Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Ben

The best combat, Non-Behemoth, Leader

Recommended Posts

Second the Lord Celestant on Dracoth, with the shield he's very durable, I also tend to run him with the Obsidian Blade for the extra rend.
Don't know if he's allowed but the Celestant Prime is a decent shout out for pure damage output alone, survivability not so much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is my new load out for Aldulous the Reforger, Lord-Celestant of the Celestial Vindicators

Lord-Celestant on Dracoth with Tempestos Hammer, Thundershield, Champion of the Realms, Strife-ender with Pack Hunter or Keen Clawed on the Dracoth.

5/3+/2+/-1/d3 with +1A against chaos and +d3A on the charge, then the Dracoth has his say too ?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A Bretonnian Lord on Pegasus ticks all the boxes for me. 16" flying move, 3+ save, and on the charge he dishes out 5 3+/3+ rend -1 damage D3+1 attacks.

Give him the damage or rend boosting order items and he packs a real punch with a great threat range.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Green Knight is also pretty beastly. Only five Wounds, but with his 3+ Save, 6+ Save-After-The-Save with his shield, immunity to Rend, and his Summoned From The Mists ability he's got hellacious staying power. The Dolorous Blade isn't quite as impressive as in editions of yore, but four attacks at 3+/3+/–1/2 isn't exactly weak.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Requizen said:

If we're not talking named, Ironjawz Megaboss

Sort of new player here. I want to like him but he is constantly underperforming for me. Maybe I am just using him the wrong way

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Saurus heroes have served me well. Epecially sun blood with the relic blade cut through stormcast like hot knife through butter. Oldblood on foot is bit lackluster though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thorgrim Grudgebearer - 220 pts

4 attacks (5 with his buff) at 3/3 with -2 rend and 3 damage.  4+ re rollable save.  Great command ability.

Plus his thronebearers attack too.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm with @thediceabide the ogre tyrant with great gutgouger. If you take battle brew and might is right trait, you are looking at 4+ to do double damage with only 1 swig. If you absolutely need something dead press the red button and take two swigs. Now your doing double on a 3+. With decent luck you can do 18 damage. 

 

Booya

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Thain and @Davariel, if you guys want to go Bretonnians, why not Louen Leoncoeur, the King himself? I think that he is only leader, not behemoth... His sword does 6 attacks 3+ to hit, 3+ to wound, -1 rend and D3 damage and Beaquis beak does D6 damage with 3+/3+ and a -2 rend...

For my Stormcasts, I do like the Lord Celestant on foot, and the Knight-Questor - he doesn't hit the hardest, and is weak vs. MWs; but if he goes against foes just able to dish out normal wounds he is super-tanks because of his shield.

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

King Louen Leoncoeur costs 400 Points, significantly more than the Green Knight (200 pts.) or the generic Bretonnian Lord (140 pts.). I know Ben asked us to consider these guys both with and without points, but I can't help but consider points efficiency. 

(Louen probably should have been made a Behemoth anyway. The Empire, er, "Freeguild" General on Griffon is a Behemoth.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/17/2017 at 2:34 PM, Heksagon said:

- Lord Veritant (not really popular opinion) - he's cheap, heavy hitting, he can unbind spells (any amount), and he can choose one prayer from the battletome. That's huge for 120 points.

They nerfed him down to one unbind.

I have a soft spot for Valten (Empire Compendium), probably because I have the model. M10, 4+ Sv, 5 Wounds but goes back to full when killed first time on a 2+. 3 Attacls 4+/3+/-2 and 3 Dmg. Gets +D3 attacks once per game. 120 points. The math is unkind to his 4+ to hit but he can be buffed and he's very unlikely to be wiped in one round of attacks/shots since overkill wouldn't carry over after he gets back up.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have to give a shout out to two awesome leaders that both come in at a bargain 140 points.

Mighty lord of Khorne & Lord of Khorne on a juggernaut.

They both have amazing command abilities and the amazingly useful Mortal Khorne keywords.

Each has a 3+ save and a decent amount of wounds 6 & 8.

The mighty lord can unbind spells and his axe makes him a threat to any single tough model.

The juggernaut lord can do mortal wounds and has a great method for turning his d3 wounds into a hard three that his command ability improves.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If we exclude traits and artefacts, the ogor tyrant is a beast at 160pts. You have to hope for a big name that suits the game you have but there's a 1in3 that you'll get it.

He has a juicy set of attacks in close combat, his pistol for range, a 4+ with 8 wounds and he's pretty nimble for a footslogger.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2017-03-18 at 10:13 PM, Thain said:

King Louen Leoncoeur costs 400 Points, significantly more than the Green Knight (200 pts.) or the generic Bretonnian Lord (140 pts.). I know Ben asked us to consider these guys both with and without points, but I can't help but consider points efficiency. 

(Louen probably should have been made a Behemoth anyway. The Empire, er, "Freeguild" General on Griffon is a Behemoth.)

