Let's chat Kharadron Overlords

[Spinsane]

28 minutes ago, Simhis said:

100 pts left.

What do you guys think? Another unit of thunderers or skywardens?

If you keep the list as-is, I'd use that extra 100pts to expand the Thunderers unit to 10 members...

[Joakim]

I'm 'surprised' how few troops can be in the lists with 3 ships.

 

What is your plan to load the ships?

i guess neither 3 riggers or 5 thunderes are enough by them selves so one of the units should be larger.

 

is the premis for the list "one of each unit" are to be more competitive? Nothin wrong with either options just asking to know what feedback will be most useful  I'm still working on how my list should look. Still waiting for my models (which won't be enough for 2k anyway)

[Dez]

I think it's good to take lots of different things and switch it up when learning an army. Try taking more/less of a unit, swapping in different things, play as many games as you can trying different stuff. I find practical experience can sometimes be different than what you see on paper, especially when you figure out how different units can help with your overall playstyle and strategy.

[Mikester1487]

I've got a list with 3 ships as well, but it feels very small.  Plan on running with varying sizes of Thunderers and riggers just to see what they do.  I like the idea of having 2 frigates and an ironclad, but it just eliminates so many other things you can bring.

[Spinsane]

I've been juggling with ideas for armies, one day erring towards a Mhornar all-mounted fleet, and on others a Thryng Grundstock gunline. Here's the army I currently have in mind:

Barak Thryng (with There's No Trading)

Admiral (Fleetmaster)

Khemist (Earbuster)

10 Arkanauts (Skyhooks) x3

Gunhauler (Drill Cannon) x2

Ironclad (Volley Cannon, Last Hope or Repairing Hull)

Riggers (Grapnel x2) x6

Thunderers (Mortars) x10

The Thunderers, Characters, Riggers and one unit of Arkanauts begin in the Ironclad, whereas the two Gunhaulers deploy on either flank with a unit of Arkanauts in tow. The Ironclad can be deployed near one of the two Haulers and then either redeployed towards the other, or the second Gunhauler redeployed near the other two ships, so as to overwhelm one point of the enemy's line...

So far, I've quite liked the Haulers, but find the Escort Wing requires way too much to be playable...

[Mikester1487]

These damned ships are making it difficult to turn a profit for sure! All mine will be just different flavors of Zon.  All will kneel before Zon.

[Dez]

I'm not sold on Gunhaulers yet, though I am getting more and more into the Ironclad. 

Gunhaulers have short range, not many wounds, 5+ save...kinda flimsy.

The Ironclad is pretty beast, with a nice carrying capacity and firepower. It's also got it's Flaship rule. My mathhammer isn't the best, but I've found it does an average of 15 wounds to average units with a Mhornar general nearby (which is what I'm running). I'm considering putting a unit of 20 Thunderers with Aethercannons in it too, so they can pull up and unleash hell with Khemists jumping out to buff them and a big unit of Endrinriggers. It's Tsunami pattern offensive  Take this in the Iron Sky Command and you now can build a list to deploy in a couple of drops. You can also put the Thunderers on the back line with a Khemist and Mortars.

[Spinsane]

One thing I've been wondering, regarding the Haulers, is their interaction with Barak-Zilfin's special rule...

When a Frigate or Ironclad gets wounded, could one, in theory:

- Roll for Zilfin's 6+ save on the transport

- Reassign the wound to a Gunhauler on a 5+

- Roll for Zilfin's 6+ save again, this time on the 'hauler

This sounds abusive, but it seems it wouldn't be against the rules...

[Naflem]

8 minutes ago, Spinsane said:

One thing I've been wondering, regarding the Haulers, is their interaction with Barak-Zilfin's special rule...

When a Frigate or Ironclad gets wounded, could one, in theory:

- Roll for Zilfin's 6+ save on the transport

- Reassign the wound to a Gunhauler on a 5+

- Roll for Zilfin's 6+ save again, this time on the 'hauler

This sounds abusive, but it seems it wouldn't be against the rules...

Yeah, I think ****** like that happens with death ward saves and the look out sir type abilities of some of their leaders too.  I think that's definitely how it would work though. 

[Naflem]

Just now, Naflem said:

Yeah, I think ****** like that happens with death ward saves and the look out sir type abilities of some of their leaders too.  I think that's definitely how it would work though. 

