Lets Chat Wanderers / Wood Elves compendium

[Aezeal]

6 hours ago, Tidings said:

Yeah now that Spellsingers are 80 points they are way more worth taking. Also now that Teclis is gone. He was beast.

Yeah I would rather be going around the board edges but it does seem pretty easy to counter. Losing Nomad Prince hurts a LOT in this build because of how expensive Waystone Pathfinders is. 

Isn't there another mage in our allies group which is possibly more usefull... a different spell is always nice.

[WABBIT]

No just the sisters of the thorn. And the old wood elf shadow dancer spell is self only now so not very useful at all. 

EDIT: sorry i re-read your post and you mentioned "allies". Yeah lots of other allied potential but he needs 5 heroes for Waystone tax.

[WABBIT]

1 hour ago, Aezeal said:

You have to pay for what you summon. Sylvaneth can summon it for but only have to pay 0 points. Non sylvaneth have to pay 40. And since it was mentioned it has no order keyword you can only get it by summoning it.. which means you need the ability on the TLA (since he doesn't get sylvaneth spells either.

You're probably right but it has the scenery keyword so that tells me it goes down at the start of the game before picking sides and deployment. It's not very clear in my view, something GW could clear up in an FAQ perhaps?

[Tidings]

4 hours ago, Aezeal said:

You have to pay for what you summon. Sylvaneth can summon it for but only have to pay 0 points. Non sylvaneth have to pay 40. And since it was mentioned it has no order keyword you can only get it by summoning it.. which means you need the ability on the TLA (since he doesn't get sylvaneth spells either.

Normally yes, but the TLA has an ability that lets you place a forest. It's not a "summon" - summons are spells that place something in play. My local group conceded that the TLA's ability is actually not a summon and is fine technically, though it definitely seems like a loophole. I suspect there's probably an FAQ somewhere stating non-sylvaneth need to pay for it but we never found it. 

4 hours ago, Aezeal said:

Isn't there another mage in our allies group which is possibly more usefull... a different spell is always nice.

There's a couple High Elf mages and Sylvaneth Mages, but both work mostly off keywords for their respective faction. The Loremaster is an exception, except he isn't as valuable in our army because we don't have a single behemoth or monster now, and we can't afford to take him AND Durthu because Durthu is 400 points. So off the top of my head, I don't know of any clear winners.

[Aezeal]

1 hour ago, Tidings said:

Normally yes, but the TLA has an ability that lets you place a forest. It's not a "summon" - summons are spells that place something in play. My local group conceded that the TLA's ability is actually not a summon and is fine technically, though it definitely seems like a loophole. I suspect there's probably an FAQ somewhere stating non-sylvaneth need to pay for it but we never found it. 

This seems like BS to me. Alarielle also has an ABILITY.. but if we let het summon half an army each turn I doubt we won't have to pay points... putting something  new on the table means paying the points.

[WABBIT]

20 minutes ago, Aezeal said:

This seems like BS to me. Alarielle also has an ABILITY.. but if we let het summon half an army each turn I doubt we won't have to pay points... putting something  new on the table means paying the points.

I know and she should be able to use it but she would be too cheap if they did allow it. No way am I wasting reinforcement points on something that might turn up. Summoning spells are a joke right now and abilities have been dragged into it as well. There is no reason for it and it can be fixed easily. Instead those who don't have access to summoning will quite rightly get upset about it because its not balanced well either way. Branch Wraith is never take unless it's for the battalion tax for example. I haven't use Alarielle as i'm not sure her points reflect her abilities properly. she is ok at 600 though.

The TLA ability to summon wyld woods is definitely free. Slyvaneth just don't work without it. Its clarified in the battle tome quite clearly and it's 0 points anyway for sylvaneth.

[Tidings]

1 hour ago, Aezeal said:

This seems like BS to me. Alarielle also has an ABILITY.. but if we let het summon half an army each turn I doubt we won't have to pay points... putting something  new on the table means paying the points.

Yeah and that ability is clearly not designed for matched play. No one sets points aside for a unit of dryads and hopes for a dice roll to get that unit, then only get 2d6 of the unit. Or pays for a treelord and spends all game hoping for a 6 on that ability. It's not the same as the TLA's tree ability at all lol. 

[Aezeal]

2 hours ago, Tidings said:

Yeah and that ability is clearly not designed for matched play. No one sets points aside for a unit of dryads and hopes for a dice roll to get that unit, then only get 2d6 of the unit. Or pays for a treelord and spends all game hoping for a 6 on that ability. It's not the same as the TLA's tree ability at all lol. 

