Requizen Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 1 hour ago, Sleboda said: Stop having any sort of prizes other than a modest trophy and 95% of the power gaming goes away. The moment there is something of value to be won, out goes the civility. I think you're wrong on two fronts here. First, even among the "power game" lists, the players were still awesome and all scored quite well in sportsmanship. They were also all rather gorgeously painted with good boards other than a few. There wasn't the level of 40k "slap a few layers on, call it a day, and be a ****** to your opponents" that I've seen from those tournaments, and I didn't see judges get called for rules debates more than maybe like twice. There was no WAAC atmosphere, just honed lists because people like bringing the top level of competition. Still extremely civil and honestly just fun. Secondly, as long as there is a first place to be had, regardless of the quality of trophy, people are going to try for it. Plenty of people get into wargaming because it scratches their competitive itch. You can still have a good, fun game while bringing the strongest and best units available to you. A powerful list doesn't automatically equal an unfun event. 1 minute ago, Lord Aquillor said: I am only slightly bitter. I just got into the game recently and live within a few hours drive of Adepticon. I was debating on going but ultimately didn't pull the trigger because I was under the impression that the Raptors wouldn't be legal due to their release date being after the Feb 23rd deadline. That is all I had painted up to go in time so I decided to not go. Then I saw them on the livestream and was a bit annoyed to be honest. To be fair maybe I misunderstood and could have emailed. But from their wording it appeared that "rules AND units" not released by the 23rd were not allowed. If the rules being released on the 18th but the models not coming out for another couple weeks makes them legal this is something else entirely and should be clearly reflected in future rules packs. Again, not upset, my fault lies in not emailing them. Just looking to provide feedback to the TO for future clarity that may prevent someone from attending or not. What do you all think? I brought Longstrikes and was in the same situation as you. I just emailed the TO beforehand and he said that it was ok because the rules were out. They could have clarified it better, though, probably should have just put it in the rules pack. Email feedback and let them know for next year, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Aquillor Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 7 minutes ago, Requizen said: I think you're wrong on two fronts here. First, even among the "power game" lists, the players were still awesome and all scored quite well in sportsmanship. They were also all rather gorgeously painted with good boards other than a few. There wasn't the level of 40k "slap a few layers on, call it a day, and be a ****** to your opponents" that I've seen from those tournaments, and I didn't see judges get called for rules debates more than maybe like twice. There was no WAAC atmosphere, just honed lists because people like bringing the top level of competition. Still extremely civil and honestly just fun. Secondly, as long as there is a first place to be had, regardless of the quality of trophy, people are going to try for it. Plenty of people get into wargaming because it scratches their competitive itch. You can still have a good, fun game while bringing the strongest and best units available to you. A powerful list doesn't automatically equal an unfun event. I brought Longstrikes and was in the same situation as you. I just emailed the TO beforehand and he said that it was ok because the rules were out. They could have clarified it better, though, probably should have just put it in the rules pack. Email feedback and let them know for next year, imo. Agreed. Never been to anything like this before so I should have just emailed. Oh well. How did they perform for you? What size unit did you use them in and did you use Aetherwings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requizen Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 6 minutes ago, Lord Aquillor said: Agreed. Never been to anything like this before so I should have just emailed. Oh well. How did they perform for you? What size unit did you use them in and did you use Aetherwings? Brought 3, no Aetherwings. Just wanted some fire support, and they performed admirably. Capable of starting on the board or in Scions, they're basically guaranteed to put out at least 2 wounds per turn they're in range, if not more against softer targets. Considering running more in the future for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thain Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Hmm... I'd have to see the exact wording of the tournament's rules, but are you certain it said "rules and models" and not "rules or models"? Because there is a huge difference between the two... (Also, I hope you didn't misinterpret my use of "bitter" as offensive. I assure you I meant it in only a semi-serious way.