Atomicaphex Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Hi, I am considering both Khorne Bloodbound and Ironjawz. Whatever I choose I will use the faction in two ways. As a "pure" faction in smaller games and as a core for their respective grand alliance with a sprinkle of other stuff. Aesthetically I like both factions/alliances equally well. I would love if somebody would help me out and compare the two options. /Atomicaphex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillagoreFaceslasha Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Your request is a bit of an excercise in futility. As it is KBB will be updated tomorrow so what we are going to tell you will soon be mostly wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomicaphex Posted March 31, 2017 Author Share Posted March 31, 2017 I disagree I think it is safe to assume that the essence of Khorne Bloodbound will remain the same or very similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Red or Green, you decide honestly. I will say that globally speaking Ironjawz have a better survivability rate where Khorne is known for their Bloodreaver and Bloodletter swarms as being one very common competative backbone. As a fan of Orcs and Warriors myself I picked Khorne because it's the evil human versus the bigger and more armoured ork. The difference on the battlefield for me so far is that one has massed attacks but dies in droves and the other is more strudy. Currently heavy armour isn't that much part of Khorne (which can change with Blades of Khorne obviously). Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Marius Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Its a tough choice as you can never lose with either army. Khorne cares not from where the blood flows, and Ironjaws will be glad to come back for annuvva go against a worthy enemy! Maybe it really does come down to red or green! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taketheskull Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Khorne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggesut Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Ironjawz wont work as just "core" for Destruction - They are one of the strongest Destruction armies apart from Beastclaw Raiders (and then you won't be able to use them as Core as you need BCR core for the most powerful setups either way). Ironjawz only really work well on their own because their comps bounce well off each other - You could possibly look at Bonesplitterz, but again it'd be a 50/50 mix to get the best overall performance If you just want to use them as Core for bigger games and just want things to die, i'd go KBB, as it'll give you way more versatility in terms of the lists you can build within Chaos, and you'll probably have a bad time trying to do the same with Ironjawz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Interestingly Khorne are extremely good against Ironjawz because the high mobility of Ironjawz doesn't help you ifthe worst possible plan is to charge into the Khorne Forces with double Bloodsecrators planted. Against other forces, the surprising mobility of Ironjawz can go a long way, although it's very Battleplan dependent. If you're opponent takes a solid bunker gunline list and has a Battleplan where they are allowed to bunker, then Ironjawz are in huge trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domus Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 I'm a pure Ironjaws player starting a very unconventional Khorne army. We'll see how it does and hopefully I can provide some insight into this topic soon based on real world results. I am making plans to turn my Destruction into a Generic Destruction allegiance with an IJ backbone but that's a ways down the road yet. (And another 100+ models later... lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fraser Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 2 hours ago, Nico said: Interestingly Khorne are extremely good against Ironjawz because the high mobility of Ironjawz doesn't help you ifthe worst possible plan is to charge into the Khorne Forces with double Bloodsecrators planted. Against other forces, the surprising mobility of Ironjawz can go a long way, although it's very Battleplan dependent. If you're opponent takes a solid bunker gunline list and has a Battleplan where they are allowed to bunker, then Ironjawz are in huge trouble. Agree on this, and actually it highlights the main difference in playstyle between the two. Ironjaws - Typically running the ironfist you have a few infantry units who're more than capable of traversing the board and getting charges off in turn 1, combine that with a load of buffs to hit rolls and you have some reasonably reliable damage output with rend 1 and a decent number of attacks. So quite mobile and good at attacking in their own turn (note warchanters buffs only the Orruk turn not until next hero phase). 