Lets chat: Beastclaw Raiders

[hughwyeth]

4 hours ago, AthlorianStoners said:

Played a few games with an allied in troll hag (used a counts as model to keep visual theme). Worked really well, though it could also be due to my opponents never facing one before.

As someone yet to have any Beastclaw models, how did you use it effectively?

[AthlorianStoners]

2 hours ago, hughwyeth said:

As someone yet to have any Beastclaw models, how did you use it effectively?

I used him (my version is an Ogor dude) as a support and synergetic unit in the first few turns. 

Hes slower than most of my units so I knew he wouldn’t be in combat straight away. To that end, I ran him as a backfield and support unit, mystic shielding, unbunding when I could and debuffing when he got in range. 

Once closer, I concentrated his shooting with my Thundertusks, wiping units basically outright. As the game drew on I pushed him into combat at basically full health and dropped my thundertusks behind him, effectively moving them in a wedge formation and throwing mortal wounds in huge bunches at whatever I needed to kill. 

This was against Khorne and Ironjawz, so there wasn’t really a shooting/magic threat, but with more experience with the unit I think I can cook up some fun combos. 

I’m thinking a potential list could be: 

 

Huskard on Thundertusk (380)

Huskard on Thundertusk (380)

Troggoth Hag (Ally) (360)

Fungoid Cave Shaman (80)

Mournfang Cavalry (160)

Mourfang Cavalry (160)

Stonehorn Beastriders (360)

Yhetee’s (120)

It’s a lot of drops, but I don’t mind my opponent picking first. Use the Yhetee’s and Mournfang as a frontline/screens, while I push the Stonehorn up early and try use him as a distraction. Keep the shaman in the backfield and run the Tusks and the Hag in a mortal Wound Block, the Tusks healing each other up. Don’t see being a super competitive list but it could be fun. 

 

 

[Harken]

13 hours ago, AthlorianStoners said:

I used him (my version is an Ogor dude) as a support and synergetic unit in the first few turns. 

Hes slower than most of my units so I knew he wouldn’t be in combat straight away. To that end, I ran him as a backfield and support unit, mystic shielding, unbunding when I could and debuffing when he got in range. 

Once closer, I concentrated his shooting with my Thundertusks, wiping units basically outright. As the game drew on I pushed him into combat at basically full health and dropped my thundertusks behind him, effectively moving them in a wedge formation and throwing mortal wounds in huge bunches at whatever I needed to kill. 

This was against Khorne and Ironjawz, so there wasn’t really a shooting/magic threat, but with more experience with the unit I think I can cook up some fun combos. 

I’m thinking a potential list could be: 

 

Huskard on Thundertusk (380)

Huskard on Thundertusk (380)

Troggoth Hag (Ally) (360)

Fungoid Cave Shaman (80)

Mournfang Cavalry (160)

Mourfang Cavalry (160)

Stonehorn Beastriders (360)

Yhetee’s (120)

It’s a lot of drops, but I don’t mind my opponent picking first. Use the Yhetee’s and Mournfang as a frontline/screens, while I push the Stonehorn up early and try use him as a distraction. Keep the shaman in the backfield and run the Tusks and the Hag in a mortal Wound Block, the Tusks healing each other up. Don’t see being a super competitive list but it could be fun. 

 

 

Interesting list, wouldnt you go past the ally max points though? I believe it is 400 for a 2000pt army, or does the fungoid not count as an ally?

[AthlorianStoners]

1 hour ago, Harken said:

Interesting list, wouldnt you go past the ally max points though? I believe it is 400 for a 2000pt army, or does the fungoid not count as an ally?

Yeah fungoid doesn’t count to your ally points thankfully. 

[annarborhawk]

Update from the field:

Played 2x 2000 pt games vs. Maggotkin yesterday.  Total Domination for the BCR.

Frostlord - Stonehorn - Tokens

Huskard - Thundertusk - Buzzard

Thundertusk Riders

Mournfang - Gargant Hackers

Mournfang - Gargent Hackers

Yehtis

vs.

