Zahaladune Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 10 hours ago, Dez said: Also, I wanted to point out this Bad Dice Daily on Endrinriggers and Skywardens I forced my children to listen to while in the car yesterday http://baddice.co.uk/endrinriggers-skywardens-aos-daily-68/ Made me think about Skywardens a bit more, especially in regard to base sizes and their 2" range. I think he drastically underestimates the tactical usefulness of the Grapnel Launcher, but he makes good points about the Skywardens reach being more useful in larger groupings. In a couple months after I finish building/painting and play-testing my 2000pt army I'm going to invest a good chunk into some Wardens and see if I can make a decent melee unit out of them with some sly tactics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dez Posted June 6, 2017 Author Share Posted June 6, 2017 I agree on the Grapnels, units of 9 Endrinriggers with 3 Grapnels have been awesome awesome can't understate it awesome pivotal and game changingly awesome. I'm also thinking about some Skywardens later, right now I'm getting 18 Endrinriggers ready to hit the board Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlanceOnASix Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 I could see the argument (expecially in a world where I expect STACKING kemist buffs wont be around forever) that Riggers are the superior choice if you are willing to enhance them, but left alone Wardens can be pretty good solo. On the other hand, the 3 shot gun Riggers have is so good. I think if the units had switched guns, and maybe the Wardens had a 2 attack spear, 3 attack gun, and the Riggers had their 1 d3Damage Weapon, and like a 1 shot d3damage gun, you'd have units that are FOCUSED on separate unit types, one vs good armor saves, the other vs low armor saves. But right now, I'd really think that the Riggers are a superior choice in every way except combat 'reach'. Mind you my personal experience has been a lot of units of 6, and I dont have a hard time getting 5 of them in, especially with that 12 inch movement allowing them to spread out a little on the charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dez Posted June 6, 2017 Author Share Posted June 6, 2017 That's my experience as well, I don't care if 3 of 9 don't get in because they are Grapple Guns hitting with gun butts anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zahaladune Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Two great points made in support of why Riggers are just the better choice, outside of niche encounters. I wonder if there is a way to use the Mhornar Footnote to charge the Wardens in first off a boat, retreat them in the movement phase doing some free damage after the free attack, and then charge the Riggers in to finalize things. This would probably be over kill on a high Wound model, but might work for a kind of spear head that cleans up a larger unit; on top of whatever else is hiding in the boat ; ). Average damage may be against me here though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dez Posted June 6, 2017 Author Share Posted June 6, 2017 I think it would be a tactic to put into your bag of tricks, not to build an army around IMO. I'm rethinking how I have my army built, especially given my experiences so far. I think having 2 units of 9 Endrinriggers is absolute mayhem in particular where speed and board control are concerned. Back that up with a solid firebase (Arkanaut Company with Skyhooks given immune to BS via Admiral and buffing from Khemists) is how I might do this. Still configuring things, and working out how I could get an Ironclad in there too. At a glance: Allegiance: Kharadron OverlordsSkyport: Barak-Mhornar- Additional Footnote: These are Just GuidelinesHeroesAether-Khemist (100)- General- Trait: Opportunistic Privateers - Artefact: Aethershock Earbuster Arkanaut Admiral (140)Aether-Khemist (100)Battleline20 x Arkanaut Company (240)- 6x Light Skyhooks10 x Arkanaut Company (120)- 3x Light Skyhooks10 x Arkanaut Company (120)- 3x Light SkyhooksUnits9 x Endrinriggers (360)- 3x Grapnel Launchers9 x Endrinriggers (360)- 3x Grapnel LaunchersWar MachinesArkanaut Ironclad (440)- Main Gun: Great Sky Cannon- Great Endrinworks: The Last WordTotal: 1980/2000 While it's not going to blow people off the table in the first turn, I've got the tools to take out my opponents lynchpins. Depending on the game, I may just have the Endrinriggers and 2 Khemist on the Ironclad to buff Saws. This may require switching to Barak-Urbaz so I can keep a Khemist with the Arkanaut Company to buff Skyhooks, but I'm a Bad Moon at heart anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zahaladune Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 2 hours ago, Dez said: I think it would be a tactic to put into your bag of tricks, not to build an army around IMO. I agree, you never really want to build your list around a single tactic, unless play-testing ideas maybe. I'm thinking about adding a unit of Wardens to my Rigger boat(s) to give them a little added umph in combat against larger units. I'm also thinking that the Wardens reach lends them to assisted second line charges when the Footnote's already been used. I really want to see if I can make a moderately competitive list that focuses on balloons and boats, with Arkanauts simply as objective holders after the B&B crew clears nearby enemies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMMachine Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Hi guys, I have a question for the tournament players (I'm not a tournament player, and don't like maxed out spamlists, but want to know if this is really a