Carnelian Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 I was wondering what people thought about the iconic Liberator unit on the gaming table. Now the the Extremis Chamber has been opened, Stormcast have a lot of great options that make the humble Liberator seem fairly low powered in comparison. Do people still think there is a role for Liberators in Stormcast armies (particularly tournament armies)? If so, what is the role they can fulfill that other units do not? Also, what are people's experiences of using them in-game? I.E. how are people equipping them and in what sort of numbers? Below is a pic of my Hallowed Knights Liberator to give this post a bit of flavour! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Taylor Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 2 minutes ago, Carnelian said: Do people still think there is a role for Liberators in Stormcast armies (particularly tournament armies)? If so, what is the role they can fulfill that other units do not? I'm going to give that horrible answer - depends At the moment it's really down to the future and what it brings. The General's Handbook is out soon, so we may see Liberators costed really cheaply so they become really popular. Alternatively, tournaments may change how scoring objectives are done which make Liberators useful, and also we may see another Stormcast release which bolsters how Liberators work. At the moment Liberators seem more of a tax for certain formations than anything, but they are cool models, so I don't expect to see them disappearing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 At the moment most of the battalions take at least 2 units of them anyway except the extremis of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zbrojny Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 To be honest, if you don't have a particular comp in mind, you cannot consider anything "low powered"... I mean, how many are you comparing to how many? Units that have unlimited size can only be compared in power if you assign some values to unit sizes. Many people consider this the greatest boon of AoS - there are no "weak" options at all. If you find your liberators lacking, try doubling the unit sizes :). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amysrevenge Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 34 minutes ago, Zbrojny said: Many people consider this the greatest boon of AoS - there are no "weak" options at all. If you find your liberators lacking, try doubling the unit sizes :). Bang on mate. 5 Liberators aren't a good matchup against 5 Retributors, but 750 Liberators would smash 'em to bits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnelian Posted May 11, 2016 Author Share Posted May 11, 2016 All true. But for those who do play with a points system like SCGT, I'm wondering what role they use Liberators to fulfill. Seems like mainly a Battalion tax at the moment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoneMonk Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 Besides the heroes and extremis, Liberators are the most durable unit on the table with their rerolling 1's. Castellant boosting saves and set in terrain they're impossible to move. Liberators are great at taking charges and then letting the paladins mop up. My Liberators have also done really well holding up and even kiling enemy hero models when the hero doesn't have backup. Because they don't have that many attacks and Liberators get a boost against 5+ wound models. I've had Paladins wipe through armies, when they get all the charges and first turns, but I've had them wiped off the board super fast too if the opponent gets the charges. So if you can't get the charges or no using vexillor, Liberators are a great anvil. Each unit has it's own use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Alec Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 Part of the problem is that liberators come on 40mm. That's not a lot of models per MM. Other tanky units either have far more wounds, or a much better save for the same footprint. So as far as tanks go, they fall a bit behind. Not being great in melee also hurts them. In a sense. It puts them in an ugly position where you're always dissapointed they didn't hit harder. Instead of being glad they did a couple of wounds, you get annoyed that they didn't do more. Liberators are almost remarkably unremarkable. I love them for casual games. Yet they fall short of the mark. Being surrounded by units that excel at tasks leave their jack-of-all-trades abilities feeling distinctly mediocre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnelian Posted May 11, 2016 Author Share Posted May 11, 2016 Maybe part of the problem is that I believe in SCGT comp, they took the Liberators as the Base against which to measure all other units (I could be wrong but I'm sure I heard it on Heelanhammer somehwere). That would explain why they are so throughly average. I can see some use for them tho now I think about it a bit - as board control and objective grabbing wounds because Stormcast are so elite they are very vulnerable to lots of mortal wounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Units of 5 Liberators are a good option for sitting on objectives in your deployment zone - tough enough to not die to minor shooting. With a Greatblade, they can do some damage back as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Taylor Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 16 hours ago, amysrevenge said: Bang on mate. 5 Liberators aren't a good matchup against 5 Retributors, but 750 Liberators would smash 'em to bits. I want to do a Stormcast Army like this now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Liberators have their place. They are needed for 90% of the formations. They are great for taking objectives and holding up units. Use them as a shield against charging units. In Grymns Brotherhood they become 2+ save with reroll 1s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucifer Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 How many do you run in a unit? I like the look of 10 with a special weapon... It just looks 'right' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 I would say that greatly depends on comps being used and with points coming soon a lot will change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Alec Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 4 hours ago, Malakithe said: Liberators have their place. They are needed for 90% of the formations. They are great for taking objectives and holding up units. Use them as a shield against charging units. In Grymns Brotherhood they become 2+ save with reroll 1s Are they great at tanking though? 4+ rerolling 1's is good, but it won't stop a dedicated killer unit. And as I mentioned, they don't have the number of wounds or save bonuses to tank heavy hitters. I wouldn't consider them more than good at tanking, and a castellent is almost mandatory for the role. Them being needed for formations is usually considered a tax. Most players would have any other unit than them. More judicators usually. Honestly though, this is based around the tournament style skydropping army. A Stormcast army built around an entirely different principle could do very well. Like Grymn's formation backed by crossbow judicators and protectors. I'd love to see that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 It's an option for it. You need 2 units of Liberators but then you can choose 2 more units from Liberators, Judicators, or the paladins. But for a basic unit compared to other armies non-elite units they are one of the best units for their role of meat shield. What other basic infantry has 2 wounds, 4+, reroll 1s saves? Would I give them a grand weapon? He'll no, not their job. But a solid unit of 10 will hold its ground against most stuff...just not mortal wounds of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wilson Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 In a mono Stormcast force they have a place, but in an Order Grand Alliance there are possibly dozens of better units with abilities more suited to a particular tactic that you might have in mind, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warhammernerd Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 [edit: think this applies more to mono lists, not just Stormcasts but all mono factions.] [edit: it would seem that the generals compendium and leaked elements of matched play might be indicative of GW keeping an eye on the ball with this regard. Causal play is a separate matter, but I'd hazard a guess that club and tournie play will always inevitably push players to opt for beatstick elite armies over more realistic (I know it la fantasy but it is supposed to at least have some resemblance to armies and skirmish based warfare) forces with smatterings of elite.] They are your core. Of course there is always a point for them. Irrespective of wether we now have an enforced core or not, surely common sense, fluff and the need for all round solid infantry means they and other armies should embrace core supported by elite and specialised. After all what's an undead army without skeletons or zombies, chaos without warriors of chaos, aelfs without humble archers or spearman? Teeny tiny mega elite vs other Teeny mint mega elite battles? Is it feasible that Nagash the Lord of all undeath would go to war with a small skirmish of elite, would the Glotkin not more likely be found at the head of a mighty burgle throng? Or does convienience, win at all costs or even money hammer win over? Hmmm. I'm not saying we need serried rank upon rank of units, after all that was 8th the game and world that was. But this question is no doubt on many players lips, and without any prescriptive reward for fielding the humble core is there not a danger that they get relegated in favour of the ultra powerful cherry picked elite? It seems that now more than ever, the onus is on the community to moderate play. My names Adam, I'm a rantaholic. Pls take this with a bucket of salt, and knowledge that I love this game and everyone that plays it. Not bashing hobby, not telling people what sort of fun they should be having. Just kicking the hornets nest. In short, yeah Liberators rule. A?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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