Behold the Kharadron Overlords!

[Ekrund Oath Splitters]

Well you get them to heal 1+d3 per endrinmaster. The ironclad can have the relic so 2+d3 per endrinmaster. Granted you need to roll a 4+ to get the ship and relic heals off first but still makes them tanking, and seeing how everyone should just be running endrinmasters and khemysts as there heroes you should have plenty of heals 

[KillagoreFaceslasha]

4 hours ago, Shorewood said:

5+ save on the frigate? Are you kidding me? The gunhauler was bad enough. This thing is going to get torn to shreds like wet tissue paper! Everything kills this thing easily, and its firepower.... what the hell GW? The ship has a pitiful firepower for its points cost, its going to die super fast and.... Jesus

its 280 pts thats 14% of your army (2k game).... for.... if we do the math the expected damage output at full health within 12" will be 3.87 wounds to a liberator squad. (this is not counting their re roll ones on saves). so not even 2 liberators. 14% of your army shooting at full power will kill 20pts of guys 1%. At that point the enemy has no reason to ever shoot the frigate, its threat to the enemy is negligible.  An expensive fragile unit that can't kill and is easily killed.... yeah thats what I'd call a workhorse of the army. 

I've been twirling my metal mustache waiting for these guys but now its starting to feel rusty.   I know I am being super salty but.... come on it seems to me that the arguments made for them is... well if you spend points on these airships it'll let your ranged infantry get one real good punch in before the enemy realizes they have more than one unit and murder you. 

Again being super salty... I... I am having a hard time seeing how they won't get steamrolled by everything. 

I think you're pointing them at the wrong direction.  Frigates can be fairly elevated thanks to being on those bases of them. That means they can get a clean line of sight against heroes. Combine that with the iron sky formation (1 more shot in turn 1 from every weapon) and Barak Mhornar's command trait (re-roll failed to hit rolls within 3'' of the commander) and you get a fairly reliable tool to snipe most heroes

[Nico]

The Grundstok Gunhaulers act as a bad version of a Tomb Herald to any nearby Skyvessels. I too was shocked to see the 5+ save on the Frigate. Good save and low wounds is my usual preference. Healing is not a reliable answer. 

[Ekrund Oath Splitters]

Stick them in cover and blast away? Apparently the frigate and hauler aren't behemoths! 

[Nico]

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Stick them in cover and blast away? Apparently the frigate and hauler aren't behemoths! 

You mean aren't monsters.

Which isn't surprising. Monsters don't get cover saves. Behemoths that aren't monsters do.

There's going to be a huge element of luck over whether there is terrain in the middle/in your deployment zone which can accommodate your airships.

[Ekrund Oath Splitters]

How about you stop complaining and start putting constructive input on the new dawi eh? Not everything should be about mortal wounds and unkillable units.. ? if they aren't for your liking why carry on bitching about them? We haven't even got the full rules yet so hold your aetheric horses.. 

Another note is, the hauler can potentially make a high damage attack turn into just 1 mortal wound on a 5+. Could save your ironclad from time to time. 

[tokek]

1 hour ago, Nico said:

I think you will need to take the ships as anyone taking big units of Thunderers should know that they are a dream target for the many alpha strike pew pew lists out there. If they take first turn, then they can readily shred 10+ Thunderers and suddenly the unit is in popping territory. I've done this with units of 30 Auric Hearthguard - I keep them underground as that's the one place they will not get popped. Once they do come up the enemy inevitably deletes them, so the big hope is the double turn.

I think this is largely the point of the ships but I do wonder if it is not just cheaper and more effective to get another unit of 10 Thunderers (or Skywardens or whatever your favourite glass cannon unit is). Of course if those Thunderers have short-range weapons they might need the mobility of the ship to be effective, which makes rather more sense than using a 280 model as an ablative shield for 200 points of models inside.

The ships certainly help if you want to take a single-drop list that might let you dictate the first turn - and protect your glass cannons on that first turn so you can play for the double turn later. If they survive that they add mobility to units that are otherwise pretty static and would struggle in the objectives game. I am not good enough at the game to work out in my head whether that adds up to a winning strategy or a bit of an expensive White Elephant.

I think it has been noted elsewhere in the thread but unlike most behemoths the Frigate does not have the Monster keyword so it can benefit from sitting in terrain if you can physically fit it there. I do feel that aids its durability relative to other things of equal points cost such as a Stegadon which has a native 4+ save but only 10 wounds and which does have the Monster keyword. Also things which have a bonus to kill Monsters seem to be more common than those with a bonus to kill War Machines.

 

[bottle]

13 minutes ago, Ekrund Oath Splitters said:

Another note is, the hauler can potentially make a high damage attack turn into just 1 mortal wound on a 5+. Could save your ironclad from time to time. 

Would that be how it works? I imagine if an attack is damage 3 you can roll 3 dice (one for each wound suffered). Not that you can roll one dice and negate all 3 wounds into a single Mortal Wound.

