during a game With KO is it safe to assume that we almost always want to go first? Since we want to get in range and take faces off with shooting? In my opinion, not really. We don't have have the range to reach across the table. With the range nerf to the Grundstock mortars, most weapons have a range between 12-24". So to get at least some shots into the enemy lines we have to move closer to the enemy. Which makes it easier for them to charge our units. Even worse when they manage to get a double turn. Going second is my preferred choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlanceOnASix Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 I've read now that the only other change to KO (besides the thunderer thing) is Kemists going to 140. Allies are Fireslayers, Dispossessed, IronW, and StormCasts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowheart Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 6 hours ago, GlanceOnASix said: I've read now that the only other change to KO (besides the thunderer thing) is Kemists going to 140. Allies are Fireslayers, Dispossessed, IronW, and StormCasts Nah, khemist's stayed exactly the same, which makes the whole Thunderer thing all the more baffling to me. Other than the battalions going up in points only thing thats changed are the thunderers (which also went up in points to 140). My 5 man mortar team will be dropped, and probably just be replaced with 10 more arkonaught company, with 3 skyhooks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlanceOnASix Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 You are correct sir! It is Thunderers going up to 140. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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