Poo like that.

[Thomas Lyons]

14 minutes ago, Spinsane said:

One thing I've been wondering, regarding the Haulers, is their interaction with Barak-Zilfin's special rule...

When a Frigate or Ironclad gets wounded, could one, in theory:

- Roll for Zilfin's 6+ save on the transport

- Reassign the wound to a Gunhauler on a 5+

- Roll for Zilfin's 6+ save again, this time on the 'hauler

This sounds abusive, but it seems it wouldn't be against the rules...

Yes. This is absolutely how it works.  

In other news, I'm currently working on is one of the following three Zilfin lists.  I'd love to hear folk's thoughts.

Heavy Infantry 2k (7 drop)

480     40 Arkanaut Company (12 Light Skyhooks)

480     40 Arkanaut Company (12 Light Skyhooks)

120     10 Arkanaut Company (3 Light Skyhooks)

140     Admiral (General: Prospector, grants aoe battleshock immunity to infantry blocks)

100     Aether-Khemist

100     Aether-Khemist

280     Frigate (Aetherspheric Endrins)

·      100     Aether-Khemist w/Aethershock Earbuster

·      200     10 Thunderers (w/Aethercannons)

Mixed 1980 (2 drop)

360     30 Arkanaut Company (9 Light Skyhooks)

120     10 Arkanaut Company (3 Light Skyhooks)

280     Frigate (Aetherspheric Endrins)

·      100     Aether-Khemist w/Aethershock Earbuster

·      200     10 Thunderers (Aethercannons)

280     Frigate (Final Word)

·      240     6 Endrinriggers (6 w/Aethermatic Saws)

·      100     Aether-Khemist w/Aethershock Earbuster

·      120     10 Arkanaut Company (3 Light Skyhooks)

80       Ironsky Squadron

100     Aether-Khemist (General: Fleetmaster)

 

Ironsky Command 1980 (2 drop)

480     40 Arkanaut Company (12 Light Skyhooks)

100     Aether-Khemist (General: Doughty Champion)

440     Ironclad (Aetherspheric Endrins)

·      100     Aether-Khemist w/Aethershock Earbuster

·      100     Aether-Khemist w/Aethershock Earbuster (or Autotinkerer)

·      200     10 Thunderers (Aethercannons)

·      120     10 Arkanaut Company (3 Light Skyhooks)

·      240     6 Endrinriggers (5 Aethermatic Saws, 1 Grapnel Hook)

80         Ironsky Command

120     10 Arkanaut Company (3 Light Skyhooks)

 

Thoughts? 

[Dez]

I've been strongly considering lists like #2 and #3, but with Mhornar. 

[Bashpan]

 the second list is really good but probably better with another skyport Thryng or Mhornar.

[Thomas Lyons]

55 minutes ago, Bashpan said:

 the second list is really good but probably better with another skyport Thryng or Mhornar.

What makes you suggest that?

In my first Hero Phase, Zilfin lets me drop the Frigate with Aetherspheric Endrins in the enemy territory 9-12" out and their Footnote lets me move the other Frigate up before I unload the Endrinriggers.  This means that on turn 1, all of my units are within range of their guns and the Endrinriggers have an easy charge into a target on the front line.  Fleetmaster helps this since it lets me pick up the deployed Frigate and place it in the optimal spot after they've deployed everything.  And on top of all of this, everyone has reroll 1's to hit and wound against fliers, which are very present in the current meta (most heroes mounted on Monsters as well as the biggest beaters all are mostly fliers, as are strategic units like Skyfires).  

So Zilfin puts all of my ships and their crew within range of all of their guns at the top of Turn 1, as well as giving my Endrinriggers an easy 3" charge on a target on the front line.  It also allows them to be where they need to be on the battlefield and not huddled around a general for the rerolls to hit.  While I've seen the arguments for the other Barak's in competitive play, I really do think the Zilfin presents the strongest suite of abilities while being the most flexible. 

[Dez]

The above is why I was strongly considering Zilfin. Still might

[Bashpan]

29 minutes ago, Thomas Lyons said:

What makes you suggest that?