[Nico]

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Another note is, the hauler can potentially make a high damage attack turn into just 1 mortal wound on a 5+. Could save your ironclad from time to time.

It doesn't work like that. It's for each wound and mortal wound suffered, so this is after multiplying out the damage. 

It will be interesting to see if one of the Battalions can deploy an Ironclad somewhere in the hero phase - allowing you do immediately disembark and start shooting. I've heard hints of this. If it's in the movement phase, then it's far less useful as it's too late to disembark.

Otherwise Skywardens could be used as a fast cheapish screen vs melee opponents. The problem may be the gunline opponents.

[Ekrund Oath Splitters]

Surely you fail the save then the 5+ happens. If you fail the parent ship takes the full damage, if you pass the escort takes a mortal wound?

[Ekrund Oath Splitters]

I guess it does work that after a second read, but still an additional way to protect the big ships 

[Emicus]

Surely that's just a guideline lads.

[Nico]

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Surely that's just a guideline lads.

[Nico]

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Surely that's just a guideline lads.

If they had a rule which once per game deleted a single enemy rule - that would be awesome/fluffy.

[Nico]

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I guess it does work that after a second read, but still an additional way to protect the big ships 

This is still a strong rule. Subject to what the Battalions do, my instincts are to go for double Ironclad and 1 Gunhauler, which is 1100 points. Battleline takes that to 1460, which worryingly doesn't leave a lot of space for heroes or Thunderers/Skywardens/Endrinriggers.

So maybe you're back to one Ironclad and a single Gunhauler. I think the Battleline dudes might have to just sit on the ground in many games.

[Ekrund Oath Splitters]

So far the hauler is my favourite due to drill cannons . -3 flat 3 wounds is just too good. The cannon is OK but you could roll less than the 3 damage of the drill.. so doesn't appeal to me.

 

Ironclad I'll get as it looks ace and I ordered 2 frigates. One thing to say is the ironclad (if it can benefit from cover) can batten down the hatches and get a possible 3+ rerolling 1's

[DynamicCalories]

The Frigate seems a bit poor on paper, but it doesn't exist in a vacuum. It gets a 4 up heal every hero phase, and when you've moved it to your objective you can also hit 'All Hands to the Guns' which lets you re-roll 1s to attack. Couple that with one or two units of Endrinriggers (which can hitch a ride for free) then you can get a free heal per unit, per hero phase. Stick a Hauler next to it, and you can also transfer wounds. Nothing that's as simple as *plonk it down and win* but with an aether-khemist on board too, you can confer an extra attack to those Endrinriggers's rapid fire rivet guns too.

They've not been spoken about much but I think the Balloon squads are going to form a key part of forces. They are a little squishy but that might not matter so much when they charge in with those Aethermatic Saws. Trying to figure out in my head if they're best run in squads of 6 or so, as I'd like a Grapnel Launcher on the Endrinriggerfor their ability to grapel right into the face of monsters/back to my own frigates. I might have to invest in some magnetising kit though, because they have a lot of options. I also hope like Prosecutors they come in packs of 6.

Regardless of all this, they're a technical army and a lot is going to rest on the player being smart to work around the fragile nature of them. What I can at least feel vaguely confident in saying is that there doesn't seem to be any unit that isn't worth the enemy's time, they have a lot going on but the synergies aren't based on squishy heroes - they can snipe but they are harder to snipe back at, an interesting asymmetry going on there. 

Hopelessly optimistic here,  but I've never been good at math-hammer. I see plenty of opportunity.

[Skrekkugle]

Kind of weird that they as duardin are so fragile. Expected them to be a lot tougher, especially compared to possible future skyfaring skaven or grots (these might be 6+ saves then?). 

Still love the models and I'm gonna play them regardless as they seem to be a lot of fun. I'm sure there will be a lot of fun and decent lists for these as we gain experience with them.

[DynamicCalories]

1 minute ago, Skrekkugle said:

 possible future skyfaring skaven

Icarats flying too close to the Aether-sun

[Thomas Lyons]

3 hours ago, Still-young said:

Are the Frigates Behemoths?

The two larger ships are Behemoths.  The smaller ship is artillery.

2 hours ago, Nico said:

It will be interesting to see if one of the Battalions can deploy an Ironclad somewhere in the hero phase - allowing you do immediately disembark and start shooting. I've heard hints of this. If it's in the movement phase, then it's far less useful as it's too late to disembark.

Kind of.  There is a Command trait that allows you to redeploy a ship:

 

Regarding lists, I'm currently looking at something like this: 
 

• 440     Ironclad [Great Sky Cannon]
• 300     3 Khemists
• 240     6 Endrinriggers [ 5 Aethermatic Saws, 1 Grapnel Launcher]
• 200     10 Thunderers [10 Grundstock Mortars]
• 360     30 Ark. Company [9 Light Skyhooks]
• 120     10 Ark. Company [3 Light Skyhooks]
• 120     10 Ark. Company [3 Skypikes]

220 Points Remaining.  Either an Iron Sky Command Battalion (for the protection of the Khemists by the 30-man Ark Company) and something else with those remaining points or a Gun hauler. With the Battalion the force is 2 drops, without 3 -  4 drops.