Ruleswise it is exactly the same. As you say.. you have to pay for it.. and you also have to pay for forests you summon... 0 points for sylvaneth, 40 points for other armies with a TLA (general order or as ally).

[Aezeal]

3 hours ago, WABBIT said:

I know and she should be able to use it but she would be too cheap if they did allow it. No way am I wasting reinforcement points on something that might turn up. Summoning spells are a joke right now and abilities have been dragged into it as well. There is no reason for it and it can be fixed easily. Instead those who don't have access to summoning will quite rightly get upset about it because its not balanced well either way. Branch Wraith is never take unless it's for the battalion tax for example. I haven't use Alarielle as i'm not sure her points reflect her abilities properly. she is ok at 600 though.

The TLA ability to summon wyld woods is definitely free. Slyvaneth just don't work without it. Its clarified in the battle tome quite clearly and it's 0 points anyway for sylvaneth.

Yes for sylvaneth... but not for wanderers with a sylvaneth ally.

[Tidings]

In either case, I don't use it that way because I am 99% sure GW never intended for anyone other than Sylvaneth to get it for free. A little while ago I did it for a few games after my friends at the LHS said it was a legit loophole, but I don't think it's the case. The wording seems more clear now as well, specifying abilities too. 

[LeGinger]

I'm not really sure why this is an argument? If you ally a TLA, your army is still Wanderers and not Sylveneth. Says clearly in the pitched battle profiles that trees are only free for and army with Sylvaneth allegiance. And even though it's an ability and not summoning, you still have to pay reinforcement points. It's the same thing for Flesh water abilities that set up new units automatically, gotta pay for them. 

 

Side note, played my first game with Wanderers last night and had a blast! Waywatchers are awesome!

[Origin]

@LeGinger waywachers are awesome. Seriously considering running one as my general, turn him into a 32" sniper. 

It is a shame they just outshine waystriders and wayfinders. I can find no use for either hero 

[Aezeal]

1 hour ago, Origin said:

@LeGinger waywachers are awesome. Seriously considering running one as my general, turn him into a 32" sniper. 

It is a shame they just outshine waystriders and wayfinders. I can find no use for either hero 

They should get a non command ability buff. maybe not an AoE thing but just a +1 hit on a single unit.. or *dreaming* + 1 to wound.... or even RR 1 to wound on a single unit. Just price them accordingly - comparing to say a bloodsecrator with AoE +1 attack I'd say 120 points for the one with the HoDA and 100 for the other. Or the strider +1 attack on 1 unit (I can see buffing shooting needs to be done with care so maybe just a melee buff would be nice). Heck even a save buff would be nice and not really abusable since our save is terrible even at +1 save for a unit. Or a +6 inch range on a single units shooting (it's strong but doesn't directly increase damage). Or something that does something with the teleport ability (allowing set up at 6" instead of 9?).  I can think up lots of stuff.. but 4 hero's with as support ability only command abilities which are 1/game is silly... then they could've better moved the somewhat usefull ability fromt the waywatcher to one of the others (I know not fluffy but still) since he's the best of the lot leaving that out of the picture and basicly the only one people use outside of being a general.

[WABBIT]

5 hours ago, LeGinger said:

I'm not really sure why this is an argument? If you ally a TLA, your army is still Wanderers and not Sylveneth. Says clearly in the pitched battle profiles that trees are only free for and army with Sylvaneth allegiance. And even though it's an ability and not summoning, you still have to pay reinforcement points. It's the same thing for Flesh water abilities that set up new units automatically, gotta pay for them. 

 

Side note, played my first game with Wanderers last night and had a blast! Waywatchers are awesome!

I believe we are having  a discussion not an argument . Aezeal corrected me and I agreed with him. Ive never used it as a scenery deployment drop for any army (apart from sylvaneth) before so I just assumed it was terrain you can buy and deploy. Note it doesn't say you have to have a TLA to deploy it or a spell so it's easy to see how you might assume it's just scenery and stick it down before choosing sides. What led me to think it was deployed as terrain drop before battle was the fact sylvaneth get a wyld wood to deploy before deploying armies but after choosing side so I just assumed the same mechanic for non sylvaneth armies but it costs them 40pts. It's not really clear if this is right or wrong to be honest. The wyld wood warscroll doesn't say we cannot deploy it without a spell or TLA ability for example. 

