Lets Chat Wanderers / Wood Elves compendium

[Aezeal]

4 hours ago, Frozenbeast said:

So while I could be convinced on the SotW firing twice after using the trait (and maybe the EG using FoB too, but that seems trickier), I am really really really not convinced about the set-up within 9" of enemy units. I mean everything is there to prove the exact contrary of what they ruled in that tournament:

I'm on the same page as you. About the latter: I don't think this is how the teleport is written let alone how it's intended. About the former: this is just not written in a way that this can be interpreted either way and the intentions are not clear to me either but given the arguments I could see them ruling this  in our favor.

[Frozenbeast]

46 minutes ago, BillyOcean said:

 

Ha  - yes I agree they employ some pretty loose usage of the word "move", and that Eternal Guard is the murkiest example.

But I still follow the logic that although set-ups are in general not defined as moves, the specific Realm Wanderers set-up is defined as a move, and that specific rules trump general rules. I think the more favorable interpretation may well be GW's intention and I'd love to use it (just assembled 30 EG), but I won't until GW clarify because I'd hate to gain advantage if its not correct. I'd love to see that clarification before the next big FAQ, because it shouldn't be on us to walk these linguistic tightropes to figure out what our units cab do!

agreed!! although I don t feel like being unfair if ppl agree on the interpretation even if GW has not clarify i; considering Tzeentch exists and SCE exist and bullocks skaven shinanigans exist if I can gain some power from agreed interpretation I ll do it. Of course without taking enjoyment from the game.

[Frozenbeast]

13 minutes ago, Graftonianman said:

Which tournament did they rule that way?

from what I understood one of us played one GW tournament and the referee (or whatever is called who mediate the games) allowed him to use the last FAQ to "deepstrike" one unit within 3" on an enemy unit as long as said unit was wholly within 6" of one table edge with the Realm Wanderers allegiance trait. PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG GUYS!

The thing seems a bit clunky as a movement (or set-up) could not end within 3" of an enemy unit but even if it was UP TO 3" from an enemy unit i think the interpretation is wrong.

[BillyOcean]

32 minutes ago, Graftonianman said:

Which tournament did they rule that way?

I believe Baz played in a tournament where another Wanderers player was allowed to set up in combat, after clearing it with the TO.

 

25 minutes ago, Frozenbeast said:

agreed!! although I don t feel like being unfair if ppl agree on the interpretation even if GW has not clarify i; considering Tzeentch exists and SCE exist and bullocks skaven shinanigans exist if I can gain some power from agreed interpretation I ll do it. Of course without taking enjoyment from the game.

Absolutely. And lets be clear - I don't think that allowing EG or SotW to use their rules after teleporting in any way makes those units (or the faction as a whole) overpowered, given what else is out there. In fact, in the case of SoTW its almost essential to make them worth their sky-high cost. And if an opponent or TO wants to play it that way, then thats fine of course. I'm just not going to argue for it, until theres a clarification.

As for setting up in combat using SoHP, that probably wouldn't make the faction OP either. But I do think its clearly the wrong interpretation, and counter to the direction GW is  going with other similar rules. I also just kind of hate that playstyle in general, so will be happy to see it clarified out of existence. 

[Graftonianman]

14 minutes ago, BillyOcean said:

As for setting up in combat using SoHP, that probably wouldn't make the faction OP either. But I do think its clearly the wrong interpretation, and counter to the direction GW is  going with other similar rules. I also just kind of hate that playstyle in general, so will be happy to see it clarified out of existence. 

Haha totally agree

[Aezeal]

I'm still struggeling with theoryhammering my mixed order list.

Currently I'm thinking about:

1. where we left of a few months ago:

Hurricanum + mage      380

Nomad Prince                  80

4x waywatcher (lord)   400

2 x 20 GG                            480

1 x 5 reavers                      160

2 x 5 waywatchers         160

1 x 10 Executioners       180

2 x 5 wardancers              160

2000

or

2. this newer list:

Hurricanum + mage     380

Loremaster                         100

4x waywatcher (lord)    400

2 x 5 waywatchers         160

1 x 20 GG                            240

2 x 5 Reavers                     320

1 x 10 Executioners       180

2x reaperbolt thrower 240

2020

This list removed the nomad prince and GG for the room to put 2 boltthrowers and a lore master, more reavers since they are cheaper than 20 GG and fill my need for some movement. 

