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Turragor

Stormcast V BCR Battle Report

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Jag tar rapport i engelska som jag bruka göra.

I've been drawing up some lists in preparation for Gothcon.

It had got to the point where I had umpteen variations and it was time to check my favourite candidate out. So I setup a match with Björn who I played at the last tournament in Dragonslair.

I tried not to think too much about the fact that I knew he ran pure Beastclaws. I didn't need to make a list to counter them and them alone, I'd meet plenty of lists in Göteborg. Still, it shouldn't suck against Beastclaws... Or I'd risk losing to every beastclaw list I met.

The Lists

Quote

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals

Leaders
Lord Aquilor (200)
- General
- Trait: Shielded by Faith - Stormcast Eternals
- Artefact: Strife Ender
- Gryph-Charger Trait: Wind Runner
Lord Relictor (80)
- Artefact: Armour of Destiny
- Prayer: Lightning Chariot
Lord Castellant (100)
- Prayer: Lightning Chariot

Battleline
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- 1x Shockbolt Bow
- Stormcast Eternals Battleline
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- 1x Shockbolt Bow
- Stormcast Eternals Battleline

Units
3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (80)
- 1x Stormsurge Trident
6 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (360)
5 x Paladin Protectors (200)
- 2x Starsoul Mace
10 x Paladin Retributors (440)
- 4x Starsoul Mace

Battalions
Hammerstrike Force (120)

Total: 2000/2000

I still couldn't help guess what number of behemoths and what type I'd face. I thought I'd either see 3 thundertusks and a stonehorn or maybe 2 and 2.

Unfortunately for me I was to face the dreaded Eurlbad!

Quote

Allegiance: Destruction

Leaders
Frostlord on Stonehorn (460)
Huskard on Stonehorn (380)

Battleline
2 x Mournfang Pack (200)
- Beastclaw Raiders Battleline
2 x Mournfang Pack (200)
- Beastclaw Raiders Battleline
Stonehorn Beastriders (360)
- Beastclaw Raiders Battleline
Thundertusk Beastriders (320)
- Beastclaw Raiders Battleline

Units

Battalions
Eurlbad (60)

Total: 1980/2000

The Scenario

We rolled for and got Take and Hold. Now this was really something that worked for and against us in different ways. I had the deployment shenanigans to attempt for a victory end of my turn 3 onwards but it would be hard to shift his models. My opponent had the staying power once on the objectives and also did not need to worry about any objectives (usually a BCR weakness) for the first two entire rounds but keeping anything in his army on an objective was a real waste.

Deployment

I won the roll for table edge and started deploying. My opponent had 3 drops so would be able to choose who went first regardless.

This phase is now extra super duper interesting for stormcast. If I deploy in the celestial realm for scions of the storm deployment as the game goes on, I risk things coming down too late or too soon. I also had the Aquilor to deploy in pursuit and the raptors to redeploy later.

I also had the two paladin units in the hammerstrike force and I had full control over when these came down (but less control over where - tied as they were to the Prosecutors).

I think in a normal game I'd always find a use for one or two surprise units each phase so I'd keep a few in the skies but would generally favour just deploying in pursuit and a few choice units in the celestial realm.

However, against BCR and THREE stonehorns, if I deployed traditionally I had to setup to survive and not throw away the first turn he would give me if I was too cautious (outside all missile threat ranges). His destruction allegiance Stonehorns basically had a super duper threat range (d6+2" + 12" + d6" + 2d6" rerollable). The average being around 25" without the 14" charge reroll bubble from the Frostlord.

I deployed the Castellant, Relictor and one unit of Judicators in the middle with the intention of lightning charioting them within range of the thundertusk to takea way the guaranteed 6 mws. I set the prosecutors on the right side thinking they'd race in and deploy their payload while the enemy was distracted.

58c31c376892b_2017-03-1011_19_36.jpg.c092628e6167fdd9b170ff5837f64e8a.jpg

Everything else was in the celestial realm or in pursuit.