Glotkin

Bloab (?) Rotspawn

Sorceror

Lord of Blights

5xBlightKings

5xBlightKings

5xBlightKing

Nurglings

(BlIght Cyst Battalion)

I am building a Nurgle Army (as is my opponent) and we wanted to see if it could pass the test against good-old BCR. It couldn't. At all.

In both games I quickly dispatched  all four heroes by end of 2nd turn.  This mortal nurgle list had no answer for Thundertusks. And the Frostlord on Tokens just scythed through.  Played like the OP BCR of 2016 - just mowing down everything in their path.  So it can still be done against even a newer battletome army. Admittedly not the strongest Nurgle list, bit still.  

[hughwyeth]

26 minutes ago, annarborhawk said:

Update from the field:

Played 2x 2000 pt games vs. Maggotkin yesterday.  Total Domination for the BCR.

Frostlord - Stonehorn - Tokens

Huskard - Thundertusk - Buzzard

Thundertusk Riders

Mournfang - Gargant Hackers

Mournfang - Gargent Hackers

Yehtis

vs.

Glotkin

Bloab (?) Rotspawn

Sorceror

Lord of Blights

5xBlightKings

5xBlightKings

5xBlightKing

Nurglings

(BlIght Cyst Battalion)

I am building a Nurgle Army (as is my opponent) and we wanted to see if it could pass the test against good-old BCR. It couldn't. At all.

In both games I quickly dispatched  all four heroes by end of 2nd turn.  This mortal nurgle list had no answer for Thundertusks. And the Frostlord on Tokens just scythed through.  Played like the OP BCR of 2016 - just mowing down everything in their path.  So it can still be done against even a newer battletome army. Admittedly not the strongest Nurgle list, bit still.  

I suspect if he swaped 10 blightkings for 30 plaguebearers there'd be a better chance for Nurgle! It's the major issue with mortal nurgle forces is they don't have the resilience that defines a Nurgle force. Straight mortal Nurgle is a different force to mixed or daemons. 

[annarborhawk]

1 hour ago, hughwyeth said:

I suspect if he swaped 10 blightkings for 30 plaguebearers there'd be a better chance for Nurgle! It's the major issue with mortal nurgle forces is they don't have the resilience that defines a Nurgle force. Straight mortal Nurgle is a different force to mixed or daemons. 

Totally agree. Although the real problem he had was there was no way to defend the Glottkin from the 12 mortal wounds from the thundertusks. I think my point is that there are still some good match-ups out there for pure BCR.  BCR can still ask some tough questions for an opponent. Yes, there are plenty of GHB 2017 scenarios where there is distinct disadvantage, and so maybe pure BCR can't win tournaments. But games can still be won.  

 

Maybe my final take-away is that I'm going to hold on to my BCR army. A couple of changes in GHB 2018 or AOS-2 could see them return to competitiveness. 

[hughwyeth]

2 hours ago, annarborhawk said:

Totally agree. Although the real problem he had was there was no way to defend the Glottkin from the 12 mortal wounds from the thundertusks. I think my point is that there are still some good match-ups out there for pure BCR.  BCR can still ask some tough questions for an opponent. Yes, there are plenty of GHB 2017 scenarios where there is distinct disadvantage, and so maybe pure BCR can't win tournaments. But games can still be won.  

 

Maybe my final take-away is that I'm going to hold on to my BCR army. A couple of changes in GHB 2018 or AOS-2 could see them return to competitiveness. 

That's great to hear! I personally find scenarios outside of the 6 matched play ones in GH17 are great, especially open play cards. BCR can still do great there.

RE Thundertusk mortal wounds- they should be able to keep Glottkin back behind some plaguebearers to shield him, but yes it's still hard for any unit without a disgustingly resilient type save to do much against that attack!

[Anaticula]

I think this belongs in here.

[Kramer]

Ogor generals from colder regions! I come looking for you advice! 

I'm looking at the Beastclaw raiders box for a allied centrepiece model*. But i'm unsure how to build it. What would be your suggestions?
I'm playing a footslogging pure gutbusters army with no cannons. So i'm a bit torn between building the thundertusk to have some ranged options or a stonehorn to add something with some speed that can run around with little support.