In my first Hero Phase, Zilfin lets me drop the Frigate with Aetherspheric Endrins in the enemy territory 9-12" out and their Footnote lets me move the other Frigate up before I unload the Endrinriggers.  This means that on turn 1, all of my units are within range of their guns and the Endrinriggers have an easy charge into a target on the front line.  Fleetmaster helps this since it lets me pick up the deployed Frigate and place it in the optimal spot after they've deployed everything.  And on top of all of this, everyone has reroll 1's to hit and wound against fliers, which are very present in the current meta (most heroes mounted on Monsters as well as the biggest beaters all are mostly fliers, as our strategic units like Skyfires).  

So Zilfin puts all of my ships and their crew within range of all of their guns at the top of Turn 1, as well as giving my Endrinriggers an easy 3" charge on a target on the front line.  It also allows them to be where they need to be on the battlefield and not huddled around a general for the rerolls to hit.  While I've seen the arguments for the other Barak's in competitive play, I really do think the Zilfin presents the strongest suite of abilities while being the most flexible. 

The problem with the deep strike is that you need to clean everything in the zone that you drop the ship i know that the extras of using zilfin are really good (1 rerolls against drakes or skyfires LoC etc) that means that ur unit of 10 thunderes/khemist need to deal with everything in the zone you deploy them or using the frigate as defensive u can.

[Thomas Lyons]

8 minutes ago, Bashpan said:

The problem with the deep strike is that you need to clean everything in the zone that you drop the ship i know that the extras of using zilfin are really good (1 rerolls against drakes or skyfires LoC etc) that means that ur unit of 10 thunderes/khemist need to deal with everything in the zone you deploy them or using the frigate as defensive u can.

You just need to drop 9" out from your target.  The key is to hit them from multiple fronts/angles at once.  The reality is that your thunderers/frigate drop in this list is expendable.  It is there to punch an enemy unit hard and force them to either come after your unit or die (since the Thunderers do so much damage).  If you position yourself well and assuming they don't die to the barrage, you can pull the enemy off of key objectives or out of position in trying to deal with this Frigate.  

[Acid_Nine]

in defense of Mhornar, both the footnotes and the command trait are really bloody good. The command trait obviously allows us to target something and try to kill it dead in our strongest phase, but the footnotes both unique and These are just guidelines are also very good.

 

the unique foot notes so far sealed the victory for the last three games I played. Get your enginriggers locked into combat from an enemy turn, and come your hero phase you buff the saws up by one and then use the foot note to pile in and attack like the combat phase. This is purely insane! hitting that while face to face with some blood crushers or skull crushers ensures that you could potentially kill half the squad with this and the hero phase combined only to finish off the rest in the real combat phase. It's a sucker punch that you can only use once, but once you use it it can flatten the opponent's heavy hitters.  not to mention the -1 to enemy bravery when within 3 inches, which when combined with the earburster can ensure a few extra guys flee both in the shooting and hero phase!

 

that, and having the chance to get a new article that allows us to copy another port's main feature is great! getting a grudge rule or the zifflin rule is perfect while the rest could help more than the base article Mhornar gets. it's a huge chance to get something good, but it would be worth it if you already have battleshock shenanigans like the admiral in your army.

 

 

[Joakim]

6 hours ago, Thomas Lyons said:

You just need to drop 9" out from your target.  The key is to hit them from multiple fronts/angles at once.  The reality is that your thunderers/frigate drop in this list is expendable.  It is there to punch an enemy unit hard and force them to either come after your unit or die (since the Thunderers do so much damage).  If you position yourself well and assuming they don't die to the barrage, you can pull the enemy off of key objectives or out of position in trying to deal with this Frigate.  

I doubt nobody is questioning the Zilfin potential however I feel at this point the question is rather what are the response other players are contemplating in response to the Zilfin alpha strike. I think the options available to other armies will hint to the potential weakness of the list. If the opponents key units are bubble wrapped with expendable units and you only have 12" range then the strike wont be as effective as you want and the thunderes may get removed next turn.  (can they be covered from brutal battleshock test when they start dying?).
Also if your opponent can force you not to drop turn one then he is starting to win on you (so to say), as every round your ship with crew is in the skies they do nothing.

So does the Zilfin list have a plan B is perhaps the question?