Here's how my opponent setup:

58c31c26f05a9_2017-03-1011_19_31.jpg.f290c7fd16cd8155bdadf7b7b4537273.jpg

The Battle

My opponent gave me the first turn. I cast the lantern on the judicators and lightning charioted them to within max range of the thundertusk.

58c31c4f086b4_2017-03-1011_19_42.jpg.16c8bc0ead2c65c10f677bb1302d6eff.jpg

I rolled for scions of the storm (a big moment really) and only had to bring down 1 unit of liberators. It suited me as I didn't want to come down in force so early.

I deployed them in cover to the left to try to keep some of my opponent's units occupied. I moved my prosecutors toward the opponents center at max range for an average run and retributor deployment at around 5 inches (a safe charge) next turn.

In my shooting phase the Judicators (good prime rolls) managed to strip 3 wounds from the thundertusk. Down 1 tier exactly. Mission accomplished. It would be the last thing that went as planned.

My opponent took the wheel and rolled for hero phase movement...

58c31c6b7417d_2017-03-1011_28_55.jpg.33c24f74adf10d7551488a18d1cd47b3.jpg

I think my biggest challenge with destruction is their speed, even including stonehorns (whose innate speed is the real killer, well, in combination with their damage, oh and toughness...)

Then my opponent moved... (and isn't this just an impressive sight! I long to have a BCR army done up - a long term project of mine)

58c31c912a13d_2017-03-1011_33_23.jpg.e2a6070efadd8fbbf9159fa49dd79a3e.jpg

I had thought my heroes safe here but you can see his Frostlord decided to roll extra well for all dice movement bonuses :(

There were no failed charges.

58c31cc10ff4b_2017-03-1011_38_06.jpg.4ac0431fb0d1f4f1a7e0558e14e3b7fd.jpg

And mortal wounds from charge impacts a plenty.

The results of this combat phase were predictable enough!

58c31cd9c3f75_2017-03-1011_39_49.jpg.94eb43dda645966a5fd6766ba0be49be.jpg

I was left with the Relictor and the prosecutors still on the board and we rolled for the initiative. My opponent won. Again his speed meant my 4 models weren't really difficult to reach. He also began to think about the objectives again - my idea to distract him would have worked better with a much larger, tougher unit. I should also have perhaps forgotten about deploying my Castellant and relictor. Though that would mean I'd not have sniped 3 wounds off the thundertusk, but the thundertusk was the least of my worries in this battle!

58c31d078866c_2017-03-1011_48_36.jpg.e3fa79aef945ff8c2b21a5343a0003ab.jpg

58c31d1b9faa3_2017-03-1011_49_23.jpg.8b5c722a538a2ec153163cb3e935ae1b.jpg

Another predictable charge and combat phase! I had lost my prosecutors so everything was now due to come down 9" away, a real blow to my 15 paladins in the sky :( 

58c31d4bd3448_2017-03-1011_53_20.jpg.00006cce09a6bd9ccb3e63e5bd1a9b28.jpg

So now I was in a pickle but we were entering round 3 after my turn and my opponent had just had the double. So there was a chance I could get it next! I also had a lot of forces in the skies to carry out a cunning plan.

The only problem with it was it required that I get the double but if I did, there was a chance I would win a major.

Betting on the double is an awful tactic though. So I weighed the other options. Was there another way to come down and take care of his units and win a minor after? In the heat of battle I couldn't think of a solution that didn't involve a variant of what I already was thinking of. If my opponent got the initiative again, I knew I would lose anyway. The beasts were too big, tough and fast!

Depending on how many scions of the storm rolls I got I would do one of two things:

1. If I got lots of scions deployments I would come down in force near the thundertusk and 2 x stonehorns and take out the Thundertusk with shooting and wound one stonehorn. I'd then charge the wounded stonehorn with the protectors and the healthy stonehorn with the retributors (who I could choose to bring down instead of roll). The Frostlord would want to bop over to the table edge where the action was happening and I'd keep swapping edges with the Aquilor and raptors and grind him down.