2-3 wound models with a 4+ save across the board makes them quite survivable but they are vulnerable to being battleshocked off if they lose a few models. Bloodbound - You have a choice of a few different builds, primarily defined by whether you're restricting yourself to pure bloodbound (why) or Khorne. Pure bloodbound gives you the option of mass cheap bodies with no save (reavers) or good all rounders in Blood warriors with the amazing ability to still do something when they get killed in combat.. What makes bloodbound tick is the buffs again. This time it's all about volume of attacks & overloading opponents by dice and here's where I feel the big difference comes in I think bloodbound are a far better defensive army than offensive. You set the units up to force your opponent to charge into your bloodwarriors or stand off you and you buff them up to the max. When they're throwing out 4-5 attacks each when they fight and again when you kill them they can do a lot of damage even against opponents with good saves. The banners also give them the protection against battleshock so dying isn't really a significant downside! Mix the bloodbound with Khorne Daemons and you get a MW output through the bloodletters and now you have the ability to counter attack or to push aggressively at an opponent. So while both are more or less pure combat armies they play quite differently on the table in my opinion with Bloodbound being a great counterpunch army vs Ironjaws being best when getting aggressively across the board and choosing their fights. That said facing a shooting army bloodbound are far slower and will suffer more than ironjaws who innately have more wounds with decent saves and are far quicker to traverse the table. So bloodbound need to think of how to get to grips with a shooting army or will be in greater difficulty than an ironjaws army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomicaphex Posted March 31, 2017 Author Share Posted March 31, 2017 Thanks for the answers. It was pretty much what I needed. Access to big monster in the alliances are also of some importance to me. But with Maw-Kruschas and Arachnarok Spiders on one side and CL on Manticore and Chimera on the other, that part is well covered in both grand alliances. (I know Chaos has access to several monsters, but I just really like the Manticore and Chimera models). Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrexPushups Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 I can't tell you anything about bloodbound because the books is going to be released on April 8th so we don't really know anything for sure. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrexPushups Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 I disagree [emoji5] I think it is safe to assume that the essence of Khorne Bloodbound will remain the same or very similar. Sure but we have no idea if they get something important like an allegiance ability that lets them run and charge(just an example). That would completely change how they stack up vs iron jawz and their destruction move. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Good work @Dave Fraser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uprising Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Why not both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomicaphex Posted March 31, 2017 Author Share Posted March 31, 2017 15 minutes ago, Nico said: Good work @Dave Fraser. Agreed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomicaphex Posted March 31, 2017 Author Share Posted March 31, 2017 5 minutes ago, Uprising said: Why not both? Ohhh, that is a dangerous path. I have been gaming for 25+ years and that kind of thinking has given me a lot of trouble over the years I am planning (and buying) several factions already. I started with four sets of Spire of Dawn for the High Elves. They used to be my favorite faction back in 6th/7th edt. Not so much now. I am going to put them on hold and see what happens with the "light" elves. Other than that I have settled on Flesh-eater Courts and some kind of dark elves. I really hope the elves that are going to be released later this year is something i like. I would not mind a Seraphon treatment of the Dark Elves as I really like the model range. As a fourth project I am considering Chaos/Destructing ... hence this thread. ... I have a very patient wife... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Marius Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Pure Bloodbound also get Mighty Skullcrushers as battleline so you the option to run a heavy cav battering ram army too if you fancy. Get a Brass Stampede formation in there to ensure you do mortal wounds on the charge, and use Lord of War on your jugger lord general to buff one of your units, along with the usual bloodsecrator and maybe some wrathmongers to boost their attacks and you can dish out some pain. Ive found skullcrushers to be crazy resilient too. Only real downside is their big bases which can make manoeuvring hard, and a canny opponent will use terrain as a shield to minimise the number of juggers who can get into combat. Works nice as a combo with a 60 reaver Dark Feast at 2k! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dez Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Ironjawz iz BEST!!! Sorry, all the good arguments have been made I personally prefer Mean and Green. I think Ironjawz with some Bonesplitterz bows or Grot Warmachines for support would be really good. Ironjawz hit like a truck, but they (like Bloodbound) are fairly easy to chaff up/feed units to. Back them up with some Warplightning Cannons (KBB) or Doomdiver (Ironjawz) and you're doing great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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