I agree with you that Louen should have been made a Behemoth, I don't know why they didn't...

Re points efficiency, I ran the numbers out of curiousity. The detailed calculations are below, but the short summary seems to be that based on damage output and survivability (Wounds taking into account save) - so excluding any move and abilities impacting other units - Louen offers a better return on investment than both the Green Knight and the Bretonnian Lord, except in the case of the Lord attacking a Monster and having charged during that round.

  • Louen's general damage output per point ratio is 1.85 vs. 1.35 and 1.77 for the Green Knight and Bretonnian Lord, respectively;
  • Louen's max damage output per point ratio (when attacking a hero or monster) is 2.14. The BL has a ratio of 2.29 when facing monsters (not heroes); that ratio goes up to 3.00 when charging in the same turn
  • Taking into account Louen's healing ability (on average, 2 Wounds per turn; assuming 10 wounds for 5 turns), the King offers better Adjusted Wounds/Points ratio than both the GK and the BL; the same is true for Mortal Wounds.

Bretonnia_DO.png.0cad965c6d7fe5d12c0db9a5f1345cc6.png

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, for Bretonnian armies the Paladin seems to offer the best return on points invested (at least compared to the 3 models discussed above)

He dishes out almost as many wounds per turn as the Bretonnian Lord (2.37 vs. 2.47), but costing only 80 points vs. the 140. Of course he's a lot less mobile and doesn't have buffing abilities, but we are talking here strictly best combat hero...

PaladinV2.png.12470e163ad8de7744a0e6fccd06f468.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you accounting for the Green Knight's Summoned from the Mists Ability? 

HRH King Louen may heal d3 Wounds each Hero Phase, but that just means he takes longer to grind down than his base 10 Wounds and excellent Save would imply. Pile enough on him in one or two rounds and he's staying down.

The Green Knight, on the other hand, has a 50/50 shot of coming back every time he does go down (which isn't easy either).

(Plus, the Green Knight is one of the best Citadel Miniatures of all time.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are making very good points...

  • I am indeed not accounting for the GK's Summoned from the Mists ability.  As I understand it, bringing the GK back in matched play would cost another 200 points, so I saw the ability more as a movement ability (very similar to Scions of the Storm). 
  • Yes, the 10 extra Wounds for Louen remains a very rough calculation, it could be a lot less in real game.
  • Rule of Cool - I agree with the Green Knight. I do however really like Louen with his helm on, and recently paid a King's ransom to get him on ebay. I am impatiently waiting his arrival. I need to check if I can take Louen and put him the Order Griffon - it looks bigger and more impressive than Louen's mount - I think that it could make a nice conversion...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Imperial Battle-Chicken has a metric ton of Empire and Sigmar iconography on him... This may or may not be a concern for you, given the general "everyone is a Sigmar worshipper now" nature of AoS. But if you want to stay true to the Old World, you may need to get creative with a file.

The Empire Griffon is also a, well, griffon; Bequis was always a hippogryph. Again this may or may not be an issue for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would like to keep the "Bretonnian" look, so yes, this would entail more work than just putting Louen on top of the Griffon.

I am less bothered about swapping the hippogryph for the griffon. I would rather it be the former, but he's so small compared to the griffon, and the latter seems so much more majestic / imposing / worthy of a king...

I have done a quick guestimate of size comparison (roughly based on size of the rider)... I guess that's why Louen is not considered a behemoth!Louen2.jpg.3b32d14058e0e0ee722f36030371570e.jpg

 

 

 

Edited by Veillotron
typo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 If you're including everything they can bring into their own ability then the Doombull has to be pretty high up the list. He's in effect got 3 attacks, hitting and wounding on 2's, with rend of -2, 3 Damage which should in theory generate at least 1, if not 2 more attacks. He can fairly easilly put out 9+ damage by himself in a single phase. I like that, especially at lower points games.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Thain said:

Are you accounting for the Green Knight's Summoned from the Mists Ability? 

HRH King Louen may heal d3 Wounds each Hero Phase, but that just means he takes longer to grind down than his base 10 Wounds and excellent Save would imply. Pile enough on him in one or two rounds and he's staying down.

The Green Knight, on the other hand, has a 50/50 shot of coming back every time he does go down (which isn't easy either).

(Plus, the Green Knight is one of the best Citadel Miniatures of all time.)

On the other hand I've had the green knight never show up by rolling less than a 4 in every round. That means that his points are essentially useless. I think he'd have been better off as a summon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Grimwrath Berzerker, if you can make him go right and lucky with rolls/re-rolls from buffs can deal 36 damage in a turn (39-46?) with proper relic/trait. Most I got from him in one turn was 33 wounds, killing a vermin lord, and unit in his attack/immediate follow up/then death... :x

Plus, if you wedge him in right his hair save gets better per enemy unit with 3" so I've had him singing at 2+ Hair save in pockets vs. Ironjaws, Seraphon and Skaven/Nurgle :) 

Edited by Veterannoob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...