The original idea was going lots of wanderer models and try to maximize on synergy with the hurricanum. The executioners really get a power boost with the hurricanum but to be honest for the waywatchers (hero and unit) it's not that impressive so I'm thinking I might need to let that go. I've also deleted the nomad prince since it had less and less wanderers to benefit from his command ability anyway (The waywatcher also targets wanderers but are already in the list for their shooting and synergy with the hurricanum).

Now the new list has the shooting I like to see (the first is a bit light on it for my taste).. sadly it's 20 points overweight and severely lack melee.

So my questions

1. Are there better alternatives for a general in order which can do more with the command ability (and are worth loosing a waywatcher in shooting over).

2. While the loremaster buff on a boltthrower is nice (giving about 9.5 wounds (instead of 5.3 before saving at -1) AND giving a dispell I could get another waywatcher which is appealing too.. or (ALMOST) just another boltthrower .

3. Are there better cheap (need to save points)  battleline options preferably ones that don't shine at 20+ models. The reavers in the list will probably end up being used as speedbumps since I've got nothing else to use in that role... and it's not really what they are made to do (to expensive). Dryads are nice but in 10's I don't think they are optimal. EG would have been nice but are not battleline.

4. If I where to put a monster in there would you go phoenix, forest dragon, sisters of twilight or treelord (ancient)?

And of course a more open question: which list would you take and what would you change in general?

[Aelfric]

5 hours ago, BillyOcean said:

 

Ha  - yes I agree they employ some pretty loose usage of the word "move", and that Eternal Guard is the murkiest example.

But I still follow the logic that although set-ups are in general not defined as moves, the specific Realm Wanderers set-up is defined as a move, and that specific rules trump general rules. I think the more favorable interpretation may well be GW's intention and I'd love to use it (just assembled 30 EG), but I won't until GW clarify because I'd hate to gain advantage if its not correct. I'd love to see that clarification before the next big FAQ, because it shouldn't be on us to walk these linguistic tightropes to figure out what our units cab do!

It is confusing, because the trait says "travel along a hidden pathway instead of making a move" at the beginning and "This is the unit's move for that movement phase".  These statements cannot both be right.  Either they have made a move as defined by the core rules or they have made a set-up.  It can't be both because the definition of a set-up in the new FAQ makes it clear that a set-up is not a move but a different method of changing a unit's location.  

If I were to set up 30 Glade Guard this way within 10" of a Gryph-hound could I argue that my opponent couldn't fire at me because it was a move and not a set-up?  I think I would have one very disgruntled opponent.

It is clear in every other army that has a set-up ability that this is an alternative to a standard move and the FAQ re-iterates this.  Why would the Wanderers trait not follow the same ruling?

It seems that I am fortunate, though, because I have discussed this with the owner of my local store and he has come to the same conclusion and the few games I do play are likely to be there.  I played a game against his Flesh-eater Courts which was fun and a close win for the Courts.  I will, of course, discuss this with other opponents before a game and if they are not happy then I will not push it.  It is not over-powered or game-changing.  It does give more tactical options, which is great.  But the best thing for me was a liberating sense that I was playing Wanderers more as they are meant to be - it just felt more Wandery.  

[Yeled]

9 hours ago, Frozenbeast said:

So while I could be convinced on the SotW firing twice after using the trait (and maybe the EG using FoB too, but that seems trickier), I am really really really not convinced about the set-up within 9" of enemy units. I mean everything is there to prove the exact contrary of what they ruled in that tournament:

I agree with you on this. I'm not sure about the Teleporting and warscroll abilities, but on this point I think it's pretty clear that the Stalker of the Hidden Paths  is meant to modify the existing rule, not overwrite it.

[Graftonianman]

2 hours ago, Aezeal said:

I'm still struggeling with theoryhammering my mixed order list.

Currently I'm thinking about:

1. where we left of a few months ago:

Hurricanum + mage      380

Nomad Prince                  80

4x waywatcher (lord)   400

2 x 20 GG                            480

1 x 5 reavers                      160

2 x 5 waywatchers         160

1 x 10 Executioners       180

2 x 5 wardancers              160

2000

or

2. this newer list:

Hurricanum + mage     380

Loremaster                         100

4x waywatcher (lord)    400

2 x 5 waywatchers         160

1 x 20 GG                            240

2 x 5 Reavers                     320

1 x 10 Executioners       180

2x reaperbolt thrower 240

2020

This list removed the nomad prince and GG for the room to put 2 boltthrowers and a lore master, more reavers since they are cheaper than 20 GG and fill my need for some movement. 