Also Huskard for the hero keyword? So it can contest objectives in certain scenario's?

Thanks all! 

 

*I already own 4 mournfang, a hunter and 4 cats, so it will make a good starting point to maybe build it further out if I want to later. 

[Anaticula]

12 minutes ago, Kramer said:

Ogor generals from colder regions! I come looking for you advice! 

I'm looking at the Beastclaw raiders box for a allied centrepiece model*. But i'm unsure how to build it. What would be your suggestions?
I'm playing a footslogging pure gutbusters army with no cannons. So i'm a bit torn between building the thundertusk to have some ranged options or a stonehorn to add something with some speed that can run around with little support.

Quick opening remark: The colder regions come with them. BCR are running from the Everwinter.

For a big beast I would recommend magnetizing the head. You can even magnetize the saddle but that is too much for me. If Thundertusk, then Huskard for the extra abilities you don't get with riders. Stonehorn is awesome but can die quickly.

[Kramer]

2 hours ago, Anaticula said:

Quick opening remark: The colder regions come with them. BCR are running from the Everwinter.

For a big beast I would recommend magnetizing the head. You can even magnetize the saddle but that is too much for me. If Thundertusk, then Huskard for the extra abilities you don't get with riders. Stonehorn is awesome but can die quickly.

Oh that is a good suggestion! Will definitely do that! Sometimes the solution can be so easy  

thanks!

[AthlorianStoners]

So was thinking about a hypothetical (but in my opinion inevitable) update to the BCR Battletome. 

I’ll seperate them into two sections, one involving new models and one about other changes they could implement. 

1) Make Huskards Priests 

Something that I feel should have happened straight away, Huskards are limited in what they can do and really should become priests to better reflect their role in ther fluff. 

2) Add a prayers table 

Goes hand in hand with the above post. Giving them more than the two default options they have on their warscroll would be a huge boon.

3) Special Character on Stonehorn 

Taking a leaf out of Prince Vhordrai’s book, make a special character on Stonehorn. Give him the old Stonehorn’s rules, as well as a different melee profile to the frostlord and command abilities. Lore wise he can be a relation of (or even be) Beargut Vosjarl. An increase in points would also be needed. 

4) Huskard On Mournfang 

Similar to the Blightlord on Plaguedrone kit from Nurgle, have the option to build this as a hero. Provides cheaper synergy and variation and allows for more access to the prayers table. 

5) POSSIBLE Make the Bloodvulture it’s own profile 

Just a throwaway idea. Put it on the smallest base available and make it have some synergetic or useful rules. Just an idea. 

in terms of new models, I don’t know how likely this is but ideally I’d like to see: 

1) Plastic Icebrow, Sabres and Yhetees

A much needed update, I think these would sell really well with good sculpts. 

2) Give Gorger the BCR keyword 

Something I think should have happened from launch. Adds a bit more variety to the faction. 

I don’t expect a huge update but all of these seem easily done and would majorly revamp the faction. They’re a very popular army and I imagine they will get an update again at some point.

[Malakree]

So personally I'm against the priest route, it's less interactive than wizards. 

I wouldn't change huskards I'd instead add an entirely new hero.

"Blizzard Speaker" who can be mounted on a mournfang or a Stonehorn, is a wizard with a unique spell "Everwinter Comes" select d3 units within 12" the opponent takes -1 to hit and any unit which activates within 3" of them takes d3 mortals.

Then two new gnoblars units for bcr. Gnoblars on frost wolves, 2 wounds 10 for 140/300 as battleline, smallest oval bases no range and terrible attacks.

Gnoblars warbows on mournfangs, bcr Battleline. Pair of gnoblars on each mournfang which a huge x bow between them, 120 points for 3. 24" range 3 shots 5+/4+/-1/1

That would give bcr a bunch of tools without changing the aesthetic and in the current ogor theme.

[Antonio Rodrigues]

4 hours ago, Malakree said:

So personally I'm against the priest route, it's less interactive than wizards. 

