Lets Chat Wanderers / Wood Elves compendium

[The Wanderer]

1 hour ago, Kugane said:

This explains how I feel... I rejoined Warhammer (now age of sigmar) after a break about a year ago and decided to start collecting new armies, kind of searching which playstyle I like the most. I am back to being a student, so I have been on a budget the past year, trying to keep my purchases below 120$/month. All in all, I purchased enough models to be able to field 4 seperate 2000 point armies under the old GHB rules.

I have been busy painting and converting all my purchases this year and was NEARLY ready to start fielding my own units rather than borrowing them from friends, only to find out that yet again I cannot build a single competitive list due to all these gaping holes of support. I now have 1400$ worth of miniatures on display that are incompatible with eachother. I don't mind starting yet another army, but given the fact it'll probably take me at least 4 months (realistically about a year) to finish it, I feel anxious to purchase anything now. I guess it is back to Skirmish games haha.

AoS seems to be making a move towards factions having a much smaller variety of units than Fantasy saw. If/when Wanders get a proper release I expect a Glade Guard/New Unit double box (or possible GG/Sisters) and a few plastic Leader models.

As for compendium stuff getting pulled this was obviously coming when the first General's Handbook came out. Since then I've avoided anything listed under Wood Elves instead of Wanderers - most of it (maybe all, I'm not sure) didn't have models available and splitting it off from the new Wanderers factions was obviously a first step to removing that stuff.

[Tidings]

@Kugane You might want to sell off a lot of that stuff man. I'm busy enough with three armies (Sylvaneth, Wanderers a Death) and I mostly just play Wanderers. Will probably sell off half of my Death collection to fund whatever Aelf stuff is released in the future. 

[WABBIT]

@The WandererSeraphon and Storm cast would make that suggestion a non starter. They have tons of units to choose from and SCE are the flagship army. I accept they need to change stuff but there is no need to leave a gaping hole and not tell us if they will even be replaced. 

[The Wanderer]

@WABBIT Two exceptions that defy what looks like a clear trend. I don't expect GW to be happy until at least 1/3 of the entire AoS range is Stormcast of some description. They didn't really leave a gaping hole, we have more options than several new armies like Fyreslayers and Ironjawz for example.  The compendium stuff was all left out of the Wanderer listing in the first General's Handbook, between that and the lack of available models it was clearly getting dropped. If they'd included it under Wanderers in the first GH I would agree with you but I figured that was a pretty clear warning sign it was going.

[WABBIT]

I'm not debating the fact they were going, its what they are being replaced with. Do we wait around for potentially years until something turns up? As a wood elf player since 1985 I have experience of that before sadly. I've stopped playing for several years before now because the army I wanted to collect had no up to date rules to allow it to compete. I've spent a long time away from the hobby mainly because I'm A wood elf fan and it's never been a major army for GW so they lost me as a customer for a long time. 

I disagree about the gap. We lost loads of good models and more importantly models that filled vital roles albeit worse than other army equivalents - The Dragon glade Lord for one was our only monster after the tree spirits ran off with our queen  Orion wasn't tough enough for the monster keyword. Warhawks and Eagle riders gave us some fast high wound models but again no punch or armour. And there are more than 2 armies with loads of choice I just selected 2 at random.

[The Wanderer]

Tomb Kings player of 14 years dude so I know where you're coming from, just glad I chose Wood Elves as my second army rather than Bretonnians .

I do think GW really should have been transparent and road-mapped what they were doing when they made the switch to AoS, they asked a lot of fans to take a big leap in the dark without any clear indication where things were going. The fact we have no idea about Aelves 2 years on is staggering. I personally moved away from non-Wanderer units as soon as the first GH came out, this just seemed a clear next step. When/will we get a Battletome and new units? Who knows, in many ways GH17 was a big step forward so I'm staying optimistic.

