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Line of sight, facing and changing facing.


Arkiham

Question

So, in order to shoot things or cast spells at things you need to be able to see them, 

But the faq says that facing doesn't matter,

so does line of sight just refer to blocking line of sight , or does it actually mean, actual line of sight from which way the model is looking.

So if I rear charge a wizard, can he cast his spells at me in his hero phase. 

Or a shooting unit shoot me if they don't turn their models.

 

If it does matter, then is it acceptable to just turn models to face when ever you want, or is it restricted to movement phase only.

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On 13/03/2017 at 4:00 AM, Sleboda said:

Well, then either less than 10% of the pop can read, or less than 10% of the pop cares about their opponent's right to expect the game to be played by the rules.  

Or maybe the majority are happy to play RAW if their opponent wants to, and respect thier right to want and expect to, but prefer base-to-base if their opponent is like-minded or just doesn't care, resulting in only about 10% of games involving one or both players expecting or wanting to play model-to-model.

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As the FAQ says, there is no facing and so line of sight is 360 degrees around a model (you can assume the warrior will be turning on the spot and looking around them etc). Line of sight is only blocked if there is physically something in the way like a piece of terrain or a large model.

As for turning models I've been wondering something similar regarding oval bases. For example if you have a cavalry model facing one way, then they want to move 'sideways', if you turn them on the spot around their centre then the front of the base is now further along than the side of the base was before.

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44 minutes ago, swiftmus said:

As the FAQ says, there is no facing and so line of sight is 360 degrees around a model (you can assume the warrior will be turning on the spot and looking around them etc). Line of sight is only blocked if there is physically something in the way like a piece of terrain or a large model.

As for turning models I've been wondering something similar regarding oval bases. For example if you have a cavalry model facing one way, then they want to move 'sideways', if you turn them on the spot around their centre then the front of the base is now further along than the side of the base was before.

Yep it's true line of sight so you're just checking if you can see the enemy model from your own model's pov (looking through them towards the target). As best as you can do that anyway hunching over and twisting your neck.

Turning wise, I don't see any issue, the base is where the model is so there's no advantage to turning (other than using the larger footprint to create a larger impassable area).

You don't measure from the centre or the 'leading edge' but the base as a whole and no part of the base can move further than the models move characteristic so you can't start sideways and finish lengthways to get an extra bit of reach for a move or charge.

It would mean you can spin your circular bases any which way you want any phase but oval bases are fixed and you can't rotate those suckers outside the movement phase or without 'spending' some movement.

That's how I see it anyway.

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Yeah ovals require actual moving of the footprint,  so require movement.

I jw about facing as of the sight thing if it meant literally or not as I expect having to worry about rear charges become more of a thing with stormcast able to turn up where they want, wondered if my wizards could still spell them if they failed the charge or something.

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50 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

Ah. I tend to look at questions as if they are about the official rules, not assume one particular house rule or another is in effect. 

This is totally sensible. It's just that base measurement is such a dominant house rule I felt the need to bring it up again ;)

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1 hour ago, Sleboda said:

Ah. I tend to look at questions as if they are about the official rules, not assume one particular house rule or another is in effect. 

You're going to have issues pop up pretty frequently. I would wager that less than 10% of the population of AoS use model to model measurement.

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It says there's no facing. That means there's no facing. What's the question, even? Sure you could try to go insanely literal based on them "seeing" one another and try to gauge how many degrees of sight a model has based on how deep and large it's helmet eye-holes are, but that way lies madness. If you can draw an unobstructed line from one part of one model to another, they can "see" each other.

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9 hours ago, Sleboda said:

Well, then either less than 10% of the pop can read, or less than 10% of the pop cares about their opponent's right to expect the game to be played by the rules.  

Looks like you're going to be disappointed since none of us give a ****** about your "right." Measuring from the models is so ridiculous that even the General's Handbook mentions base to base measuring as a common house rule. Also, EVERY major tournament uses measuring from bases (and every minor tournament I've heard of, as well).

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1 minute ago, arnoldrew said:

Looks like you're going to be disappointed since none of us give a ****** about your "right."

Wow.  We really have come fully back to 8th edition, where not breaking the rules makes you the bad guy whom others can treat poorly (with anonymity) on the internet.

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i only ever really considered " facing doesnt matter " for movement, so you dont have to rotate then move.

i haven't really had any rear charging happen or we typically just turn models when it comes to pile in, so it looks right, 

wizards are normally behind most things and same goes for shooting, never really came up. 

was only when i discussed the new stormcast units with a friend and the mention of charging my unprotected wizards an such after turning up on a board edge did we think of it, as shooting is fine, you move before you shoot so can rotate the models, but spells you don't, spells then movement. so we thought it might be a thing. 

 

apparently it isnt. so its fine 

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3 hours ago, BURF1 said:

You're going to have issues pop up pretty frequently. I would wager that less than 10% of the population of AoS use model to model measurement.

I've literally never even seen anyone play that way (measuring model to model). I've only heard about it online, lol.

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On 3/13/2017 at 0:00 AM, Sleboda said:

Well, then either less than 10% of the pop can read, or less than 10% of the pop cares about their opponent's right to expect the game to be played by the rules.  

You can feel free to play the game by whatever goofy measure you think will be the most fun for you and your small pool of opponents.  That's one of the great things about age of sigmar, you don't have to do things that make sense if you don't want to! I and many other people choose to use base to base measurement because the other way was only created as an attempt to not alienate fantasy players any further than they already had and doesn't really work outside of a garage or basement.

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9 hours ago, BURF1 said:

You're going to have issues pop up pretty frequently. I would wager that less than 10% of the population of AoS use model to model measurement.

Well, then either less than 10% of the pop can read, or less than 10% of the pop cares about their opponent's right to expect the game to be played by the rules.  

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As has been said already, facing is a non- thing. 

That said, you can't spin to face since that is movement.  If the spin brings part of your model closer, it changes ranges.  That's just one reason toy can't spin. The biggest is that it is movement, and unless your model is moving by a rule that governs movement, you can't move it. 

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30 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

As has been said already, facing is a non- thing. 

That said, you can't spin to face since that is movement.  If the spin brings part of your model closer, it changes ranges.  That's just one reason toy can't spin. The biggest is that it is movement, and unless your model is moving by a rule that governs movement, you can't move it. 

It is only movement if you play by measuríng from the model or your model is on a non-circular base.

I think the majority play with base measurement.

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