The original idea was going lots of wanderer models and try to maximize on synergy with the hurricanum. The executioners really get a power boost with the hurricanum but to be honest for the waywatchers (hero and unit) it's not that impressive so I'm thinking I might need to let that go. I've also deleted the nomad prince since it had less and less wanderers to benefit from his command ability anyway (The waywatcher also targets wanderers but are already in the list for their shooting and synergy with the hurricanum).

Now the new list has the shooting I like to see (the first is a bit light on it for my taste).. sadly it's 20 points overweight and severely lack melee.

So my questions

1. Are there better alternatives for a general in order which can do more with the command ability (and are worth loosing a waywatcher in shooting over).

2. While the loremaster buff on a boltthrower is nice (giving about 9.5 wounds (instead of 5.3 before saving at -1) AND giving a dispell I could get another waywatcher which is appealing too.. or (ALMOST) just another boltthrower .

3. Are there better cheap (need to save points)  battleline options preferably ones that don't shine at 20+ models. The reavers in the list will probably end up being used as speedbumps since I've got nothing else to use in that role... and it's not really what they are made to do (to expensive). Dryads are nice but in 10's I don't think they are optimal. EG would have been nice but are not battleline.

4. If I where to put a monster in there would you go phoenix, forest dragon, sisters of twilight or treelord (ancient)?

And of course a more open question: which list would you take and what would you change in general?

Skinks are the cheapest battleline for order at 60pts for 10. 

Nomad prince is pretty awesome. But don’t forget that his buff only affects Wanderers; that excludes the units of waywatchers and bolt throwers. 

I like the forest dragon. But your list would prob benefit more from a frost Phoenix. It’s a pretty standard addition. 

You are relying too heavily on shooting. Many armies have shooting phase protection, like -x to hit which conflicts with the waywatcher ability. 

the list I’m toying with atm is similar to yours, except Its a wanderer only and includes a 30 man strong unit of Wildwood Rangers. You could prob do ok with 20 executioners. 

[Yeled]

On 2/9/2018 at 9:34 AM, BillyOcean said:

Hello Wander fans,

I am just getting back into AoS after a long hiatus - I'm afraid I was one of the early rage-quitters after the transition from WHFB 8th Ed. But it seems like the game has progressed a lot since then and is in a really good place now! So now I'm looking to start a new army and the Wanderers seem right up my ally - I've always been into armies that play cagily and require skill to play. I'm just hoping you all can help me with a couple of questions before I commit:

 

1. Can Wanderers play competitively, without playing prescriptively?

I want to be able to take my army to tournaments, and I want to compete. I don't need to be cutting edge competitive, nor do I give a hoot about winning tournaments. I just don't want to feel like I've lost before even deploying, and I want to given my opponents challenging and interesting games. Furthermore.... I don't want to play with an army that relies on a specific, highly prescriptive gambit to do well.  For instance, I've seen Wanderers do well at a couple of tournies recently, but looking at the lists it seems like they are predicated on deep-striking (or whatever its called in AoS) with the Battalion, and blowing as much off the table as possible with Arcane Bodkins in turn 1. I wouldn't want to play that way because I don't enjoy games that swing on the success of a turn 1 gambit. I want to be making different decisions each game, not have some set play that I always rely on. So, after all the pre-amble my question really is: In your experience, can a solid, balanced, well-designed Wanderers list do well without relying on some prescriptive turn 1 alpha play?

 

2. Any predictions about Wanderers longevity?

I like to take my time painting my army to a high standard, and learning all its ins-and-outs on the table. So I'd be pretty heartbroken if I committed to the army and it was relegated to compendiums in GHB18. What do we think the likelihood of that is? On the one hand, some of the models have been repacked for AoS which suggests they are in it for the long haul. However, I do worry that some of our interesting characters like Waywatchers might be relegated given they don't have up-to-date models. Losing any options from the already small selection would impact the army pretty hard. So, does anyone want to make any bold predictions about what you see as the future of the Wanderers?