[WABBIT]

17 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

Tomb Kings player of 14 years dude so I know where you're coming from, just glad I chose Wood Elves as my second army rather than Bretonnians .

I do think GW really should have been transparent and road-mapped what they were doing when they made the switch to AoS, they asked a lot of fans to take a big leap in the dark without any clear indication where things were going. The fact we have no idea about Aelves 2 years on is staggering. I personally moved away from non-Wanderer units as soon as the first GH came out, this just seemed a clear next step. When/will we get a Battletome and new units? Who knows, in many ways GH17 was a big step forward so I'm staying optimistic.

Geez You know how to pick em. all 3 of those armies languish lowest on GW radar haha   You must feel my pain 3 fold.

[Origin]

I don't see the variety within aos getting smaller at all. With the over arcing alligences you can build whatever you want. The more specific subsections add great flavour but there is no reason we can field HE archers in our lists. Or anything for that matter. And 'dogs breakfasts' lists seem to do quite well. 

That being said I plan to make full use of my 400 points worth of allies. I really feel the lack of combat punch. I love the shoot, jump, shoot but only having WWR as our only 'decent' combat unit is a bit lack lustre. 

I plan on converting some counts as storm cast for my green elves, concussors/tempestors, prosecutors, maybe a knight-azyros. Just to fill the gaps. Use celestine and her gemini for the prosecutors and azyros, just add wings... And maybe make the heavy cav out of lions from the white lion chariot. Having some chunky cav would be sweet. 

GW have improved so much of late but really they can't make a move without upsetting some one. The game is moving in a great direction and despite the fact that my tomb kings and my Brets are all boxed up I'm happy. The game is way more fun that 7th and 8th ever were. 

[WABBIT]

Wild riders should be our punch but instead they hit like a dry sock (wet socks are heavy and hurt more). 

[Tidings]

@Origin I totally agree, GW has gotten WAY better lately. Still, I feel like the keyword gripes are valid. The unit variety within many armies is smaller or feels more restricted, but that's sort of a trick, because like you said we can now use stuff outside our immediate army. I've also considered picking up some stormcast to have a more solid frontline. And even though Hurricanums went up, I still feel a more balanced list (Mixed Order gunline style)including one  will be more competitive and less of a one-trick-pony than the Wanderer teleport playstyle. I like that we have two very different options in playstyles now depending on if we want to use our awesome allegiance abilities, or if we want to go Mixed Order and have a really well rounded roster. 

[WABBIT]

19 minutes ago, Tidings said:

@Origin I totally agree, GW has gotten WAY better lately. Still, I feel like the keyword gripes are valid. The unit variety within many armies is smaller or feels more restricted, but that's sort of a trick, because like you said we can now use stuff outside our immediate army. I've also considered picking up some stormcast to have a more solid frontline. And even though Hurricanums went up, I still feel a more balanced list (Mixed Order gunline style)including one  will be more competitive and less of a one-trick-pony than the Wanderer teleport playstyle. I like that we have two very different options in playstyles now depending on if we want to use our awesome allegiance abilities, or if we want to go Mixed Order and have a really well rounded roster. 

You know I do the same thing, I start building a wanderers army with order keyword so I can  fill the gaps we have with units from other armies, then I supplement or replace my poor units with better units from other armies and you know what I end up with?

A sylvaneth army with a lore master. 

Everytime.

its bloody annoying ?

[Yeled]

As a Wanderer player who just joined TGA I've really been enjoying this very interesting conversation. Even though I don't play tournaments I definitely feel a lot of the pain described over the past few pages. I've tried to play a fairly pure Wanderer army (though I do mix in Sylvaneth, Swifthawks, or Order Draconis), even before we had faction abilities, so the update in GH2017 is greatly appreciated and intriguing.  It has been frustrating, at times, to have to play the "gunline" style of game play when I've felt, like many here, that the Wanderers should be a hit and run skirmish type army. I wouldn't mind our lack of punch if we had the ability to get out of the way, maneuver around other armies, and hit from another direction. Speed, maneuverability, and the ability to avoid taking direct hits would be really nice. That's not necessarily been the way it's gone so far, especially with three of our core units being better when we stand still. We'll see how things play out with Melt Away and the ability to jump off the table so long as a model is near the edge.