I wouldn't change huskards I'd instead add an entirely new hero.

"Blizzard Speaker" who can be mounted on a mournfang or a Stonehorn, is a wizard with a unique spell "Everwinter Comes" select d3 units within 12" the opponent takes -1 to hit and any unit which activates within 3" of them takes d3 mortals.

Then two new gnoblars units for bcr. Gnoblars on frost wolves, 2 wounds 10 for 140/300 as battleline, smallest oval bases no range and terrible attacks.

Gnoblars warbows on mournfangs, bcr Battleline. Pair of gnoblars on each mournfang which a huge x bow between them, 120 points for 3. 24" range 3 shots 5+/4+/-1/1

That would give bcr a bunch of tools without changing the aesthetic and in the current ogor theme.

The problem I see here is that there are no mention whatsoever to Gnoblars on the BCR battletome, neither they appear on any BCR minis... actually, they are not Even Gnoblars anymore, just some generic grots...

unless GW rethink them as some kind of Ice Grots (which would look fantastic), I dont see this happening...

AJ

[AthlorianStoners]

4 hours ago, Malakree said:

So personally I'm against the priest route, it's less interactive than wizards. 

I wouldn't change huskards I'd instead add an entirely new hero.

"Blizzard Speaker" who can be mounted on a mournfang or a Stonehorn, is a wizard with a unique spell "Everwinter Comes" select d3 units within 12" the opponent takes -1 to hit and any unit which activates within 3" of them takes d3 mortals.

Then two new gnoblars units for bcr. Gnoblars on frost wolves, 2 wounds 10 for 140/300 as battleline, smallest oval bases no range and terrible attacks.

Gnoblars warbows on mournfangs, bcr Battleline. Pair of gnoblars on each mournfang which a huge x bow between them, 120 points for 3. 24" range 3 shots 5+/4+/-1/1

That would give bcr a bunch of tools without changing the aesthetic and in the current ogor theme.

While I agree that wizards are better than priests, I feel that priests are still better than huskards in what they can achieve and I feel it’s more likely to see huskards become priests than wizards.

[Malakree]

5 hours ago, AthlorianStoners said:

While I agree that wizards are better than priests, I feel that priests are still better than huskards in what they can achieve and I feel it’s more likely to see huskards become priests than wizards.

Yeah it's why I suggested leaving huskards as is and adding an entirely new hero type as a wizard. 

Giving both the option to come on a mournfang distinguishes the huskard as a smaller scale leader to the Frostlord general.

6 hours ago, Antonio Rodrigues said:

unless GW rethink them as some kind of Ice Grots (which would look fantastic), I dont see this happening...

AJ

That's kind of what I was imagining. The reason I say "gnoblars" instead of grots is because aesthetically gnoblars are more disorganised and less effective combat wise.

Gnoblars are the lowest camp followers of ogor warbands compared to traditional "goblins" who are able to form waaagh! In their own right.

Imagine a bunch of unruly poorly equipped grots who have found a smaller type of frost sabre that tolerates them as they "ride" into battle trying to imitate the ogors on their mournfangs. The grot "warbows" are then just other races longbows setup like a batista with a pair of grots on the back of a mournfang. A grot equivalent to a Stonehorn or thundertusk. 

So they play the gnoblars to the bcr Gutbusters. It gives bcr a more numerous option without compromising the bcr/Gutbusters dichotomy or the larger ogor aesthetic as compared to the greener parts of destruction. 

[Kytlock]

Hello! I am a newly interested BCR player. Everyone around me has SCE, Nurgle, and soon to be Deepkin. So I wanted two things, a beautiful army and something different. I found a steal of a deal on a BCR lot and here's what I am getting; (all NIB)

Icewind Assault

2x Stonehorns

2x Mournfang Cavalry (box of 4 each)

3x Metal Yetis (need stripping, but already pinned)

4x Frost Sabres.

 

So how should I look to run these guys? What's a decent beginner list to learn with? Thanks guys!