2. If I got few scions deployments I would come down in force near the frostlord with the paladins. Any bonus units would assist. I'd draw some behemoths from the other side and try the table edge pong missile grind on them instead.

For both of these plans, I really needed to connect with 2 9" charges or win the double turn.

In my movement phase I rolled well and everything could come down from the skies. It was to be the first plan.

I deployed the paladins 9" from the thundertusk and stonehorns. The raptors and judicator unit came on to shoot. I brought my Aquilor on from pursuit so next turn he would be able to relocate the raptors.

58c31d7bad3fd_2017-03-1012_08_48.jpg.d848c51f813605a6368c466161da0964.jpg

As usual the dice were unkind. The judicators took 1 wound off the Thundertusk, the raptors took 4 more not enough to kill it. I failed both paladin unit charges. Now I definitely needed the double.

This was it, the initiative roll - the roll for the match basically.

I rolled a 6! And for my opponent... drumroll

58c31d613f547_2017-03-1012_06_57.jpg.8e18dd13535ea06b8f2cecc25b52792a.jpg

******! haha

The roll off after saw my opponent roll 5 to my 3. The rest as they say, was history.

The huskard on Stonehorn (I should say, 'the stonehorn alone') managed to kill 9 Retributors on the charge or something.

The Frostlord actually made it all the way back across the table again immediately and into combat to kill the last Retributor.

At the end of my opponents turn there was not much I could do so we called it.

Realistically I had nothing left to challenge him with.

Thoughts

  • I really like the idea of stormcast movement shenanigans but they don't gel so well with the current collection I have.
  • I think my list at the tournament will still include an aquilor and 6 longstrikes as I am sure it will win me some games.
  • 9" charges are also a pain so it's much better to threaten objectives.
  • I should also have taken some aetherwings and used them to disrupt stonehorn charges and the like (not that that would buy me much time). I'll probably take 3-6 to the tournament.
  • I'm not sold on Hammerstrike though I misused (or was unable to use) it majorly here. Perhaps 6 Prosecutors with Javelins is the bare minimum to make sure you get the paladins into combat.
  • Against another list like this (or the same) I might need something much more resilient. At the same time I don't think there IS anything resilient enough to stand up to 3 stonehorns on the charge (at the same time, if one unit takes all 3 for a turn they're not killing other things).
  • I've been toying with lists that are really, really mobile but I was faced with the reality of a list that is super mobile but also utterly tough and strong against the Eurlbad. If I go mobile, I don't have much punch.

Long story short - back to the list drawing board!

 

 

 

Edited by Turragor

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Awesome! Thanks for the report. felt good to get a victory after the crushing defeat I suffered in the tournament :P

Here are some of my takes from our battle:

- My biggest tip regarding your force is that, although I don't understand half of the new Stormcast rules, I don't think you used your angel dudes carefully enough. They're the Retribrutor lightning-rod, but I feel that they were kinda wasted just sitting alone on a flank. I just ran a single Mournfang unit to deal witht hem, because even if all the Retris came down, it would't be that big of a deal for me. I feel that the angels can be better used by being, say, protected by a bubblewrap or something. That way, you can use the auto-deepstriking Retris as an amazing countercharge.

- Speaking of bubblewraping, I think a more standard deployment can be useful against BCR. Yes, Stonehorns trample anything they get into contact with, but when the only thing they can touch is a 100 pt unit of Liberators, that might not be so bad. Bubblewraping is a big issue for me and it's why I've started to hand over the turn, so that I can hope for the double, charging both the bubblewrap and the "meat".

 

As for my own playing:

- I feel that I really took your bait and left the objectives unguarded. By my turn 3, every unit I had was just thrown around akwardly around the field, not really securing any of them. With a lost initative rolls and/or some lucky charges from you, you could very well have won that Major victory. It's something I need to look into.