 

Also everybody can see how well the Riggers benefit from a kemist however how likely are they to be in 10" range after dropping when they can move 12" and then charge? Then their 1 attack per model becomes dicy and variable. Again not saying they are bad just that the theories may translate a bit rough : )

[Dez]

There is still board control, if your opponent knows it is coming they'll more than likely bubble wrap and deploy in a denied flank. So there is value in it, to be sure so you prepare for both scenarios IMO Board control is normally my first concern when building a list with scenarios in mind, of course.

I think I'll be setting mine up knowing they won't get another buff, hence the Grappling Hooks and taking groups of 9. They'll hopefully just roll over whatever I send them at, then they can shoot and grapple to a new target taking objectives or killing off problems. I'm not opposed to taking them in units of 12 either, they are cheap enough imo.

 

[Mikester1487]

To me the biggest obstacle in list building is trying to stop units that have just annihilated me in the past. Things with a 2up rerolling 1s save like fulminators have.  When I came across these at adepticon there was no way to approach them successfully that didn't involve me getting my face removed.  

As we have less access to mortal wound generation it appears that the answer is kind of orky.  Our skyhooks will blot out the sun in other words.  Would that be fair to say?

[Joakim]

12 minutes ago, Mikester1487 said:

To me the biggest obstacle in list building is trying to stop units that have just annihilated me in the past. Things with a 2up rerolling 1s save like fulminators have.  When I came across these at adepticon there was no way to approach them successfully that didn't involve me getting my face removed.  

As we have less access to mortal wound generation it appears that the answer is kind of orky.  Our skyhooks will blot out the sun in other words.  Would that be fair to say?

Try to hold up that unit with a ship and hope that will slow them down/keep out of the way?

 

i fully understand that board control is key but given that a loaded ironclad may be 700 points then the opponent will win part of that game by delaying deployment or forcing non optimal deployment of the ironclad using cheaper troops, i guess. Having a relative low model count army KO may be a target it self to deep striking beyond the 3x10 companies

[Dez]

Yeah you keep feeding Arkanaut Company into the machine, had to do that vs Bloodbound last week. Though with the shooting...it didn't matter in the long run. 

Fulminators/Concussors are going to have to be weight of fire and forcing a LOT of saves. Which we can do...with MORTARS!

[Thomas Lyons]

2 hours ago, Joakim said:

Also if your opponent can force you not to drop turn one then he is starting to win on you (so to say), as every round your ship with crew is in the skies they do nothing.

So does the Zilfin list have a plan B is perhaps the question?

Also everybody can see how well the Riggers benefit from a kemist however how likely are they to be in 10" range after dropping when they can move 12" and then charge? Then their 1 attack per model becomes dicy and variable. Again not saying they are bad just that the theories may translate a bit rough : )

Just because you don't drop on turn 1 doesn't mean you are losing.  You are still controlling their movement by the looming threat of your deep strike.  As long as you aren't losing objective points, you're fine.  The reality is that you'll still be putting pressure on them with your big block of Company and second frigate.  Sometimes the right answer will be to drop the frigate in front of the advancing enemy and let them beat on it for a round while dumping the Thunderers out the back (using the ships to body block and giving your other units more time to shoot).  

Regarding the riggers, the ship that spit out the riggers can advance in front of the khemist such that the Khemist has a chance to advance behind them and continue to buff the riggers (assuming that they didn't over extend themselves.  

[Zahaladune]

So, got some questions for the group.  I know I'm reaching a bit, but hear me out and give some feedback.

The SkyVessels model the Navigator on the outside of the ship, as if the navigator is meant to be vigilant in his duties.  Modeled this way, my navigator can see the ships in his fleet, as well as his own.  Does this allow me to use the Aetheric Navigation ability while the model is embarked? 

I know the rules clearly state he can use his own ability while embarked -for his own ship- but was hoping someone could give me some opinion on this.  Seems like you are not supposed to, but I wouldn't be a good Mhornarigan if I didn't try to bend things to my benefit.

 

P.S. can the Nav. unbind spells while embarked?  If none of these things, this guy has no role on the ship, and might as well be a backline unit, thus making the SkyVessel modeling pointless.  Maybe an argument for RAI, but but not RAW; seems stupid to model him on there when he will never be taken as such without these amendments to his rules...