Anyway I stopped playing aelf armies and moved to sylvaneth when I realised all wood and high aelf armies had been nerfed to be uncompetitive and after GHB2017 I still think they are too weak but I want to give them another go. We even lost lots of war scrolls to compendium blitz. I hope we don/t have to wait too long for an aelf battle tome. Seeing how different the new dwarves factions are I am a little nervous about where GW are going to take Aelves. 

[Tidings]

Waywatchers are incredible! How do you get 32" though? I know you can get to 30 with the command trait, but that's the only thing I'm aware of. 

I still take Nomad Prince though. I just feel like his command ability is too important to pass up on - it really contributes a lot when you have a ton of archers. 

Yeah the removal of Wanderer keywords right as we got rules is so dumb. Lost a lot of unit options and synergies. 

[Deathrain]

3 hours ago, Tidings said:

Waywatchers are incredible! How do you get 32" though? I know you can get to 30 with the command trait, but that's the only thing I'm aware of.

His base range is 22", and the Eagle-eyed command trait adds 10"

[Tidings]

Oh wow, I didn't realize they increased his range by 2". If it was always that way then I read it as 20" and never looked again lol. 

[Aezeal]

30 minutes ago, Tidings said:

Oh wow, I didn't realize they increased his range by 2". If it was always that way then I read it as 20" and never looked again lol. 

It's been 22 " for a while now, probably since aos started but not sure.

[Aezeal]

16 hours ago, WABBIT said:

I believe we are having  a discussion not an argument . Aezeal corrected me and I agreed with him. Ive never used it as a scenery deployment drop for any army (apart from sylvaneth) before so I just assumed it was terrain you can buy and deploy. Note it doesn't say you have to have a TLA to deploy it or a spell so it's easy to see how you might assume it's just scenery and stick it down before choosing sides. What led me to think it was deployed as terrain drop before battle was the fact sylvaneth get a wyld wood to deploy before deploying armies but after choosing side so I just assumed the same mechanic for non sylvaneth armies but it costs them 40pts. It's not really clear if this is right or wrong to be honest. The wyld wood warscroll doesn't say we cannot deploy it without a spell or TLA ability for example. 

Anyway I stopped playing aelf armies and moved to sylvaneth when I realised all wood and high aelf armies had been nerfed to be uncompetitive and after GHB2017 I still think they are too weak but I want to give them another go. We even lost lots of war scrolls to compendium blitz. I hope we don/t have to wait too long for an aelf battle tome. Seeing how different the new dwarves factions are I am a little nervous about where GW are going to take Aelves. 

I know you already said I was right. But just in case you still had some doubts the FAQ about the GHB2017 now states it clearly. If your shop still lets you use them that way power to you of course (but dangerous.... they can hurt bad). If we could get "normal" forests for 20 points this way and a summon ability on all wanderer wizards (yeah.. on all fo them :S) I might use it.

[WABBIT]

Delet please double post.

[WABBIT]

 

2 hours ago, Aezeal said:

I know you already said I was right. But just in case you still had some doubts the FAQ about the GHB2017 now states it clearly. If your shop still lets you use them that way power to you of course (but dangerous.... they can hurt bad). If we could get "normal" forests for 20 points this way and a summon ability on all wanderer wizards (yeah.. on all fo them :S) I might use it.

lol  yeah I was just about to post the same thing so I was right to question it or it wouldn't need an FAQ.

FYI see below:

FAQs 

Q: Scenery models have a Pitched Battle pro le. Does this mean I can include them in my army if I pay the points for them?
A: No, the points are included for those instances when a spell or ability allows you to set up the scenery model, so that you will know how many reinforcement points it costs in a Pitched Battle. 

[WABBIT]

Nice work on fast FAQ by GW.

So now all GW need to do is;

• add 2 wounds to the glade lord on dragon so he matchs all the other dragons in AoS (most of whom are cheaper!!)
• drop wild riders to 120pts and give them -1 Rend on charge in addition to their +1 to wound on charge.
• give the  avatar of the hunt the ability to reroll nearby  wild riders charge  and give the riders 1 extra attack.
• Allow woodelves to ally with wanderers or just regain wanderers keyword.
• drop wild wood rangers to 140pts as they have less armour than other elites and a niche ability rarely used.
• give all wanderers and woodelves immunity from wyld wood roused to wrath attacks and dangerous terrain rules. At least give it to Wyld wood rangers!!!!!
• fix azyr so the correct wander command traits are listed. "Hunting hawk" is not a command trait. Myst walker is missing.
• fix azyr so that wanderers allies appear when selected. Currently nothing comes up....
• fix warscroll builder to show eternal guard as wanderer battle line.
• Drop glade guard to 100pts and give them massive regiments option at 240. Or just massive regiments option for 300pts at least.
• allow sisters of the watch to shoot twice even if they move and drop their points to 200. Give them massive regiments cost of 500.
• give us some new awesome warhawk/ eagle rider models.
• reduce kurnoth hunters to 200pts so we can get 2 units in a 2000pt game  pleaaaaassssseeee!
• give us a hug.