thing in tournament meta). Lately we have a player in the german forum GW-Fanworld who has a blog where he made posts with "hard tournament meta lists". One of them is a KO List where he said it would make 280 Shots per round. The List would contain the follow models Alignment: Kharadron Overlords (Barak-Urbaz, die Marktstadt) Leaders Aether-Khemist (100) General, Tapferer Streiter Aether-Khemist (100) Aether-Khemist (100) Aether-Khemist (100) Aether-Khemist (100) Aether-Khemist (100) Battleline 10 x Arkanaut Company (120) 3 x Light Skyhook 10 x Arkanaut Company (120) 3 x Light Skyhook 30 x Arkanaut Company (360) 9 x Light Skyhook Units 20 x Grundstock Thunderers (400) 20x Grundstock Mortar 20 x Grundstock Thunderers (400) 20x Grundstock Mortar Total: 2000/2000 I don't have the english book so I don't know that english version of the general ability is or if in the alligment something needed to translate. The thought behind the list is mostly to give every Grundstock Thunderer 7 Mortar Shots per round. My question is, is that really a thing in british and or american tournaments? Are there flaws in the thought? I scrolled threw the entine thread here and didn't found a list like that (hope nobody will get bad ideas because of me ). regards EMMachine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dez Posted June 7, 2017 Author Share Posted June 7, 2017 @EMMachine It's a definite thing, just played a list like this in a tournament a couple weeks ago. No offense to my opponents, as they didn't see it coming...but it was a bloodbath and the games were clearly over by turn 2 if not sooner. I'd never take a list like this in a local tournament again I don't think, or I'd play it so I passed the +1 attack around instead of stacking it on Mortars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Buckler Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 It's OK. Think it has some terrible matchups so if you hit one of those you lose pretty much straight away. Also you will be 'that guy' if you take it and get mercilessly told so numerous times. (if you don;t care then its cool, for me not a list I would ever take, gives no game to your opponent or yourself) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMMachine Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 @DEZ Thanks for your answer. I'm wondering if such a list could be striked back by list, which could charge in first turn (fast units or units, which can be set up in 9" of this army) and hope to get the double turn. But I think even that plans will fail because the Arkanauts can block space for shocking armies and the Thunderers could retreat in combat instead of pile in. One question I have, that could be compared with Paul Bucklers last sentence (and I think I could read the answer in your last sentence. Did it feel like an deserved victory after defeating your opponent in 2 Turns or less or does it feel more like a cheap victory? I have the feeling that many guys search for a cheap victory and that was one of the points why I quit playing tournaments (most of the time I was in the down half or buttom part of the scoretable (40k and WHFB), but never wanted to play the metalists). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dez Posted June 8, 2017 Author Share Posted June 8, 2017 No I felt guilty. I'd much rather have a fun, challenging game than roflstomp people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlanceOnASix Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 11 hours ago, EMMachine said: Did it feel like an deserved victory after defeating your opponent in 2 Turns or less or does it feel more like a cheap victory? I have the feeling that many guys search for a cheap victory and that was one of the points why I quit playing tournaments (most of the time I was in the down half or buttom part of the scoretable (40k and WHFB), but never wanted to play the metalists). I don't think you are ever going to have a hard and fast yes or no to this question. Coming from a background of "tough" wargames like warmahordes I defiantly have a part of myself that says if it's in the book you have the choice to use it. Now whether you choose to do so is up to you, your environment, and the goals you set for your self in that environment. Did you put 100 bucks + hotel down at an event that your goal was to take first? Are you at your buddies basement and the cost of entry was a 6pack? Shape your lists off your goals. You will run into some folks that find a list like that enjoyable for pushing the boundaries of the game and giving their 2+save rerolling 1s list a decent game, you will see folks that complain you are overpowered because your "boats have soooo many wounds". These variances make me, at least when considering events with random strangers, consider my own goals of that event over what I believe "perception" will be. So I'd say avoid looking at it as "cheesy" or "poor sportsmanship" but when you want to win make a list that you believe you will win with, when you want to have an interactive back and forth game, make a list for that. I do wanna say however personally, that list strikes me as uninteractive with many elements of this game, and while it pushes the elements I think kharadron are best at to the limits, I can still imagine scenarios and terrain setup that could cause a loss due to scenario play. And just one loss or even "minor win" due to being so slow on foot has the potential to not "win" a major event. I would probably run the same sort of list, drop 1 Kemist and 20 Thunderers, take 1 Admiral, and 9 Endrinriggers with 2-3 harpoons. This way you can quad buff the endrinriggers's weapons, and get 31 'powerfists' somewhere 36inches into their backline, it also gives a combat unit to push back the front, and something to move forward and take and objective across the board. And in a foot list I like the battle shock immunity bubble. In my experiance, buffing the 9 skyhooks and 20 mortars is... 