Regarding holes in the lists and lack of support, unfortunately I think the carry-over factions from WFB are doomed to be treated as tier 2 factions for AoS.  AoS seems to be evolving factions into a version of themselves on steriods and giving them new identities: Greenskinz -> Ironjawz; Free Peoples -> Stormcast; Wood Elves -> Sylvaneth;  Dispossessed -> KO; Slaves to Darkness of each god -> Bloodbound, Arcanites, Rotbringers, etc. I suspect  we'll see some new version of aelves rather than a massive update of old aelf factions, and while Wanderers, Swifthawks, Darkling Covens and others will see continued support in terms of maintenance of rules, I doubt we're going to see a bunch of new Wanderer models anytime soon. I like AoS a lot, but GW seems much more interested in the new factions than the old, and as someone who jumped in and consciously chose an older faction to play (Wanderers) rather than carried them over from WFB, I do feel a little frustrated with my decision.

That said, I do really, really like the Wanderers and other aelves and ultimately I don't regret my decision (despite feeling a little frustrated). I may jump into any new aelves they finally put out, just to be part of the new, but I won't stop playing Wanderers as well. With that in mind, I wonder if it would make sense for the TGA to start making a Wanderers wish list of sorts. In other words, I wonder if we could find consensus in some of the things we'd like to see as Wanderer players, in the hopes of compiling a list of ideas for GW to consider if and when we get a Battletome or rules update.  Things like having Eternal Guard and SotW trigger their buffs in some other way than standing still. Or allowing Glade Guard to get a 3+ to hit by being in cover or by being within a certain range of a hero or another Glade Guard unit rather than by being a large unit. A monster to replace the forest dragon or a mounted hero...that sort of thing. If there were relatively universal support for certain ideas maybe there is an infinitesimally small chance they might listen and incorporate some of those ideas.

Would there be consensus? If there were, I could see myself starting and maintaining a thread with a list in the first post.

[WABBIT]

My most recent projects, most of which are now not wanderers. You can understand why I'm peeved. All that work...grrr. I had many more in the pipeline too. Primed my stag rider lord and other units ready to go for GHB2017 and they are gone  some sylvaneth crept in I couldn't resist. Work in progress.

[Yeled]

4 minutes ago, WABBIT said:

My most recent projects, most of which are now not wanderers. You can understand why I'm peeved. All that work...grrr.

 

Yeah, definitely. I didn't use a ton of the compendium units but I had just put together a Glade Guard on Great Stag by using wyld rider legs, sisters of the thorn torso, witch aelves head, and a Space Wolves thunderwolf as the stag. It's not a great unit but I'm sad because I loved the model. 

I'm still going to finish her for armies on parade and try to convince my group to allow it as a wanderer by using the old warscroll.

[WABBIT]

33 minutes ago, Yeled said:

Yeah, definitely. I didn't use a ton of the compendium units but I had just put together a Glade Guard on Great Stag by using wyld rider legs, sisters of the thorn torso, witch aelves head, and a Space Wolves thunderwolf as the stag. It's not a great unit but I'm sad because I loved the model. 

I'm still going to finish her for armies on parade and try to convince my group to allow it as a wanderer by using the old warscroll.

I've added the pictures now  they weren't working when u posted your reply

yeah I will try the same and just aks if I can use them as wanderers still. I'd love to see a pic of your converted wild riders, they sound great.

[Yeled]

16 minutes ago, WABBIT said:

I've added the pictures now  they weren't working when u posted your reply

yeah I will try the same and just aks if I can use them as wanderers still.