Don't wake me up this is a nice dream.

 

[WABBIT]

Ok attempt at a wanderer list. 2k.

my main complaint is ww rangers are too pricey for what they do so I'm looking at lion rangers instead who are much better value for their points. Same stats with one more armour save but only 1" range. On 25 mm bases 2 ranks can still attack so still worth it. 

Please  note warscroll builder still thinks eternal guard are not battleline so they are not listed properly.

2 spell weavers for mystic shield and topping up units - especially GG to keep them above 20 models. Some redundancy there too.

30 GG for alpha strike on high armour unit/hero/monster and some in depth support/threat.

sisters of the watch because I love the models. They are too pricey but there is nothing else to punch with. I assume retreating counts as moving? These girls could do well with melt away battle trait if it's not. Either way melt away helps them out a little. 

Eternal guard - 2 units for objective guarding and archer protection/screening.

White lions for main punch and supported by mystic shield if the eternal guard don't need it and shield of thorns from sisters of the thorn. Some javelin support from sisters too and melt away if they get caught and survive a round of combat to fire again. It's worth noting SotT have good save so with mystic shield and shield of thorns they can be a force to reckon with in a unit of 10. Its 25 attacks per 5 models per turn (3 combat, 2 shooting) for 220pts isn't bad with nomad rerolls. If only we could improve attacks, rend,  to hit or wound rolls somehow like other armies can.

All I all I think this has some combat punch and 30 lions means they are durable even against battleshock. 10 javelin attacks, 30 GG arrows and 40 flaming arrows is a good ranged threat. I didn't take waystone as it's too expensive and we move around the board edges without it now.

I'd consider dropping ranger lions for a frost Phoenix  with anointed and getting 20 ww rangers instead but I hate the idea of spending 180 on the weaker ww rangers when lion rangers are only 140.

Please chip in with your suggestions, questions, chastisements, corrections etc. I'm not limited by models; if they are aelf, seraphon or sylvaneth I have got it.  I'm curious to see if model count makes up for lack of monsters. Swapping all the sisters of the watch for glade guard or eternal guard would bring even more. Too many combat troops means they won't all be able to attack though.

Allegiance: Order

Leaders
Nomad Prince (80)
- General
- Trait: Myst Walker  
- Artefact: Viridescent Shawl  
Spellweaver (80)
Spellweaver (80)

Battleline

30 x Eternal Guard (210)
20 x Eternal Guard (160
30 x Glade Guard (360)

Units
5 x Sisters of the Thorn (220)
10 x Sisters of the Watch (220)
10 x Sisters of the Watch (220)
30 x White Lions (360)

Total: 1990/2000

[Aezeal]

It's clearly intended the fest dragon is the smaller cousin to the other dragons. Not to mention his breath ability is great (PS also has one jaw attack for d6 wounds less).

Also most other changes uou propose are c leary not balanced either. A massive regiment on GG would be nice though, most shooters don't seem to get one but if Spireguard get it why not gg? 

While rangers have a niche ability that ability is very good against their intended targets, it's not gw who should lower points but us who should use them correctly (only against monsters so sparingly).

[WABBIT]

Clearly not balanced? I disagree, ok some are a little steep but aim high and you may hit a good mark I think you need to analyse wanderer units more against similar troop types and points values.   For example compare wild riders to dragon blades and gore Gruntas. They are same points and wild riders in no way compare evenly. They used to synergise with Orion but they lost that.

My opponents rarely use monsters so Ww rangers are not optimal choice sadly. If they had a universal ability instead of niche one I could use them a lot more. I love the models. Also other elites of the Same price have abilities that are always useful and they have more armour. Executioners for example cause 2 mortal wounds on a 6 to hit. No wound roll needed. That's a lot of mortal wounds and always useful. Wanderers got the short stick. Monsters tend to move faster than rangers, have high armour saves and are able to avoid them very easily. Rangers are so weak they can be destroyed very easily by shooting or first attack by monsters. Opponents know they are dangerous, expensive and easy to kill so they are a quick win high priority unit to destroy. That basically means they never get to do their stuff and we just wasted a lot of points. Lion rangers are tougher, cheaper and all their abilities are always useful. Units with niche abilities should cost less not more.