'enough'... ranged threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stato Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 On 2017-6-6 at 9:52 PM, Zahaladune said: Two great points made in support of why Riggers are just the better choice, outside of niche encounters. I wonder if there is a way to use the Mhornar Footnote to charge the Wardens in first off a boat, retreat them in the movement phase doing some free damage after the free attack, and then charge the Riggers in to finalize things. This would probably be over kill on a high Wound model, but might work for a kind of spear head that cleans up a larger unit; on top of whatever else is hiding in the boat ; ). Average damage may be against me here though. The Mhornar note is just a charge though not an actual attack (if i remember correctly), so wouldn't function like you suggest sadly. I asked this earlier in this thread as a charge in hero phase seemed almost pointless if it does not include as attack, but there are some possible uses for it. This was the post.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zahaladune Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 14 hours ago, stato said: The Mhornar note is just a charge though not an actual attack I miss spoke, what I meant to say was Pile in, attack, drop back and do extra damage, then charge with Riggers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Zeke Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Mhornar's ability is "Who Strikes First Strikes Hardest" and is actually your choice of an out of phase charge, or an out of phase pile in + attack. The trickiest (and still very situational) maneuver I can think of with the out of phase charge is to drop wardens/riggers from a boat, charge in the hero phase, retreat over the top of the unit with a run to get at objectives, etc in the backfield. Maybe some play in scenarios. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karchev23 Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 So im currently running KO at 1k pts atm till the rest of my stuff arrives. Both games ive played with them ive faced Khorne Daemons and both times ive beem tabled. Any tips for dealing with the old Blades of Khorne? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhorphorus Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 So are we all of the mindset that skyhooks are the best option hands down? Seems a shame seeing as you only get 1 per ten in the box Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FractalRain Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Zhorphorus, I think that is the general concensus, but definitely depends on your opponent. I use them to hunt heroes and monsters, but they work great for the longer range too. The other two special weapons are situational and you'd still want to have each unit focused - all three with the same, particularly if getting a Khemist buff on a weapon - in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlanceOnASix Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 2 hours ago, Karchev23 said: So im currently running KO at 1k pts atm till the rest of my stuff arrives. Both games ive played with them ive faced Khorne Daemons and both times ive beem tabled. Any tips for dealing with the old Blades of Khorne? I've had a lot of success with: Skycity Urbaz 2x Kemist 2x10 Arkanuts with hooks 9x Endrinriggers with 2x harpoons 10x Thunderers with mortars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlanceOnASix Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 2 hours ago, Zhorphorus said: So are we all of the mindset that skyhooks are the best option hands down? Seems a shame seeing as you only get 1 per ten in the box Zhor, if you get any of the jump troop boxes, you can get a 'skyhook launcher' out of those that is pretty easy to fit on the models. Depending on if you want to equip your balloon guys with any of the special weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick_Kid Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 2 hours ago, GlanceOnASix said: I've had a lot of success with: Skycity Urbaz 2x Kemist 2x10 Arkanuts with hooks 9x Endrinriggers with 2x harpoons 10x Thunderers with mortars I haven't played any game of AoS at this scale, but I was going to recommend a list like this. Perhaps even take out the Endrinriggers and replace them with more mortars if you have the models and want to capitalize on removing Khorne Krazies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dez Posted June 13, 2017 Author Share Posted June 13, 2017 I'd add another Grappling Hook to the Endrinriggers. TBH even 10 Mortars with the Khemists is more than crazy enough, the Endrinriggers will kill your opponents Bloodsecrator (which should be your primary target). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick_Kid Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 True. Come to think of it, 10 Mortars is plenty even in a 2000 pt game so that should be pretty good with 1 Khemist buff. Good call on the Bloodsecrator! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciddan Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Hi All, Just glueing together my Endrinriggers. Do you guys use them with Saws & Rivet Gun, or would anyone recommend any of the other weapons for them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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