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleboda Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 @Requizen I hear ya, and you're right that it is a competition and we should expect tough games. I'm just saying that after having attended and judged tournaments for decades, including as GW employee for several old school GTs, that incentivizing victory more than simply wanting to win already does often results in people going harder than they normally might. Adepticon has a well-earned rep as a prize-heavy event. Yes, the players may tick the sportsmanship boxes, but their lists are influenced by cash equivalents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requizen Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 40 minutes ago, Sleboda said: @Requizen I hear ya, and you're right that it is a competition and we should expect tough games. I'm just saying that after having attended and judged tournaments for decades, including as GW employee for several old school GTs, that incentivizing victory more than simply wanting to win already does often results in people going harder than they normally might. Adepticon has a well-earned rep as a prize-heavy event. Yes, the players may tick the sportsmanship boxes, but their lists are influenced by cash equivalents. Well, I think it's alright since there were equivalent prizes for Best Sportsmanship and Best Painting, as well as a pseudo "Judge's Choice Player" that was about embodying the spirit of the event. If it was only a prize for placements, I would agree, but they rewarded every aspect of the hobby as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Griffin Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 23 hours ago, swarmofseals said: I have to admit, as much as I tell myself not to put much weight on single tournament results I'm really bummed at how poorly non-TK death did, especially given that the rumored death-aelves (who may not even be death aligned) didn't make an appearance. I placed 3rd Overall in the PM Vanguard with Soulblight Death and no TK and 5th Overall in the Single Championship with only one TK unit. There was also another completely non-TK Death army in the top 10. I played 11 games in 3 tournaments over the week with Death and found them plenty competitive throughout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swarmofseals Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 4 minutes ago, David Griffin said: I placed 3rd Overall in the PM Vanguard with Soulblight Death and no TK and 5th Overall in the Single Championship with only one TK unit. There was also another completely non-TK Death army in the top 10. I played 11 games in 3 tournaments over the week with Death and found them plenty competitive throughout. Good to hear! I hadn't seen the results of the PM Vanguard. Do you mind sharing your lists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Griffin Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 5 minutes ago, swarmofseals said: Good to hear! I hadn't seen the results of the PM Vanguard. Do you mind sharing your lists? Note that the bottom is comprised of units I could use 120 pts to summon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Cedric Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 I placed 3rd Overall in the PM Vanguard with Soulblight Death and no TK and 5th Overall in the Single Championship with only one TK unit. There was also another completely non-TK Death army in the top 10. I played 11 games in 3 tournaments over the week with Death and found them plenty competitive throughout.Congratulations! Nicely done. :-)I won best Death General in the AM Vanguard but placed 20 overall. It was my first Adepticon and first tourney, but I wanted to take a mix death list without any TK. Originally, I had a unit of TK archers. Glad I didnt take them.- Cedric (Robert Hensell)Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swarmofseals Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 17 minutes ago, David Griffin said: Note that the bottom is comprised of units I could use 120 pts to summon. Looks fun, good to see summoning getting some use too. How about the 2k event list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Griffin Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 18 minutes ago, swarmofseals said: Looks fun, good to see summoning getting some use too. How about the 2k event list? The zombies were my battleline, not the Blood Knights, just fyi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swarmofseals Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 17 minutes ago, David Griffin said: The zombies were my battleline, not the Blood Knights, just fyi. Interesting. I'm very curious on your thoughts about taking the Necrosphinx over, say, a Mourngul. Did you run into any of the super-competitive lists like husktusk/grots, sayl stormfiends, skyfire spam, settra/NKs? If so, how did you cope with that stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Griffin Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 50 minutes ago, swarmofseals said: Interesting. I'm very curious on your thoughts about taking the Necrosphinx over, say, a Mourngul. Did you run into any of the super-competitive lists like husktusk/grots, sayl stormfiends, skyfire spam, settra/NKs? If so, how did you cope with that stuff? I played 2 Sylvaneth (one Super Friends army and one standard Gnarlroot army), Blight Guard Nurgle, Ironjaws, and Mourngul/Neferata Death, so I didn't play some of those lists you mentioned. However, I have played my share of mixed Chaos at my club and fair pretty well due to the Death save and my speed. I don't think the Settra/snake match up would have been very good for me, and the mixed Destruction would have been challenging (but potentially winnable) depending on the scenario. Generally, I can win the movement game with my army and they pack a load of punch in the combat phase. They also have good saves across the board. It can run into trouble if my charges aren't effective though, or if I run into too many bodies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 The mourngul is best used in defensive lists while a Necrosphinx is more aggressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swarmofseals Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 29 minutes ago, PJetski said: The