 

Thanks in advance for any responses. I also have some finer-grained questions about rules and some list ideas, but I'll leave those for later to avoid bloating this post. 

 

I think this deserves a response and unfortunately I'm very unqualified to answer either question. I too have seen that Wanderers have snuck into top 20 spots at recent tournaments, but I don't know how they've done it. I think Wanderers are competitive in general since GH17, but that's against casual players. I don't know how they can do against top tier armies at tournaments without using gimmicks. But frankly their allegiance ability works great in casual games, and I find there is a tremendous variety of ways I can use it to my advantage.

On the second point, no they won't get "compendiumed." The models they were going to lose have been lost. They were put in the Compendium from the get go, and then the compendium units lost the Wanderer keywords (just like all Compendium units were removed from their factions). But the current units are pretty much here to stay. No faction has been lost since the AoS launch, and I don't recall any faction units being lost either. For a while I would have guessed the Wanderers might have permanently been relegated to what they are currently and basically ignored, but the recent DoK reveal has changed my thinking entirely. I don't think Wanderers will get a Battletome or an update any time soon, but I do think there is hope they may get one eventually. And that hope is a lot more than I used to have even a month and a half ago.

[Aelfric]

11 minutes ago, Yeled said:

I think this deserves a response and unfortunately I'm very unqualified to answer either question. I too have seen that Wanderers have snuck into top 20 spots at recent tournaments, but I don't know how they've done it. I think Wanderers are competitive in general since GH17, but that's against casual players. I don't know how they can do against top tier armies at tournaments without using gimmicks. But frankly their allegiance ability works great in casual games, and I find there is a tremendous variety of ways I can use it to my advantage.

On the second point, no they won't get "compendiumed." The models they were going to lose have been lost. They were put in the Compendium from the get go, and then the compendium units lost the Wanderer keywords (just like all Compendium units were removed from their factions). But the current units are pretty much here to stay. No faction has been lost since the AoS launch, and I don't recall any faction units being lost either. For a while I would have guessed the Wanderers might have permanently been relegated to what they are currently and basically ignored, but the recent DoK reveal has changed my thinking entirely. I don't think Wanderers will get a Battletome or an update any time soon, but I do think there is hope they may get one eventually. And that hope is a lot more than I used to have even a month and a half ago.

One of the new Heroes for "Warhammer Quest - The End Times" is a Wardancer and I think there was some short story recently involving a Wanderer Hero, so they're not being entirely forgotten.  I'm also keeping my glass half-full for a battletome eventually.  It would be nice to see a Wanderers warband for Shadespire - I don't play it, but a warscroll would surely follow.

[BillyOcean]

3 hours ago, Aelfric said:

It is confusing, because the trait says "travel along a hidden pathway instead of making a move" at the beginning and "This is the unit's move for that movement phase".  These statements cannot both be right.  Either they have made a move as defined by the core rules or they have made a set-up.  It can't be both because the definition of a set-up in the new FAQ makes it clear that a set-up is not a move but a different method of changing a unit's location.  

Agree, this is very confusing. "Instead of making a move" and "this is the unit's move" are in direct contradiction. Still, once the whole process has been completed, my interpretation is that the unit counts has having made a move, because it has done something that "is the unit's move". 

3 hours ago, Aelfric said:

If I were to set up 30 Glade Guard this way within 10" of a Gryph-hound could I argue that my opponent couldn't fire at me because it was a move and not a set-up?  I think I would have one very disgruntled opponent.

I think in this case, its both. Its a setup that has also been defined as a move. So Gryph-hound works, Fortress of Boughs etc do not. I would not argue that this is how GW intended, but thats how it reads. 

3 hours ago, Aelfric said:

It is clear in every other army that has a set-up ability that this is an alternative to a standard move and the FAQ re-iterates this.  Why would the Wanderers trait not follow the same ruling?

They probably should follow the same ruling, and hopefully it will be clarified that way. But currently it doesn't read that way. 

3 hours ago, Aelfric said:

It seems that I am fortunate, though, because I have discussed this with the owner of my local store and he has come to the same conclusion and the few games I do play are likely to be there. 

Sure... until we get a clear ruling its basically going to be up to each group or each T.O. to define it how they wish. If your opponents are happy to play it that way then why not!