Seeing the pictures of your amazing models, and all the funds and especially the hard work and care that obviously went into them, I feel my previous reply probably didn't adequately do justice to your sense of loss. I feel bad because I have a couple models that I can't use as Wanderers. It's nothing compared to what you put together.

That dragon is gorgeous.

As for pics of my Glade Lord on Great Stag, which is actually a wolf (GLOGSWIAAW?), she's still unpainted so I want to get her finished...then I'll definitely post pics. 

[WABBIT]

1 hour ago, Yeled said:

As a Wanderer player who just joined TGA I've really been enjoying this very interesting conversation. Even though I don't play tournaments I definitely feel a lot of the pain described over the past few pages. I've tried to play a fairly pure Wanderer army (though I do mix in Sylvaneth, Swifthawks, or Order Draconis), even before we had faction abilities, so the update in GH2017 is greatly appreciated and intriguing.  It has been frustrating, at times, to have to play the "gunline" style of game play when I've felt, like many here, that the Wanderers should be a hit and run skirmish type army. I wouldn't mind our lack of punch if we had the ability to get out of the way, maneuver around other armies, and hit from another direction. Speed, maneuverability, and the ability to avoid taking direct hits would be really nice. That's not necessarily been the way it's gone so far, especially with three of our core units being better when we stand still. We'll see how things play out with Melt Away and the ability to jump off the table so long as a model is near the edge.

Regarding holes in the lists and lack of support, unfortunately I think the carry-over factions from WFB are doomed to be treated as tier 2 factions for AoS.  AoS seems to be evolving factions into a version of themselves on steriods and giving them new identities: Greenskinz -> Ironjawz; Free Peoples -> Stormcast; Wood Elves -> Sylvaneth;  Dispossessed -> KO; Slaves to Darkness of each god -> Bloodbound, Arcanites, Rotbringers, etc. I suspect  we'll see some new version of aelves rather than a massive update of old aelf factions, and while Wanderers, Swifthawks, Darkling Covens and others will see continued support in terms of maintenance of rules, I doubt we're going to see a bunch of new Wanderer models anytime soon. I like AoS a lot, but GW seems much more interested in the new factions than the old, and as someone who jumped in and consciously chose an older faction to play (Wanderers) rather than carried them over from WFB, I do feel a little frustrated with my decision.

That said, I do really, really like the Wanderers and other aelves and ultimately I don't regret my decision (despite feeling a little frustrated). I may jump into any new aelves they finally put out, just to be part of the new, but I won't stop playing Wanderers as well. With that in mind, I wonder if it would make sense for the TGA to start making a Wanderers wish list of sorts. In other words, I wonder if we could find consensus in some of the things we'd like to see as Wanderer players, in the hopes of compiling a list of ideas for GW to consider if and when we get a Battletome or rules update.  Things like having Eternal Guard and SotW trigger their buffs in some other way than standing still. Or allowing Glade Guard to get a 3+ to hit by being in cover or by being within a certain range of a hero or another Glade Guard unit rather than by being a large unit. A monster to replace the forest dragon or a mounted hero...that sort of thing. If there were relatively universal support for certain ideas maybe there is an infinitesimally small chance they might listen and incorporate some of those ideas.

Would there be consensus? If there were, I could see myself starting and maintaining a thread with a list in the first post.

Yeah I started a wish list further back in this thread. Adding to it I'd suggest some sort of synergy with forests and maybe wyld woods or a save vs the mortal wounds from deadly forest terrain. And melt away for wild riders could include charging not just shooting. A separate thread may be better so we can keep it unclogged. Just update the first post with suggestions. Nice idea. GW have recommended this form on their community site and TV twitch so they do read this and they are in a listening and responsive mood these days. It may take a year to go from concept to testing to release print though

[WABBIT]

6 minutes ago, Yeled said:

Seeing the pictures of your amazing models, and all the funds and especially the hard work and care that obviously went into them, I feel my previous reply probably didn't adequately do justice to your sense of loss. I feel bad because I have a couple models that I can't use as Wanderers. It's nothing compared to what you put together.

