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Good "killy" units for death


MightyOwl

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So I have got a good few games in with my growing death army and I am pleased with how they do.  However, while my army is pretty resilient it is not particularly good at actually killing things. It feels like my army is a collection of grinding tarpits.   What units do you use (and how do you use them) when you actually want to kill something quickly, not grind it down over the course of a whole game?

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Tarpits with teeth: skell war x40 with spears. Buff with proximity to hero for +1hit, make 3 attacks each. Also 9 crypt horrors, rerolling hits due to Gking. Throw on necromancer spell and GK or VL spell for added power.
Mabey not the BEST damage, but they do well for me against most foes as those units have a lot of wounds, regen, and high volume of attacks.

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If you need rend, it gets more tricky. Usualy have to use VLoZD with redfury. But he is a shooting magnet. If you could buff hit rolls on spirit host... They could do better vs units with good saves...

 

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15 minutes ago, Thanatos Ares said:

I find BloodKnights are pretty Killy as a unit. The Ridden Monsters are super Killy but have big "shoot me" targets on them....


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Sorry, what are the Ridden Monsters? 

@zachariah_d that is part of my army - building up to two units of 40 skeletons with spears.  Skeletons have been the most reliable unit for me and definitely found them good for causing a "death of a thousand cuts." still hoping for something that can more reliably kill important things  -  rend would definitely help with that.

Used spirit hosts for the first time recently. Did not roll great with them, but I think in my head I overestimated how many mortal wounds they can put out. still definitely like spirit hosts though (except for assembling them) and need to use them more.  Is there a way of getting buffs to hit rolls? that would make them far more dangerous

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Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon with Red Fury.

A pack of 4 Morghast Archai can bring the pain (12 attacks, -2 rend, 3 dmg), though you'll pay 480pts.

Blood Knights are my go-to, but the do get nerfed if your opponent ignores rend 1.

Mourguls have a load of attacks at -2 rend as well.

Neferata and Mannfred aren't too shabby in combat, though they are expensive.

If you dip into TK, there are a number of things that do serious damage - Necrosphinx and Necropolis Knights come to mind.

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For offensive output, I generally turn to Blood Knights or Necropolis Knights.

They have similar durability and recursion, and put out pretty similar damage, point for point, after the recent/upcoming GHII points hike on necroknights (under GHI points values, necroknights are our strongest unit bar none to an almost silly degree).

Blood knights put out extra hurt on the charge, making them the better of the two as a stand alone unit, while necroknights, as a skeleton/deathrattle unit, have access to a lot more buff options to increase their offensive & defensive abilities - necromancer, liche priest, tomb herald, wight kings, mummies, necrotect, settra -  which makes them stronger in lists built around skeleton synergy.  Plus, they can put out mortal wounds - not a lot, but just a few can make a difference when playing against enemies with access to strong, rend-ignoring armor saves.

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Morghasts are pretty brutal - the archai are 3+ 3+ rend -2 3 damage. Combined with Mannfred's command ability of re-rolling 1's to hit and wound they can be horrible.

They are not the most survivable though - the current shooting meta can be pretty brutal on them. And although they are expensive for what they are - their ability to fly shouldn't be underestimated - a tactical retreat when in combat can see them hold an objective fairly comfortably if they are still around in the late stages of the game.

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I don't play TK at all, and I've never seen them in person.

However here is a decent list of mostly-non TK options.

For Mortal Wounds:

  • Spirit Hosts are 6 attacks, MW on a 6+. These take forever to kill for most rend reliant enemies.
  • Coven Throne/Mortis Engine starts w/ 12 spirit attacks, MW on a 6.
  • Mortis Engine also gets to unleash the casket of souls for D3 mortal wounds.
  • Neferata/Mannfred/Arkhan Mortarchs get 6 spirit attacks for 6+ MW.
  • Arkhan has Curse of years spell, which is pretty RNG but can net realistically between 1 - 6 MW depending on your luck.
  • Mannfred's Wind of Death can do a few MW. It starts to add up.
  • Terrorgeist w/ or w/out rider, can do 6 MW. Maw = 3 attacks 4+/3+. Looking for 6+ on the wound roll.
  • Techincally the bravery based attacks. Although those have been awful from my experience. YMMV.
  • TK Necro Knights can produce MW. More reliable if buffed.
  • TK Sphinx's have methods of MW.

For Rend -2.

  • Morghast Archai are premiere. 3x 3+/3+ Rend-2 (3 damage) attacks per model. Unbuffed these average between 3 and 9 damage for me.
  • Mourngul has the same attack as the Archai, just more attacks. Typically between 6-8 depending on his damage. He's super fast and hyper defensive though. Heals as well. Probably Death's strongest stand-alone unit, without any clear counters. Too competitive for some games, keep that in mind.
  • Terrorgheist and Zombie Dragon both have the Maw attack which is rend -2. I usually get 1-2 wounds through and force opponent into making rend -2 saves.
  • The Mortarchs all start with 6x 4+/3+ Rend-2 )2 damage) on the Ebon Claw attacks from Dread Abyssal.
  • TK Sphinx's have multiple rend-2 or rend -3 attacks.