 

[BillyOcean]

2 hours ago, Yeled said:

I think this deserves a response and unfortunately I'm very unqualified to answer either question. I too have seen that Wanderers have snuck into top 20 spots at recent tournaments, but I don't know how they've done it. I think Wanderers are competitive in general since GH17, but that's against casual players. I don't know how they can do against top tier armies at tournaments without using gimmicks. But frankly their allegiance ability works great in casual games, and I find there is a tremendous variety of ways I can use it to my advantage.

Thank for the feedback! I also think theres definitely enough to work with to build some solid competitive lists that don't rely on the Battalion bomb. In addition to the Allegiance ability, we have some truly great deals to capitalize on: units of 30 Eternal Guard are incredibly durable objective holders for 7pt/model , and I'm surprised not see two units of 30 in most lists. Waywatchers are the other standout, and allies will also help plug some holes - the Frost Phoenix for Duality of Death being the key example. 

2 hours ago, Yeled said:

On the second point, no they won't get "compendiumed." The models they were going to lose have been lost. They were put in the Compendium from the get go, and then the compendium units lost the Wanderer keywords (just like all Compendium units were removed from their factions). But the current units are pretty much here to stay. No faction has been lost since the AoS launch, and I don't recall any faction units being lost either. For a while I would have guessed the Wanderers might have permanently been relegated to what they are currently and basically ignored, but the recent DoK reveal has changed my thinking entirely. I don't think Wanderers will get a Battletome or an update any time soon, but I do think there is hope they may get one eventually. And that hope is a lot more than I used to have even a month and a half ago.

Thats good to hear. As long as the range is not going to shrink, I think we have enough to work with for now, even if a Battletome may be along way off.

[Origin]

@Aezeal If you're going to run multiple bolt throwers then you have to drop a Sea Warden on Foot in the list for the +1 to wound. Pretty epic. 

[Aezeal]

7 hours ago, Aelfric said:

One of the new Heroes for "Warhammer Quest - The End Times" is a Wardancer and I think there was some short story recently involving a Wanderer Hero, so they're not being entirely forgotten.  I'm also keeping my glass half-full for a battletome eventually.  It would be nice to see a Wanderers warband for Shadespire - I don't play it, but a warscroll would surely follow.

The fact they got stuff in the ghb means nothing is coming for them any time soon. And end times is pre removing wardancers.

[Aezeal]

7 hours ago, Graftonianman said:

Skinks are the cheapest battleline for order at 60pts for 10. 

Nomad prince is pretty awesome. But don’t forget that his buff only affects Wanderers; that excludes the units of waywatchers and bolt throwers. 

I like the forest dragon. But your list would prob benefit more from a frost Phoenix. It’s a pretty standard addition. 

You are relying too heavily on shooting. Many armies have shooting phase protection, like -x to hit which conflicts with the waywatcher ability. 

the list I’m toying with atm is similar to yours, except Its a wanderer only and includes a 30 man strong unit of Wildwood Rangers. You could prob do ok with 20 executioners. 

-Yeah skinks are cheap good suggestion. I'm not going to use them since I don't have them and don't like their aesthetic in this army but I hadn't told you that. Maybe I'm going to have to settle for EG, not that expensive and at full strength at 10 models.

-Yeah he's nice but it's a real balancing act between characters and their efficiency. Waywatchers are the baseline for their ranged damage output and the rest has the show potential to be worth more.

- Phoenix: noted. Don't have the model but I want it and I can proxy my Carmine dragon for it.

- I know I'm too heavily in shooting. .. But it's what I like... And When I remove stuff it seems only a few shots are left over... It's hard for an addict to make cuts... help me. (PS I've not seen that much shooting protection yet.) Which of my shooters is least cost effective?

- staying wanderers means no hurricanum which is sort of different since most of my list started based on its  synergies.

5 hours ago, Origin said:

@Aezeal If you're going to run multiple bolt throwers then you have to drop a Sea Warden on Foot in the list for the +1 to wound. Pretty epic. 

- good suggestion. It's a balancing act though. I only have 2 boltthrower and getting a buffer for only 2 doesn't seem very point effective. I think the Loremaster will give more bang for buck.. and not even sure he's better than just getting another waywatcher.