 

 

Anyway, great read! Theese really help you prepare for the tournament :D

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1 hour ago, Chickenbits said:

- My biggest tip regarding your force is that, although I don't understand half of the new Stormcast rules, I don't think you used your angel dudes carefully enough. They're the Retribrutor lightning-rod, but I feel that they were kinda wasted just sitting alone on a flank. I just ran a single Mournfang unit to deal witht hem, because even if all the Retris came down, it would't be that big of a deal for me. I feel that the angels can be better used by being, say, protected by a bubblewrap or something. That way, you can use the auto-deepstriking Retris as an amazing countercharge.

I totally agree!

1 hour ago, Chickenbits said:

- Speaking of bubblewraping, I think a more standard deployment can be useful against BCR. Yes, Stonehorns trample anything they get into contact with, but when the only thing they can touch is a 100 pt unit of Liberators, that might not be so bad. Bubblewraping is a big issue for me and it's why I've started to hand over the turn, so that I can hope for the double, charging both the bubblewrap and the "meat".

Whilst this is tough with Stormcast, liberators are actually pretty good at this. I think I went wrong here on the list level against you but I was trying not to think 'man I'm facing BCR!' and more 'What do I want for a whole tourney'. Still, I do think wrapping would really help against any kind of alpha strike force I face (technically I made a part alpha strike list so I should have grasped that :P)

1 hour ago, Chickenbits said:

- I feel that I really took your bait and left the objectives unguarded. By my turn 3, every unit I had was just thrown around akwardly around the field, not really securing any of them. With a lost initative rolls and/or some lucky charges from you, you could very well have won that Major victory. It's something I need to look into.

Yeah I love how the bait worked totally as planned but I had no firm plan after the bait hahaha

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9 hours ago, Tokyo Nift said:

Cool battle report! Sounds like you faced a terrifying list but thanks for the great read :)

The best bit about facing Björn's Eurlbad was that it's pretty much the scariest list out there but with a clear head it's not an autolose (because while 3 stonehorns are probably going to smash everything, smashing isn't enough to lead to victory.

So I get that helpless "rabbit in the headlights" feeling out of the way and if I meet many behemoth BCR I'll be more level headed.

Ideally I'd love to meet all the scary lists so I can get a feel for them and avoid panic at the tourney but I just don't get enough free time to play to do so!

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Yeah that is the way! I played vs the Celestial Hurricanum + 12 Kurnoth Hunter list the other day, definitely also had the panic in the headlights feeling and forgot a bunch of my rules D:

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Scion is ******. Dont rely on it. Hammerstrike is overestimated. Longstrikes are overestimated. The only good thing of the new battletome: Lord Aquilor and Palladors, but you screwed it...:D

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Scion is ******. Dont rely on it. Hammerstrike is overestimated. Longstrikes are overestimated. The only good thing of the new battletome: Lord Aquilor and Palladors, but you screwed it...[emoji3]

Personally still not sold on Palladors. They don't hit that hard and can bite it just as easily as anything else. Too expensive to just be a mobile harasser.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

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I noticed that you have a prayer on your castellant, how ever he is not a priest, she he can not take a prayer, only a relictor or veritant, can take prays

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11 minutes ago, Connelj2 said:

I noticed that you have a prayer on your castellant, how ever he is not a priest, she he can not take a prayer, only a relictor or veritant, can take prays

Just a typo from warscroll builder.

1 hour ago, Louzi said:

Scion is ******. Dont rely on it. Hammerstrike is overestimated. Longstrikes are overestimated. The only good thing of the new battletome: Lord Aquilor and Palladors, but you screwed it...:D

I'm not sure I agree with you, too many quick judgements. But I think I agree most about Hammerstrike.

Everything has its place when used right. I just didnt use things right :)

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When is the next time you are planning to play at Dragons lair (if that's where you play)? I really would like to play your armies with my new 6 Nations list I am building. Especially the beastclaw list which I am somewhat expected to bring down with my list (otherwise it's back to the drawing board). And Turgor we have a game outstanding. ?

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8 minutes ago, Andreas said:

When is the next time you are planning to play at Dragons lair (if that's where you play)? I really would like to play your armies with my new 6 Nations list I am building. Especially the beastclaw list which I am somewhat expected to bring down with my list (otherwise it's back to the drawing board). And Turgor we have a game outstanding. ?