That dragon is gorgeous.

Hey thanks mate. I'm a dry brusher so the painting isn't perfect. It's battle ready and fast to do. I have hundreds of models so I can't afford to spend too much time on each unit. I took a bit more time on the dragon conversion. We may have lost out a bit in GHB 2017 but we got alliegence abilities that are in theme, items and hint at future aelf releases. Hope my army inspires more to post and keep wanderers in GW focus as a top tier army not a fluff one. 

[awcamawn]

Awesome conversions @WABBIT! Those Wardancers are great, and I love the dragon rider's weapon, it's realistically proportioned to be actually able to reach an enemy clanrat from atop that massive dragon. Very cool work overall, lots of great looking older models in there. The banner design for your Eternal Guard is particularly eye catching and really well done. Thanks for sharing; there's been alot of great painting motivation in this thread along with all the good strategy tips!

[Yeled]

37 minutes ago, WABBIT said:

Yeah I started a wish list further back in this thread. Adding to it would be some sort of synergy with forests and maybe wyld woods or a save vs the mortal wounds from deadly direct terrain. And melt away for wild riders includes charging not just shooting. A separate thread may be better so we can keep it unclogged. Just update the first post with suggestions. Nice idea. GW have recommended this form on their community site and TV twitch so they do read this and they are in a listening and responsive mood these days. It may take a year to go from concept to testing to release print though

Ok, maybe I'll put something up. I'll have to think of how we should do it. Maybe post the idea and ask for suggestions for the list in the posts below. I don't want it to be a giant list of random ideas...I think if I could summarize ideas thrown out by the community into themes with explanations of how people might want to see them implemented, we'd make more of an impact. But I'm not sure if I should be discerning (thereby acting as editor), ask for people to vote by reacting and discussing and post the idea once it's reached a certain threshold or consensus, or just list everything.

Whatever I put up, the goal will be to discuss ways in which we'd like to see the Wanderers evolve via rules modifications, new models, or other. I don't want it to be a general Wanderers discussion. That's what this thread is for.

[WABBIT]

Thanks @awcamawn but I can't take credit for the eternal guard banner. It's a decal from a dark elves box I didn't paint it on.  (sshhh don't tell anyone!) 

i do like a whinge To get things off my chest but I want to be positive about the future of aelves in AoS too. I know GW love what they do and they are doing a fab job especially with the community side,of things now. If we don't talk about wanderers we will lose wanderers so anything to inspire more posts and pictures about them is a good thing. I talk too much too hence my name

[Yeled]

Here are a few Wanderers I've been working on lately. I really wanted to go for a deep forest fey sort of feel.

 

Work in progress...just finished my Wyld Rider concept this morning (I always do one first to decide what I'm doing before I do the others). Still needs to be based, but that's easy.

[Thegiantpeanut]

15 hours ago, Tidings said:

The main problem I have with Sisters of the Watch is they are only slightly better than Glade Guard while they are standing still. 

I think this is still debatable and depends on what you want to do with them.  With no buffs,each model firing their base warscroll, GG put out 2.75 dam for 120pts, Sisters 4.8 for 220pts.  That 44 pt per damage for GG and 46 for sisters, not too bad.  Being able to shoot twice doubles this to 9.6 dam for 10 sisters (23 pts per dam).  A unit of 20 GG with their +1 to hit only manage 7 dam, granted they can still move (34 pts per dam).  So I guess that it depends on what you want to do, stood still I would back sisters, moving I would maybe take glade guard.  

All this aside, my main attraction to the sisters was really the fact that I love the models and dont want a million models to paint 

[WABBIT]

Also movement = range in this game. If you can't hit anything they are pointless. Get it, pointless!  Haha oh never mind.

[WABBIT]

@Yeled nice work on the wanderers I like your colour scheme. The leaf fall bases look very effective too.