 

[Aelfric]

53 minutes ago, Aezeal said:

The fact they got stuff in the ghb means nothing is coming for them any time soon. And end times is pre removing wardancers.

It's true that Wardancers are now  compendium.  However, the next Warhammer quest 3 ( a long way off I know ) will by default be set in the AOS world.  It is fair to say that subsequent editions of games do not tend to get rid of playable character classes, but simply add new ones.  I know I am being optimistic, but this does suggest that if they want to have continuity between the two variants of the game and cater for people who cross over to AOS, then ( you would think )they would consider quite carefully about including any character classes that they knew were not going to exist in the future.  Bit of a long shot, I know, but I'm prepared to wait.   Death factions that got rules in the GHB have just had a new book, so never say never.  

[Graftonianman]

@Aezeal, the waywatcher units are the best shooters, point for wound output. As much as you love them, the reavers are weak. They don’t pull off the role they played in earlier editions. They’re best for grabbing objectives. (And speed bumps aren’t reliable because of the random turn thing.)

Shooting protection: for instance, Nurglings have up to -2 to hit on shooting, Tzeentch has a shooting protection spell, and these are who I play a lot. 

A fast moving combat-oriented army would give you problems. Especially if there’s no VIP target for you to sniper. 

[Graftonianman]

So, my recommendation is more executioners with mystic shield. (And I’m not implying you should pull the reavers.)

[Filius]

On 7.9.2017 at 4:09 AM, WABBIT said:

Does anyone actually like the name "Wanderers"?

Yes! Very much, for two – in my humble opinion – very good reasons.

1. The by now famous words  "Not all those who wander are lost." from the Poem "All that is Gold does not glitter", which refers to a group of people called "Rangers", hehe.

2. It takes away the monothematic Narrative of the Army as "Wood Elves" and opens the faction to the Ultra-high Fantasy World of Age of Sigmar. They can be, whatever you can imagine them to be in the Vastness, that are the Eight Realms (and fits at least somehow to the minis and the crunch). I love it, because it allows me to merge sooo many things I liked for a long time into one Army, into one Story and still stay within the Frame set up by the Word "Wanderers": As long as you wander around the Mortal Realms, you have all rights to call you a "Wanderer". But more on that, when I'm done reading the rest of this thread.

For now: Thank you so much everybody! This is highly encouraging.  Thank you! From my heart of hearts, to quote another big Wanderer …

P.S.: Sorry for comming back to such an old question! I'm currently reading the whole thread and simply couldn't help but add my humble opinion here.

[Frozenbeast]

wow! I did not expect this to e so hard, I spent the last 30 minutes writing the email and trying to be as clear an understandable as I could.....idk if I succeeded or not!!XD Anyway email sent, hopefully the fact all of us is asking the same question will make them ruling a definitive answer.

[Aezeal]

7 hours ago, Graftonianman said:

So, my recommendation is more executioners with mystic shield. (And I’m not implying you should pull the reavers.)

But.... what would you remove to accomodate that.

And would you make one big unit or 2 smaller ones? 

The only time I met executioners I shot 20 of them of the table because they seemed annoying and warranted the attention of my Kurnoth hunters  

8 hours ago, Graftonianman said:

@Aezeal, the waywatcher units are the best shooters, point for wound output. As much as you love them, the reavers are weak. They don’t pull off the role they played in earlier editions. They’re best for grabbing objectives. (And speed bumps aren’t reliable because of the random turn thing.)

Shooting protection: for instance, Nurglings have up to -2 to hit on shooting, Tzeentch has a shooting protection spell, and these are who I play a lot. 

A fast moving combat-oriented army would give you problems. Especially if there’s no VIP target for you to sniper. 

Waywatchers are also somewhat  vulnerable due to lots of points per wound (like the executioners). I'm not quite sure they are better point for wound output than a boltthrower though, let alone considering range and rend but those of course are even more vulnerable, a teleporting army would have a blast killing them ASAP.

I don't love the reavers btw..

1.  I don't have the models even (gonna proxy glade riders) and I think cavalry is overcosted in general though stealing a few points first turn can be game winning especially for a defensive army. 

2. I've never even played a game with them (and only 1 against them). I only put them in there since they are battleline and fast movers:  2 things I needed.  If you have a viable alternative I'd take it in a heartbeat (if aelven for sure... other races I'd seriously consider too though .. but I admit I won't be using skinks).