[Malakree]

10 minutes ago, Kytlock said:

Icewind Assault

2x Stonehorns

2x Mournfang Cavalry (box of 4 each)

3x Metal Yetis (need stripping, but already pinned)

4x Frost Sabres.

• Are these in addition to the icewind assault?
• How many points you after?
• What kind of a list are you after?
• How competitive is your local scene?

[Kytlock]

18 minutes ago, Malakree said:

• Are these in addition to the icewind assault?
• How many points you after?
• What kind of a list are you after?
• How competitive is your local scene?

1. Yup! That list is everything I am getting, so the other stuff is on top of IA. 
2. 1k and 2k.
3. Casual fun.
4. Not at all. We just play for fun. 

[Malakree]

@Kytlock So I'm not a BCR player, I've followed it (as it was my 2nd choice of army) but other than that I'll give mainly hobby tips etc.

First suggestion is to look at this thread 

It's an amazing resource and while depressing a worthy read none the less. This is especially true as you're not running "competitively".

From a hobby perspective, pin/magnetise your Stonehorns/Thundertusks if the colour schemes for both are similar enough, it greatly increases your flexibility meaning you can run any combination of the full 4 behemoths at 2k. 

In terms of gaming, one thing I would say, is that the current set of pitched battles, and the points costs, are unfavourable to BCR. Since you are playing in a friendly environment potentially look at exploring some of the other battleplans, like the narrative/siege ones or the new Malign Portents ones. Firestorm and skirmish are also a great ways to mix it up. I bring this up because realistically, at least until GHB 2018 (eta August) BCR are really under-performing. As a result you might find that when playing "balanced" games, in the form of pitched battles, you are left feeling disillusioned (I know I get that way after some tournament matches and I'm playing Ironjawz!). So if you're purely playing for fun then playing fast and loose with the scenarios is going to be a better experience for everyone involved.

I really hope this doesn't put you off in anyway, I highly doubt this isn't something which will be fixed around august time (with the new GBH) and to be honest you're probably still going to be painting by then! 

[Kessler]

I'd like to add that heywoah_twitch's thread is great from competitive point of view, but as Malakree pointed out, might be depressing. 

On the bright side the BCR is very fun and beautiful army to play. In casual games it's pretty good - I have mostly played Braggoth's Beast Hammer  battalion, it has been great and not at all underwhelming. Just time your charges well, aim your charges well, use your great mobility and you are good to go.

You can check my blog for few Braggoth's battalion battle reports:

 

[heywoah_twitch]

10 hours ago, Kessler said:

I'd like to add that heywoah_twitch's thread is great from competitive point of view, but as Malakree pointed out, might be depressing. 

First of all :*(

Secondly thanks! I was hoping the thread would be a progression of tactical improvement where I learned through lots of practice how to really take a downtrodden army and do well with it competitively, but it ended up more of a deep dive into why and how exactly they don't cut it.

That being said, as @Malakree pointed out and as @annarborhawk games showed, don't count us entirely out - we still got one golden arrow in our quiver:

The bigger they are, the harder they fall (to the Everwinter).

The more big centerpiece monsters and elite troops your opponent is running, the better we will do. Thundertusks and big 3 damage rend weapons are gas against expensive soldiers and low-woundcount-but-high-armor dudes. In the rock paper scissors of a metagame, we are the Elite Army that hunts the other Elite Armies - and that can be fun! (as my triple bloodthirster archaon opponent found out...)

[Kytlock]

Well, it still sounds like I can have some fun. Hopefully in the future they can make the army a little more well-rounded. 

 

Either way, I’m incredibly excited about painting these guys up. I really like the models. 

[Malakree]

44 minutes ago, Kytlock said:

Well, it still sounds like I can have some fun. Hopefully in the future they can make the army a little more well-rounded. 

 

Either way, I’m incredibly excited about painting these guys up. I really like the models. 

Ghb 2017 boned most of destruction. That sounds really negative but actually it's really positive. With gbh being yearly now each August it's going to be rebalanced far more often.

I expect destruction will see across the board buffs or points cost reduction. 

Which, as I said above, means it will probably hit as you are getting close to 2k!