Rend -1

  • Most of the units are basically rend-1. Pick your favorite.
  • Morghast Harbinger are probably the fastest and can be summoned with a somewhat reliable charge. This is effectively a ranged attack, just has way more chances to fail summoning/charge/positioning/terrain/ actual attack rolls.
  • Blood Knights
  • Zombie Dragon and Terrorgheist again. W/ or W/out rider.
  • Mannfred & Neferata Mortarchs.
  • Crypt Flayers and Vargheists for squishy, fast units. Basically flying Ogres.
  • Grave Guard, if you're into that.
  • Hexwraiths don't hit hard, but they're fast and hard to kill. Mix of Rend -1 and Rend (-) attacks.

Rend (-)

  • 40 Skeletons are pretty reliable.
  • 40 Zombies aren't as good. But they're cheap and work for combining battleline and/or summons.
  • Crypt Horrors hit very hard and pretty reliable if you don't need rend.
  • Necromancer's signature spell really turns hordes into hammers.
  • Zombie Dogs are no hammer, but they're cheap for their speed.
  • Black Knights. Reliable?..No. But you will see them used a lot because they look cool and they fit the flavor. Would look for a buff for these in the future. Rend (-) because the horses do all the damage.
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15 hours ago, Bradifer said:

 

  • Crypt Horrors hit very hard and pretty reliable if you only need rend -1.
  •  

Crypt Horrors have 2 damage but no rend. Believe me I wish they did. Only flayers and the heroes/monsters have rend in FEC. It's one of their major drawbacks.

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1 hour ago, Oppenheimer said:

Crypt Horrors have 2 damage but no rend. Believe me I wish they did. Only flayers and the heroes/monsters have rend in FEC. It's one of their major drawbacks.

Moved the Crypt Horrors. Geeze no wonder FEC hates Sylvaneth so much. Infinite 2+ reroll 1 saves.

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Moved the Crypt Horrors. Geeze no wonder FEC hates Sylvaneth so much. Infinite 2+ reroll 1 saves.

Yea, good luck killing a oak armor treelord ancient with CH. 5+ to hit if that stomp goes off, no rend, vs 2+ reroll saves. It's sad really.


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19 hours ago, Bradifer said:
  • Spirit Hosts are 6 attacks, MW on a 6+. These take forever to kill for most rend reliant enemies.
  • Coven Throne/Mortis Engine starts w/ 12 spirit attacks, MW on a 6.
  • Mortis Engine also gets to unleash the casket of souls for D3 mortal wounds.
  • Neferata/Mannfred/Arkhan Mortarchs get 6 spirit attacks for 6+ MW.
  • Arkhan has Curse of years spell, which is pretty RNG but can net realistically between 1 - 6 MW depending on your luck.
  • Mannfred's Wind of Death can do a few MW. It starts to add up.
  • Terrorgeist w/ or w/out rider, can do 6 MW. Maw = 3 attacks 4+/3+. Looking for 6+ on the wound roll.
  • Techincally the bravery based attacks. Although those have been awful from my experience. YMMV.
  • TK Necro Knights can produce MW. More reliable if buffed.
  • TK Sphinx's have methods of MW.

On the subject of Spirit Host and Mortis Engine attacks - these go away in any instance where your opponent has a -1 hit debuff, where you can no longer trigger the mortal wounds. Having played a number Sylvaneth and Chaos armies that can do this, it really takes away their reliability. 

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32 minutes ago, David Griffin said:

On the subject of Spirit Host and Mortis Engine attacks - these go away in any instance where your opponent has a -1 hit debuff, where you can no longer trigger the mortal wounds. Having played a number Sylvaneth and Chaos armies that can do this, it really takes away their reliability. 

Yep.

The Mortal Wounds are really all they did if you remove that, they are just an un-rendable, cool-looking chaff.

Spirits would get truly scary if you could give them +1 to hit. Sadly I guess accuracy is an Order mechanic.

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Quote

anyone had luck playing Arkhan aggressively using Vanhels (and maybe even the command ability from a vampire lord/wightking)?

That's a timely question.

Yes - I certainly have done. I'm getting to it in a blog post I'm writing about Firestorm Fours. In short - Arkhan was a massive lad and a melee force to be reckoned with. However, that was somewhat dependent on the pack being used:

 

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Against armoured stuff (like the Treeman thing with the 2+ re-rollable), I use a Necrosphinx — high damage attacks with rend -3 goes through armour fast, it's also tough and fast moving.

For quantity of attacks, 40 skeletons with spears and buffs (I use a Tomb King and Liche Priest). So long as you get to strike first with them (before taking casualties), with suitable buffs, they will drag down most opponents, just not the most armoured ones.

I also have a Casket of Souls for dishing out mortal wounds at range, and I'll sometimes go with Arcane Bolt from the Liche Priest if I think mortal wounds at range will be more useful than his other options.

If I wasn't running Tomb Kings, I think I'd look at the Morghast Archai for high-rend, Mortis Engine for mortal wounds. Like the casket, the engine isn't good at focussing it's attacks, but it can dish out a lot of mortal wounds all over the place.

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1 hour ago, Nico said:

That's a timely question.

Yes - I certainly have done. I'm getting to it in a blog post I'm writing about Firestorm Fours. In short - Arkhan was a massive lad and a melee force to be reckoned with. However, that was somewhat dependent on the pack being used:

 

Thats great - I look forward to reading something about that! Im thinking of taking arkhan + vampie lord + necromancer as my heroes for a tournament.  I will also use the mortis engine to make sure Arkhan can get his spells off very reliably.  just not sure how cost effective that could be... (also wish i had enough points to squeeze count mannfred in)

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