12 hours ago, Aezeal said:

-Yeah skinks are cheap good suggestion. I'm not going to use them since I don't have them and don't like their aesthetic in this army but I hadn't told you that. Maybe I'm going to have to settle for EG, not that expensive and at full strength at 10 models.

Wait.. the whole reason I've not used EG as battleline in the first place is because they aren't mixed order battleline... if they where I'd take 2 units of them in less than a heartbeat and be content  (there wouldn't be any settling as I said.. it'd be a party).

[Aezeal]

21 hours ago, Graftonianman said:

1. where we left of a few months ago:

Hurricanum + mage      380

Nomad Prince                  80

4x waywatcher (lord)   400

2 x 20 GG                            480

1 x 5 reavers                      160

2 x 5 waywatchers         160

1 x 10 Executioners       180

2 x 5 wardancers              160

2000

or

2. this newer list:

Hurricanum + mage     380

Loremaster                         100

4x waywatcher (lord)    400

2 x 5 waywatchers         160

1 x 20 GG                            240

2 x 5 Reavers                     320

1 x 10 Executioners       180

2x reaperbolt thrower 240

Taking a lot of the replies into account it seems that the first list will be a better  point to continue my quest for this list. I needed to cut shooting so the boltthrowers are gone, I reavers aren't considered that good.. so that 2nd unit of them is out too. 

So I'll continue with these for sure

Hurricanum + mage      380

4x waywatcher (lord)   400

2 x 20 GG                            480

2 x 5 waywatchers         160

1 x 10 Executioners       180

So I think that means that there remain 3 parts to play with.

1. - a unit of reavers: I think I'll keep them since they are fast and battleline. Going 10 GG would be cheaper but they hardly seem optimal too and 20 is always an option but means even more points in battleline

2. The nomad prince. With 4 waywatchers and 2 units of 20 GG his buff will not be wasted and he's he's not that expensive anyway. He's in untill I find something better (will be discussed under 3

3. - 2x 5 wardancers...... not sure about them yet. I could  ALMOST get another 10 executioners here which when comparing them 1-1 seems QUITE A BIT better (especially considering hurricanum).. which means these are QUITE A BIT worse.. which is a realisation which doesn't make me happy..

Options I'm seeing:

1. Sadly I cannot make a 1-1 trade between the 10 wardancers and10  exectioners.. but I could change 5 reavers and 10 wardancers for 10 executioners and 10 GG. The army now has a decent close combat kick but lacks speed.

2. Delete nomad prince or a waywatcher and the 10 wardancers for an annointed on Phoenix. The army looses some in shooting but gains something speedy, still had combat (probably a bit better than the 10 wardancers) and another awesome model. (if someone likes this best.. which hero would you delete.

Or

3.I just keep that list as it was.. which has some  speed in the reavers and wardancers and some additional melee with the wardancers (and this is more woodaelvy which is always good.

 

Votes please.

 

[Graftonianman]

@Aezeal

Looks like you posted before I got this out. I won’t rewrite anything, I’ll just add a tidbit at the end...

battleline is a tough choice in mixed order. Liberators? Anyway, I like the reavers choice. 

Waywatcher units are only 80 points. Sure, bolt throwers output a lot, but at 50% more points. 

Id take 1 big unit of something that has a good save and combat damage. Executioners, Phoenix guard, swordmasters, wardancers, etc. If they get shot off  early, great. That’s shots that don’t hit the waywatchers. And I’d drop either the bolt throwers or the waywatcher units. 

 

Taking Both executioners and and wardancers has merit. Waywatchers are cool, but sometimes don’t pull their weight because of their changing ability. Take the reavers, they’re cool. 20 Gg is expensive but more than 2x as good as 10. Nomad prince is cool, good in combat, too. 

[Graftonianman]

This is my ideal list atm. Haven’t played with it yet (lack the figs), only something similar. 

Nomad prince, spellweaver, 4xWaywatcher

2x30WildwoodRangers,  3x10EG, sisters of the thorn, 

One of the rangers get both magic buffs, the other is there as backup for when the first dies. Eternal Guard park on objectives. The list I played before had one ranger unit and it fell apart as soon as the rangers died. That combat block is very important.