The basic conceit of the force is based around the 3 Khemists super charging whatever they need adding 3 attacks per weapon to key weapons (assuming that this isn't clarified to not stack).  Options include:

• Endrinrigger's Aethermatic Saws [21 attacks @ 3+/2+/-2 rend/D3 Damage]
• Thunderer's Mortars [40 attacks, 36" range, @ 4+/3+/-/D3 Damage]
• Company's Skyhooks [36 attacks, 24" range, @ 4+/3+/-2 rend/D3 Damage]
• Company's Skypikes [15 attacks, @ 4+/4+/-1/D3]

I'll be from Barak-Thryng, so I'll have 1d3 units I reroll all 1's to hits and wounds against (obviously key enemy units).  Additionally, the Company's attacks will be +1 to hit against Heroes and Monsters.  This force also has an interesting utility of the Endrinrigger's Grapnel, which means they can disembark, move 12" fly, potentially Grapnel a terrain piece or unit for 24" more inches of movement (Thryng gets a free reroll 1/game that could be used to land that strategic grapnel) and then charge.  This can allow them to get to key objectives when needed or alpha strike key units.  Finally, they can stay hidden for free in the Ironclad until you need to delete whatever unit or grab said objective.  

This is what I'll likely be running initially.   

 

[Chikout]

I am very pleased that people are not immediately finding game breaking options. It is looking like a mid tier army which is what every new release should be. There is lot of potential for a player with skill to make very good use of this army. If the new ghb can increase the points on some of the obviously op stuff the overlords should find a good place in the mix. 

If you want a fairly balanced game you need to avoid the temptation of power creep and this seems to avoid that. 

[DynamicCalories]

@Thomas Lyons That sounds good man! The only issue is the cost it'd take to get that many of the specific weapon options, but I guess for veterans that's par for the course.

[April]

Just now, Chikout said:

I am very pleased that people are not immediately finding game breaking options. It is looking like a mid tier army which is what every new release should be. There is lot of potential for a player with skill to make very good use of this army. If the new ghb can increase the points on some of the obviously op stuff the overlords should find a good place in the mix. 

If you want a fairly balanced game you need to avoid the temptation of power creep and this seems to avoid that. 

My first Aos army i expect to loose a lot. I dun care.

[Nico]

Quote

Regarding lists, I'm currently looking at something like this: 
 

• 440     Ironclad [Great Sky Cannon]
• 300     3 Khemists
• 240     6 Endrinriggers [ 5 Aethermatic Saws, 1 Grapnel Launcher]
• 200     10 Thunderers [10 Grundstock Mortars]
• 360     30 Ark. Company [9 Light Skyhooks]
• 120     10 Ark. Company [3 Light Skyhooks]
• 120     10 Ark. Company [3 Skypikes]

220 Points Remaining.  Either an Iron Sky Command Battalion (for the protection of the Khemists by the 30-man Ark Company) and something else with those remaining points or a Gun hauler. With the Battalion the force is 2 drops, without 3 -  4 drops.

The basic conceit of the force is based around the 3 Khemists super charging whatever they need adding 3 attacks per weapon to key weapons (assuming that this isn't clarified to not stack).  Options include:

• Endrinrigger's Aethermatic Saws [21 attacks @ 3+/2+/-2 rend/D3 Damage]
• Thunderer's Mortars [40 attacks, 36" range, @ 4+/3+/-/D3 Damage]
• Company's Skyhooks [36 attacks, 24" range, @ 4+/3+/-2 rend/D3 Damage]
• Company's Skypikes [15 attacks, @ 4+/4+/-1/D3]

I'll be from Barak-Thryng, so I'll have 1d3 units I reroll all 1's to hits and wounds against (obviously key enemy units).  Additionally, the Company's attacks will be +1 to hit against Heroes and Monsters.  This force also has an interesting utility of the Endrinrigger's Grapnel, which means they can disembark, move 12" fly, potentially Grapnel a terrain piece or unit for 24" more inches of movement (Thryng gets a free reroll 1/game that could be used to land that strategic grapnel) and then charge.  This can allow them to get to key objectives when needed or alpha strike key units.  Finally, they can stay hidden for free in the Ironclad until you need to delete whatever unit or grab said objective.  

This is what I'll likely be running initially.   

Looks like a solid base. Are you tempted by the Battleshock immunity bubble of the Admiral? Otherwise that 30 Block looks set to pop.

What are you planning to put in the Ironclad? Presumably not the mortars as they have a long range? The Endinriggers don't take up space, so presumably the two 10s of the Arkanauts?

[DynamicCalories]

Actually re weapon choices: I guess the Endrinriggers will have an option for 1 light skyhook per every three in the box so you can probably easily convert those to Arkanaut skyhooks too.