We do!

I kind of just hop onto games when someone asks and the time suits and I only usually get free days unexpectedly (like 48 hrs notice or something) with the sambo and toddler visit inlaws!

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On 2017-03-11 at 10:56 PM, Andreas said:

When is the next time you are planning to play at Dragons lair (if that's where you play)? I really would like to play your armies with my new 6 Nations list I am building. Especially the beastclaw list which I am somewhat expected to bring down with my list (otherwise it's back to the drawing board). And Turgor we have a game outstanding. ?

 

I'll take you on someday, still need more practise for Gothcon :) 

What scary army do you play that even makes the BCRs shake in fear haha?

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9 hours ago, Chickenbits said:

 

I'll take you on someday, still need more practise for Gothcon :) 

What scary army do you play that even makes the BCRs shake in fear haha?

Haha... you won't be scared when you see the army. ☺️ But I hope it's deceptively strong.

It's an horde army so the main tactic is to swarm enemy elite armies with bodies and score on objectives. We want this kind of army at the team tournament just to try to counter for example your army. 

It's a new army so maybe 25% is painted but if you are ok with that and want to play an army that I think could be a bad matchup for you then let's do it. What times and dates works best for you?

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2 hours ago, Andreas said:

Haha... you won't be scared when you see the army. ☺️ But I hope it's deceptively strong.

It's an horde army so the main tactic is to swarm enemy elite armies with bodies and score on objectives. We want this kind of army at the team tournament just to try to counter for example your army. 

It's a new army so maybe 25% is painted but if you are ok with that and want to play an army that I think could be a bad matchup for you then let's do it. What times and dates works best for you?

Monday and thursday next week would be great!

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Thanks for the cool report!

I use similar army list and I faced Stonehorns too. Fighting against Destruction is quite difficult, especially if you want to use Hammestrike. I ALWAYS set-up my Prosecutors using Scion, because killing them is way way too easy. Risk of Scion (3+) is far safer than being charged in first round :P or shot by Thundertusk... :P 

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On 11/03/2017 at 10:56 PM, Andreas said:

When is the next time you are planning to play at Dragons lair (if that's where you play)? I really would like to play your armies with my new 6 Nations list I am building. Especially the beastclaw list which I am somewhat expected to bring down with my list (otherwise it's back to the drawing board). And Turgor we have a game outstanding. ?

Jag fundera över helgen, kanske hitta tid att spela (inte säkert än).

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As someone with a BCR and SCE army, I really appreciated this! Great write-up and I love the pictures. 

Thoughts for SCE: Aetherwings for the win!  You are right that they wont last long, a single round for sure.  But the way I look at it, they are a 60pt buy for a free turn of no charges.  The formation that takes them, Judicators, Venator, ect may be something to look into.  It's quite good on paper.  How do I fight BCR?  (and yeah I play a lot of games at home with myself...) First, I would null deploy giving them no targets so their first turn feels wasted. Maybe setup the Longstrikes and Aetherwings but thats it.  No need to go to them at all, you want to hit them with everything you have first and then get away.  A large 6-12 man squad of longstrikes being hurricaned around by Lord Aquilor is solid at knocking down the Tusks at range.  Once softened, have the squad of 6 Prosecutors with Javelins fly in and strike the Paladins.  Im a huge fan of Celestial Vidicators taking 3 squads (2 Protector, 1 Decimator) for the perfect anti-monster, anti-horde mix.  Just keep feeding the Stonehorn a unit each turn to keep him happy but dont just run them at it.  Bubble wrap your units as the other guy said with chaff (aetherwings, Liberators).  You will win the war of attrition and should be able to out range him and out maneuver, you just have to ensure you get 3 damage on as many tusks as possible up front.

Target priority for me would go: 3 Dmg to each Thundertusk, Kill each Mournfang, Finish Thundertusks, Kill Frostlord.  Like Ben mentioned on Bad Dice, the Frostlord is an all in play.   Either you are going to throw everything you have at it, or dont bother at all. 

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