mourngul is best used in defensive lists while a Necrosphinx is more aggressive. I'm sure many people would conclude this looking at the profiles, but I'm not sure that it's actually correct. The Necrosphinx averages 6.67 rend 3, 1.33 rend 1 and either 1 rend 1 or .67 rend 2 wounds per combat phase (at full health), while the Mourngul deals an average of 8.52 rend 2 wounds per combat (at full health). The Necrosphinx is a little better, and gets an additional bonus from the decapitating strike rule when fighting a monster, but the difference is pretty small. Once you factor in the fact that the Mourngul will likely remain at full health more easily the offensive output is pretty darn close to a wash. The Necrosphinx has an easier time making charges, but it can also be forced to charge by the enemy (although in practice this may not be all that relevant, I don't have enough experience to really know). It seems to me that the offense is close enough that the Mourngul would be better most of the time once you factor in the defensive advantages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillagoreFaceslasha Posted March 28, 2017 Author Share Posted March 28, 2017 http://www.adepticon.org/?page_id=11298 Well, here are the results. By the way, how did they calculate this? I'm to used to Battlerecord (W 10pts D 5pts L 0pts) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mune Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 9 hours ago, wayniac said: Those lists seem absolutely disgusting, even for a tournament. So unlike LVO I think it was where all the winning lists were strong, but not pure BS. I see 3, maybe 4 lists in this thread. So how can you call them all "bs". Or did the lists get posted somewhere else and I didn't get it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReverendDangles Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 The results are up now on the Adepticon site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mune Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Results, but I still can't see the lists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thostos Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 On 3/27/2017 at 2:30 PM, KillagoreFaceslasha said: Okay, results are being posted, we've got some of 40k and warmahordes. Holly molly the 40k tournament: 15% of players didn't win a single match there, out of 200 Not completely sure if im reading the AoS Championship results correctly but it appears that only 2 players out of 104 lost all their games,and neither of them played both days,thats less than 2%. 40k and LOLbalance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Lyons Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 2 hours ago, swarmofseals said: I'm sure many people would conclude this looking at the profiles, but I'm not sure that it's actually correct. The Necrosphinx averages 6.67 rend 3, 1.33 rend 1 and either 1 rend 1 or .67 rend 2 wounds per combat phase (at full health), while the Mourngul deals an average of 8.52 rend 2 wounds per combat (at full health). The Necrosphinx is a little better, and gets an additional bonus from the decapitating strike rule when fighting a monster, but the difference is pretty small. Once you factor in the fact that the Mourngul will likely remain at full health more easily the offensive output is pretty darn close to a wash. The Necrosphinx has an easier time making charges, but it can also be forced to charge by the enemy (although in practice this may not be all that relevant, I don't have enough experience to really know). It seems to me that the offense is close enough that the Mourngul would be better most of the time once you factor in the defensive advantages. More than it being an issues of "aggressive" vs "defensive", these units ultimately shine doing different things. The Necrosphinx is made to hunt other big bads; the Mourngul is made as a utility piece to lock down infantry model blocks and be a static debuff. They are simply doing different things. 4 hours ago, David Griffin said: The zombies were my battleline, not the Blood Knights, just fyi. David, I think we would have had a fun game... ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veterannoob Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 They fixed the results on Adepticon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Lyons Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 13 minutes ago, Veterannoob said: They fixed the results on Adepticon. Weird, Olivier's sport's score took a massive jump up from what was posted initially, which means he bumped me out of the top 10 and maybe should have earned Best Chaos General. I heard some real frustrating things about him fast playing stuff, picking up dice before opponents could see them, moving stuff through other stuff that couldn't be moved and the like. It was my understanding that he had earned that score. His place doesn't make sense for his total :-/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veterannoob Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 2 minutes ago, Thomas Lyons said: Weird, Olivier's sport's score took a massive jump up from what was posted initially, which means he bumped me out of the top 10 and maybe should have earned Best Chaos General. I heard some real frustrating things about him fast playing stuff, picking up dice before opponents could see them, moving stuff through other stuff that couldn't be moved and the like. It was my understanding that he had earned that score :-/ Dunno man, that's a whole other side of the ballroom than me....except for game 3 table switching (table 2...wha??! ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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